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taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:


Time for the Goonclysm fork.

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zedprime
Jun 9, 2007

yospos


*goonclysm fork has one commit making dethawed eggs edible before we lose interest again*

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

If anything goonaclysm would make more sense as a mega-mod like Bright Nights or whatever. Trying to maintain and develop an entirely separate fork of this crazy rear end game sounds like the same kind of lunatic optimism as trying to port SS13 to a new codebase.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:


If you can make cars have diagonal walls, you'd get a lot of converts.

RazzleDazzleHour
Mar 30, 2016



I cannot survive for more than three days, I always end up biting off more than I can chew doing something very mundane like looking through houses for some books.

Literally every newbie guide I've found has said to make Knife Spears which I heard were pretty nerfed, is there any better strategies to not dying other than playing super ultra safe? My knowledge of general game strategy starts to fall off after I get access to Wooden Spears and the plank armor for arms/legs

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


RazzleDazzleHour posted:

I cannot survive for more than three days, I always end up biting off more than I can chew doing something very mundane like looking through houses for some books.

Literally every newbie guide I've found has said to make Knife Spears which I heard were pretty nerfed, is there any better strategies to not dying other than playing super ultra safe? My knowledge of general game strategy starts to fall off after I get access to Wooden Spears and the plank armor for arms/legs

Starting with some fabrication skill is a decent move. Make 2 by 4's into armor for your arms and legs. Also always have a pot-helmet unless you find something better (pretty much any helmet). In the early game working cars are more like a sniper rifle than they are transportation, once you find a working car your first thought should be running down any problem zombies nearby or alternatively any migos.

Edit- after your initial area is clear it's mostly a matter of fulfilling a shopping list a couple hundred items long before you can properly be self sustaining. Congrats you basically won.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Spears are okay, but the trusty cudgel is one of the better early weapons, and it's a lot easier to store whenever you need to free up your hands. A makeshift crowbar also works reasonably well as a weapon if you're going to be using it to pry open doors and windows anyway. In the very early game, the most important strategy is to get away from the dense city areas - find or clear out a house or shelter on the outskirts and use it as a safehouse.

Aside from that... fight sparingly, try to engage zombies one at a time (using chokepoints and slow terrain to hinder them whenever you can), avoid spending too much time in melee, and try to only scrap with the "basic" zombies (regular, crawling, child, swimmer, and fat zombies, maybe decayed zombies and skeletons, and maybe tough zombies) until you're better equipped with protective clothing and a decent weapon. Any other kind of zombie stands a good chance of loving up your whole day if you try to fight them at the beginning. Headless zombies can almost always be ignored because they literally don't do anything unless you're directly adjacent to them.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


RazzleDazzleHour posted:

I cannot survive for more than three days, I always end up biting off more than I can chew doing something very mundane like looking through houses for some books.

Literally every newbie guide I've found has said to make Knife Spears which I heard were pretty nerfed, is there any better strategies to not dying other than playing super ultra safe? My knowledge of general game strategy starts to fall off after I get access to Wooden Spears and the plank armor for arms/legs
Slings make decent early-game weapons. They take a while to whittle down most zombies but they're fairly low risk and ammo is plentiful. A self-bow (then shortbow) is a good investment once you have the skills to build it.
Knife spears aren't vital anymore. A good start would be something like a cudgel, [makeshift] crowbar, or shovel. Anything with a +1 or more to-hit. This stat actually makes an enormous difference, but if you don't know how combat rolls are calculated it might not seem terribly important. As for armor, even something as mundane as a decent leather jacket can help a lot while not burdening you too much. I've never used the 2x4 armor myself.

Honestly the best advice I can give is never fight more than one zombie at once, kite them over obstacles when possible, avoid crowds, and perhaps above all else, watch your encumbrance. Early on you want to travel real light because your dodging skill is going to suck so you need to remove any penalties to it you possibly can. Drop any backpacks/satchels/etc before entering combat. And I didn't even know this till a friend told me, but if you wear rollerskates your dodge skill drops hard, so use them for ranged combat exclusively or not at all.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

The exception to that, as I understand it, is characters with the Skater trait. If your background gives you that, I'm pretty sure the dodge penalty for skates us minimal or negated on flat ground like floors or streets (they still suck rear end on dirt and the like though).

