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unpronounceable
Apr 4, 2010

You mean we still have another game to go through?!


Fallen Rib

How much of a downgrade is the Thinkpad 1x1 wireless compared to the Intel Advanced N 6205? There's a T430 in the Lenovo outlet that has the latter, and I'm thinking about picking it up.

I would wait for Haswell, but given that my soft budget is around $625, buying new is probably out of the question. The one in question has the specs I want, save for the wireless, for less than $580. In addition, my friend who offered to let me ship it to him is leaving the states this month, so if I want to take advantage of the outlet, I have to act within the next week or so.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





About 50%. If you use Wi-Fi at all you might want to consider waiting for a better model to come along in a few days.

If you use the bn link in the op you can get a new t430 with advanced n for about $650

Moltke
May 13, 2009


I'm looking for a laptop in the $640-$800 range for word processing and general internet-ery that can also do a little light gaming (Civ 5 at the most graphically intense). Portability and long battery life are also important.

The T430 looks great but I'm worried that it's a little bit more laptop than I need. Ultrabooks just don't seem durable enough for how often I will be on the move with it. Any recommendations?

mewse
May 2, 2006




I'm struggling to find any good reviews of lenovo's Y410p. There are unboxing videos on youtube and gripes about drivers for windows 7 blah blah but no professional reviews from respected sites. Is it because they started taking orders before shipping review units or something? I'm confused

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Moltke posted:

I'm looking for a laptop in the $640-$800 range for word processing and general internet-ery that can also do a little light gaming (Civ 5 at the most graphically intense). Portability and long battery life are also important.

The T430 looks great but I'm worried that it's a little bit more laptop than I need. Ultrabooks just don't seem durable enough for how often I will be on the move with it. Any recommendations?

x230 strike your fancy?

Revol
Jul 31, 2003

EHCIARF EMERC...
EHCIARF EMERC...


Delta-Wye posted:

I spent a little time reading about the XPS12 and I'm laughing pretty hard about the hundreds of sites that put out a 'review' of the upcoming XPS 12 refresh June 4th and 5th. Yessir, these are certainly reputable review sites and not lovely pr-reposting blogs that all happened to get the same set of details at the same time. Yessir, I'm sure that 20% increase in battery life is not at all made up by Dell's marketing department and completely unverified by the people repeating it.

If the XPS 12 does drop the next few days, I will probably buy one over a thinkpad just for convenience. Should I expect the XPS 12 to have user replaceable RAM and HDs? I'm a big fan of saving money up front and DIYing those parts later.

It isn't a stretch to believe them on the battery life. It's all due to the Haswell chip, not anything that Dell is doing. And it looks like the official stat is going to be 8 3/4 hours, which is still a really nice improvement.

I don't see why the RAM and HDD wouldn't be user replaceable. I can double check at work tomorrow.

Moltke posted:

I'm looking for a laptop in the $640-$800 range for word processing and general internet-ery that can also do a little light gaming (Civ 5 at the most graphically intense). Portability and long battery life are also important.

The T430 looks great but I'm worried that it's a little bit more laptop than I need. Ultrabooks just don't seem durable enough for how often I will be on the move with it. Any recommendations?

I wouldn't think that Ultrabooks are inherently less durable. That is more reliant on build quality than anything else. Anyways, at that price you're looking at Intel 4000 graphics. Here's how Civilization 5 handles it.

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Revol posted:

It isn't a stretch to believe them on the battery life. It's all due to the Haswell chip, not anything that Dell is doing. And it looks like the official stat is going to be 8 3/4 hours, which is still a really nice improvement.

I don't see why the RAM and HDD wouldn't be user replaceable. I can double check at work tomorrow.


I wouldn't think that Ultrabooks are inherently less durable. That is more reliant on build quality than anything else. Anyways, at that price you're looking at Intel 4000 graphics. Here's how Civilization 5 handles it.

