Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


Cardiovorax posted:

Let's hope it will also be way, way easier to get rid of, because having unstoppable fungus take over the whole map is not my idea of a fun time.

Honestly you know what would be great? Selectable enemy types. Only classic zombies is boring but if they are going to say "hey lets make the unfun monsters significantly less fun!" I'd like the ability to just not have them in my worldfile. I have a sneaking suspicion that would interfere with some developers favoritest pet code they spent weeks on just to make sure that nobody can ever have a character for more then 4 days tops, though, so it'll probably never happen.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

That would be pretty great. I'd love to be able to get rid of stuff like Flaming Eyes in particular. They're just horrible and annoying.

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Tyskil posted:

Honestly you know what would be great? Selectable enemy types. Only classic zombies is boring but if they are going to say "hey lets make the unfun monsters significantly less fun!" I'd like the ability to just not have them in my worldfile. I have a sneaking suspicion that would interfere with some developers favoritest pet code they spent weeks on just to make sure that nobody can ever have a character for more then 4 days tops, though, so it'll probably never happen.

The Fungaloids have been overhauled and changed significantly so it's not simply more of them, and it was created by a contributor not an official developer so it's not really going to become a pet project. (Although reworking funaloids and other such overworld enemy types is a stated goal of the DDA team)

Kevin personally feels like Bionics should be completely removed but is smart enough to know that his personal preferences aren't necessarily in line with everyone else's so it stayed in.

Personalised spawn options would be nice, I'd like to see a lot of current binary options become choices. A good example would be the professions changing from these pre programmed choices to a customisable set of options that adjusted the points required dynamically. Making your own unique character 'class' with bionics or mutations and starting equipment would be pretty cool.

Inadequately
Oct 9, 2012


Looking through the forum, it seems that they're trying to remove hardcoded monsters and have them all in one editable file, so hopefully it should be easier to toggle certain monsters on and off from then on. Also, there's now a bulk .json modding tool uploaded on the site, which is good news for people like me who are bad at mucking around with code. I'll have to try it out later.

Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


Strumpie posted:

Kevin personally feels like Bionics should be completely removed but is smart enough to know that his personal preferences aren't necessarily in line with everyone else's so it stayed in.

Personalised spawn options would be nice, I'd like to see a lot of current binary options become choices. A good example would be the professions changing from these pre programmed choices to a customisable set of options that adjusted the points required dynamically. Making your own unique character 'class' with bionics or mutations and starting equipment would be pretty cool.

Yeah I know I was exaggerating for effect.

I like your idea though, you can find flyers for things like bionics and such in the world so being able to pick and choose your starting ones would make sense.

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Tyskil posted:

Yeah I know I was exaggerating for effect.

I like your idea though, you can find flyers for things like bionics and such in the world so being able to pick and choose your starting ones would make sense.

Now you're starting me to think about persistent unlockables, where you can find flyers or items in the game and unlock them on subsequent playthroughs of that worldfile.

Not sure Cataclysm is the right kind of game for those kind of unlocks. Reach the bottom of a lab to have advanced bionics on character creation?

William Henry Hairytaint
Oct 29, 2011





No, please, no unlocks. No achievement type grinds. No goals that aren't self-set. And for the love of god no tying it to the world file. I start fresh with almost every character and I know I'm not the only one.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Same here, that would be terrible for me. I never use the same world twice.

Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


Yeah, I'm usually a sucker for permadeath games with progressive unlocks but that would probably kill Cataclysm for me. Being told "you don't get to do this until you perform arbitrary task 30" would just lead to having to make super efficient characters to grind up all the unlocks and by the time I actually get to make a character that has the stuff I want I'm sick of the game for exactly as much time as it takes for a new update to come out and break save compatibility. Then I get to do it again!

As it stands right now I just make a lovely low point character and then buy bionics and mutations through debug until I have Robot-Spider-Birdman or whatever and I would rather character creation have more options so I don't need to do that, not less options so I always need to do that.

