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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





4GB is fine if you're not a power user or you still remember what the red X button does.

I can't remember the last time I closed a window, I generally keep 40+ chrome tabs open and I'm rocking 4.95GB/8.00GB consumed at the moment.

I'm sure if I closed 20 tabs or so I could get it under 4GB.

4GB isn't going to limit you from fragging n00bs or writing email, you just won't be able to do both while running folding@home and editing 4K video and doing a 3d render in maya/blender. If you can live with that kind of handicap, I guess you'd be ok with just 4GB of ram.

TL;DR people who insist on 8GB of ram do so because they're power users who actually bump up against the 4GB limit on a regular basis

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signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Goober Peas posted:

RAM is soldered to the board, so it's not (realistically) replaceable. HDD is really an mSATA SSD and is replaceable.

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_laptop/esuprt_xps_laptop/xps-12-l221x_Owner%27s%20Manual_en-us.pdf

Thanks for that, it definitely makes the decision to pay for their RAM upgrade easier. Impressively they only charge 100 additional bucks to go from 128->256gb on the ssd though so that also solves that.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



signalnoise posted:

Thanks for that, it definitely makes the decision to pay for their RAM upgrade easier. Impressively they only charge 100 additional bucks to go from 128->256gb on the ssd though so that also solves that.

Whee are you seeing that? The site says $300.

signalnoise
Mar 7, 2008


Aphrodite posted:

Whee are you seeing that? The site says $300.
Looks like this


128GB mSATA Solid State Drive included in price
256GB mSATA Solid State Drive + $300.00 $100.00 or $3/month
Save $200 when you upgrade to a 256GB Samsung SSD

This is the option you get when you actually go to configure it for purchase.

Aphrodite
Jun 27, 2006



drat. If they had that offer a few weeks ago I would have taken it. A 240/256 mSATA SSD costs about $200.

Edit: Though I did get $100 off the i7/8gb upgrade, so it actually works out the same.

Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 27, 2013

Superterranean
May 3, 2005

after we lit this one, nothing was ever the same

Viscardus posted:

I guess ultimately what I'm trying to figure out is whether there's a sweet spot for performance before it starts to really become not worth it (more in terms of trade-offs like battery life than price, though obviously price matters too). I realize that there's been some related discussion on this very page in the thread, but I read that article Doctor rear end in a top hat linked and couldn't really find one that stood out to me. Maybe I'm being silly and the Y510p or Y410p would be a really good choice, though.
The y410p meets your power needs, for sure, but may fall slightly short on the battery life front. Especially if you put I through a lot of deep discharge/recharge cycles, battery life decreases; when you start out with (for the sake of argument) a 5-6-hour y410p, after a year or two that's realistically only 2-4 hours.

That said: I always found I took better notes on paper. Maybe I'm a fogey but at least paper lies flat on the table, not blocking your view of the lecture, and it's way easier to put away than a computer is.

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003



Hadlock posted:

I can't remember the last time I closed a window, I generally keep 40+ chrome tabs open and I'm rocking 4.95GB/8.00GB consumed at the moment.
FWIW I've been using 4GB for years and haven't had any problem with lots of expensive things being open at once. I'm on reenix and don't even bother with a swap partition anymore. The only times I've had something approach 100% usage have been due to ridiculous memory leaks of my own creation.
On the linux side of things, free memory is wasted memory, so it tends to get "used" for caches and such, then immediately freed whenever something has a need for it. I'd imagine chrome/ff to follow a similar model but don't really know.

But all that said, I'd probably still get 8GB for a new laptop, just to reduce the likelihood of theoretical problems in several years.
And hey that extra memory means more blocks cached.

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


Superterranean posted:

The y410p meets your power needs, for sure, but may fall slightly short on the battery life front. Especially if you put I through a lot of deep discharge/recharge cycles, battery life decreases; when you start out with (for the sake of argument) a 5-6-hour y410p, after a year or two that's realistically only 2-4 hours.