RAM appears to be soldered in current-gen XPS 12s. If they were TQFP I would be tempted to solder additional chips onto the mainboard, but if I'm looking at the right chips in crappy photos I found, they're BGA packaged. Fuckers.

SoggyGravy
Jul 14, 2008

MAXIMUM
OVERGOON


Loved reading the conversation going on here from this morning/afternoon. Does anyone know what the dell xps 15 laptops from about 2 years ago had for a screen? I am happy with mine and if it is similar to the blade than I'd have no reservations at that point. Must be a way to tell since I still have the laptop.

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


T440s will have FHD IPS screen option

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

Good now the only downside is that dogshit new clickpad and the even stupider keyboard layout.

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


My precious Pause/Break key!

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Cream_Filling posted:

Good now the only downside is that dogshit new clickpad and the even stupider keyboard layout.

There's no problem it's your own fault for not using the nipple.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

Duck and Cover posted:

There's no problem it's your own fault for not using the nipple.

I only use the nipple. But now the nipple has click buttons only, and they moved the trackpoint buttons farther away.

Duck and Cover
Apr 6, 2007


Cream_Filling posted:

I only use the nipple. But now the nipple has click buttons only, and they moved all the buttons farther away.



Well that does look unfortunate.

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


The clickpad trackpoint buttons are fine.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

shrughes posted:

The clickpad trackpoint buttons are fine.

And you base this on?

Srebrenica Surprise
Aug 23, 2008

"L-O-V-E's just another word I never learned to pronounce."


Wait, did the regular non-s line get phased out or is this an announcement for a separate system ahead of the regular T440 or what?

Scarecow
May 20, 2008

3200mhz RAM is literally the Devil. Literally.


Lipstick Apathy

So I'm back at Uni this semester and I want to bite the bullet and get a laptop, the main uses would be typing using solidworks 3D and probably LOL at the most graphics intensive, I'm in Australia if that helps, what would be a soild choice as I have no idea what would meet my needs

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

Герой Советского Союза




This isn't the Haswell refresh of the T430, right?

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

They specifically call it a T440s so there will probably be a regular T440. No idea what could be different about it though.

z06ck
Dec 22, 2010



Brut posted:

This isn't the Haswell refresh of the T430, right?

Since it says 4th gen (Haswell) then uh, yeah?

edit: oh, missed the s there.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

unpronounceable posted:

How much of a downgrade is the Thinkpad 1x1 wireless compared to the Intel Advanced N 6205? There's a T430 in the Lenovo outlet that has the latter, and I'm thinking about picking it up.
Kinda a late response here, but you can easily pick up a 6205 card off ebay for $30 or so, and installation takes about 10 minutes (the first time--after you've opened it up once you can do it in 5), so that it doesn't have it from the get-go should not weigh heavily on your decision. If you do opt for that route, just ensure you buy a card that very specifically says it's for Lenovo/ThinkPad use, as the laptop will only work with brand-specific firmware (just like Dell or anyone else).

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


Cream_Filling posted:

And you base this on?

I have a Thinkpad with clickpad trackpoint buttons.

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

Герой Советского Союза



Mu Zeta posted:

They specifically call it a T440s so there will probably be a regular T440. No idea what could be different about it though.

I'm seeing it says Ultrabook, so that means touch screen for 4th gen, so at least it's that. Current T430/530 are no Ultrabooks as far as I can tell.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!




ABOUT drat TIME

Just need to talk my employer into buying me one...

hotsauce
Jan 14, 2007



It's .1 lbs difference, but annoying none the less.

Glad Lenovo finally realized people want FHD panels...or maybe they are in the process of realizing. No champagne yet (looking at you X230).





Unrelated note, this is a waste of money, right?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-Aspire...=item3f26ebf5ae

unpronounceable
Apr 4, 2010

You mean we still have another game to go through?!


