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Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Mr. Pool posted:

If you want to eat poop you can mod that in as well

My poo poo is already in the main trunk, its in every version. I am a 'developer' you see in this hypothetical. From now on if you don't want to eat poo poo all you have to do is mod my actual feces out of your game forever, because they're in there deep. Its really simple to do, just be like 'no poo poo please' but you have to specify now. Forever.

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Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


as loathe as i am to agree with motherfucker in anything because he is so intensely idiotic about his opinions, it IS pretty disingenuous to say that the game is fine so long as you mod the bad stuff out. people have no way of innately discovering what that bad stuff is short of playing the game and processing all its quirks (which could be a process reaching a dozen hours), and both where that bad stuff is and how to go about modding it both do pretty poorly in terms of discoverability. it's possible to say that if you sit down with the problem for a few hours you'll have it solved forever, but in what universe is it reasonable to expect someone to faff around with a game's files for a few hours to bring the game up to fun and usable? that's absurd.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Motherfucker posted:

My poo poo is already in the main trunk, its in every version. I am a 'developer' you see in this hypothetical. From now on if you don't want to eat poo poo all you have to do is mod my actual feces out of your game forever, because they're in there deep. Its really simple to do, just be like 'no poo poo please' but you have to specify now. Forever.
Mods seem to have pretty good stability, just from what I've seen. Like if you go back several years you'll find major format changes that haven't survived but a lot of the simple stuff especially can last a long time.
The gun changes so far sound pretty good except someone mentioned shotguns took a big nerf? Which is weird because in any game (and any zombie setting ever, and I would assume real life), it's a pretty solid close range 'gently caress you' instant solution. I mean, nerfing a close range shotgun's damage in a zombie game feels like the most pointless thing you could do.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Coolguye posted:

as loathe as i am to agree with motherfucker in anything because he is so intensely idiotic about his opinions, it IS pretty disingenuous to say that the game is fine so long as you mod the bad stuff out. people have no way of innately discovering what that bad stuff is short of playing the game and processing all its quirks (which could be a process reaching a dozen hours), and both where that bad stuff is and how to go about modding it both do pretty poorly in terms of discoverability. it's possible to say that if you sit down with the problem for a few hours you'll have it solved forever, but in what universe is it reasonable to expect someone to faff around with a game's files for a few hours to bring the game up to fun and usable? that's absurd.

it seems weird to have strong opinions about me since I don't know you or care about you at all you creepy weirdo

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Inexplicable Humblebrag
Sep 20, 2003






gently caress off, dude, christ

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Vib Rib posted:

Mods seem to have pretty good stability, just from what I've seen. Like if you go back several years you'll find major format changes that haven't survived but a lot of the simple stuff especially can last a long time.
The gun changes so far sound pretty good except someone mentioned shotguns took a big nerf? Which is weird because in any game (and any zombie setting ever, and I would assume real life), it's a pretty solid close range 'gently caress you' instant solution. I mean, nerfing a close range shotgun's damage in a zombie game feels like the most pointless thing you could do.

00 buck specifically got hosed it has six tile base range which in game terms is... two spears long (thus spears should be nerfed, so think the galaxy brain caste) so its generally more effective to use the shotgun as a club at that point since you have to aim or whatever. The damage is ok but an assault rifle for example does about the same for a massively increased range and efficiency. I think some brokebrain nerd figured making it worthless was a good way to counter its fairly ok accuracy and the way it bypasses skeleton and smoker resistances. (two extremely weak and only middlingly common zombie types)

Slug shells still godlike though, so don't throw your keltek in the trash just yet.

Inexplicable Humblebrag posted:

gently caress off, dude, christ

hop off my dick, ok

Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jun 17, 2018

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Motherfucker how have you managed to alienate the CDDA goons, I thought only the SS13 goons hated you

Anyway yeah the shotgun nerf is one of several changes that follow absolutely no pattern or logic outside of "if something is good and effective, it is obviously broken and must be nerfed." Kinda like the way faulty engines were added in because someone didn't like how you could make a home mechanic with ranks in driving and just run around and find a car and be playing Mad Max With Zombies, right off the bat. It was fun as gently caress and let you not worry too much about the worst of the tedium so obviously it had to go.