Yeah, that's definitely something to consider. I'm pretty sure my current laptop has a battery life of well under half of what it originally did, probably in large part due to my bad habit of having it constantly plugged in even when fully charged. But that's also one reason I'm worried about the battery life of whatever laptop I get - realistically, I'll probably rarely need a battery life of more than three hours or so, but ending up two years down the road with something with a battery life of an hour would be incredibly annoying.

The more I look at them, the more the Y510p and Y410p seem like solid options (the Y410p probably makes more sense, but I'm - probably irrationally - hesitant about the smaller screen/lower resolution). I'm still wary of the battery life though, and the fact that some of the reviews seem to be for different models within those designations confuses things a little, too. For example, most of the Y510p reviews I'm seeing seem to be for the version with SLI, which doesn't seem particularly necessary to me, especially if it has a significant impact on battery life.

Does anyone know of other laptops that are comparable to the Y510p and Y410p (even slightly more expensive ones)?

Superterranean posted:

That said: I always found I took better notes on paper. Maybe I'm a fogey but at least paper lies flat on the table, not blocking your view of the lecture, and it's way easier to put away than a computer is.

Haha, maybe you're right, but I've been taking notes on laptops for a long time. Regardless, I'll still need a laptop for school more generally, so I'm not sure how much difference taking notes on paper would make, besides making portability slightly less important.

Brut
Aug 21, 2007

Герой Советского Союза



So since the T440s isn't going to come with an optical drive, does that mean an ssh+hdd setup won't be possible?

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

Viscardus posted:

Yeah, that's definitely something to consider. I'm pretty sure my current laptop has a battery life of well under half of what it originally did, probably in large part due to my bad habit of having it constantly plugged in even when fully charged.

It's interesting that you mention this. I was playing with a Vaio Pro 13 recently and noticed that you can set it to charge only to 80% capacity to extend the life of the battery. It seems like a good idea for people who are plugged in the vast majority of the time.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

Brut posted:

So since the T440s isn't going to come with an optical drive, does that mean an ssh+hdd setup won't be possible?
Should still be fine. The descriptions of it all are a little murky, but it sounds like a normal HDD + mSATA SSD should be fine.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


Viscardus posted:

I should preface this by saying that while I read the OP and tried to do some research, I'm absolutely hopeless when it comes to understanding computer hardware, so I apologize in advance for that.

To make a long story short, I'm going to law school on the other side of the country and I figure it's about time to replace my 3-4 year old laptop. I recently built a desktop that I love but am sadly going to be leaving behind, meaning that I'd like to be able to play games on my new laptop. That said, I'm not foolish enough to want to get a really high-performance gaming laptop, and I certainly don't need to be able to play every new game on max settings (I don't play photo-realistic shooters and the like anyway), especially given that I'll have a pretty good desktop back home.

I'd be using the laptop for school, too, so naturally portability is an issue (though personally I've never really minded carrying around larger laptops - battery life and durability are better measures of portability to me).

I guess ultimately what I'm trying to figure out is whether there's a sweet spot for performance before it starts to really become not worth it (more in terms of trade-offs like battery life than price, though obviously price matters too). I realize that there's been some related discussion on this very page in the thread, but I read that article Doctor rear end in a top hat linked and couldn't really find one that stood out to me. Maybe I'm being silly and the Y510p or Y410p would be a really good choice, though.

You're already making bad decisions by going to law school, so this is your chance to start making good decisions by not buying a hardcore gaming laptop. It sounds like you're already on the right track on that front.

The Y410p is definitely a sweet spot for price/performance/battery life/portability. I think that will change once we start setting more laptops with HD5000+ integrated graphics; suddenly battery life and portability won't come at a significant performance cost. The Y410p is solid, though

Also, why can't you ship your desktop to school? Are you at least going to try to sell it?

agarjogger
May 16, 2011


People needing gaming laptops should pay a visit to the HTPC (home theatre PC) thread and see how compact a high-powered PC desktop enclosure can be. Some of them are barely bigger than two Sagers and basically as portable, depending on your backpack.