Fallen Rib

DrDork posted:

Kinda a late response here, but you can easily pick up a 6205 card off ebay for $30 or so, and installation takes about 10 minutes (the first time--after you've opened it up once you can do it in 5), so that it doesn't have it from the get-go should not weigh heavily on your decision. If you do opt for that route, just ensure you buy a card that very specifically says it's for Lenovo/ThinkPad use, as the laptop will only work with brand-specific firmware (just like Dell or anyone else).

Thanks for letting me know. It looks like I can get one shipped from China for about $20. All I need now is another T430 to show up with a 1600x900 screen for less than $600 so I can jump on it.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

shrughes posted:

I have a Thinkpad with clickpad trackpoint buttons.

If it's anything like the one on the helix or t431s, it's terrible and not at all suitable if you're going to use it for any reasonable amount of time. The 'buttons' take way too much pressure (which I noticed after even a medium-length session of use), are often weirdly laggy, and pretty frequently bug out and misregister middle as right or just miss your clicks, even with the "large" click zones and the trackpad turned off in the drivers.

I'm not saying I went in with a charitable attitude, but even that aside it's literally every bit as bad as the worst case scenario for a lovely clickpad.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jul 9, 2013

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



On my T61p I rarely used the nub, but I did eventually enable/use the "tap to click" function. While using the nub, would your thumb be in a good position to tap the pad to click?

Also I'm pretty sold on that T440s. Did prior Thinkpads have this thing?:

Power Bridge Battery
The standard configuration of T440s includes (2) 3-cell batteries, one internal and one swappable. Power Bridge allows you to swap the rear battery without powering down your system. This is much needed for long flights or travelers who are away from power sources for an extended period of time.


Seems like a bit overkill for how rarely I'd be removing the battery.

Edit add: They mention "optional multitouch" for the display, so maybe they found a way around Intel requiring touchscreens for Ultrabook(TM)s, if anyone's like me and prefers matte. Or maybe they just found the world's worst 14" single-point touchscreen.

Progressive JPEG fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jul 9, 2013

shrughes
Oct 11, 2008

(call/cc call/cc)


Cream_Filling posted:

If it's anything like the one on the helix or t431s, it's terrible and not at all suitable if you're going to use it for any reasonable amount of time. The 'buttons' take way too much pressure (which I noticed after even a medium-length session of use), are often weirdly laggy, and pretty frequently bug out and misregister middle as right or just miss your clicks, even with the "large" click zones and the trackpad turned off in the drivers.

The Helix works great for me. Maybe you're just bad at computers.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Progressive JPEG posted:

Also I'm pretty sold on that T440s. Did prior Thinkpads have this thing?:

Power Bridge Battery
The standard configuration of T440s includes (2) 3-cell batteries, one internal and one swappable. Power Bridge allows you to swap the rear battery without powering down your system. This is much needed for long flights or travelers who are away from power sources for an extended period of time.


Seems like a bit overkill for how rarely I'd be removing the battery.
It may not be terribly useful the way they write it, but it opens the possibility of them making a removable 6-cell battery available, which would let you increase battery life by 50% at the cost of some weight. Honestly, I like that a lot more than no removable battery at all (though less than a 100% removable battery--it's an odd choice for them to make).

I'll be interested to see what sort of iGPU it is available with; at that weight there's certainly no dGPU option that would make any sense.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

Progressive JPEG posted:

On my T61p I rarely used the nub, but I did eventually enable/use the "tap to click" function. While using the nub, would your thumb be in a good position to tap the pad to click?

Also I'm pretty sold on that T440s. Did prior Thinkpads have this thing?:

Power Bridge Battery
The standard configuration of T440s includes (2) 3-cell batteries, one internal and one swappable. Power Bridge allows you to swap the rear battery without powering down your system. This is much needed for long flights or travelers who are away from power sources for an extended period of time.


Seems like a bit overkill for how rarely I'd be removing the battery.

Edit add: They mention "optional multitouch" for the display, so maybe they found a way around Intel requiring touchscreens for Ultrabook(TM)s, if anyone's like me and prefers matte. Or maybe they just found the world's worst 14" single-point touchscreen.