Also yeah I usually reset worlds out of habit from back when not doing that would give you strange map glitches so that would be double terrible if it was tied to worldfile.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


The only unlockables being considered are things that would be added to a global lore list (think Wesnoth, minimal impact on game beyond allowing you to review what you discovered without having to worry about spoilers like on the wiki, and very mod compatible) and as part of the expanded scenario system (a system designed explicitly to give players goals and things to do for those who want a little more structure, and will eventually incorporate things like our current Defense Mode but is considered "on top of" the main game rather than part of it).

Neither of these will have any effect on regular gameplay, but some scenarios might end up being things you can "unlock" - almost all of these will be challenges though, rather than anything a person would traditionally consider a "reward".

The hoped for standard bearer for this will be the clone labs scenario, where successfully reactivating a clone lab will (globally) unlock the "From the Vats" scenario, where you get to start as a player with no name, no equipment, and a few random mutations, ejected onto the floor in front of a lab cloning vat.

And even then we might decide the whole "unlocking" thing is dumb and just make them available from the get go, but again worried about spoilers and new players having their sense of discovery ruined by a bunch of scenarios describing things they don't know about (like an 'infected by the fungaloid virus' scenario or something). Any "mundane" scenario that doesn't have any spoiler potential is pretty much guaranteed to be unlocked from the getgo, and you will be able to manually unlock the others through a text file or something if you want anyway.

Bilal
Feb 20, 2012



I don't really think Cataclysm is the kind of game that "gets" spoiled. The way it's randomized means I've had characters stumble on the best equipment or the toughest enemies a few steps out of the shelter. Like a dude I made who walked out of the survival shelter, onto the main street, and there was a crate full of energy weapons laying right there on the road, or finding a zweihander in the second pawn shop I went inside, etc.

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


I think there's a difference between having one of your first characters stumble upon a crate full of energy weapons and going "holy crap, energy weapons!" and seeing energy weapons on the list of starts. So at the very least I can definitely see the merit of an "injected by fungaloid virus" scenario not unlocking until you've actually encountered fungaloids.

Or maybe it just being a mystery what the scenario is, but it's still selectable.

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

Is it worth picking up hulls and casings from guns? I know you can create more bullets using a die & press, but it looks like you can only get primer, lead and gunpowder from disassembling other ammo (I'm assuming gunpowder might have another way to be made).

Inadequately
Oct 9, 2012


Don't think you can create gunpowder outside of disassembling bullets. If you have the bullet puller and the hand press and die set, go for it, but you probably shouldn't go out of your way to collect them. Just set casings as an autopickup or stick a brass catcher on your rifle.

e: And I've seen primers and stacks of casing in gun stores, but never lead or gunpowder. Maybe that'll be a craftable once chemistry is worked out.

TheBlandName
Feb 5, 2012


If you're using the nightlies you can make gunpowder with 4 fabrication and 1 cooking. The components are oxidizer powder, lye powder, and charcoal. All the components are renewable by 8 in cooking, but oxidizer powder takes a lot of intermediate steps. Bones or wood to charcoal to lye powder to salt to salt water to bleach to oxidizer powder. To gunpowder. I don't know what the yields on each step are, so you could be burning hundreds of bones over days in game to get each batch of gunpowder. But it's an option. Ammonia can be substituted for lye powder. You can also make ammonia with lye powder and scrap metal, so that might increase efficiency at the expense of not technically being renewable. But a single wreck would give you metal for years of gunpowder production so whatever.

You can also melt steel chunks into lead, and with oxidizer powder you can make new primers. The only thing you can't make for more ammo is casings.

The lead step actually uses up a fair bit of metal each time. I could see burning through a car with it, though maybe not a truck.

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Using the current nightly system of ammunition creation it is entirely possible to create an ongoing and sustainable pool of ammunition only limited by your current supply of casings for your desired weapons.