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


The ultimate zombie killing trick is to get a proper lighter, take your pants off and drop them on the ground. Some zombies are smart enough that they won't walk into a fire (most aren't though) but no zombie will ever suspect your pants of doing any harm. When a zombie steps on your pants you light them on fire under its feet. Not so smart now are you zombie.


Edit- If you cross paths with a zombie hulk pick the nearest house, lure it inside and burn the house down.

reignofevil fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Apr 25, 2019

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Starting fires takes time now, especially in windy or rainy conditions, and trying to do that specific trick seems to get you Fist of the North Star'd by the zombie you're trying to burn since it gives them a ton of free hits on you, which causes pain, which slows you down, which gives them more time to hit you, etc etc.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Angry Diplomat posted:

Starting fires takes time now, especially in windy or rainy conditions, and trying to do that specific trick seems to get you Fist of the North Star'd by the zombie you're trying to burn since it gives them a ton of free hits on you, which causes pain, which slows you down, which gives them more time to hit you, etc etc.

Yeah but if the zombie coming after you is bad enough literally none of this matters because you probably live instead of probably die.

Edit- except if it's raining. That matters quite a great amount but not because you don't get the fire lit but because the fire is put out. Plan accordingly.

reignofevil fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Apr 25, 2019

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


ABC

Always Be Cudgeling

S w a y z e
Mar 19, 2007

f l a p



reignofevil posted:


Edit- If you cross paths with a zombie hulk pick the nearest house, lure it inside and burn the house down.

If you do this, DO NOT hide in the basement, yes the floor above you will collapse, yes you will burn to death while simultaneously being crushed by burning debris and punched by the now burning hulk

lordfrikk
Mar 11, 2010

casual lamer


Not having any endgame is really weird to me but anytime someone dares to bring it up they get shouted down because if there was an endgame how could we keep playing forever? :downs:

The Velvet Witch
Jul 24, 2017

"I don't have a "make better posts" spell, you're on your own."


lordfrikk posted:

Not having any endgame is really weird to me but anytime someone dares to bring it up they get shouted down because if there was an endgame how could we keep playing forever? :downs:

You get shouted down no matter what because every place besides this place is so rabid that any criticism is met with "just dont play then"

mormonpartyboat
Jan 14, 2015

by Reene


cudgel -> quarterstaff

Peachfart
Jan 21, 2017



mormonpartyboat posted:

cudgel -> quarterstaff

This is what I just did. I just made a steel spear next because I have had zero luck finding any other weapons.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

I've found that a hatchet makes for a superb general-purpose weapon, if you can get your hands on one. Decent damage, fast swings, an accuracy bonus, and a bunch of useful tool qualities. Holsters on a tool belt, too!

S w a y z e
Mar 19, 2007

f l a p



Machete with Penjak Silat is my personal favorite. Small, light, sheathable, and you get to feel like Brock Sampson every time you murder something with it.

break-up breakdown
Mar 5, 2010



who's ready for another awful change for the sake of 'realism'

World Famous W
May 25, 2007

BAAAAAAAAAAAA

I just want sweet mutations, a robot body, and a sick car.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



If I were remaking Cataclysm, you'd better believe all of those things are way more important than modelling digestion or whatever the hell.

I don't get why they're so resistant to the idea of endgame content when they already have (admittedly as a holdover from the Whales (original dev) days) portals to other dimensions and stuff like that. It'd be a pretty cool challenge to storm a pocket dimension and claim it as your own, build a fortress on the inside of the dimension, and carry the portal endpoint with you everywhere you go. Voluntarily collapsing the bridge inside the pocket dimension might then let you deeper into the alien zone and trigger a rush of aliens who'll charge whatever defences you've set up. :black101:

I really like that the Primitive Technology crap exists alongside science magic (cybernetics) and is another path to thriving with limited resources but all of this added crap with the food temperature, the animal crap and vermin summoned by said crap, and so on just...Boggles the crap out of me. Why haven't they just ripped out all the power fantasy stuff wholesale and focussed on making it UnReal World but with zombies and the odd shoggoth?