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


QuarkJets posted:

You're already making bad decisions by going to law school, so this is your chance to start making good decisions by not buying a hardcore gaming laptop. It sounds like you're already on the right track on that front.

The Y410p is definitely a sweet spot for price/performance/battery life/portability. I think that will change once we start setting more laptops with HD5000+ integrated graphics; suddenly battery life and portability won't come at a significant performance cost. The Y410p is solid, though

Also, why can't you ship your desktop to school? Are you at least going to try to sell it?

I considered shipping it, but it seemed kind of risky based on the admittedly small amount of research I did. Plus I'm not going to be moving permanently - I'll be back home over Christmas and during (at least next) summer, when I'll probably end up getting at least as much use out of it as I would during the school year. If you want to make a case for why shipping it makes sense, though, I'd be glad to consider it. It does suck that I'm getting a lot less use out of it than I would otherwise, but I don't really see a great way around it.

Besides, like I said, I need a new laptop anyway. I personally don't feel like I'm losing much by going with a midsize laptop capable of some gaming over a smaller, more mobile one.

fookolt
Mar 13, 2012

Where there is power
There is resistance


Hadlock posted:

4GB is fine if you're not a power user or you still remember what the red X button does.

I can't remember the last time I closed a window, I generally keep 40+ chrome tabs open and I'm rocking 4.95GB/8.00GB consumed at the moment.

I'm sure if I closed 20 tabs or so I could get it under 4GB.

4GB isn't going to limit you from fragging n00bs or writing email, you just won't be able to do both while running folding@home and editing 4K video and doing a 3d render in maya/blender. If you can live with that kind of handicap, I guess you'd be ok with just 4GB of ram.

TL;DR people who insist on 8GB of ram do so because they're power users who actually bump up against the 4GB limit on a regular basis

Pretty much; I never close anything and right now I'm at 15.3GB out of 24GB on my desktop. Dozens of tabs open in four browsers along with Ableton humming along for whenever musical inspiration strikes. 8GB is just simply the bare minimum of usability for me, but I also recognize that I'm the outlier

Anti-Derivative
Aug 12, 2003
Beware of Squirrel


My ASUS zenbook ux32vd laptop stopped working about 4 months after purchasing it. It would refuse to turn on, when it did turn on the wifi would not detect networks, and it was heating up to high temperatures for no apparent reason.

Anyways, I called in to RMA it. Trip report in brief:
a. I never registered the thing after buying it for warranty, this didn't matter they still accepted it;
b. I RMA'ed it in the UK after purchasing in Canada, they said the warranty was international so no problem;
c. Within 2 days a dude showed up at my house to collect it;
d. 4 days later it was sent back to me in working order. It could have taken longer but the local repair contractor had a new main board in stock.

All in all it was a reasonably smooth experience. Was surprised, I was expecting it to be much more difficult.

QuarkJets
Sep 8, 2008

It's a handshake in progress


Viscardus posted:

I considered shipping it, but it seemed kind of risky based on the admittedly small amount of research I did. Plus I'm not going to be moving permanently - I'll be back home over Christmas and during (at least next) summer, when I'll probably end up getting at least as much use out of it as I would during the school year. If you want to make a case for why shipping it makes sense, though, I'd be glad to consider it. It does suck that I'm getting a lot less use out of it than I would otherwise, but I don't really see a great way around it.

Besides, like I said, I need a new laptop anyway. I personally don't feel like I'm losing much by going with a midsize laptop capable of some gaming over a smaller, more mobile one.

If you anticipate not using the desktop much anyway, then just sell it. Dude, you're about to take on thousands of dollars in debt, sell that loving desktop if you're just going to be using a laptop anyway

DoesNotCompute
Apr 10, 2006


agarjogger posted:

People needing gaming laptops should pay a visit to the HTPC (home theatre PC) thread and see how compact a high-powered PC desktop enclosure can be. Some of them are barely bigger than two Sagers and basically as portable, depending on your backpack.

