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The Cheshire Cat
Jun 10, 2008



Fun Shoe

Vib Rib posted:

In one of the latest builds they reduced the spawn of all tools to ~10%, and toolboxes (which, reminder, are still empty) to about 2%. The stated goal is to keep people from rising through the "tech tree" too quickly and encourage them to make their own tools. Kevin also said realistically, tools would be the first thing to be looted so it makes sense they'd be missing from stores and homes.

This logic frustrates me because "first thing looted" should mean that where they spawn changes, not that they just... disappear from the world entirely. Like okay if your argument is that it's "realistic" that people would steal them first, then they should be spawning in places where survivors might have stashed them. When someone takes something because it's useful, they generally don't immediately destroy it.

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RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Any idea how recent that change is? I haven't had a problem recently but I'm still running on a pre-0.F experimental which is probably a couple of months old now

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I'll be honest, I made it up. Mostly wanted to see if anyone would suspect it as bullshit or believe it as an inevitable next step.

Rattus Maximus
Nov 30, 2003

hssssss

RabidWeasel posted:

Any idea how recent that change is? I haven't had a problem recently but I'm still running on a pre-0.F experimental which is probably a couple of months old now

I'm on experimental 1814, post 0.F, the funny thing is that I'm finding other tools like crazy. Houses are full of hammers, saws, pliers and even some multi-tools. Just no tailor's kits.

Edit: curse ye

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


To be honest the main reason I was supicious is that they specifically said they they weren't going to implement any changes to make common-but-useful item spawns less common and were happy for the game to just be easier than intended until the NPC looting system was implemented.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Tailors kits are pretty rare these days and one of the items necessary to craft it (I think the curved needle) is also a pain to find. Clothing shops are a decent bet.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


RabidWeasel posted:

To be honest the main reason I was supicious is that they specifically said they they weren't going to implement any changes to make common-but-useful item spawns less common and were happy for the game to just be easier than intended until the NPC looting system was implemented.
Boy I am not looking forward to that.

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.


Lipstick Apathy

Having played 0.E a lot lately I find that wrenches are not easy to find and also are a pain in the rear end to craft, even making a ersatz chain wrench is difficult because finding a steel chain is not much easier (though doable, if you know what to look for and take apart). Still, once the trinity of fab/mech/elec is up to a certain point it's pretty simple to make most of what you need with an electric forge. Having figured out how the battery system works it's possible to just throw a bunch of tools and batteries of various sizes into the back of a solar car and swap out batteries each time the forge or dehydrator runs out, inconvenient but workable. It's what I've done because I can't find a reloader's manual to make me the hand press I need for the ol' Foodco machine.

I wound up just making the curved needle for this character's tailor kit, I know I saw one lying around somewhere but that was after I'd already upgraded.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Worth keeping an eye out for: Some parks come with food carts and ice cream carts which have fridges/freezers and also I believe they have kitchen units. Also food trucks are a thing.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


So I like to run Infected starts spawning in churches because the steeple gives a great view to try to find a pharmacy. This game I spawned in a medium-small town, no pharmecy around, but it was small enough that I thought I could make a decent run for it to try to get to another town that hopefully would have a pharmacy. The better part of a day later I get to another medium small town, this one's got farm with a two story farmhouse on the outskirts so I get to the second story to scout it out a little better and then wait for nightfall. This one does have a pharmacy, wonderful! I pass the time by working on tailoring some better clothes than what I looted from a cabin in the woods on the way...


And my infection just clears up on it's own, late afternoon. Seriously THIS run where a pharmacy was such an adventure is the run where that happens?

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Claim your newfound treasure, approximately three hundred calcium tablets, and let bone density trouble you no more.

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona


Overcame some of the difficulties I was having with really diving into the game and have been running down the rabbit hole for the past few days, and enjoying the poo poo out of it save for a few annoying technical issues (there does not appear to be any way, whatsoever, to resize the window without the terminal settings resetting) (fake edit: I realized while I was typing that I probably still had it set to Fullscreen, turns out that was the problem, lmao rip me).