CDDA has the seed of a good game in it somewhere, but it hasn't been a good game for a long time now, and that appears to be a deliberate decision on the part of the devs.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



Shotguns in most games stop working after a few meters, so obviously.. :hurr:

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Angry Diplomat posted:

Motherfucker how have you managed to alienate the CDDA goons, I thought only the SS13 goons hated you

Anyway yeah the shotgun nerf is one of several changes that follow absolutely no pattern or logic outside of "if something is good and effective, it is obviously broken and must be nerfed." Kinda like the way faulty engines were added in because someone didn't like how you could make a home mechanic with ranks in driving and just run around and find a car and be playing Mad Max With Zombies, right off the bat. It was fun as gently caress and let you not worry too much about the worst of the tedium so obviously it had to go.

CDDA has the seed of a good game in it somewhere, but it hasn't been a good game for a long time now, and that appears to be a deliberate decision on the part of the devs.

in the venn diagram of nerds angry at me I'm pretty sure theres overlap.

The problem with cataclysm is basically: open source is not a great way to develop a game unless the game you're trying to develop is deliberately supposed to be schizophrenic. It shows on every level, CBMs for example are awesome, well implemented, fun, interesting mechanically and they enable a lot of interesting poo poo, stuff like railgun lets you huck a chunk of car through a zombie for very real damage and range, or you can emit EMP from your hands or instantly physically teleport away from danger. But it is fun, comicbook poo poo that interfaces with a world that is... supposed to evoke S.T.A.L.K.E.R vibes, (with perhaps less tracksuits and hardstyle) and so you wind up with these side-grade tone police changes like autodocs and infection that are quite literally I would argue intentionally aimed at sabotaging fun you might otherwise be having in the name of 'balancing' a single player roguelike experience which is as loving stupid as it sounds.

Its not only hosed in the places that are hotly contested but if you look at stuff that slips in the sides like fur suits or stuff aimed to combat the overarching lovely tumor of the week like the pneumatic weapons (guns that shoot basically rocks and sticks for real gun damage at real gun ranges almost totally eliminating the need for guns at all) the cracks start to show and you realize 'boy maybe a cohesive vision, even a lovely one, can be refined into something fun... but trying to put a lid on this boiling kettle of sewage is a fruitless endeavor'

tl;dr: dictatorships work, democracy is doomed

Motherfucker fucked around with this message at 13:59 on Jun 17, 2018

Marenghi
Oct 16, 2008


Is there many games developed open source through github. I can't think of any off hand, and maybe that's the problem.

They've a list of requirements to the next stable release but instead of working towards that you've a bunch of random spergs making their balance adjustments or including their pet feature with no regard to the supposed overarching design.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is one, can't think of any others.

zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


It works as well as the manager is able to manage workload and commits. In this case, the sperg is coming from inside the house and they seem kind of desperate to include some development, any development, because we haven't had a stable in like 3 years. Screwed on both ends of the equation there because leadership is asking only for dumb stuff while also people see they can add and develop random loving pulls and get their name and ~*vision*~ into the thing accordingly.

Its like the old joke about jazz, you hear the notes you do because of the notes that weren't played. Similarly good open source development is about the pulls that were rejected at design or even when fully developed because it ended up not being to par or spec.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

stuff gets developed on git but its not really... games, I'm a loving hippie and think games are art and no good art has ever been made by a pack of nerds arguing and painting over each others poo poo.

Small teams of nerds with similar ideas perhaps but not like, not a broad group of them.

Tehan
Jan 19, 2011


I think it's possible, but it would take a very specific kind of person to be able to wrangle whatever random nerds take an interest into providing output towards a single united artistic vision, and that's a skillset that rarely overlaps with video game programmers.

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


the biggest problem with game development on git is that it is not set up for distribution of binary assets and it doesn't want to be. models for games can be hundreds of MB big and git has a file size limit of 100MB; you need to distribute those binary resources some other way and at the end of the day that 'other way' is probably what you should just use for your game. it has relatively little to do with this skillset stuff. there are lots of organized and charismatic people who have great ideas and can communicate them, but usually those sorts of people aren't applying that very valuable skillset for free for internet strangers, they're in an office making money with it.

Mister Bates
Aug 4, 2010


Cataclysm pisses me off because I feel like it got so drat close to greatness and then people have spent years gradually walking it back.

