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Arven
Sep 23, 2007


The game takes place in rural New England. There are more guns than people in the US. If they wanted to be realistic every third house would have at least one gun and several hundred rounds of ammo, every farm would have welding equipment, and there would be a LOT more food in every pantry. They don't want to be realistic, it's an excuse.

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Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Things they don't like: "this isn't realistic, so the gameplay effect doesn't enter into it"
Things they do like: "it makes for better gameplay, even if it's not strictly realistic"

Caidin
Oct 28, 2011


So their idea of winter play is sit in the house and study it away? Like I finish my book learning by summer if I'm really dragging my rear end, four months is a lot of time here. Hell I only ever made it to winter once before getting bored since they started making seasons actually season length, and that was because I was grinding magiclysm spells up to they're max level.

Short of some totally wild reworks there just isn't that much to do.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


From the perspective that layers offer better protection so some amount of layering is usually what you're going for in clothing, theoretically winter should be your best bet for city raiding because you can do your combat without too much fear of anything ripping through whatever armor you should have put together between spring and winter. Summer is the real shitshow because you have to strip off layers so you can't fight as effectively, but you almost certainly still need stuff and probably a lot of it. Usually I'm walking around in a turnout coat some light pants or some plated armor and a helmet and some shoes and nothing else at all because you just can't wear anything else.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


How the hell do you decide when a player finds an item in a randomly procedurally generated game? Thats dumb. The cata devs are dumb.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling





Can't wait to have to find an entire suite of metalworking, welding, and engineering tools, and have Mechanics 7, in order to change a tire.

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Caidin posted:

So their idea of winter play is sit in the house and study it away? Like I finish my book learning by summer if I'm really dragging my rear end, four months is a lot of time here. Hell I only ever made it to winter once before getting bored since they started making seasons actually season length, and that was because I was grinding magiclysm spells up to they're max level.

Short of some totally wild reworks there just isn't that much to do.

Lucky for you there's a skill rework planned so it will take literally 1000s of hours to get high skills and crafting good equipment will take multiple days if not weeks of time to complete so you'll have plenty of busy work to pass the time with!

Maarak
May 23, 2007


I hope some enterprising person will extract a fun and un-gatekept Mad Max game from this at some point. Like an unholy marriage of a Gmod server and dwarf fortress.

Caidin
Oct 28, 2011


RabidWeasel posted:

Lucky for you there's a skill rework planned so it will take literally 1000s of hours to get high skills and crafting good equipment will take multiple days if not weeks of time to complete so you'll have plenty of busy work to pass the time with!

This sounds sounds like a delightful thing to do with a permadeath system in a rather lethal game! Especially at low skill levels!

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


The new meta will be starting with electronics 5, going to the first house you find, fix the TV, shut the curtains then watch cartoons until starvation sets in.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Caidin posted:

This sounds sounds like a delightful thing to do with a permadeath system in a rather lethal game! Especially at low skill levels!
poo poo like this is why I just play it like any other game with saving and loading by savescumming my rear end off every time I make it home.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



reignofevil posted:

Summer is the real shitshow because you have to strip off layers so you can't fight as effectively, but you almost certainly still need stuff and probably a lot of it.
The temperature mechanic in summer is the only thing I truly find lovely about the current stable release. Cooking with a fire is hilariously dangerous if you're in-door because you heat up to extreme levels real quickly even if you wear a shirt+shorts and flip flops. If you have all the windows open and stand as far away from the fire as possible you can sorta kinda lessen it but will still heat up when you cook for an hour or longer. So you get to charcoal or other cooking means asap and just ignore that whole deal. And looting+fighting in summer is a real pain if your outfit has even the slightest amount of warmth. Nomad gear is a real solid early option but will almost kill you with the warmth it has. Heavy survivor gear(which you can beeline for real quickly too) has 15 warmth and you still start to melt regularly so you have to constantly use the mp3 player to mititgate the -10 mood penalty. And when you roll a day where it gets hot after 12pm (30c/86f) you can say hello to stat penalties because you shoot up into "very hot" quickly. Like I sit in the car with around 30 warmth on my limbs and shoot to 60+ after taking two steps outside. Yeah I get that it would be like that IRL but it sucks to play and when a game introduces things that suck to play for the sake of realism(and is also arbitrary about that rule) or whatever then it's just bad design imo

Maarak posted:

Going by the official design document players aren't even supposed to acquire welding tools until late summer or so.
Just lol. The game is currently extremely far away from that vision of progression and I have no idea how you would achive it in a game with random generation&distribution

RabidWeasel posted:

Lucky for you there's a skill rework planned so it will take literally 1000s of hours to get high skills and crafting good equipment will take multiple days if not weeks of time to complete so you'll have plenty of busy work to pass the time with!
Yeah that's a way to do it I guess :suicide:

Vib Rib posted:

poo poo like this is why I just play it like any other game with saving and loading by savescumming my rear end off every time I make it home.
Also set your world to "keep" just in case :ssh:

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Hyperbole aside, making character progression slow isn't necessarily a bad thing - for one, it makes starting skills potentially useful which in turns makes character generation more interesting - but I have absolutely zero faith that the devs are going to handle it well. Some of the stuff in that design document is really good (having to protect my base from wandering hordes of zombies sounds awesome) but the odds of it ever happening still seem extremely low.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Maarak posted:

I hope some enterprising person will extract a fun and un-gatekept Mad Max game from this at some point. Like an unholy marriage of a Gmod server and dwarf fortress.