In my current game I am using .308 ammunition for my rifle. I have only found 60 rounds of it and under the old system there was no realistic way to replenish it unless I found more. But now I have a permanent supply of 60 .308 because it's relatively simple to resupply my 60 rounds with the right skills and I can do it indefinitely.
It takes no more effort than collecting other materials for crafting, if you keep doing it as a normal activity you will be able to sustain an adequate supply of ammunition for your desired gun.

Keep your casings, the new system makes gun store running much less necessary once you have your initial start up and it has created a sustainable way of using firearms throughout the entire game. (0.8 people get on the nightlies, you're missing out.)

e: .303 is not .308.
Oxidiser powder can be the main hold up if you can't get bleach, (or ammonia for gunpowder) but I find what you can collect in a lab can create large amounts of ammunition before you need to actively collect more. Provided you aren't firing thousands of rounds of high powered ammunition rapid fire you shouldn't have to do it too often. The weaker ammunition is created in much larger quantities so the balance is maintained nicely.

Strumpie fucked around with this message at 10:45 on Oct 20, 2013

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


I decided to go a little :spergin: and create a run down of the current ammunition creation system so I could understand it and to encourage people into firearms and the nightly build. Everyone knows firearms are cooler than bows. :colbert:

For the whole process the skills you need are:
Fabrication - 2-9 (only birdshot can be made with 2, 9mm and others start a 3)
Firearms - 1-7 (for different ammunition types)
Cooking - 1-8 (gunpowder can be made with cooking 1, lye 4, bleach/ammonia 6 and oxidiser 8)

The components for ammunition are:
10-100 x Casing
10-100 x Primer
60-600 x Gunpowder (with an average of around 200 for common ammunition types)
40-600 x Lead
Some recipes require additional materials, a common one being copper tubing.

First there are the easily obtainable materials for lead/primer which is scrap metal, copper tubing and the casings which you have to have anyway. The difficulty is in the primer and gunpowder.

Creating bleach and ammonia shouldn't be necessary and is likely to be much easier collecting it from labs than creating your own in large quantities. For this reason I would also suggest not using lye at all and use ammonia as a substitute when making gunpowder. If you do both of these you will need much less charcoal and only for the gunpowder.

A single jug of bleach creates 1000 oxidiser. Add 5 Charcoal and 1 jug of ammonia and this is enough for 1000 gunpowder. That's enough for 250 9mm rounds or 120 .308, the amounts vary quite a bit between ammunition types but you can expect a reasonable yield no matter what you want.
Now you will need some more oxidiser to make primer, every primer equals 1 round. This means a single jug of bleach creates enough primer for 2000 rounds of any ammunition, 9mm or .308, doesn't matter. 2000 rounds is a lot of ammunition for 1 jug of bleach and should last anyone a long time.
As you can see, all it takes material wise to create an adequate supply of ammunition is 2 jugs of bleach, 1 jug of ammonia and 5 charcoal. The extra jug of bleach is only needed every 2000 rounds of ammunition created though, so consumption will not be high. The rest are common materials that are not difficult to find and are in sufficient quantity.

In creating new ammunition casings are the bottleneck of production and should be preserved if you are using a particular ammunition type on a regular basis. I feel this system they have created addresses the long term viability of firearms and is not an overly complex system.
The yields seem quite high but when playing it's balanced quite heavily into you needing cooking 8, a reasonable fabrication skill and then the firearms skill for assorted ammo. The real hump to being able to create your own supply is probably the equipment needed for all this which is significant.

Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


Does having higher strength make weapons faster? I know you can make larger weapons count as one handed by having high enough strength. Sledgehammers say they are useless for anyone other than high strength characters but I can't tell if that just means there's a damage nerf on it unless you have so much str of if you can actually swing it faster.