Then just need a monitor and a keyboard and a mouse, and cables connecting them all in your dufflebag...how is this even remotely an option for the people (travellers/military/oil rigs) that might actually need portability?

agarjogger
May 16, 2011


DoesNotCompute posted:

Then just need a monitor and a keyboard and a mouse, and cables connecting them all in your dufflebag...how is this even remotely an option for the people (travellers/military/oil rigs) that might actually need portability?

For someone shopping for a single portable computer, it's not of course. But it's a nice thing to take advantage of if one were to break up their computer purchase into a compact notebook and a desktop PC. I think a lot of people stay away from desktops nowadays to avoid big black ugly towers that are a pain in the rear end to move.

OXBALLS DOT COM
Sep 11, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


Young Orc

DrDork posted:

Should still be fine. The descriptions of it all are a little murky, but it sounds like a normal HDD + mSATA SSD should be fine.

The T440s and similar models are moving to the M.2 next gen form factor for SSDs. Which is fine, I guess, except basically nobody makes them yet.

mmm11105
Apr 27, 2010


Cream_Filling posted:

The T440s and similar models are moving to the M.2 next gen form factor for SSDs. Which is fine, I guess, except basically nobody makes them yet.

Annoyingly the T440s only has space for a 40mm M.2 drive, which are meant for caching and currently cap out at 64GB

gman14msu
Mar 10, 2009


The T440s is apparently for sale in Germany at Campuspointe.de. Someone on another forum reported they are available in 2-3 days. Whether that means shipping time or actual go on sale time, I'm not sure. Any idea what this means for the U.S. market?

Edit: Translates to ready for shipment within 2-3 business days.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



Hadlock posted:

4GB is fine if you're not a power user or you still remember what the red X button does.

I can't remember the last time I closed a window, I generally keep 40+ chrome tabs open and I'm rocking 4.95GB/8.00GB consumed at the moment.

I'm sure if I closed 20 tabs or so I could get it under 4GB.

4GB isn't going to limit you from fragging n00bs or writing email, you just won't be able to do both while running folding@home and editing 4K video and doing a 3d render in maya/blender. If you can live with that kind of handicap, I guess you'd be ok with just 4GB of ram.

TL;DR people who insist on 8GB of ram do so because they're power users who actually bump up against the 4GB limit on a regular basis

A lot of people need more than 4GB but don't quite need 8GB. 4GB is a pretty good amount of RAM, but if you're buying something hoping for it to last 3-4 years, at least make sure it has the ability to upgrade to 8GB. It'd be unfortunate to get an ultrabook or something with RAM soldered on and only have 4GB.

SSD's help a bit with swapping but it's still not a substitute for another gig or two of RAM

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




Dell announced their new latitude line yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/26/dell-latitude-7000-5000-3000/

The Latitude 5000 sounds like it might be a close competitor to the y510p and y410p as it offers similar features and discrete graphics (though they don't mention which discrete chip it's using yet) and you can get it with a four, six, or nine-cell battery.

Naffer
Oct 26, 2004

Not a good chemist

bull3964 posted:

Dell announced their new latitude line yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/26/dell-latitude-7000-5000-3000/

The Latitude 5000 sounds like it might be a close competitor to the y510p and y410p as it offers similar features and discrete graphics (though they don't mention which discrete chip it's using yet) and you can get it with a four, six, or nine-cell battery.

The Latitude 7440 looks really nice but isn't going to come cheap. I priced one out with an i5-4200U, 128GB SSD, 1920*1080 screen and 8GB RAM on my premier site and it was ~$1400. That's pretty similar to an X1 Carbon with similar specs, but the Latitude weighs an extra half pound and comes with a 3 year warranty.