Unfortunately cool people with happy brains generally make terrible workers while socially stunted angernerds will toil 20 hours a day to bring their bleak ideas to life.

That's not speculation, many have tried to fork it and it turns out it is near-impossible to get a group of mentally healthy people to work together enough to get much done when you don't pay them.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



RabidWeasel posted:

Hyperbole aside, making character progression slow isn't necessarily a bad thing - for one, it makes starting skills potentially useful which in turns makes character generation more interesting - but I have absolutely zero faith that the devs are going to handle it well. Some of the stuff in that design document is really good (having to protect my base from wandering hordes of zombies sounds awesome) but the odds of it ever happening still seem extremely low.
Despite being flippant in my previous post, I actually agree that skill progression is too easy atm. It's a bit silly that you can start with zero fab and tailor and get it to 7 in the first few days if you find a quiet corner, some food and few materials. Cutting the crafting xp down(at least for lower complexity recipes) while shifting the focus to learning from books would balance that in a natural way imo. But at the same time, you also have the issue of how far you swing the pendelum into tediousness. Because having your PC craft or read for multiple days is bad gameplay. Your only inputs during that time are eating and sleeping every now and then while you just stare at your screen for the rest of the time. The healing system in the game is a good example of why abstractions like that are important. You don't recover from a gunshot wound in a day or two IRL. But if the game would handle it like that, you'd be sitting on your rear end for a week or two just passing time instead of playing the game. So I hope that this principle gets applied for the rebalance of skill progression too

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 18:21 on May 28, 2020

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Has focus been rejiggered at some point? In my current playthrough my focus hovers between 20 and 30, even when just walking around with positive morale. It tells me that focus is trending toward 110 but it's like a quarter of that all the time.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling





Yeah I think they changed depletion/regeneration at some point. Focus is depleted by anything that constitutes skill learning at a far more rapid rate than it regenerates, no matter how high the current target amount is. It'll drop like a rock with a fight or craft or whatever, and take hours to regenerate. The best way to keep it up is listening to music, but a varied and enjoyable diet along with some other amusements can help a good deal too. Also, this makes Fast Learner pretty powerful, because the way it works is by applying a flat X point focus bonus to learning, i.e. it'll say "Focus 12" but you'd actually learn skills as if you have Focus... 27? 32? I'm not sure, something around 15-20 higher though. Not bad at higher focus levels, but extremely extremely good at low ones as you can imagine.

Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 18:17 on May 28, 2020

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Can NPCs help you with bionic instalations? I found an autodoc in a basement and have an NPC with high first aid skills so it would be cool if I could connect those dots

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I think having skills, crafts, and activities take a much longer time isn't necessarily a bad thing. The timescale of the game has been hugely dilated, such that every day lasts like 6x as long now that it doesn't take you a full minute to walk from one room to the next, and we've gone from incredibly short years to incredibly long years. Zombie mutation rates should be scaled back (if they haven't been already) to fit this new timescale, but given how much more time we have now than we did before, making "long" tasks swallow even more time could be fine, especially if upkeep costs like food and drink have been changed accordingly.
The big problem with it that I can see is that simulation processing has gotten way slower in just the last year, such that fast forwarding during sleep, crafting, and other long actions take much longer to resolve now. If a 12 hour task could pass in a few seconds then it'd be no problem, but if I have to wait literal minutes staring at my screen it's going to be a problem. The worst part is, processing times are probably only going to continue to slow down as development continues.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:


Yeah it really seems like the question is how much IRL time does it take to get to various milestones, not in game time.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Usually it takes me about sixteen to twenty consecutive hours once I've got a viable start to reach the endgame.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling





I know that the reckons of some random player who can't program are not worth very much, but I have to say that I really think at this point the focus should be on expanding factions, NPCs, quests, and endgame content.

Balance in a game like this isn't a nonsense, but it's an incredibly high bar to clear in a game that is beloved precisely because the huge combination of possibilities lets you break things open. It's inevitable that people with a lot of experience are likely to know what to do crush things, and removing solar powered lsser rifles won't change that, it just takes out something that people like and think is cool.

A general schedule of progression beats is a good idea, but it's going to be a nightmare if they try to make things actually fit into the specific date schedule the design document outlines, for example.