Speaking of things being one/two handed, is there any plans to eventually be able to have a shield? with the amount of things you can forge and craft already I'm surprised that you can't just put some leather straps on a road sign or something, the game already has a "shield" weapon property but so far the only thing that has it is manhole covers and those aren't exactly convenient to carry around.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

GlyphGryph posted:

The hoped for standard bearer for this will be the clone labs scenario, where successfully reactivating a clone lab will (globally) unlock the "From the Vats" scenario, where you get to start as a player with no name, no equipment, and a few random mutations, ejected onto the floor in front of a lab cloning vat.
That sounds good to me, challenge scenarios like that would be a pretty fun way to do unlockables.

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Tyskil posted:

Does having higher strength make weapons faster? I know you can make larger weapons count as one handed by having high enough strength. Sledgehammers say they are useless for anyone other than high strength characters but I can't tell if that just means there's a damage nerf on it unless you have so much str of if you can actually swing it faster.

Cataclysm Wiki posted:

A weapon's speed is calculated from its volume and weight, according to the formula:
moves per attack = 65 + (4 x weapon's volume) + (2 x weapon's weight)

Item is considered two-handed if its weight divided by 113 is 4 times more that current character's strength, or if it has the ALWAYS_TWOHAND flag. All non-pistol firearms are two-handed, regardless of their other attributes.

That's according to the wiki but I'm not certain that calculation is still being used.

From testing in game your melee attack speed is entirely governed by its primary skill. Knives use cutting, sledgehammers use bashing etc. and with a low skill you will attack at the listed moves per attack. As you increase in that skill though your moves per attack will decrease and you will attack faster which seems to be capped at -50%. So the 227 sledgehammer becomes 114 with a high bashing skill.

If you use a two handed weapon with low strength I believe your fumble chance during a miss increases which makes your attack cost +50%. I'm not sure how the normal miss system interacts with two handed weapons and what part strength plays in it but you will get 'You miss and stumble with the momentum' warnings with the sledgehammer and low strength, maybe it's a unique flag to the weapon though, I don't know.

Archery skill will decrease the amount of time it takes you to reload and fire an arrow. With crossbows each point of strength reduces the reload time by an amount but again not certain on the numbers any more.
As for the BLOCK flag on weapons I believe it was completely reworked or made redundant some time ago when melee combat was redone. Someone get a developer in here, stat.

William Henry Hairytaint
Oct 29, 2011





Strumpie posted:

I decided to go a little :spergin: and create a run down of the current ammunition creation system so I could understand it and to encourage people into firearms and the nightly build. Everyone knows firearms are cooler than bows. :colbert:

I dunno buddy, being a post-apocalyptic ranger is pretty cool. I will admit that I feel safest in this game with a fully loaded Mossberg though, noise be damned. Anything that gets within two squares is getting a face full of shot.

Thanks for the rundown, I'm using a nightly from a week and a half or so ago, guess it's time to grab the latest and give this a try.

Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


So in the latest nightly I fatfingered some keys and instead of cutting up a boot for leather I put a knife in the boot. Is that just free storage for knives or what?

Edit: Also I assume the fact that there are spores everywhere in the fields but no fungaloids/spire nearby has something to do with that fungaloid overhaul that was mentioned?

Tyskil fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Oct 21, 2013

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

What's the best way to deal with dragonflies?

EDIT: Oh lovely, I found an Infinite Beartrap glitch in the nightly build. Wield a beartrap in you hands and activate it and it'll lay the trap but not remove it from your inventory. Seems to apply this to every bear trap; might just be my file.

Spaceking fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Oct 21, 2013

chiefnewo
May 21, 2007



Spaceking posted:

What's the best way to deal with dragonflies?

EDIT: Oh lovely, I found an Infinite Beartrap glitch in the nightly build. Wield a beartrap in you hands and activate it and it'll lay the trap but not remove it from your inventory. Seems to apply this to every bear trap; might just be my file.

