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Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


I can do it, but it'd be best if the person doing it was an actual coder and not an sub par monkey like me.

Also, Kevin's speach made me think of Number 6.

"I'm not a number! I'm a free man!"

Who the hell types that much stuff about being a slave? Anyways, not much I can do, but I'm going to keep pushing on Kevin, since no one dev wise seems to want to step up and smack him down. I'll just insinuate that he's a slave and see how high his blood pressure gets.


As far as what a fork needs? Just go with the ideas we've had, really. Add the construction and crafting changes, then maybe work on the new critter stuff to make more robots like we discussed.

edit: He claimes Glyph said that he has final rights on merging? Didn't you say the opposite Glyph? What the hell is going on here? I feel like I'm missing something.

Killer-of-Lawyers fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jan 4, 2014

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The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

This stopped being funny when people started getting weird on Git and all the slave talk cropped up. Now I just sorta wish it would all go away.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


The slave talk is amazing, it's just like minecraft modders. Personally watching a libertarian explode when he finds out he's not John Galt is my raison d'Ítre.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


He seems a bit... mental? I'm not sure that someone who flips out and starts ranting about slavery and leadership at the drop of a hat is necessarily the best person to lead a collaborative project.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



Slave talk? Could someone explain? :stare:

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

The slave talk is amazing, it's just like minecraft modders. Personally watching a libertarian explode when he finds out he's not John Galt is my raison d'Ítre.

This isn't really what I have the issue with; my issue is with the outright taunting and parody posters. It's a bit like pulling back the curtains--we all know there's a storm brewing, and it's gaining in strength every time Granada continues to argue that he's king of the hill. We all know that outside git, people are taking the piss out of how he believes that because he's head honcho, that entitles him a king's powers over a community project. But I don't think Granada knows that, and all pulling back the curtain does is make him realize that we never believed he was the wizard, we just let him have the curtain because that meant he'd keep working the levers that drove the machinations behind the project.

Essentially, people are taking all the fun out of it.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Anticheese posted:

Slave talk? Could someone explain? :stare:

https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/5279#issuecomment-31542468

That's the discussion for the proposed changes, Kevin kind of goes a bit weird after someone suggests that railroading a project isn't leading it.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



..Okay then.

Are there any relatively minor tweaks or fixes to track down? My C++ is pretty drat rusty, but it would be nice to make some positive effort in a goon DDA project.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


^^^^
There's a lot of minor bugs that can be fixed. I had a list but I stopped bothering to report them after it took Kevin 1 and a half months to fix the thread duping bug.

The King of Swag posted:

This isn't really what I have the issue with; my issue is with the outright taunting and parody posters. It's a bit like pulling back the curtains--we all know there's a storm brewing, and it's gaining in strength every time Granada continues to argue that he's king of the hill. We all know that outside git, people are taking the piss out of how he believes that because he's head honcho, that entitles him a king's powers over a community project. But I don't think Granada knows that, and all pulling back the curtain does is make him realize that we never believed he was the wizard, we just let him have the curtain because that meant he'd keep working the levers that drove the machinations behind the project.

Essentially, people are taking all the fun out of it.

I disagree. I mean, as far as drama goes, I'd rather see it on Git where I can read it, than have it happen behind any curtain on whatever terrible IRC or whatnot that place uses. I mean, if it wasn't for the git drama, I wouldn't even know there's a storm or whatever. Even still I don't really believe anything will happen to Kevin. It sounds like somewhere else Glyph said he was the head honcho, according to his posts.

Sure, I suppose it's a bit selfish to want to see all the drama out in the open, but frankly drama and what not is more fun than the game at times like this, so I'm not going to apologize. I like seeing this out in the open, with my popcorn.

Killer-of-Lawyers fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Jan 4, 2014

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

Just so we're clear, I don't want you or anyone else to apologize, and I also don't think Granada is going anywhere, even if he were to continue making a huge fuss over it. Like it or not, he is the project head and as he's clearly demonstrated, he can railroad the project if he wants, and there's little to do about it because of the quantity and quality of work he performs is a necessary part of the project if it's to continue moving forward at the pace it has. That doesn't mean we have to like or even put up with it, but it should be clear that things will go Granada's way if he feels strongly enough about them.