DoesNotCompute
Apr 10, 2006


bull3964 posted:

Dell announced their new latitude line yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/08/26/dell-latitude-7000-5000-3000/

The Latitude 5000 sounds like it might be a close competitor to the y510p and y410p as it offers similar features and discrete graphics (though they don't mention which discrete chip it's using yet) and you can get it with a four, six, or nine-cell battery.

I've got the current 5430 and want to snap it in half it's such a miserable pig of a laptop, the changes here look pretty nice. I feel like my experiences with Latitude laptops is entirely skewed by hulking encyrption software that my company puts on all of them though. It'd be interesting to run one with just a clean Win 7 install.

It looks like they really improved the bezel and general aesthetic of the 5000 range this time too. The last two generations since they stopped being thinkpad ripoffs have been really ugly.

Cacator
Aug 6, 2005

You're quite good at turning me on.



I just picked up an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A yesterday for $500 off which seemed like a pretty good deal. Only drawbacks are that it has 4 GB of RAM and a 3rd gen i7, seeing as how I was comparing it to the Sony VAIO Pro which had a Haswell i5 and 8GB (and light as gently caress carbon fibre body). But I figured the 256 GB SSD instead of 128 was a bigger draw and I still use my desktop regularly for gaming/video editing and such. Overall, it was slightly cheaper than the Sony. Was this the right decision? Aside from the occasionally finnicky touchpad (is there any way to adjust it), I'm enjoying the device.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012



Cacator posted:

I just picked up an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A yesterday for $500 off which seemed like a pretty good deal. Only drawbacks are that it has 4 GB of RAM and a 3rd gen i7, seeing as how I was comparing it to the Sony VAIO Pro which had a Haswell i5 and 8GB (and light as gently caress carbon fibre body). But I figured the 256 GB SSD instead of 128 was a bigger draw and I still use my desktop regularly for gaming/video editing and such. Overall, it was slightly cheaper than the Sony. Was this the right decision? Aside from the occasionally finnicky touchpad (is there any way to adjust it), I'm enjoying the device.

Asus has a few different drivers for the touchpad. I'm using Windows 8 and the accompanying driver and it is usually decent. Back when I still used Windows 7, I remember some of the driver versions were significantly worse than others, so it's something to try at least.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.




DoesNotCompute posted:

I've got the current 5430 and want to snap it in half it's such a miserable pig of a laptop, the changes here look pretty nice. I feel like my experiences with Latitude laptops is entirely skewed by hulking encyrption software that my company puts on all of them though. It'd be interesting to run one with just a clean Win 7 install.

It looks like they really improved the bezel and general aesthetic of the 5000 range this time too. The last two generations since they stopped being thinkpad ripoffs have been really ugly.

I currently use a Latitude E5530 at work and it's been bulletproof for me. Not the lightest thing in the world, but great battery life and performance on the 9 cell battery.

Actually the only real issue I have with it is I sprung for the upgraded wireless (Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN) and our WAP hates it and drops constantly. People who have notebooks with the default option don't have issues.

voltron
Nov 26, 2000
Zapf gave me this account because he's a friend of the Indian-American people.

A 7000 series Latitude in a 15" screen would be the bees knees. I like that Dell doesn't include the numpad!

Viscardus
Jun 1, 2011

Thus equipped by fortune, physique, and character, he was naturally indomitable, and subordinate to no one in the world.


QuarkJets posted:

If you anticipate not using the desktop much anyway, then just sell it. Dude, you're about to take on thousands of dollars in debt, sell that loving desktop if you're just going to be using a laptop anyway

Look, I appreciate the advice, but please don't make assumptions about my personal situation. I'm not taking on any debt. I'm not American, either, if that's what your understanding of the wisdom of law school is based on.

It looks like the Y410p is probably the best choice for me, so I'll keep looking into that for now. Thanks, everyone.

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012

by FactsAreUseless


If Chromebooks get a refresh, when would it likely happen? Next year?