My favorite start so far has been the Prison scenario, I'm a huge fan of the difficulty and the way a lot of it feels like a puzzle, like addressing the whole situation as a puzzle with the resources I can find inside. I'm sure there's a little element of 'that's cute' from veterans, and once I have more experience it'll be trivial, but I've loved wading through recipes and trying to find trees that will get me from not having anything with a cutting quality to beating Big Boys to death with big loving sticks. hosed up that you can't spear enemies through bars, though, at least the process of trying to make something with reach attack basically served as a huge tutorial. Can't overstate the satisfaction of finally getting it done followed immediately by the disappointment of spamming F only to get the 'You hear a clang x50' notification. Wholly encapsulates all the reasons this kind of thing is extremely my poo poo.

I also tried the Island Prison scenario extensively, and after a few very bloody false starts was able to clear out everything but about 3/4ths of the inner building. As far as I can tell I'm hardlocked from getting into it without, possibly, getting some other recipes via skills. Tried every avenue I could think of--picking locks, breaking down doors, breaking down walls, drilling *through* walls, baiting enemies into smashing poo poo for me (I killed all the ones that could do this)--I could've tried lighting the building on fire, actually, which would have been very funny if it worked.

That attempt failed, though, when I went to see if I could fill a container from the surrounding lake and got instantly loving demolished by a zombie shark. Physically jumpscared me. Rip Mick Prison

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Yeah not being able to use reach weapons through bars is dumb. You used to not even be able to shoot through 'em!

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Sort of in the same lane, I had to gently caress around with the manual targeting for guns to figure out that you can actually shoot past chain-link fences because the aim command doesn't snap to targets behind it.

Now if only the game would prioritize targeting the zombs coming for your butt instead of the random duck next to you EVERY SINGLE TIME :argh:

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona


I'm a little surprised how quickly a character can get to the point where they're facetanking entire hoards in a town (with smart positioning and knowing when to retreat), though I'm guessing part of that was starting in the Prison with all of my points in Dodge, Melee, and Fabrication. The riot armor's probably a huge portion of the survivability, though this wood axe that spawned in the prison workshop has carried the absolute poo poo out of me and I'm not pleased that it's starting to feel the abuse.

Been a couple instances of wanting to reset or start up a new run, which happens to me a lot in these kinds of games--once I have a semi-solid grasp on the situation I tend to start thinking of other scenarios (real excited to try the lab start), but I've been sticking to it with some short-term goals since this is the first opportunity to really figure out some of the crafting and vehicle mechanics, and it's been pretty rewarding as a result of it.

megane
Jun 20, 2008





CDDA combat is extremely death-spirally, is the main thing. Enemy attacks are rarely dangerous on their own, but the pain makes you slower and worse at fighting and dodging, which makes you get hit more, which makes you worse at fighting, etc. Also, the vast majority of enemies are worthless trash zombies -- slow, weak, easily killed, terrible accuracy. So getting just a few points in dodge and melee and a bit of armor, just enough to prevent those trash zombies from pushing you into that death spiral, is a huge shift in your ability to survive combat.

nftyw
Dec 27, 2006

It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.


Lipstick Apathy

I wound up not using a bow at all for quite some time because I remember archery being insanely nerfed to hell compared to... 0.C? I think? Then decided to just try to craft one and play around with it for awhile and lo and behold it was crazy strong like i remember it being. Making arrows out of the zillion plastic baggies you can dump pretzels and candy out of and the remnants of chain link fences means you have tons of ammo and carrying a gun is mostly for dealing with a sudden oh poo poo moment (like when you breathe in poison gas and you cant pull your bowstring anymore because your strength is trashed).

Though because I have that Magiclysm mod on I like to just lure a golem out of a wizard tower and lure it around town on a bike, watching and munching popcorn as it depopulates entire surburb divisions without complaint.

megane posted:

CDDA combat is extremely death-spirally, is the main thing. Enemy attacks are rarely dangerous on their own, but the pain makes you slower and worse at fighting and dodging, which makes you get hit more, which makes you worse at fighting, etc.

Yeah this is usually what happens, sometimes you get too confident in your ability to take a fight and forget to notice your low stamina, or way too many fast monsters appear that you can't escape from, or your legs break because you smashed an acidic corpse by accident... the more you rely on melee weapons to take out zombies the more likely these situations pop up, as fighting close up can burn stamina rather quickly. It is a fun way to play though, gearing up in full chitin plate armor that is way easier to craft than metal plate (is there any reason to go with metal armor) and then picking up even some of the more simple melee weapons like the trusty baseball bat and slugging your way through groups and climbing around fences and terrain to avoid getting swarmed.

nftyw fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jul 30, 2021

RabidWeasel
Aug 4, 2007

Cultures thrive on their myths and legends...and snuggles!


Bows are still fine at the top end (except they do exactly 0 damage to anything with half decent armour, making them still kind of useless overall) but the weaker bows are complete rear end to the point that you're better off throwing rocks or something

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Bright Nights seems to have kept bow fun. :v:

Iím gonna start sounding like a broken recordÖ

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


A system I might like to see would be on character generation the crafting list randomly selects from the crafts that require proficiency in a skill and then it designates some of the crafts to be a lot more likely to give the player the proficiency. Ideally this would mean that, for example, instead of just making two or three hundred two liter tanks when you're trying to learn the welding proficiency you might look through your craft list and see that if you just stretch your efforts a bit and pick something a bit more difficult with more ingredients you have a good chance of getting what you want on your first or second try crafting the more complicated item, which would ultimately be a bit less resource intensive and time intensive. You'd want it to be random though so that each run would feel different and each character would be incentivized with different crafts and different proficiencies that would be available to provide the bonus meaning each character would have some variety in exactly how they reached the endgame if they chose to try and work toward the easier proficiencies first.

Edit- While I'm at it instead of proficiencies just making you suck rear end at making a craft if you don't have the proficiency, maybe after making an item a lot and if you have the required proficiency you could qualify to become an expert in the proficiency and you do tasks involving it extra fast. I'm looking at you Layered Kevlar. I'd let players decide if they want the proficiency and let them become experts in say, two subjects. Maybe three with a CBM.

reignofevil fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jul 30, 2021

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Proficiencies are dumb since they level up incredibly slowly with anything you'd make often, and their only purpose is to make your first few crafts way slower. Crafting a single katana or whatever else suddenly takes like 80 hours of work but you get 100% by the time it's done.
There should really just be a "practice" or "experiment" crafting activity. Instead of leveling up by grinding out the hardest thing you can that has the cheapest cost, just sink some general associated resources and produce nothing useful, and maybe waste more resources (but not the super rare ones), and as a result you increase skill faster. That's more realistic, isn't it?
Also the same thing for "training" with any combat skills, this is a real thing people do all the time in real life, why can't we just practice?

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Thatís what all that .22LR is for, just grab a Marlin 39 put a target on a tree and grind out your marksman/rifle skills. The proficiency system is stupid.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


You can do that for Marksman and the like, but not melee skills. And even with ranged skills, you have to do it manually. You can't just set it as a busy action and expect your character to train for x hours. It would be convenient and realistic!

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


It would be nice yeah, Iím all for making things more convenient, but there are at least books.

Just like, a training dummy or sparring with an NPC ally or something.

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona


I've died a few more times now and played around with a few different builds and scenarios that have all been interesting in how they've fleshed out my understanding of the mechanics. I've had the most fun so far clearing out a nearby starting town with a stealthy bow-based archetype, though zombies being pretty blind at night doesn't matter much when a runner spots you and you're out of stamina.

Are there any quiet, non-melee options that anyone can share to get around how dogshit bows are against armor? My strat when I came across cop zombies mostly involved throwing rotten food at them and then guiding them out of my path.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Fire.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


Acid bombs are apparently completely silent compared to a molotov's only fairly quiet, and also won't attract things via light either.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


Sometimes you gotta break the rules.


Right now I'm thinking about how zombie technicians, much like shockers, no longer yield CBM's. Possibly no zombies yield CBM's anymore who knows. But, if you think about it, this means you basically never need to find an Autoclave in a lab again, which means you never need to be frustrated that the item was intentionally designed so that only plutonium batteries have enough power to actually turn the thing on (since the 'new' battery system means that you can't just throw ten-thousand generic batteries together into a big store of power anymore) and there's no way to wire multiple car batteries together or load in storage-batteries into tools so even if you have plenty of power there's no getting around needing the plutonium. This also means you never need to be frustrated that you have to learn an electronics proficiency by soldering together thirty game-watches so that you can build a vehicle-mounted autoclave and then you never need to be annoyed that you need to provide a water-source in a tank on the same tile as the autoclave once you've got it mounted and powered up. Just telling me I can't do it is practically charming.

Edit- Now that I think on it the cyborgs down in the big laboratories are probably still full of CBM's. Not exactly a ton of these around though.

reignofevil fucked around with this message at 03:26 on Aug 1, 2021

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


I think autoclaves are meant to be mounted in vehicles and run off storage batteries.

Tin Tim
Jun 4, 2012

Live by the pun - Die by the pun



Yes they are. Just plop down a frame, instal a storage bat, a tank for water, and the autoclave (Might not fit into a single frame? idk). I personally put it into the solar power bank I usually build next to my base so the storage bats get recharged

E: But it's true that it's a tedious process to get the skills and materials needed and the only zombs I cut up are bio operators for that sweet power storage 2 CBM and the odd chance at higher value CBMs

Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Aug 1, 2021

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


In any game of CDDA, the point where you can get at least one solar panel and storage battery in either your mobile base vehicle or my stationary home base's "fake" vehicle is a huge turning point. After that point you're just slowly adding more devices and panels onto it.

luchadornado
Oct 7, 2004

A boombox is not a toy!



I've probably got 100+ hours into Cataclysm and I've never hooked up a solar panel or done anything at all with energy. Or messed with implants/labs. Feels like I'm missing out, but I just have so much fun looking for cool buildings to make bases in and beating up zombies.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Well yeah, but putting solars in your cool base means being able to cook and repair without spending batteries.

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona


So my most recent run had a city start that saw me spawn on the top of a 4-tile apartment complex and, early on, involved clearing the place out and making it safe--I opted to turn the roof and top floor into a living area and build out as needed from there. It worked really well!

Though, it also leads me to ask: do enemies evolve faster in cities than elsewhere? Within the first week-week and a half I saw a lot of significantly more dangerous undead, and the run ended when a Hulking Horror burst out of the side of a building, rammed me through an open car door into the drivers seat, and beat me to death before I could get away. It loving ruled, but if I can expect those motherfuckers within the first month I'll need to start prioritizing ways to actually pierce armor faster because jesus christ

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Starting on top of an infested apartment building sounds like a really fun challenge, actually. What scenario was that?

At this point I've played so much Cataclysm I'm just looking for gimmick runs and any mods that can overhaul the basic approach. If this were Minecraft, I've reached the point where I'd start playing a skyblock just for variety, but you don't really get anything like that in CDDA. Too much stuff is interconnected in ways that can't easily be bypassed with modding. Even a wilderness-only run becomes tiresome quickly because so many things require find-only items and without points of interest there's very little reason to ever travel anywhere.

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona


Vib Rib posted:

Starting on top of an infested apartment building sounds like a really fun challenge, actually. What scenario was that?