As to your point that you want to see the drama; I do too--that's the entire point of my previous post. I don't see anything wrong with openly arguing with him on Git; people feel strongly about things, he directly opposes them, words are exchanged. But I don't like the openly taunting him and playing it all like a joke, because sooner or later he'll catch on that they're doing it because they want him to react, at which point all the drama goes away period. I'd much rather people argue with him over their real grievances so that he'll continue to respond to it in the future and further try to dig himself out of a ditch with a shovel.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


I dunno, he doesn't seem to have the most self control, and I also think that part of the reason you won't get rid of him is because nobody will want to pick up the role while he's there, because nobody would want to work with him.

If people keep making it clear that they think he's a dolt then maybe he'll throw a shitfit and ragequit, and the project can move on in a more healthy manner. I'd rather have a slower project than one lead by a nutcase. That kind of egotism is poison to a collaborative project.

OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Jan 4, 2014

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


The King of Swag posted:

Just so we're clear, I don't want you or anyone else to apologize, and I also don't think Granada is going anywhere, even if he were to continue making a huge fuss over it. Like it or not, he is the project head and as he's clearly demonstrated, he can railroad the project if he wants, and there's little to do about it because of the quantity and quality of work he performs is a necessary part of the project if it's to continue moving forward at the pace it has. That doesn't mean we have to like or even put up with it, but it should be clear that things will go Granada's way if he feels strongly enough about them.

As to your point that you want to see the drama; I do too--that's the entire point of my previous post. I don't see anything wrong with openly arguing with him on Git; people feel strongly about things, he directly opposes them, words are exchanged. But I don't like the openly taunting him and playing it all like a joke, because sooner or later he'll catch on that they're doing it because they want him to react, at which point all the drama goes away period. I'd much rather people argue with him over their real grievances so that he'll continue to respond to it in the future and further try to dig himself out of a ditch with a shovel.

Yeah, I get what your saying, but it's been my experince that people like him in other communities don't just stop giving drama when they realize what's going on. They tend to explode in the most hilarious manners, and if we're lucky, rage quit.

At this point I think the project could use some fresh air in terms of coders anyways. Either way we'll see what happens. In that sense I agree with Owl. This man is toxic, and even if the project slows down with out him, the best thing that could happen for the long term is him quitting. Besides, it's roguelikes, development times on these things are in the decades anyways.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


Well, some here might be interested - AtomicDryad is considering forking her own branch, so you might have better luck talking to her about it if you want a branch sans Kevin but without having to manage your own.

I talked with Kevin - not sure how much I actually accomplished there, but I tried; I've mostly been completely preoccupied with Kickstarter stuff though. Writing over a dozen handwritten letters is more time consuming than I would have expected, especially with the various... additional steps... I've been adding.

Retiring in a month and a half, 2 weeks of that will be on vacation, so I'll be trying to do what I can to actually get things like a project plan in place, but eh.

Since this is the only thread I ever actually post in here (I mostly just browse), I probably won't be around much after this.

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

In that case, just know that we all truly appreciate the hard work you've put into helping the community and for giving many of the people here a voice in the community, by extending their concerns to others on the team.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


The King of Swag posted:

In that case, just know that we all truly appreciate the hard work you've put into helping the community and for giving many of the people here a voice in the community, by extending their concerns to others on the team.

Seconding this, you do good work on this game and good work keeping the contributors together. It'll be a shame to see you go.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


Was always in the cards though - whole point from the beginning was to bring the game to life again and bring it to people who never heard about it before it died, and I think I did that.

Although right now I am very tempted to stick around and just see if I can't get an Oculus Rift version of the game working...

But no, I need to move on to new projects. A new Oculus Rift based ascii roguelike!

Heheheh.

Killer-of-Lawyers
Apr 22, 2008


GlyphGryph posted:

Well, some here might be interested - AtomicDryad is considering forking her own branch, so you might have better luck talking to her about it if you want a branch sans Kevin but without having to manage your own.

I talked with Kevin - not sure how much I actually accomplished there, but I tried; I've mostly been completely preoccupied with Kickstarter stuff though. Writing over a dozen handwritten letters is more time consuming than I would have expected, especially with the various... additional steps... I've been adding.

Retiring in a month and a half, 2 weeks of that will be on vacation, so I'll be trying to do what I can to actually get things like a project plan in place, but eh.

Since this is the only thread I ever actually post in here (I mostly just browse), I probably won't be around much after this.