This was the game about doing a line of coke and then decapitating fifty zombies with a machete while listening to face-melting guitar solos, or kung-fu-fighting your way through a horde of triffids in a plant-matter-soaked karate gi, or driving through houses in a war rig you built by welding the detritus from a dozen cars together into a giant steel Frankenstein's-monster - and all of that stuff is still there, but it's slowly, surely being smothered by a tedious, poorly implemented 'hardcore survival simulation' that seems to add little to the game in terms of enjoyment (indeed, it seems to be designed with the express goal of making the game less fun).

I don't even dislike groggy survival sims, I play the gently caress out of some Unreal World, but they have to be good. This isn't, and to add insult to injury, it's getting into the way of the already-pretty-drat-fun game they're building it on top of.

The Velvet Witch
Jul 24, 2017

"I don't have a "make better posts" spell, you're on your own."


CDDA development is like if someone took Dwarf Fortress and turned it into a medieval politics simulator instead

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


I'm pretty sure toady plans to do exactly that after the million other things he's got in the pipeline though?

Slime
Jan 3, 2007


Anticheese posted:

Shotguns in most games stop working after a few meters, so obviously.. :hurr:

Cataclysm should be realistic, so let's make shotguns into glorified melee weapons! this is very realistic and makes sense because i played a ton of videogames that did that

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



Aside from the original Doom (I love Doom 2016 but the shotgun is pretty close-range there), E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy probably has the best/most Actually Shotgunlike Shotgun in a non-milsimmy game.

It's only a few bucks right now, and after a few hours adjusting to the general weirdness and getting a bit of currency, it lets you do some fantastic stuff with your cyberware and psionic powers. Don't for a minute feel bad about cheating in a bunch of spacebucks once you've run through the campaign once, because this is a game that's at it's best as a blend of Deus Ex, Crysis, and the end of System Shock 2 or Prey when you're armed to the teeth and able to take down anything that used to threaten you with style.

It really does have a ton in common with Cataclysm in that way. It's worth experiencing as a tense exercise in surviving each encounter and conserving resources, and it's way more fun once you crank everything to 11.

Tiler Kiwi
Feb 26, 2011


it really should just embrace the dumb idiosyncratic nature of its development instead of having the manager(s?) piss in cheerios. you need to have some direction but you got an open world sandbox of a land gone to poo poo; that's an invitation for random crap that doesn't mesh together to get along in a chaotic setting.

the whole architecture of the game should have been laid out to better accommodate addition of assets / scripts that rely on the same underlying mechanisms instead of the poo poo pit code base that metastasized instead.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


Yeah, well the code base was never going to be good for scripting and adding assets given the game's nature as an early project of one guy from a long time ago.

On that front, they've done an excellent job pulling more and more of what's hard coded into human readable json files, which is good.

In other news I guess everything poops now, so you've got to manage your local area's wildlife droppings or predators can show up.

Also birds poo poo eggs.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

In other news I guess everything poops now, so you've got to manage your local area's wildlife droppings or predators can show up.

Also birds poo poo eggs.

Wait, what? Seriously? :psyduck:

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


https://www.reddit.com/r/cataclysmdda/comments/8tlqcy/psa_one_of_the_newest_experimentals_allows/

Eggs rot and have a percent chance to hatch into baby birds, so you can do some animal husbandry, and the poo poo works as a fertilizer, but yeah. You gotta clean up after pets now. And the rotting being the same thing as incubating an egg is such a kludge.

In other news, the auto doc thing is almost finished. It's not terrible. It's not great either. I mean, I'll miss self installing cybernetics, but I'm Ok with finding illicit cyberdocs in basements and clearing out hospitals. It's gonna suck if they do the limitation slots for cybernetics too though, then you'll be gated by skill, rare anesthetic, a cyberdoc, and the space in your body. I never was a fan of space systems. It'd be nicer if they'd go with something like X cybernetic takes the same space as Y, so either or. Like you can have diamond corneas, or the another eye mod, rather than your head only fits 6 slots, so you spent them all getting really cool cyber eyes and now you can't put a flashlight in your forehead.

The Velvet Witch
Jul 24, 2017

"I don't have a "make better posts" spell, you're on your own."


I love me some farming, I might actually download this

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008



Which version of this game should I get? What mods should I get for it?

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


Get the launcher and play the latest experimental with whatever mods you want.

edit: Food now rots a lot more, some of the old standby foods aren't so great either. Probably interacts in horrible ways with the pests that rotting food spawn. It's a pretty realistic change, to be sure, but I'm not sure what it adds to the game itself, other than encouraging locating near an ant hill/triffid grove.