It was Big (Large?) Building, IIRC. I don't believe I had any extra building mods enabled, but it was on the newest Experimental build

Real Cool Catfish
Jun 6, 2011


Getting back into this, was having a pleasant time canoeing down the river dodging irate geese, when I saw a military checkpoint at a bridge. Land nearby and not only is there a loaded carbine on a body but one of the Humvees is in amazing condition, almost a full tank with an 80 round turret firing M80.

So I do what any sensible person would do, drive to a nearby FEMA camp and start unloading it at the fence. Take a few down before the sheer weight of zombies break through the fence, I back up and smack into the group at 40mph. Immediately upon impact I begin to skid out of control, struggle to correct it as 3 zombies of various flavours are now clambering through the back of my moving vehicle. Then I realise I can just let Jesus take the wheel, so I let go of the controls and annihilate the hitchhikers with the aforementioned carbine as theyíre trying to grab and bite me.

Man, when this game is good itís really good. Time to turn the car around and go again.

Vib Rib
Jul 23, 2007

God damn this shit is
fuckin' re-dic-a-liss


Wanting to give this a go again, ideally not playing it exactly the same way I do every time. Is there any decent place to see new or recent mods?

Sab Sabbington
Sep 18, 2016

In my restless dreams I see that town...

Flagstaff, Arizona


Had one of my first really excellent situations play out the other day. I was streaming the game for a buddy who's always been interested but hadn't really taken the dive.

I was in the process of explaining the different factions, talking about Mi-go specifically, while driving along a very long straight road in the first working sports car I've found. Unexpectedly a Mi-go scout rolls up at that exact moment and starts rushing the car, and completely unexpectedly it just loving yeets itself into my back seat because I'm an idiot and didn't think to close the door.

So I freak out for a moment, even though I'm reasonably geared and skilled at this point, because I've slammed a car at high speeds into a tree before and it is not fun, even if I don't think Mi-go know how to use seatbelts. I figured I could do the smart thing and slam on the breaks, get out of the car, and fight it that way, but that's loving lame, so instead I let Goo Jesus take the wheel, pulled my knife out of my sheath, leaned back, and stabbed the motherfucker to death until it fell backwards out of the car.

It ruled. This game is good.

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Doctor Goat
Jan 21, 2005

Where does it hurt?


Vib Rib posted:

Starting on top of an infested apartment building sounds like a really fun challenge, actually. What scenario was that?

At this point I've played so much Cataclysm I'm just looking for gimmick runs and any mods that can overhaul the basic approach. If this were Minecraft, I've reached the point where I'd start playing a skyblock just for variety, but you don't really get anything like that in CDDA. Too much stuff is interconnected in ways that can't easily be bypassed with modding. Even a wilderness-only run becomes tiresome quickly because so many things require find-only items and without points of interest there's very little reason to ever travel anywhere.

Once, there was Lua in CDDA. This led to a lot of weird Japanese porn mods (yes, really specifically Japanese) and was hard enough to maintain that even I kind of understand its removal. Before it was removed, it enabled all kinds of wild scripting

One of the keys to it being removed was that compiling on Windows didn't result in a failure to compile Lua, but the resulting Lua was missing things like multiplication

Vib Rib posted:

I'll be honest, I made it up. Mostly wanted to see if anyone would suspect it as bullshit or believe it as an inevitable next step.

This game has so many changes that make me bonk my head on the wall, but this one was a little much. I actually went and checked the Git issues.

Do that every now and then for entertainment because usually it's pretty normal but then you get issues like "Foot pedals allow perpetual motion machines" and "Pouring a bottle of water into a 60L tank results in 60L of water being set to absolute zero"

I love this game a lot and I wrote a launcher for Bright Nights but people didn't really use it because it was just a command line to get you the newest version of BN. I didn't end up with an acceptable backup method for saves, but considering the remyroy launcher used to discard saves if anything went wrong at all, I don't feel too bad.

edit: The Resident Evil mod is really funny because the dev for a while made the weak Ganados fairly common and they'd drop green herbs which worked like bandages did in the old days, except full body.

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