Thank's Glyph! I'm glad there's someone who's got a bit better of a track record than goons doing a fork. I think it will be nice to see where it goes. Hopefully people can contribute. I'm glad you engaged us over here. Good luck doing all that kick starter stuff and retiring. I'd imagine the project is a big source of stress on a good day.

If you ever get back into roguelikes after this, feel free to post something about it. We've got a lot of roguelike enthusiasts here. Or other games, really. No need to be a stranger just because you're not in cata anymore, unless you want too.

I'm hopping atomic does a fork, but I suppose it comes down to what people offer. Maybe now's the time to pitch a non curses orientated project, Swag, hint hint. At any rate, just a show of support for her fork would be better than nothing. I think it could do a lot for the game in general.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



From the day or two I spent in their chatroom I got the impression Cataclysm devs/fans tend to be a bit off. I made an offhanded joke about bronies and immediately a dozen people leapt to the defense of My Little Pony.

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

I'll be honest and say that during the few weeks (month?) that I was actively developing stuff, I spent that entire time logged into the Dev IRC because it was an available resource and everyone was incredibly helpful (even Kevin). That entire time, the closest furries came to being brought up, was when freezerbunny and I (RabbitB) were both logged in: someone else logged on and made a joke that there were entirely too many lagomorphs in the IRC chat. Rabbit is my actual name, and I suspect freezerbunny's name has more to do with an in-joke than being a furry. The only contributor I know is a furry (from this thread) is TheDarklingWolf, and I never saw him in IRC.

I don't want to start a witch-hunt, but can you can remember any of the names that were defending My Little Pony? No one particularly struck me as a My Little Pony fan, so I'm actually curious if it's anyone I recognize from hanging around in the dev irc.

Edit: Was this the dev or roleplay IRC room? Cataclysm has both and those are two entirely different things; I just made the assumption that you were talking about the dev room because who the hell would go in a roleplaying irc room for a roguelike?

The King of Swag fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Jan 9, 2014

Infinite Monkeys
Jul 18, 2010

If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.


The King of Swag posted:

Rabbit is my actual name
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmXumtgwtak

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013


The King of Swag posted:

That entire time, the closest furries came to being brought up, was when freezerbunny and I (RabbitB) were both logged in: someone else logged on and made a joke that there were entirely too many lagomorphs in the IRC chat. Rabbit is my actual name, and I suspect freezerbunny's name has more to do with an in-joke than being a furry. The only contributor I know is a furry (from this thread) is TheDarklingWolf, and I never saw him in IRC.

And the term lagomorph doesn't have anything to do with furries anyway, it's just the name of the order that includes rabbits, hares, and pikas. :)

But anyway, I'll probably stop by to update you guys on my other projects at some point or other. Won't be working on roguelikes anytime soon, I think - I've got two projects in the pipeline right now, a web-based multiplayer game heavily inspired by John Carpenter's The Thing (on which progress has been steady but slow), and an Oculus Rift suspense game which I haven't quite started coding yet but which will probably be done first if it is done at all, since it's a much smaller project.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



The King of Swag posted:

I don't want to start a witch-hunt, but can you can remember any of the names that were defending My Little Pony? No one particularly struck me as a My Little Pony fan, so I'm actually curious if it's anyone I recognize from hanging around in the dev irc.

Edit: Was this the dev or roleplay IRC room? Cataclysm has both and those are two entirely different things; I just made the assumption that you were talking about the dev room because who the hell would go in a roleplaying irc room for a roguelike?

It was the dev room. This was all the way back when the Kickstarter campaign first started, so I don't remember any names. I just remember bashing fanfiction and MLP and several people stepping up to defend both (someone went so far as to say a piece of fanfiction was one of the best things they had ever read, I'm almost certain they were talking about that MLP Fallout thing).

I equated grown men watching MLP to grown men playing with action figures and that caused even more controversy with someone saying that playing video games is equivalent to playing with action figures. I decided they were all weirdos and left.

I think the general audience for Cataclysm tends more towards the Bay12 side than the SA side, and Bay12 people are weird.

TOOT BOOT fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Jan 10, 2014

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

GlyphGryph posted:

And the term lagomorph doesn't have anything to do with furries anyway, it's just the name of the order that includes rabbits, hares, and pikas. :)

But anyway, I'll probably stop by to update you guys on my other projects at some point or other. Won't be working on roguelikes anytime soon, I think - I've got two projects in the pipeline right now, a web-based multiplayer game heavily inspired by John Carpenter's The Thing (on which progress has been steady but slow), and an Oculus Rift suspense game which I haven't quite started coding yet but which will probably be done first if it is done at all, since it's a much smaller project.

Given your track record, this makes me excited. I can't wait for the chance to burn innocent friends with a flamethrower.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



I'm surprised no one has mentioned whales is working on Cataclysm 2:

https://github.com/Whales/Cataclysm2

reignonyourparade
Nov 15, 2012


It was brought up a while back and I believe the general response was "well if he actually sticks with it that could be interesting."

tooterfish
Jul 13, 2013



A bird in the hand, etc.

Unless the game is watching a github get updated, in which case I've been doing it wrong.

Turtlicious
Sep 17, 2012

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS


What's a good square font that isn't too big, and also doesn't take up half the screen?

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:



What's happening in the experimental builds at the moment? Has the book-ifying been toned down?

Strumpie
Dec 8, 2012


Turtlicious posted:

What's a good square font that isn't too big, and also doesn't take up half the screen?

I use Topaz-8 at 12x12.
On a 16:10 monitor it's small yet legible and spaced quite nicely for a square font.

Anticheese posted:

What's happening in the experimental builds at the moment? Has the book-ifying been toned down?

I'm not up to date on the experimental, waiting for the next major release or for more significant progress to be made. :iiam:

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Anticheese posted:

What's happening in the experimental builds at the moment? Has the book-ifying been toned down?

Crafting from containers is in (yay!)
Booking has been toned down a bit as far as I can tell. I have autolearned some recipes that I later found in a book - either you autolearn some book recipes once your skill gets sufficiently high, or some stuff was unbooked.
Mutation is getting a significant overhaul. There's a bunch of new mutant species, and now if you mutate too far in a category you hit 'threshold' and are locked into that category forever (but can get post-threshold mutations).

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


The Lone Badger posted:

Mutation is getting a significant overhaul. There's a bunch of new mutant species, and now if you mutate too far in a category you hit 'threshold' and are locked into that category forever (but can get post-threshold mutations).

Did they balance the categories so that they're more evenly desirable? Is there any visible indicator of what category you're in and whether you've hit threshold, or is it all still guesswork based on what you've consumed or encountered so far?

Strudel Man
May 19, 2003
ROME DID NOT HAVE ROBOTS, FUCKWIT

Tuxedo Catfish posted:

Did they balance the categories so that they're more evenly desirable? Is there any visible indicator of what category you're in and whether you've hit threshold, or is it all still guesswork based on what you've consumed or encountered so far?
I know even as of a while ago, you could tell what category you were in by the dreams you'd get.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Strudel Man posted:

I know even as of a while ago, you could tell what category you were in by the dreams you'd get.

Crap, I'd heard that before but had completely forgotten about it. Thanks!

Doug Lombardi
Jan 18, 2005


The Lone Badger posted:

Crafting from containers is in (yay!)
Booking has been toned down a bit as far as I can tell. I have autolearned some recipes that I later found in a book - either you autolearn some book recipes once your skill gets sufficiently high, or some stuff was unbooked.
Mutation is getting a significant overhaul. There's a bunch of new mutant species, and now if you mutate too far in a category you hit 'threshold' and are locked into that category forever (but can get post-threshold mutations).

How do you get locked into it?

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Doug Lombardi posted:

How do you get locked into it?

Mutate a lot in a specific category and you can get pushed over the threshold (may require serum). You get a special mutation called threshold - X which cannot be removed with Purifier. Somewhat confusing explanation in this thread.

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



Did they ever add 3D?

The King of Swag
Nov 10, 2005

To escape the closure,
is to become the God of Swag.

TOOT BOOT posted:

Did they ever add 3D?

No; I honestly don't know who's supposed to be working on it either.

Anticheese
Feb 13, 2008

$60,000,000 sexbot
:rodimus:





Passive hunting at its finest.

Jack Trades
Nov 30, 2010



Has anyone updated tilesets yet?
I'm used to play with Deons tileset, both Whales and DDA versions.

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The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007



Waldo's is the best at the moment, in my opinion.
Raga's would be good too but it's got too many #s for me at the moment.

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