They'd be far better off adding things so that powerful characters can still be endangered and people still have goals to pursue after getting a deathmobile going and so on.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



The only added content from here on out is new systems of tedium. They've been knocking around how to implement pissing and making GBS threads needs for a while and I think that started in earnest around the time they made you monitor your micronutrients to play zombie game.

The ideal end game is sneaking around collecting MREs for ten minutes then hiding away to poo poo and check your body needs spreadsheet for an hour. And also a functional toilet and a bottle of vitamins are the only remaining rewards at the bottom of labs.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Manager Hoyden posted:

The only added content from here on out is new systems of tedium. They've been knocking around how to implement pissing and making GBS threads needs for a while and I think that started in earnest around the time they made you monitor your micronutrients to play zombie game.

The ideal end game is sneaking around collecting MREs for ten minutes then hiding away to poo poo and check your body needs spreadsheet for an hour. And also a functional toilet and a bottle of vitamins are the only remaining rewards at the bottom of labs.
Pretty sure Kevin said going to the bathroom is hardline never going to be added.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling





I've been waiting for four years for them to add shidding and farding, this is devastating news to me :saddowns:

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Question about combat for the veterans. So far I had multiple situations where I tried to shoot an enemy while being in melee and it often threw me into a kind of loop where I took hits but never got to fire. I assume this is due to me using the "a" aim option? It's the second aim level(above no aim at all I guess) and I assume the loop kicks in because the game won't fire before I reach a certain amount of steadiness, right? And since taking a hit(even without damage) reduces your steadiness, you get thrown into this kind of loop. If that's the case, then the actually right way to play should be to just pass a turn or two to build some steadiness and fire instead of using any of the aim commands?

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


Press period to manually pass the time to aim. You can kind of gauge how much time you have between hits and get off the best shot you can given the circumstances then.

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Tin Tim posted:

Question about combat for the veterans. So far I had multiple situations where I tried to shoot an enemy while being in melee and it often threw me into a kind of loop where I took hits but never got to fire. I assume this is due to me using the "a" aim option? It's the second aim level(above no aim at all I guess) and I assume the loop kicks in because the game won't fire before I reach a certain amount of steadiness, right? And since taking a hit(even without damage) reduces your steadiness, you get thrown into this kind of loop. If that's the case, then the actually right way to play should be to just pass a turn or two to build some steadiness and fire instead of using any of the aim commands?

Aim options don't wait for a threshhold of steadiness; they just wait a certain amount of time. But yeah, getting hit drops your steadiness.

Usually if I'm kiting a hoard I'll manually wait with '.' until the recoil penalty is gone then fire. The recoil penalty are(were?) huge. If the enemy has gotten close enough for melee either switch to melee yourself or draw a CQB weapon like a shotgun or pistol.

Arven
Sep 23, 2007


Vib Rib posted:

Pretty sure Kevin said going to the bathroom is hardline never going to be added.

This is obviously because having poop and pee as free reagents would make the game too easy.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Arven posted:

This is obviously because having poop and pee as free reagents would make the game too easy.
Amusingly outhouses were for a huge stretch of history one of the best places to get saltpeter.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009

If you LP what I LP
And if you work retail like I work retail
You would also scream like I scream


Dwarf Fortress wont let me make sewers for pee and poop and then space station 13 got rid of poop and now I'm told I can't pee and poop in cataclysm .Guess its back to modded rimworld for me

Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...




Where does one find these laser turrets that are being disputed in recent development?

Carcer
Aug 7, 2010


I think they either didn't spawn at all or were something really, really rare in labs.

Deep Thought
Mar 7, 2005


Arven posted:

This is obviously because having poop and pee as free reagents would make the game too easy.

It's because the game is for casuals. If it were realistic, you'd have to regulate bowel movements in order to avoid 1-5 x "You farted" messages in the turn log, which alerts the zombies.

Manager Hoyden
Mar 5, 2020



Alright how in the heck do you close vehicle curtains? It says they're closeable from the controls, but I'm not seeing the option. Can't open or close them with o or c either.

Caidin
Oct 28, 2011


Mr. Lobe posted:

Where does one find these laser turrets that are being disputed in recent development?

I've never found one despite a lot of lab rummaging because I wanted a drat resource renewable battle buggy but I just don't think they spawn anywhere, and I've been poking around for one since last November.

Same for looking for a Warthion drone or whatever it is you can make a laser rifle out of.

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Manager Hoyden posted:

Alright how in the heck do you close vehicle curtains? It says they're closeable from the controls, but I'm not seeing the option. Can't open or close them with o or c either.

You can't close them from the controls without a door motor (installed with a tiny electric motor). I think you just have to (e)xamine the square they are in.

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009


Eoraptors spawn in roofs and parks at night :staredog:

AceRimmer
Mar 18, 2009


Looks like unfertilized eggs are added, goodbye to the swarms of baby chicks in every house.

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Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...




There should not be multiple HUB01's on one world, right? I seem to have encountered a second one.

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