Anti-Derivative
Aug 12, 2003
Beware of Squirrel


Cacator posted:

I just picked up an Asus Zenbook Prime UX31A yesterday for $500 off which seemed like a pretty good deal. Only drawbacks are that it has 4 GB of RAM and a 3rd gen i7, seeing as how I was comparing it to the Sony VAIO Pro which had a Haswell i5 and 8GB (and light as gently caress carbon fibre body). But I figured the 256 GB SSD instead of 128 was a bigger draw and I still use my desktop regularly for gaming/video editing and such. Overall, it was slightly cheaper than the Sony. Was this the right decision? Aside from the occasionally finnicky touchpad (is there any way to adjust it), I'm enjoying the device.

you can install an 8 gig CL 11 chip into it. It will take it up to 10 gigs. The chipset should dual channel the first 2 gigs or so and the remaining 8 will be single channel but still better than just 4. Installing the RAM is fairly easy if you have a Torx T5 screwdriver.

sourdough
Apr 30, 2012



Anti-Derivative posted:

you can install an 8 gig CL 11 chip into it. It will take it up to 10 gigs. The chipset should dual channel the first 2 gigs or so and the remaining 8 will be single channel but still better than just 4. Installing the RAM is fairly easy if you have a Torx T5 screwdriver.

I don't think this is right. The UX32VD has a ram slot, the UX31A does not.

obstipator
Nov 8, 2009

by FactsAreUseless


I'm thinking about getting a new laptop that can handle 3D modeling.
Here's what I've setup for a W530 so far:


I plan to buy an SSD and put it in the optical bay. Would I be able/allowed to move my Windows installation to that SSD (since it might be an OEM installation)?
Also would I be able to boot from that optical drive bay once I put the SSD in or will I have to swap its place with the built in HDD's location?

Also, does anyone happen to know how I'd be able to get rid of the backlight on the keyboard, the fingerprint reader, and the default DVD drive in the optical bay? I don't want any of them, and my brother tells me you used to be able to mess with the web interface to remove them, but right now they are radio buttons defaulted to checked, so I think they fixed that. But getting rid of them would be nice and would probably save me $150.

e: Also how many cores would this processor have? My brother says 8, but he's iffy about that.

obstipator fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Aug 27, 2013

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



It's an i7 QM so you're looking at quad core, plus hyperthreading so that's 4 times 2 which is 8

Anti-Derivative
Aug 12, 2003
Beware of Squirrel


RVProfootballer posted:

I don't think this is right. The UX32VD has a ram slot, the UX31A does not.

oh wierd. I was going by this: http://www.crucial.com/uk/upgrade/ASUS-memory/ASUS+Notebooks/ZENBOOK+UX32A-upgrades.html which offers a guarantee, but ASUS' site says up to 4...

EDIT: oh that's the 32A. I wish model numbers were a bit more conspicuous. There hasn't been 32 zenbook iterations.

FISHMANPET
Mar 3, 2007

Sweet 'N Sour
Can't
Melt
Steel Beams


Well 4 physical cores, 8 virtual cores.

Isn't their a Haswell W series yet?

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Buried in the SSD megethread are some well written how-tos on how to move your windows install to the SSD

Decoder ring for intel procs

iX 3...QM

iX = 3/5/7
3xxx = 2: sandy bridge, 3: ivy bridge 4: haswell. The
Q = quad
M = mobile

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Socrates16
Aug 21, 2012

"Mr. Roark, we're alone here. Why don't you tell me what you think of me? In any words you wish. No one will hear us."
"But I don't think of you."

So, a buddy of mine has a five year old Inspirion 1525 that he's willing to sell to me for 150 bucks. I'd have to get a replacement battery but everything else is stock. Should I be worried about any issues of failure? The amazon reviews are comically bad: http://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron...nDateDescending but he's a heavy user and the only shot part of the computer is the battery, which is to be expected at this point. It would be a wife computer for watching videos and facebook only.

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