I never tried it that way. You could probably set it up, I guess, though in the brief time I tried out the trackpad, tap to click liked to move your cursor around too or even accidentally drag and poo poo like a bad trackpad from 15 years ago. The trackpad seemed really sensitive and twitchy, though I didn't sit there messing with the trackpad settings much and just turned it off. Hardware complaints about the actual clicking and design aside, the drivers seem to need a lot of work because this kind of crap really isn't acceptable in the year 2013.

Even if that worked, the problem is that, at least for me personally, my most commonly used button is probably the middle button for scrolling and not even left click, because default scrolling schemes in windows are pretty bad. Though this opens risks opening up a big :worms: about scrolling in Windows 8.

I think the powerbridge thing is a new feature, though in previous models you could hot-swap ultrabay or slice batteries. Dunno if another internal battery is really a good thing, but it's a slimline model so I guess it's expected and not as big a deal.

OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jul 9, 2013

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

They claim up to 6 hours with a 3 cell internal battery. That's a stretch and my bullshit detector is going crazy. I wish everyone was more like Apple and actually told you the conditions on how they get the battery life.

hampig
Feb 11, 2004
...curioser and curioser...

I'm looking at a 2013 MBA and was wondering if anyone can comment on running Windows 8 with Boot Camp (ie. can it be done yet). Details seem to be very thin on the ground. This would be my first time on a Mac and there are a few things (Foobar, paid up Office 365 subscription, not very graphically intensive Steam games) I'd like to have pretty much seamless access to.

Alternatively, can anyone comment on the wisdom (or lack thereof) of trying to run Windows applications on Mac hardware? The only other real options where I live in the hardware/size combination is the Sony Vaio Pro 13" which looks fine except it has almost half the battery life.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Delta-Wye posted:

RAM appears to be soldered in current-gen XPS 12s. If they were TQFP I would be tempted to solder additional chips onto the mainboard, but if I'm looking at the right chips in crappy photos I found, they're BGA packaged. Fuckers.

It's all BGA, at the speeds we run DDR3 for PC-stuff the lead inductance from packaging in TQFP is just too much. BGAs it is



Too bad new job will probably start me out with a T430s

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



My work laptop is an x230, but I have a privacy screen on it all the time, so IPS (or good display quality in general) would be completely wasted on it.

Revol
Jul 31, 2003

EHCIARF EMERC...
EHCIARF EMERC...


Delta-Wye posted:

Should I expect the XPS 12 to have user replaceable RAM and HDs?

I can confirm that the new XPS 12 is the same as the old. Cannot replace memory, can replace the SDD minicard.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002



Cream_Filling posted:

If it's anything like the one on the helix or t431s, it's terrible and not at all suitable if you're going to use it for any reasonable amount of time. The 'buttons' take way too much pressure (which I noticed after even a medium-length session of use), are often weirdly laggy, and pretty frequently bug out and misregister middle as right or just miss your clicks, even with the "large" click zones and the trackpad turned off in the drivers.

I'm not saying I went in with a charitable attitude, but even that aside it's literally every bit as bad as the worst case scenario for a lovely clickpad.

If it's anything like the X1C, it's amazing.

Delta-Wye
Sep 29, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 3 hours!


Welp, pulled the trigger on a current gen XPS12 from Dell Outlet. For 1K I should receive a top of the line model with 8GB ram/256 SSD/i7-3687 which isn't available on the website (?). I figure worse case I can use it until something nicer comes along. I can't really wait for September if Lenovo is going to wait that long to upgrade the thinkpad line

Thanks for the info goons, even if I ended up going with a hasbeen~

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Twerk from Home
Jan 17, 2009

This avatar brought to you by the 'save our dead gay forums' foundation.


Hopefully there's a T440 available with the conventional trackpoint buttons and no touchscreen. Maybe if we're extremely lucky we can get the IPS 1080 screen on it. I'm willing to put up with the extra pound in weight for normal Thinkpad stuff like removable battery, raised metal hinges, etc.

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