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


break-up breakdown posted:

who's ready for another awful change for the sake of 'realism'
You mean specifically or just as an overall trend

That Guy Bob
Apr 30, 2009


https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/29651

Battery overhaul woo. Because now instead of a giant pile of batteries, I now have three?

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Great! Can't wait to be 100% incapable of getting a car built or repaired because I don't have a welder because I can't recharge my soldering iron to rebuild one because I don't have a working vehicle with a charger because I don't have a welder because -

e: also this will have the opposite effect from what you just described; instead players will now hoard four stacks of like a dozen batteries each, probably in various states of partially-charged.

Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 11:26 on Apr 26, 2019

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


quote:

Describe alternatives you've considered

The battery system as-is works well enough, but it's pretty abstract and has needed a serious upgrade for a while. Since electrical tools can already accept battery magazines no problem, this is the logical conclusion. This solution involves no new C++ code, only JSON.
This was my favorite part.

"Well I considered just leaving it alone because it works just fine and people understand it just fine, but it hasn't been hosed with in a while and it's a little abstract, and so since we all know a light layer of abstraction to make games more intuitive and fun is unheard of, I thought "hey, why don't I gently caress with it?" and now I did!"

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


quote:

Describe alternatives you've considered

The battery system as-is works well enough, but it's pretty abstract and has needed a serious upgrade for a while. Since electrical tools can already accept battery magazines no problem, this is the logical conclusion. This solution involves no new C++ code, only JSON.


That's not an alternative you've considered.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Honestly, if someone wanted to make batteries "more realistic" and less micromanagey, just giving all tools inbuilt batteries and transitioning absolutely everything over to various interchangeable recharging methods - thus abolishing non-vehicle batteries entirely - would be a much better approach. Make vehicle chargers a lot more common so the player can go around stealing the remaining juice from crashed cars. Add in a bunch more handheld recharging methods (those goofy kinetic wristband things, little mini solar phone chargers, and so on) both as modestly common random loot and as reasonably accessible crafting recipes, make the exercise bikes in gyms have built-in kinetic chargers, give chargers their own energy pool and a handy one-and-done activation command to transfer it to a chosen tool (so you can juice up your food dehydrator instead of slowly recharging all of your collected tools), scatter around some fliers and notes about a recent trend towards green energy, and you're golden. You could even leave the Reload command on tools and have it simply prompt for a charge source. Bam, done, no more individual battery items and you've still got some weird grognardy product realism to obsess over.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


It was cute that I could turn a lemon a tin can and a butter knife into a battery and it felt pretty balanced too.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

reignofevil posted:

It was cute that I could turn a lemon a tin can and a butter knife into a battery and it felt pretty balanced too.

Yeah that rules, and I fully agree that "just don't gently caress with it" is the ideal choice in this case. But we know that's not how C:DDA contributors roll, so...

mormonpartyboat
Jan 14, 2015

by Reene


i like the idea of the food overhaul but from what i've seen of how it was actually implemented it's just completely opaque and kind of the opposite of what the idea should be. like i was yellow text thirsty and found a gallon of milk and chugged it and didn't get full?

if it was done right, you'd have a stomach that can only fit so much food and it metabolizes that food into nutrition, and actual starvation/dehydration would be on the metabolic side and take a relatively long time to slide into. you should be able to go a few days without eating, which wasn't really possible before. then you set up the numbers right so all the players need to see is when they're hungry or thirsty and if they feed those needs then they never have to worry about the long term effects of their nutrition. and the flip side is that if you don't eat for a week you can't just eat a whole horse and then be fine, you need to be eating a bit more for a week before you work off the starvation.


similarly the battery change is like...yeah it's stupid you're jumping a car with watch batteries, but electronics is such a useless discipline in-game that i'd only really support more scrunk to deal with if there was a lot more poo poo to do with it. now it just adds to the fumbling that (last time i checked) could be solved by modding your tools to work off a car battery and wandering around the streets with a wrench

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Unpopular opinion: computers and electronics should be merged into a single skill with no other changes. Just remove computers skill and make electronics the skill that lets you hack things. Overhaul complete.