I seem to recall coming across a commit in the Git repository about traps not being used up, so it will probably be patched before long.

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Tyskil posted:

Edit: Also I assume the fact that there are spores everywhere in the fields but no fungaloids/spire nearby has something to do with that fungaloid overhaul that was mentioned?

Random fungaloids shouldn't spawn on their own near no spire or fungal terrain, can't see anything to suggest it would in the code added. As for the new fungal system it was a major improvement and supports things like permanent diseases and bleeding.

quote:

1) Fungaloids slowly convert the terrain near them to fungal versions through their spores.
2) This growth rate is dependent on the amount of nearby fungal terrain. More fungal terrain = faster growth.
3) All of fungal terrain is flammable, if it gets to be too big of a problem burn it!
4) Fungaloids spawn more spores
5) Spores take much longer to attempt to plant themselves
6) Spores can only successfully grow into young fungaloids if they land on fungalized terrain
7) Adult Fungaloids are no longer hostile to the player
8) Both young fungaloids and adult fungaloids are much worse at combat
9) Young fungaloids now grow up into adult fungaloids
10) Spores now can cover each body part separately
11) Spores slow you more as you become more covered in spores
12) Only a tiny amount of spores proceed to the fungal infection stage, based on your health and the intensity of the spore disease
13) Spires now fling the player when they summon walls beneath them (potentially damaging them) instead of magically teleporting them away
14) Spires no longer instantly regrow fungal walls, though they still regrow fairly quickly
15) Fungal zombies/ants now produce less spores much less often
16) Added new item "fungicide" which can be crafted from a new triffid's parts or found rarely in military/science locations. This item will cure fungal infections and force spores out of the player's body. The recipe for fungicide requires survival 1 and cooking 2.

My bolding, for the full list of changes look here on Github

Looking through the last week or so of commits from Github, along with 'G' now moving furniture, items spawn inside vehicle trunks now so checking them can be worthwhile. Also the trap item removal is already fixed, three days ago, but hasn't yet been merged.

Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


In the vein of things we'd like to see in Cataclysm I'd like to be able to attach a sling to a gun and just have it count as wearable torso encumbrance instead of having to shove it in my backpack/pants because that's where all my spare cigarette lighters go but I need the volume! Besides if you are going whole hog into ranged combat torso encumbrance isn't that bad anyway.



Yeah most of that changelog looks okay but when I read further down people were complaining that fungal disease is too hard to get, you should get infected if you have any exposed skin 100% guaranteed! Also Fungal biome should spread everywhere within 2-3 days unless you spent literally the whole game beating it back!

Seriously let people have their nothing but fungus apocalypse as long as there's some way for me to play the game without constant 24/7 Super Mario shenanigans.

Edit: They should really expand the "only classic zombies" option to something other than a binary all or nothing choice.

Edit 2: It's also literally impossible to get rid of! In the latest nightly I shot down a fungal spire and all the fungal enemies near it and then burned literally every patch of fungal ground surrounding it that I could find, then put down a tent and went to sleep only to wake up surrounded by patches of fungal bloom stretching two map tiles away from me. The next closest fungal bloom is literally on the edge of what the reveal map debug will show me so either its impossible to stop or it will cover hundreds of map tiles in one night.

Tyskil fucked around with this message at 07:01 on Oct 22, 2013

Malkar
Aug 19, 2010

Taste the cloud


Really weird bug. If I open any inventory related menu, it instantly closes... It flickers on, then off. I can't select any objects. Using the latest experimental.

Edit: So, yeah, not sure if the Experimental has been updated yet but the one I downloaded yesterday is unplayable because after a certain amount of time it starts receiving a constant unidentifiable input. So, if you open the inventory, it says "You don't have ' '".