Killer-of-Lawyers fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jun 30, 2018

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008



Got the game going, played quite a bit over the past couple of days, but today I ran into a problem.

I started off with a crossbow and got pretty good with it to where I rely on it almost exclusively. I got in a huge fight with a ton of zombies and somehow, I did something, and the "f" key no longer works to target things. It says it's bound to f still, but f just does nothing at all, no message on the right or anything. I tried unbinding it and rebinding it, but it says it's still bound even though it says unbound. I tried assigning a global bind for it but it gives the same cannot bind, remove the local bind first error. The crossbow is in two vertical green stripes condition still and it's loaded, I have tried unloading it and reloading it a few times as well as trying a loaded gun as well and nothing.

I tried creating a brand new world and the f key works fine for that character, so I have no clue what's going on.

Any ideas? I got through my first whole season for the first time this game,

S w a y z e
Mar 19, 2007

f l a p



My only thought is maybe you're using a gun that only does burst fire? Burst and single shot fire are two different keys iirc

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008



dylguy90 posted:

My only thought is maybe you're using a gun that only does burst fire? Burst and single shot fire are two different keys iirc

Using a crossbow. Switched to a glock just to be sure it wasn't just the crossbow, but neither of them work. I've used the crossbow for 99% of the game so far.

acidia
Oct 31, 2012


I've never used it but I think there is a key to switch between melee and fire modes for a weapon. If you hit that by accident it may be trying to let you use a bayonet attachment for a ranged melee attack. Debug in a bayonet, attach it to a gun and see if you get bayonet mode when you hit 'f'.

EDIT:
Top right of the screen should say: "crossbow (1/1) (manual)"
If it doesn't you should hit shift+'f' until it does then try firing a shot.

acidia fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Jul 3, 2018

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008



acidia posted:

I've never used it but I think there is a key to switch between melee and fire modes for a weapon. If you hit that by accident it may be trying to let you use a bayonet attachment for a ranged melee attack. Debug in a bayonet, attach it to a gun and see if you get bayonet mode when you hit 'f'.

EDIT:
Top right of the screen should say: "crossbow (1/1) (manual)"
If it doesn't you should hit shift+'f' until it does then try firing a shot.

That worked! You are my hero! I tried everything I could think of. Apparently in the heat of the battle against the giant zombie swarm outside of the city, I must have accidentally held shift while I tried to fire my Crossbow. I did have a bayonet on my crossbow already, so that's what did it.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



And now I'm imagining a survivor with a bayoneted crossbow, ineffectually shoving it in the direction of a zombie who is 50ft away.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

goatsestretchgoals posted:

And now I'm imagining a survivor with a bayoneted crossbow, ineffectually shoving it in the direction of a zombie who is 50ft away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkxIHXKlkeo

deathbagel
Jun 10, 2008



That is exactly what happened. I wish I would have thought of throwing the crossbow at that last zombie though!

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



On a particularly bad run, I ended up killing a feral by throwing a toolbox at it repeatedly.

Suspect Bucket
Jan 14, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR


goatsestretchgoals posted:

On a particularly bad run, I ended up killing a feral by throwing a toolbox at it repeatedly.

We have wildly differing ideas of 'bad'.

Remeber, as dwarf fortress taught us, loosing is fun!

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


goatsestretchgoals posted:

On a particularly bad run, I ended up killing a feral by throwing a toolbox at it repeatedly.

Unexpected Space Station 13 crossover

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Of all the dumb changes made to this game in recent memory, I think the addition of mandatory "lifting" automotive tools as a separate class from jacks is one of the most egregious. Who the hell thinks you need a goddamn vehicle lift to gain any form of access to a vehicle battery? Those things are literally designed to be immediately accessible and relatively easy to service. And why does this extend even to swappable storage batteries, which are explicitly presented as modular, self-contained, swappable power storage units? Why do you need a telescopic boom or muscles like a Rob Liefeld drawing in order to take the battery out of a single tile of ultralight frame that you've sawed everything else off of?

Not only does this particular subsystem completely gently caress the "refurbish a cool survivormobile" part of the game, it also doesn't make any kind of sense even from a grognardy simulationist standpoint. It's like the sole guiding principle in all development decisions is "having fun should be as difficult as possible" :psyduck:

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StealthArcher
Jan 10, 2010






Angry Diplomat posted:

It's like the sole guiding principle in all development decisions is "having fun should be as difficult as possible" :psyduck:

You cracked the coooooode.

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