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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Inglonias posted:

Anything marked as "feature freeze" for 0.E means that it will NOT be merged into the 0.E branch. If you're waiting for a stable release with the feature frozen PRs, you'll be waiting a while. The only things being merged into 0.E are non-code changes (new maps, fixing typos, etc.) and bug fixes.
What I meant to actually ask is when's 0.E

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Suspect Bucket
Jan 14, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR


Every dad zombie should have a multitool

Telsa Cola
Aug 19, 2011

No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface


Xand_Man posted:

On the downside it looks like EMP grenades got nerfed out of existance so turrets are more threatening.

Was this just put in? I used some two weeks ago and theres a quest which them as a provixed item.

Neophyte
Apr 23, 2006

perennially

Taco Defender

Telsa Cola posted:

Was this just put in? I used some two weeks ago and theres a quest which them as a provixed item.

IIRC there's two kinds of EMP things, one you can't craft and get as the quest reward, and a bomb? that you can craft but is really high level and has very rare components and drop rate.

Basically now if you're in a lab start you can't count on just grinding a few levels and then making them by the bucketload anymore, so you've got to figure out another way to get around the turrets & robots. This makes lab starts a lot harder than before.

Neophyte
Apr 23, 2006

perennially

Taco Defender

Suspect Bucket posted:

Every dad zombie should have a multitool

BUG: game crashes due to overflow of paracord amounts on "EDC" zombies

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Neophyte posted:

IIRC there's two kinds of EMP things, one you can't craft and get as the quest reward, and a bomb? that you can craft but is really high level and has very rare components and drop rate.

Basically now if you're in a lab start you can't count on just grinding a few levels and then making them by the bucketload anymore, so you've got to figure out another way to get around the turrets & robots. This makes lab starts a lot harder than before.

Yeah I was thinking of the bomb which requires a rare component and a microwave generator. I don't know how much else has changed cause in 0.D EMP grenades seemed to make lab turrets explode anyway.

Is there a way to remote-detonate bombs?

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Xand_Man posted:

Is there a way to remote-detonate bombs?

Yeah, cook them off with other bombs :v:

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

Makin my way downthread
Postin fast
Shitposts pass
and I'm probed now


Can you shoot a bomb?

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

to be fair old emp bombs were basically copper wire in a tin can lmao

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Motherfucker posted:

to be fair old emp bombs were basically copper wire in a tin can lmao
Glue, a tin can, wire, and power converter or amp circuit. So that's barely even an exaggeration.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Downloaded the latest experimental and gave it a go, generally positive experiences to report.

Feeding yourself is absolutely still hosed up though and I question if any of the big changes to the cooking and eating systems thus far have actually substantially impacted balance. I'm definitely expected to hit more buttons now to accomplish the same basic goal and finding food wasn't particularly hard but eating feels so much less useful now my character just won't stay full. Six oranges should be pretty filling!

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


it will be in the moment but that is absolutely not satisfying you for long, and considering the compressed timescale of the game i'm sure that's part of the point.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


It's not clear from the UI but actual fullness isn't that important and if you focus on staying full you will 100% get fat.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



Coolguye posted:

it will be in the moment but that is absolutely not satisfying you for long, and considering the compressed timescale of the game i'm sure that's part of the point.

It's not compressed anymore. The default is now 90-day seasons in the build I downloaded on a new machine in November. This really screws with farming.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Coolguye posted:

it will be in the moment but that is absolutely not satisfying you for long, and considering the compressed timescale of the game i'm sure that's part of the point.

The fact that we went from everything being simulated at like 20 day seasons or roughly x3 speed to this more realistic much longer timeframe means I should be noticing that I'm being notified that I'm hungry less not more :colbert:

Coolguye
Jul 6, 2011

Required by his programming!


Lol oh poo poo I didnít know they went to 90 day seasons

Peachfart
Jan 21, 2017



90 day seasons and 1 second turns means that the first few days go super slow until you open up a book and suddenly a day disappears.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Peachfart posted:

90 day seasons and 1 second turns means that the first few days go super slow until you open up a book and suddenly a day disappears.
Just like in real life!

Support your local Library

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


I was just thinking that it sounded like they made a lot of good changes recently but removing the time compression sounds extremely bad.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



You can still set it back down to arbitrarily short seasons, but the options menu will grump about intended balance. Construction time scaling still works and is good, but I don't think it affects some interactions like cutting trees.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


I really don't object to longer seasons but for example I just ate 600 calories worth of biscuits, a whole box, about an hour into my first day and didn't even change from peckish to full. I'll be very happy if this gets tuned back toward sanity.