Malkar fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Oct 22, 2013

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

How exactly does the game calculate whether attacks hit or not? I'm not talking about things that affect the outcome like stats, weight and encumbrance, but the actual calculation itself. From what I can tell, it definitely operates mainly off of your skill, and if the damage calculation using dice rolling is any indication, it might be a dice roll as well against the enemy's agility or dodging. Anyone know exactly how the equation works? I've looked around on the wiki but its all vague explanations of "this improves/inhibits accuracy". Maybe I'm just missing the section where all the formulas are, but the damage calculations are pretty easy to find.

Bilal
Feb 20, 2012



Spaceking posted:

How exactly does the game calculate whether attacks hit or not? I'm not talking about things that affect the outcome like stats, weight and encumbrance, but the actual calculation itself. From what I can tell, it definitely operates mainly off of your skill, and if the damage calculation using dice rolling is any indication, it might be a dice roll as well against the enemy's agility or dodging. Anyone know exactly how the equation works? I've looked around on the wiki but its all vague explanations of "this improves/inhibits accuracy". Maybe I'm just missing the section where all the formulas are, but the damage calculations are pretty easy to find.

I'd like to know what the actual calculation is as well. It almost feels like a moot point though, because once I've gotten a character going to around melee ~9, I can have 4 torso encumbrance, and still hit zombies with a zweihander about 90% of the time, and about 90% of those hits are one-hit-kills. I'm not sure melee should be toned down or not because clearing out the entire city with a zweihander is fun, but it feels easy.

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

Right, I don't know if this is supposed to happen but I went on a little adventure and came upon horror. There was a sewage plant near by base that I hadn't checked out yet, and looking around the only interesting place was behind a big metal door. So I tried to leave but fell in a sinkhole that dropped me to the giant sewage tanks below the ground. Found some nice loot and some dynamite at least. After wading through the literal crap, I got back upstairs to find the same locked door, only now on the other side. Lucky me for finding dynamite. Unlucky me for setting it off in evidently the most populated riverbank in the world:



My last guy had been killed by giant dragonflies, so this was pretty harrowing.

EDIT: And then I went back underground to get bionics, came back up and every single one vanished. Evidently wading around in sewage and getting a faceful of dynamite makes you hallucinate swarms of dragonflies. That or the monster spawning system for the nightly build is hosed.

Spaceking fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Oct 23, 2013

Tyskil
Jan 28, 2009


Spaceking posted:


EDIT: And then I went back underground to get bionics, came back up and every single one vanished. Evidently wading around in sewage and getting a faceful of dynamite makes you hallucinate swarms of dragonflies. That or the monster spawning system for the nightly build is hosed.

If they were nearby when you went underground its possible that they just got teleported underground, sometimes the game has problems keeping track of who should be where when you switch maps, especially if you do it rather rapidly.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

I don't think so. The game has always had some issues with dynamically spawned monsters, they tend to vanish back into the thin air they came from when you leave their immediate vicinity. Good thing too, or you'd leave permanent death zones around you every time you drive through a swamp.

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

Cardiovorax posted:

I don't think so. The game has always had some issues with dynamically spawned monsters, they tend to vanish back into the thin air they came from when you leave their immediate vicinity. Good thing too, or you'd leave permanent death zones around you every time you drive through a swamp.

I'm assuming zombies aren't dynamic then; well, on static map at least. That would also explain how I'd visit an office building with a wildly fluctuating population of Fungaloids nearby. Sometimes they'd be few, other times the map would be swarmed.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

Well, no, that's why it's called static. Zombies aren't quite spawned at map creation; if you enter the same area twice from a previous save, the actual zombies spawned will be different. There's a limited number of them per chunk, though, and once they're actually spawned, they stick around until you kill them or delete the map.

Everything else is still dynamically spawned based on how much noise you make, which is both why you never run out of enemies to kill outside the cities and why they don't stick around in the meantime. I'm not sure what it is that actually despawns them, though. Occasionally, just saving and reloading the game seems to be enough.