mormonpartyboat
Jan 14, 2015

by Reene


that would be much better but even then electronics would still be bad :(

like with most every other crafting skill, at nearly every level there's at least SOME useful poo poo that you actually want at each level as just a matter of fact

what would be great is taking electronics and adding a bunch of jury rigged expendable gadgets that Do Things. take a speaker from a disassembled TV, hook it up to a watch battery, and it becomes a throwable noisemaker that runs for 15 minutes that attracts zombies to it like a running car. then attach one of those to a pipebomb with a 1 minute delay and get a l4d style explosive that can cleanly clear out buildings. get better at electronics and learn how to wire them up to radios for the explosions rather than having them on a timer. have makeshift tazers. have an item that jams so much power into a makeshift tazer that it can shoot a shocker strength electrical zap but its only usable once before it burns out.

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

I'm fairly sure I've already seen recipes for almost all of those somewhere. They may have been in a mod though.

mormonpartyboat
Jan 14, 2015

by Reene


a few years back when i had the time to work on things i threw a lot of those into a mod (as well as a lot of the wilderness survival stuff). the lovely firestarter thats just wire wrapped around a battery that uses like 20 batteries to start a fire was one of mine, though the idea of upgrading it as your electronics got better to make it more efficient to use was thrown out as unrealistic lol

i wish i had the time back then to really work through all that, because the idea was that there'd be some basic lovely stuff that was almost not worth using but you'd have higher skill crafts that directly upgrade it. like, the highest end lighter would be the third or fourth upgrade and use a bunch of actual parts and only use 1 charge for a fire

BlondRobin
May 29, 2005

Sssh! Be vewy vewy quiet. It's wabbit season.

Anticheese posted:

I don't get why they're so resistant to the idea of endgame content.

Endgame content is hard to make. It would involve assembling a coherent idea, getting consensus around that idea, fleshing it out into a complete algorithm and project, directing multiple people on contributing to it, and then choosing to declare it complete at a point. It’s much easier to shift stuff around or build your own “bespoke” (read as: utterly without any outside input, built by a single person without any broader consideration) system to “improve” an area, since the coding there was mostly done.

Creating something new from whole cloth requires a great deal of work and risk, and the developers just want to sit around and be praised for the work of people who came before them. The easier solution is just to make sure no one gets to the end game, so no one notices how hollow it is. Just keep making the game harder and more punishing. Even if you kill off the entire fan base, you can just say they didn’t appreciate your vision. You never have to say “actually, the only parts people liked were the stuff that all the other developers made before i drove them off by being a toxic piece of garbage.”

mormonpartyboat
Jan 14, 2015

by Reene


BlondRobin posted:

Endgame content is hard to make. It would involve assembling a coherent idea, getting consensus around that idea, fleshing it out into a complete algorithm and project, directing multiple people on contributing to it, and then choosing to declare it complete at a point.

it would also create a bar that says "you have to be this tall to ride the content", which prunes the value of anything that doesn't get you over that bar. i find stuff like wilderness survival with a no-cities map pretty fun, but that's something that wouldn't have scope in a project with an end goal of going through a portal and fighting aliens or whatever

but the game doesn't even really need endgame content in the sense of like special dungeons for the game to have a sense of progression - the mutation of zombies to be nastier over time is a good example. i'd love to see time become an enemy by having some kind of catastrophic thing happen to the world at the end of every season, randomized by die roll and having some of the nastier ones take longer before they're added to the table. hell, call them cataclysms. maybe there's a chemical plant explosion and old school murderous acid rain comes back! maybe ~some thing~ got into the air and now the weather is always at least partly cloudy, hampering solar power. a lot of the weirder stuff (blobs/ants/triffids/fungus) could be tied to those so the world becomes significantly more hostile as time goes on - the triffids arriving would be a spooky thing rather than just a letter on the map you avoid.

Larry Parrish
Jul 9, 2012


the true end game is turning city size to a huge number and spacing to zero with static spawns on.


then use stats through skills because you'll be a pitiful 8 stat weakling for a long time, and by the time you dont suck your already seeing upgraded zombies. it's like a lab or prison start on steroids

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goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



I got back into Project Zomboid recently, and it’s scratching the CDDA itch. Development is still active. Vehicles are in and base building is strangely satisfying. Most of us probably have it in our Steam library, fire it up again!

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