I might do a write up on butter, I think it should probably have more use as a cooking ingredient since eating it raw appears to do nothing to fill a person.

Mzbundifund
Nov 5, 2011

I'm afraid so.


Doesn't butter have one of the densest calorie / weight ratios of any food? I remember reading that people in those extreme long-distance Alaskan dog sledding competitions would just eat butter for breakfast because it would provide so much energy while weighing the dogs down as little as possible.

CellarDweller
Jan 19, 2014

Down In The Pit... There's It!


They changed what the hunger meter means at some point in the past.

It used to measure how many calories you had in your body, now it measures how full your stomach is. If you are not eating enough calories you will get a message in the log periodically about how "you stomach feels so empty" or something along those lines. If you are not getting that message don't worry about the hunger meter too much and just eat a reasonable amount of food.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

Yeah the system as it is now is... maybe more realistic, but not very intuitive. Your hunger is related to but not directly connected to how many calories you actually need to survive. If you eat to being full every time you're hungry, like I always tried to do under the old system, your character's probably going to become overweight. Aim for like 2000-2500 calories a day, iirc.

Pakled fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 21, 2020

Caidin
Oct 28, 2011


Once I tick over into obese I just stop eating for like a week or so until I tick back down to normal weight and don't seem to suffer any health impact for the starvation diet so yeah.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



The calorie count from the cooking menu isn't always true; ingredients from different sources will contribute a different amount to the final product, depending on what the original had. So like, fish is strictly worse for volume:calorie count when making pemmican for instance, and flour made from random stuff you find in a swamp isn't as rich.

The recipes also need tweaking in a bunch of cases so it doesn't take an absurd amount of flour to make a sandwich worth of bread.

S w a y z e
Mar 19, 2007

f l a p



They should just admit they're cribbing the unreal world nutrition/fullness system and steal it wholecloth because the current implementation is really bad.

Also, not sure if this is a new tweak, but when I first started playing again I couldn't eat anything because it was all frozen (astounding design decision) and when I finally got a hotplate I stuffed myself to full on food, perfect. Now just have a soda to take care of my thirst aaaand instant barf up all my food, now I'm hungry again.

I'm honestly impressed they could take something as basic as food and make it ruin the gameplay this much.

Inglonias
Mar 7, 2013

I WILL PUT THIS FLAG ON FREAKING EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT IS SYMBOLIC AS HELL SOMEHOW



Vib Rib posted:

What I meant to actually ask is when's 0.E

After everything on this list gets fixed, at the earliest.

dylguy90 posted:

They should just admit they're cribbing the unreal world nutrition/fullness system and steal it wholecloth because the current implementation is really bad.

Also, not sure if this is a new tweak, but when I first started playing again I couldn't eat anything because it was all frozen (astounding design decision) and when I finally got a hotplate I stuffed myself to full on food, perfect. Now just have a soda to take care of my thirst aaaand instant barf up all my food, now I'm hungry again.

I'm honestly impressed they could take something as basic as food and make it ruin the gameplay this much.

I agree to an extent, but at least it won't kill you from starvation. It's annoying, not game-breaking. In my opinion, the biggest tweak that could help fix this is by making the act of eating food take time, based on the volume of whatever you're eating. I bet if you ate an entire pizza and then chased it with two liters of water in the span of five seconds, you'd have trouble figuring whether or not you were still hungry too.

EDIT: I posted a chart a while back to the subreddit that I found on Github that explains things visually. I think it's slightly outdated now, but it still gets the idea across.



There are two charts. The chart on the top shows how the hunger stat is calculated if your character has no calorie deficit. The chart on the bottom is used if your character has a calorie deficit at the moment.

I admit that it's still super confusing, and frankly you'd probably be better off just reading the relevant source code

Inglonias fucked around with this message at 13:29 on Jan 21, 2020

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

The "new" food system (it's been around for a little while now) is fairly definitive proof that die-hard simulationists will inevitably bleed the fun out of anything if given enough leeway.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


I actually don't necessarily have a problem with this new food system but I'm eating all the way up to engorged and I should be stuffed like post-Thanksgiving 'not hungry for 12 hours' style engorged and instead I'm not even asleep again before I'm trying to eat

Suspect Bucket
Jan 14, 2012

SHRIMPDOR WAS A MAN
I mean, HE WAS A SHRIMP MAN
er, maybe also A DRAGON
or possibly
A MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL TEAM
BUT HE WAS STILL
SHRIMPDOR


Ah yes, the URW system, where one can live off of dried meat.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Compromise item let me strap a feed bag onto my character's ever churning maw and then let me have a quick button to stand over a tiles worth of food and blend it up and dump it all in the bag as a nutrition slurry so I can go about my day exploring and seeing zombies.

Inglonias
Mar 7, 2013

I WILL PUT THIS FLAG ON FREAKING EVERYTHING BECAUSE IT IS SYMBOLIC AS HELL SOMEHOW



Yeah. I just tried to make a flowchart, and it's not worth explaining in that format. The peckish calculation is hosed. I think it's supposed to represent "I'm not hungry, but if someone insisted that I ate a sandwich, I wouldn't have a big problem with that." The main issue is trying to boil a lot of information down into a single vague descriptor. I admire the game's efforts to try something besides a vague hunger meter, but it makes the hunger descriptor on the sidebar very hard to figure out. The most hosed descriptor here is "peckish". What the gently caress does that mean? It turns out it can mean all kinds of things. Specifically:

  • BMI is "normal" or higher (if not, the decision tree takes a whole other route)
  • Stomach is less than 5/6ths full (you'd be "engorged" in this case)
  • Stomach is less than 55% full (you'd be "sated" in this case)
  • Stomach is less than 3/8ths full OR you haven't eaten in the last three hours. (if both of these were true, you'd be "Full")

If none of those things are true, then peckish is defined thusly.

code:
else if( ( stomach.time_since_ate() > 90_minutes && contains < cap / 8 && recently_ate ) || ( just_ate && contains > 0_ml && contains < cap * 3 / 8 ) ) {
        hunger_string = _( "Peckish" );
        hunger_color = c_dark_gray;
    }
Let me break this down. You'd be peckish if everything on the list above is also true, and you:
  • Ate litearlly anything between 90 minutes and 3 hours ago, AND your stomach is less than 1/8th full, OR
  • You ate in the last 15 minutes, AND your stomach is anywhere between empty and 3/8ths full.

A lot of the trouble could probably be fixed by simplifying this calculation somehow, but I have no idea how you would go about that. Not to mention any changes you make wouldn't even have a chance of making it in until after 0.E

On top of all of that, exercise is a thing. If you spend a few hours reading, you'll be less hungry than if you spent a few hours chopping trees.

Combine that with the weird way that time works in this game (Spending a few hours automatically chopping trees or reading books takes a few IRL seconds, but spending that time carefully avoiding zombies takes a good deal longer IRL), and you get a system that is confusing at the best of times and frustrating at worst, even if it resembles something that could make sense if you squint.

Inglonias fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jan 21, 2020

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Inglonias posted:

After everything on this list gets fixed, at the earliest.
Unless I'm reading this wrong, there's only about five open items on the list. I was expecting a ton of items.
Fingers crossed then! I'll keep watching for updates.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



On the note of good changes that are fun and cool, some helicopter crashes are V-22 Ospreys which were carrying ~10 zombie soldiers and bio-operators. After taking down two of them, I could outfit a small army:

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

Did those rifles drop with removable modifications already attached? Neat. I didn't know that could happen.

goatsestretchgoals
Jun 4, 2011



Most if not all of the modified rifles came from bio-operators but yeah. Nice mods too, I'm using an M4A1 that came with a suppressor, ACOG, and forward grip; I added a brass catcher to it. It still barely fits in a survivor harness.

Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

The inventory system won't be complete to me till it effectively allows me to integrate having a caddy to hold my hunting rifle, toolboxes and other survival crap while I wander around in a pith helmet with a cavalry saber hunting zombies like van pelt

Angry Diplomat
Nov 6, 2009

Winner of the TSR Memorial Award for Excellence In Grogging

I think that's already in in the form of making zombie slaves, but I'm not sure as I've never done that. You could also just have an NPC carry your poo poo around for you, but I believe you need to have a pretty solid relationship with them before you can exchange items freely instead of trading.

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Motherfucker
Jul 16, 2011

I certainly dont have deep-seated issues involving birthdays.

Angry Diplomat posted:

I think that's already in in the form of making zombie slaves, but I'm not sure as I've never done that. You could also just have an NPC carry your poo poo around for you, but I believe you need to have a pretty solid relationship with them before you can exchange items freely instead of trading.

I'm imagining as a sort've integrated part of the inventory system, as if they were functioning as a cabinet. an extension of my inventory basically. I know you can do something like it by dragging a shopping trolley around.

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