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Spaceking posted:

How exactly does the game calculate whether attacks hit or not? I'm not talking about things that affect the outcome like stats, weight and encumbrance, but the actual calculation itself.

Your encumbrance/weapon/stats/skills are integral to how hit is calculated so it can't be separated.
The calculation itself changes depending on numerous factors but the basic run down is:

* HIT DETERMINATION
* int base_to_hit() - The base number of sides we get in hit_roll().
* Dexterity / 2 + sk_melee
* int hit_roll() - The player's hit roll, to be compared to a monster's or
* player's dodge_roll(). This handles weapon bonuses, weapon-specific
* skills, torso encumberment penalties and drunken master bonuses.

So that's your dexterity/2 + melee skill with the weapon to hit. Then the roll is against the dodge skill of your enemy and that's where all penalties/bonuses are applied. Some choice cuts of the code itself, with many exceptions not listed:

The hit calculation and roll.

int player::base_to_hit(bool real_life, int stat)
{
if (stat == -999)
stat = (real_life ? dex_cur : dex_max);
return 1 + int(stat / 2) + skillLevel("melee");
}

int player::hit_roll()
{
int stat = dex_cur;

Weapon specific checks, cutting and stabbing weapons not listed.

if (weapon.is_bashing_weapon()) {
int bash_bonus = int(skillLevel("bashing") / 3);
if (bash_bonus > best_bonus)
best_bonus = bash_bonus;

If the roll fails different miss calculations.

if (missed) {
int stumble_pen = stumble(*this);
if (is_u) { // Only display messages if this is the player
if (has_miss_recovery_tec())
g->add_msg(_("You feint."));
else if (stumble_pen >= 60)
g->add_msg(_("You miss and stumble with the momentum."));
else if (stumble_pen >= 10)
g->add_msg(_("You swing wildly and miss."));
else
g->add_msg(_("You miss."));

Also missing details on the skill level rolls and player dodging, martial arts styles have their own rule set and I believe it will be changed in 0.9 anyway. In particular dodging is a whole new thing itself and gets quite detailed with how many dodges you're allowed each turn and such. I did turn up some interesting facts for the sleep dodging a few pages back!

//If we're asleep or busy we can't dodge
if (has_disease("sleep") || has_disease("lying_down")) {return 0;}
if (activity.type != ACT_NULL) {return 0;}

The full melee.cpp is here if you really want to look through it.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


GlyphGryph posted:

The only unlockables being considered are things that would be added to a global lore list (think Wesnoth, minimal impact on game beyond allowing you to review what you discovered without having to worry about spoilers like on the wiki, and very mod compatible) and as part of the expanded scenario system (a system designed explicitly to give players goals and things to do for those who want a little more structure, and will eventually incorporate things like our current Defense Mode but is considered "on top of" the main game rather than part of it).

Neither of these will have any effect on regular gameplay, but some scenarios might end up being things you can "unlock" - almost all of these will be challenges though, rather than anything a person would traditionally consider a "reward".

The hoped for standard bearer for this will be the clone labs scenario, where successfully reactivating a clone lab will (globally) unlock the "From the Vats" scenario, where you get to start as a player with no name, no equipment, and a few random mutations, ejected onto the floor in front of a lab cloning vat.

And even then we might decide the whole "unlocking" thing is dumb and just make them available from the get go, but again worried about spoilers and new players having their sense of discovery ruined by a bunch of scenarios describing things they don't know about (like an 'infected by the fungaloid virus' scenario or something). Any "mundane" scenario that doesn't have any spoiler potential is pretty much guaranteed to be unlocked from the getgo, and you will be able to manually unlock the others through a text file or something if you want anyway.

If the world is to have any sort of lore, then it would make sense to have lore-spoilery features locked out until you come across them, so the clone thingy sounds sensible, but yeah anything for which that isn't necessary it doesn't seem important to hide from the player.

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

Strumpie posted:

Your encumbrance/weapon/stats/skills are integral to how hit is calculated so it can't be separated.
The calculation itself changes depending on numerous factors but the basic run down is:

* HIT DETERMINATION
* int base_to_hit() - The base number of sides we get in hit_roll().
* Dexterity / 2 + sk_melee
* int hit_roll() - The player's hit roll, to be compared to a monster's or
* player's dodge_roll(). This handles weapon bonuses, weapon-specific
* skills, torso encumberment penalties and drunken master bonuses.

That's pretty much what I was looking for, thanks. So from what I understand, it doesn't roll multiple times but just changes the amount of sides; aka, the possible numbers you can roll. Interesting way of doing it. The higher the accuracy is, the larger range of numbers possible. The combat roll itself is a test against the enemy dodging the attack, which is pretty common to tabletop games. Can't see many ways of exploiting this other than trying to rack up bonuses though.

Spaceking fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Oct 24, 2013

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

According to what I'm reading in melee.cpp, it actually mostly changes number of dice, not sides.

int numdice = base_to_hit(stat) + weapon.type->m_to_hit + disease_intensity("attack_boost");

Where base_to_hit is
1 + int(stat / 2) + skillLevel("melee");

The stat being your current dexterity (except for certain martial arts styles), and potentially added to by certain styles. To-hit bonuses on weapons apparently work like extra skill, then, making them very useful when starting out.

The number of sides is given as
int sides = 10 - encumb(bp_torso);

So a little encumbrance doesn't lower outcomes that much, but the higher it is, the more a little extra hurts you. d10 vs d8 gives you about 18% lower outcomes, on average, while d2 vs d4 gives you 40% lower outcomes. The lowest it can be is d2.

You then get a bonus to number of dice based on the weapon type. If you're fighting unarmed, the bonus is equal to your unarmed skill - and if your unarmed skill is greater than four, you get an extra bonus on top of that of (unarmed skill - 4).

Bashing weapons can give a bonus of bashing skill / 3, while cutting or piercing weapons give a bonus of cutting or piercing / 2.

The outcome of your hit roll is checked against the monster's dodge, but even if it's higher, you still have a chance of missing equal to 1 in (4 + dex + weapon to-hit bonus) - a calculation oddly unaffected by skill.

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Crits are weird as hell. It makes three checks - one against the weapon, one against your stat, and one against your skill.

For the weapon check, the base chance is 25%, and then it adds 50/(2+i)% for each +1 to-hit of the weapon above 0. So, +1 gives a 42% chance of passing, +2 gives 54%, +3 gives 64%, +4 gives 72%, and I'm not sure if it even gets that high. Fighting unarmed uses half of unarmed skill as to-hit for this calculation.

For the stat check, we start at 25% again, and then adds (21 - i)% for each level of dex above 8. So, dex 9 gives a 37% chance of passing the check, dex 10 a 48% chance, dex 11 a 58% chance, dex 12 a 67% chance, dex 13 75%, dex 14 82%, 15 88%, 16 93%, 17 97%, and 18 for a guaranteed pass.

The skill check is much like the weapon check in terms of mechanics, except it uses the weapon type skill in place of to-hit, and then adds your melee skill / 2.5 on top of that. It takes about a 7 in melee/weapon skill to be essentially guaranteed of passing this.

If all three checks pass, it's a critical hit. Otherwise, if only two pass, it's still a critical hit if you can pass another hit roll against the monster's dodge result * 1.5 - except that it won't be a critical after all, 25% of the time. The latter part is important for everything except unarmed, as there's not much you can do to improve your weapon's to-hit rating.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Spaceking
Aug 27, 2012

One for the road...

Now I know for sure the dragonflies have it out for me:



These fuckers ambushed me in my base twice in one night, even though I'm a decent distance from the coast. I haven't slept in two days and they just keep coming.

At least they don't break down doors and barricades. Hello roadkill :D.

Spaceking fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Oct 24, 2013

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply