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Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

hyphz posted:

Oh, I remember that book. The one snag was that the roles were defined in the story/movie/adventure/whatever and because of the bidding system, it was possible you'd lose the auction and end up with a completely mismatched role. Even in the starting scenario make your big buff strongman actor, lose the role auction and end up as a kung-fu ballerina with now barely-average stats in Strength and Agility because the role and actor didn't stack anywhere.

Capfalcon posted:

...So you can figure out where you went so right?

The concept definitely sounds like a nice idea for a roleplaying game. Just needs a better system with rules for getting typecast, remakes/reboots, starring in movies that just exist to exploit obscure German tax laws, and getting a bidding bonus because the director just so happens to be your wife/husband.

(And wasn't Hong Kong Action Theater the only iteration of pre-BESM3e Tri-Stat where opponents actually compare their MoS of their attack and defense rolls? That's at least something.)

Alaois posted:

Yo this is from like fuckin 8 pages back or so, but I'm pretty sure you're talking about me, and you're vastly overstating what happened. Diaz put out a stupid "weh my art sucks everyone compliment and validate me" pity party tweet, I thought it'd be funny to respond with actual criticism, he threw a hissy fit and blocked me, but not before screencapping my tweet to complain about it for another 2 tweets. It was one of his followers who decided I was an art teacher(???????????? I am the furthest thing from an art teacher you can find) and nobody doxxed me.

Oh well, the internet loves to exaggerate a bit.

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Lynx Winters
May 1, 2003

Borderlawns: The Treehouse of Pandora

Doresh posted:

The concept definitely sounds like a nice idea for a roleplaying game. Just needs a better system with rules for getting typecast, remakes/reboots, starring in movies that just exist to exploit obscure German tax laws, and getting a bidding bonus because the director just so happens to be your wife/husband.

(And wasn't Hong Kong Action Theater the only iteration of pre-BESM3e Tri-Stat where opponents actually compare their MoS of their attack and defense rolls? That's at least something.)


Yeah, if the defender's roll was lower than their DCV but had a lower margin of success than the attacker, they took half damage. Also, the stat costs got higher as the stat increased rather than being a flat cost per stat point, so that also kinda helped things from getting out of hand. Damage was also universally lower than BESM2, so fights didn't become rocket tag. Bidding for roles was probably the worst thing about it, and it was made worse by the fact that your bidding points were also your fate points and your XP.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Lynx Winters posted:

Yeah, if the defender's roll was lower than their DCV but had a lower margin of success than the attacker, they took half damage. Also, the stat costs got higher as the stat increased rather than being a flat cost per stat point, so that also kinda helped things from getting out of hand. Damage was also universally lower than BESM2, so fights didn't become rocket tag. Bidding for roles was probably the worst thing about it, and it was made worse by the fact that your bidding points were also your fate points and your XP.

Yeah, now I remember that from Tri-Stat dx. Scaling stat costs sound good and all (especially since they are hilariously underpriced), but I'm not sure how this works if you stat stats from different sources.

Nimsim
Oct 30, 2006
[

Edit: sorry, accidental phone post!

Nimsim fucked around with this message at 23:02 on Nov 1, 2015

Poland Spring
Sep 11, 2005

I heartily disagree, and furthermore,

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

Interesting if true.

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007




Spoiler that poo poo man.

Mr.Misfit
Jan 10, 2013

The time for
SkellyBones
has come!
Is this some sort of inside joke?

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Mr.Misfit posted:

Is this some sort of inside joke?

It was until right now.

]

Falconier111
Jul 18, 2012

S T A R M E T A L C A S T E

theironjef posted:

It was until right now.

]

Thank Jesus Christ.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas posted:

Warning!

You know, I just realized I don't just copy and paste these intros. I copy them down by hand every time.

Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas posted:

Violence and the Supernatural

Granted, sometimes these warnings are slightly different, too. They're not always exactly the same.

Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas posted:

The fictional World of Rifts® is violent, deadly, and filled with supernatural monsters. Other dimensional beings, often referred to as "demons", torment, stalk and prey on humans. Other aliens life forms, monsters, gods and demigod, as well as magic, insanity and war are all elements in this book.

I wonder what a Rifts book really has to warn people about, though?

Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas posted:

Some parents may find the violence and supernatural elements of the game inappropriate for young readers/players. We suggest parental discretion.

I guess "Warning! Faulty mechanics and grammatical errors" might not have the same ring about it.

Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas posted:

Please note that none of us at Palladium Books® condone or encourage the occult, the practice of magic, the use of drugs, or violence.

Things they do condone and encourage: bad editing, using 1981-era rules, and an excess of skulls in mecha design.



Part 1: "There are so many cool and bizarre things one can put in the underwater realm of Rifts© that we could easily fill three books and still have more ideas."

So! This is Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas. It's actually the sixteenth book in the game line, and was the fourth book C.J. Carella worked on for the line. No book goes without Siembieda's two cents, of course, and there are some notable concepts from Steve Sheiring (Lemuria, Gene-Splicers), Kevin Long (the Triax Navy), and Julius Rosenstein (???). We get an introduction apologizing for delays, claiming that they were going to do this in 1993 when they handed it to unnamed writers, but that "The ideas seemed pedestrian and didn't have the flavor or magic of Rifts."

The magic of Rifts. :v:


This book later claims this vehicle is used by a particular race, only the guy in front clearly isn't of that race, so he's just a convenient D-Bee ally. Rifts!

So, as Kevin is wont to do, he rolled up his sleeves to write the book himself!... which he didn't have the time to manage, so CJ comes up and is like "hey, I could contribute and take some of the weight off your shoulders". And, then, a real insight into the writing process at Palladium:

Rifts World Book Seven: Underseas posted:

As it approached my designated time to write Rifts Underseas, Kevin Long started to submit concept drawings for various submarines, ships and armor. "Do you think you might include Triax and the NGR in this book?" he asked. "I might ... yeah, probably;" I mumbled. "Good," he said with a grin, "what do you think of these?" and he laid before me a pile of incredible sketches.

Granted, letting Long draw whatever he wanted was probably a good policy for Siembieda to maintain. Similarly, there's a real artist-leading-the-writer feel to parts of this book, with Vince Martin and Randy Post playing a big part in the concepts tying this book together.


A critter not actually statted in this book.

He notes that there will be a follow-up book called Rifts Lemuria written by Steve Sheiring in 1996. Sheiring would go on to not only fail to write the book, but to rob Palladium, and the project would lie fallow until finally seeing release in 2012, sixteen years after its projected release, and eighteen years and twenty-five World Books after Underseas.

A slight delay! :toot:

Next: :siren: Return of the Tarn. :siren:

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

Halloween Jack posted:

Masterbook is a pretty fiddly loving system derived from TORG, though thankfully not nearly as fiddly as TORG itself. The only thing it really has going for it is a unified action resolution chart that actually handles different kinds of damage and advantage/disadvantage in action scenes in a pretty elegant way. I might do a brief review of it on the way to reviewing one or two of the games that used it, but it's a pretty boring set of rules.

Man, I really need to get back to the Torg review...

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer

I always did love that cover. The statting of the guys on it (and many other things in it) were a point where I really started feeling that artist-leading vibe from Rifts books. I was really excited for Underseas. I mean, cool magical cyborg undersea adventures! The only thing that could be better for high school me would be a book about Japan! :getin:

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!



Are there stats for Pod Six?

Mr.Misfit
Jan 10, 2013

The time for
SkellyBones
has come!

quote:

[...][...]

You have to hand it to them, despire their awful interior, that cover is is really frikkin metal.
And why, oh why is it always that great art goes together with really bad writing?

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Mr.Misfit posted:

You have to hand it to them, despire their awful interior, that cover is is really frikkin metal.
And why, oh why is it always that great art goes together with really bad writing?

Kevin Sembieda understands that books are judged by their covers and budgets appropriately.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

Kai Tave posted:

Kevin Sembieda understands that books are judged by their covers and budgets appropriately.

It's why Siembieda has John Zeleznik's phone number on speed dial in case he needs a book cover post-haste.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015
I hope Rifts has an Aquaman class.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

He notes that there will be a follow-up book called Rifts Lemuria written by Steve Sheiring in 1996. Sheiring would go on to not only fail to write the book, but to rob Palladium, and the project would lie fallow until finally seeing release in 2012, sixteen years after its projected release, and eighteen years and twenty-five World Books after Underseas.

A slight delay! :toot:

Time is relative.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Are they still making Rifts books? :ohdear:

JohnnyCanuck
May 28, 2004

Strong And/Or Free
Believe it or not (87% chance to believe), they are!

Banana Man
Oct 2, 2015

mm time 2 gargle piss and shit
So has anyone actually ran a Rifts game? I had the books once upon a time but a cat barfed all over them thats my rifts story

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer
Back in high school we ran/played several Rifts games though none of them lasted a very long time. In adulthood, no, no, we don't do that anymore.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Banana Man posted:

So has anyone actually ran a Rifts game? I had the books once upon a time but a cat barfed all over them thats my rifts story

I sincerely hope you treated that cat royally for the rest of its life, for saving you.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Nessus posted:

Are there stats for Pod Six?

Who cares? They was jerks.

Doresh posted:

I hope Rifts has an Aquaman class.

Kind of!

Banana Man posted:

So has anyone actually ran a Rifts game?

Yes.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Banana Man posted:

So has anyone actually ran a Rifts game? I had the books once upon a time but a cat barfed all over them thats my rifts story

The story of my Titan cyberknight Dahmer and his mighty adventures literally lasted me from 9th grade to senior year.

JackMann
Aug 11, 2010

Secure. Contain. Protect.
Fallen Rib
One of the guys I know at work is big into Rifts. However, I'm pretty sure it's mostly because he hasn't played any other RPGs. Like, not even D&D. I'm kind of thinking of getting him into my Savage Worlds game when he gets back from deployment.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Awesome!


The Dark Eye


Magic Spells

As spells in TDE are essentially just another big ol' list of skills, casting them requires as a succesful check, with failure still costing you half the Astral Points it would've otherwise cost. Using anything but direct damage spells on a target adds the target's magic resistance (which is usually 0-3 for must guys and noticably higher for other spellcasters) to the check. Trying to affect multiple targets at once adds a penalty equal to the highest magic resistance plus the number of targets, so either everyone is affected, or nobody. Not particularly granular, is all I'm saying.

A successful spell will usually have its effect and/or duration increased based on the Margin of Success, though the writers apparently weren't too sure just how they affect each spell. Pretty much every re-release of the Liber Cantiones (aka spellbook supplement, be it a single hardcover or a softcover in a boxed set) and the following errata tends to tinker around with the exact effect of MoS.

(Warning: TDE spells are traditionally written in all caps, and I'll stick to it so you get the full TDE experience. The list is also not exhaustive, as I'v glanced over a lot of boring/uninteresting stuff.)

Hexalogies

TDE's fancy-pants name for elemental magic, because there are six elements (fire, water, air, ore, humus, ice). While each spell with the elemental tag can theoretically exist for each of the elements, in practice the overwhelming majority of these spell will default to one of the elements, with the other versions either only known to druids (and probably crystallomancers), being forgotten in the mists of time or straight up not existing at all. There are however magic research rules that - among other things - led you create a variant of an existing elemental spell with the element changed. This probably means that these spells do in fact exist in all possible variations, but the NPCs who came up with them kept them to themself to blindside potential adventuring parties.

Metamagic

A new system introduced in 4th edition allows spellcasters to boost their spells in various ways by adding penalties to their check. Things like increased range or duration, stuff you'd be familiar with if you know 3rd edition D&D. A neat addition to this comes in the form of spell modifications, which are little tricks and variations unique to the spell in question and also add to the overall check penalty. Penalties are overall pretty hefty, so don't go wild with this stuff.

A kind of metamagic has existed long before 4th edition in the form of two spells: REVERSALIS REVIDUM reverses the effect of the next spell cast if it makes sense (like turning a buff into a debuff or vice versa, or turning an elemental spell into the opposing element), while INFINITUM EVERMORE makes spells with a duration last forever (if you can't already do that with the original spell).
It should be noted that any spell with a permanent duration or effect requires the caster to sacrifice a fraction of the Astral Points spent permanently. This wasn't too much of an issue in older editions were your Astral Point pool increased with each level, and 4th edition just lets you buy back those "permanently" lost Astral Points (which doesn't count towards the maximum amount of additonal Astral Points you can buy, and is in fact the cheaper option).

And while where at spell durations, spells that don't require constant concentration (of which there aren't a whole lot) last until they expire, with little the spellcaster can do to end them prematurely.

Damage Spells

While being a blaster in TDE is pretty flashy and awe-inspiring, it also kinda blows. There aren't really a whole lot of AoE damage spells, and their cost in Astral Points pretty much always equals the amount of damage they deal. Though while you can turn an attacking bandit into a pile of scorched bones, this can easily cost you around 2/3rds of your starting Astral pool. Though you can eventually buy that up to around 80 (provided to max out three stats, which costs a ton of XP and time to do), and there is technically no upper limit as spellcasters can perform a special mediation once per year that adds maybe 1 or 2 Astral Points permanently (which is probably the main excuse for metaplot NPCs to have essentially limitless Astral Points), you can't just blast a group of ogres into oblivion, let alone a dragon. What you can do however is soften up or finish off opponents.
The other downside to "Spell costs equals damage" is that, since damage spells usually deal a handful of dice in damage, the exact cost is a bit unpredictable. What happens if you deal more damage than you have Astral Points left? Well, this usually means the spell fails outright, unless your skill rank reaches a certain level (from which point on the spell will just deal your remaining Astral Points in damage) or the damage depends on your Margin of Success (which also just uses your remaining Astral Points as a base, because failing your spell because you succeeded too well would be both incredibly silly and hilarious at the same time).

(The only exception to the "cost equals damage" rule are spells cast by Borbaradian blood mages. They make separate rolls for damage and cost because Borbarad was apparently a big fan of randomness)

  • ARROW OF [ELEMENT]: For an arcane archer vibe and naturally most popular with elves. It simply lets you charge up an arrow with any of the six elements as long as you have some of that element around to dip the arrow tip into.
  • FULMINICTUS THUNDERBOLT: The magic missile of TDE, known to pretty much every fullcaster class and a few lesser spellcasters. Its name sounds way flashier than it actually is, though. The spellcaster just points their fist at someone to be hurt by invisible magic. Damage is straight up 2d6 + your MoS in Damage Points as opposed to Hit Points (aka the spell ignores armor), which is a pretty sweet deal that scales quite nicely while staying relatively affordable. The only downside is that the spell can't cause wounds. A handy modification deals AoE Stamina-only damage, while a pure utility modification causes it to kill every vermin in the vicinity for lice-less nights.
  • IGNIFAXIUS FLAMEBEAM: The other quintessential TDE damage spell, used by mages, druids and crystallomancers. It lets them shoot out a beam of concentrated fire (or another element if they've learned any of the less common variations) dealing between 1 to the caster's spell rank in d6s, allowing him to adjust the damage and cost as the situation demands. The writers went pretty wild with the amount of modifications for this spell: You can shoot out a narrower beam to make wounds more likely, and there are three different ways to give this AoE capabilities (give the beam a cone-shape, just split the damage between multiple targets, or cast two different beams at the same time).
  • IGNISPHAERO FIREBALL: Made famous by the secluded mages of Drakonia who bragged with this spell after it has been tought being lost forever. It's a rather straight-forward AoE spell aside from the fact that the fireball has movement speed and can be mentally controlled by the spellcaster. Unless you use a modification to speed it up, it is about as fast as a slow dwarf, so anyone who didn't put on too much armor can outrun it. It's a like a very slow bazooka or something.
  • KULMINATIO BALL LIGHTNING: A rare spell that is strangely like a Borbaradian spell in that the damage deal and the astral points are two different rolls, though it isn's really one of those forbidden Borbarad spells. What it is is a ball of lightning moving at random speeds towards a foe, dealing a rather swingy amount of damage (d20 + 5 or so). Pretty nifty against guys in metal armor, as their Armor Protection does not only do nothing, but is also added to the damage in question. A modification of this spell turns it into chain lightning.
  • REST, HEARTBEAT!: A very, very nasty spell invented by Borbarad and used by his brand of blood magic practicioners. The spell causes a massive heart attack that kills very quickly (1d20 in the first turn, 2d20 in the next and so on; and no, they just have to pay once). Just never let a Borbaradian spellcaster touch you.
  • WRATH OF THE ELEMENTS: A druid-only spell (but probably still the most common AoE damage spell outside of IGNIFAXIUS modifications) that has the spellcaster grab some of the desired element, throw it at his foes and have it turn into an elemental inferno. Damage his however split between the targets, which is a bit unfortunate.

Honorable mention goes to AEROFUGU VACUUM, another Drakonian spell that sucks the air out of a room-size area for a couple rounds, causing Stamina damage to anyone inside and really messing up air elementals. As this is an elemental spell, a crafty spellcaster PC could come up with an ore version to effectively demolish walls and buildings cleanly and easily.

Save-or-Suck Spells

There are quite a lot of those:

  • BANNBALADIN: A mind control spell that makes the target think of the caster as a friend, giving you an instant temporary BFF if the MoS is high enough. Useful to confuse enemy ranks and make diplomatic and investigative adventures much easier.
  • BLACK AND RED: A Borbaradian spell causing steady damage and reducing physical stats, essentially a magical disease.
  • BLACK TERROR: Another Borbaradian spell that makes its victims freak out at the color black.
  • CORPOFESSO LIMB PAIN: Instant fatigue (aka a general debuff to physical stuff) plus a pretty big drop in Strength (making fighter dudes a bit useless). Nice.
  • CORPOFRIGO COLD SHOCK: A general debuff spell that is a bit overshadowed by one further down.
  • CURSE OF PESTILENCE: Lets you get just about any nasty disease you want on a target. Fun times.
  • DESINTEGRATUS POWDERDUST: Disintegrates inorganic matter in its path. Handy to disarm people and getting in and out of buildings.
  • DYSPNOEA: Cuts the victim's maximum Stamina in half and raises the caster's maximum by around half of that for a day. Not terribly useful unless you plan a career as a wrestler. Sure, there are a couple spells that mainly deal Stamina damage, but any spellcaster who knows those probably also knows at least the FULMINICTUS.
  • EYE OF THE LIMBUS: The ultimate dick move. This spell creates a hole into the Limbus (the space between Spheres aka dimensions), sucking anything in within range, including people if they fail one or more Strength checks (depending on distance). The caster can pay additional Astral Points to add as a penalty ot these checks (which can quickly make succeeding at these checks impossible short of a natural 1) and increase the damage the vicitms suffer when they get sucked into the hole. This damage is probably not enough to kill them, but being stranded in the Limbus is pretty much a death sentence unless a spellcaster with the right dimension-travelling spells got sucked in as well or you just happen to run into a Limbus inhabitant who isn't an Eldritch demon (and the place is pretty darn big, so that's quite unlikely). And if the caster used a certain modification with a pretty high penalty, the hole instead sucks people directly into the Netherhells. Sweet. Oh, and using EYE OF THE LIMBUS while inside the Limbus adds a random penalty to the check and opens a hole that can lead into any random place in all of existance.
  • GRANITE AND MARBLE: Slowly turns the target into the nearest type of rock for a couple weeks, or even permanently with a modification.
  • HORRIPHOBUS DREAD: It's like BANNBALADIN, except the target becomes more afraid of you instead of more BBFish.
  • IMPERAVI COMPULSION: A very powerful mind control, though limited to a single action. Suicidal stuff or things that go way too far against the target's ethics allow additional attempts to break free, though I guess stuff like "Jump out of the window!" rarely leave more time for a single attempt.
  • MAGIC COMPULSION: A geas, basically.
  • MAGICAL HEIST: Cast from your target's Astral pool.
  • MAY AGONY TEAR YOU APART!: This one causes Stamina damage and enough pain to prevent the target from doing anything of use, essentially denying him actions for several rounds.
  • MAY LIGHTNING FIND YOU: The fastest spell around at just 1 action (aka half round; even other spells meant for combat require 2-4 actions). It's a mental flashbang only the target can perceive, adding a penalty to just about everything he does for a number of rounds equal to the MoS. Said penalty used to be equal to the spellcaster's rank, but that got changed into the MoS for less brokenness. In both cases, Attack and Parry count as a single pool and are both only penalized by half. It is also not possible to target multiple people with this. Still, a very fast and rather cheap debuff for everything the target does? There's really no reason to not have this spell in your list, especially since pretty much ever spellcaster class has access to it.
  • MAY MEMORY LEAVE YOU!: Causes a memory loss of recent events. Probably a fun way to troll people.
  • MAY PANIC OVERCOME YOU!: A rather tame Borbaradian spell that causes the vicitms to flee in terror. Unlike every other multi-target spell, this one isn't penalized by the highest Magic Resistance + number of targets, but instead just affects anyone whose Magic Resistance is lower than the MoS. Why isn't this the norm?
  • MEMORABIA FALSIFIR: A bit like the above memory loss spell, but it can erase any single specific memory.
  • NIGHTMARE SHAPE: A druid-only spell that fools the target into seeing the druid as the thing he fears the most, which will just freeze him in terror for a couple rounds before he has to make a Courage check to avoid fainting. As this can be used against multiple targets, it would be a neat encounter-ending spell on par with old edition D&DSleep. Unfortunately, the spell takes around 5 turns to cast, so it takes a bit of preparation.
  • PARALYSIS STIFF AS ROCK: Paralyzes someone for a few turns, though they become immune to damage for the entire duration because they get encased in some kind of crystal rock stuff.
  • PLUMBUMBARUM HEAVY BREATHING: A nice debuff to Attack and Initiative. A modification also makes casting spells with somatic components (aka most of them) harder.
  • RESPONDAMI TRUTH COMPULSION: Forces the target to answer a yes-or-no question truthfully. There goes your murder mystery adventure.
  • SALANDER MUTANDER: Polymorph something into a useless tiny animal or something.
  • STRAP AND CORD: An interesting movement debuff preventing the target from leaving the area the caster has walked around during the casting.
  • YOUR OWN FEARS TORMENT YOU!: This rather descriptive spell effectively shuts down the target for hours, and it's fast enough to be useful in combat.

Knave Spells

Just had to put these in their own list as they are exclusive to Knaves and benefit from the Knaves' ability to ignore Magic Resistances below a certain threshold they can increase with not-Feats. Most of these are Save-or-Suck spells that are both hilarious and useful.

Knaves are also like Final Fantasy Blue Mages in that they can learn spells from other classes and have them instantly turn into Knave spells by just observing the spell often enough. Anyone else has to learn non-class spells normally (which usually requires to learn a whole new caster representation in the progress) and then spend months trying to tweak the spell to fit into your own representation.

  • COME KOBOLD COME: Summons a Kobold if one is nearby. As they are omnipotent pranksters, he will probably be pretty useful unless he decides to be a dick.
  • FIDDLESTICKS: Anyone in the area starts speaking in a random gibberish (or more specifically: everyone rolls a d20 and you can only understand and talk to people who rolled the same number). This also affects written words.
  • FOUND!: Gives the away the location of any object the Knave knows himself or has been told enough about it by someone who does know it. There goes a couple investigative adventures.
  • KOBOLD GIFT: Allows the Knave to mask one object as something else in the eyes of the target, like a frog for a bag of gold. For some reason, masking coins as a more valuable coin or a different currency requires a modification.
  • INFLATED [AND] LIFTED: Makes the target inflate like a balloon, slowly lifting off for a few turns before landing just as slowly. The latter part is probably there because knaves aren't allowed to kill, though I suppose the rest of the party can still use the human balloon as target practice. As this prevents the target from casting any kind of spell (or really doing anything), it is the perfect way to shut down an enemy caster. Sure, the mental flashbang is faster (1 action as opposed to 7), but non-Knave spells have to deal with the enemy caster's full Magic Resistance, which tends to be much higher than other targets.
  • KLUDGE AND BLOOPER: Now this is a fun one. Makes it so that nobody in the current combat can actually make normal attacks. Everything is either a fantastical crit if it hits or a hilariously embarassing fumble if it doesn't. None of the crits and fumbles deal actual damage however, so the combatants will eventually stop fighting, wondering wtf is going on.
  • LAUGH YOURSELF HEALTHY: Restores Life Points through laughter. Might just be usable as a debuff in combat, though I'm not sure.
  • NUDIE: The victim becomes nacked, naturally dropping whatever armor and weapons he was packing.
  • POETS AND THINKERS: Essentially turns the target into a character from Goethe's Faust, for he is only able to speak in rhymes. This isn't one of those "Automaticaly speaks in rhymes whether he wants to or not"-curses you usually see, however. If he can't come up with a rhyme for the things he wants to say, he can't speak anything at all. Not sure how that interferes with spellcasting, seeing how spell names used to be actual rhymes that have most likely been chanted by the casters.

And those are the most notable Knave spells. There are a few others for various kinds of pranks and disguises.

Buff Spells

  • ATTRIBUTO: A 1 hour buff to a specific stat. Used to be a buch of separate spells for each stat until 4th edition streamlined this (now here's a first). This spell is interesting in that the third stat involved in the spell check is always the stat to be buffed. Not sure how this affects the maximum possible rank for this spell (which depends on the highest of the three stats).
  • ARMATRUTZ: Mage Armor. No spellcaster should be without it. You can theoretically reach Armor Protection equal to a set of full plate armor (aka 12), though that's highly unlikely as that the spell's cost is equal to the desired Armor Protection squared (minus the MoS, with a minimum of 4). Naturally, good ol' Galotta had no problem paying the 120-144 Astral Points required for his ARMATRUTZ he was packing in his final stand. For some reason, that adventure also noted how the spell doesn't work if you stab the mage very slowly, which isn't anywhere in the actual description. Guess the writer of that adventure was a fan of Dune?
  • AXXELERATUS LIGHTNING FORM: The haste spell. Like modern D&D iterations of it, it doesn't give you additional actions (which would probably break the wizard action economy even worse than in D&D), it just grants improved speed, combat stats (including damage) and a penalty to an enemy's Parry, making it a pretty good buff to have on your main fighter dude. There's a modification that let's you talk faster, which is the only way to speak the Kobold tongue unless you're a Kobold or Knave.
  • DUPLICATUS DOUBLE IMAGE: Creates one or more after-images of the target. The more he has, the less likely others are to hit the real one.
  • EAGLE EYE LYNX EAR: Your general perception buff.
  • FACLON EYE MASTER SHOT: Just adds a juicy bonus to yur next shot or throw.
  • FORTIFEX ARCANE WALL: Creates an invisible wall that blocks anything aside from spells.
  • FROSTINESS WARRIOR HEART: Adds some slight Armor Protection, but its mostly there to ignore wound effects.
  • GARDIANUM MAGIC SHIELD: A force field that absorbs magical damage effects. A modification also turns it into an actual shield.
  • KARNIFILIO RAGE: Makes the target go magically berserk, which can have its drawbacks.
  • INVERCANO MIRROR TRICK: Try to reflec some spells (mostly damage and transformation stuff) back at the caster. Metaplot NPCs love this one.
  • SENSATTACCO MASTER STROKE: Imrpoves your crit chance. AFAIK the only way to do that in this game.


Other Helpful Spells

  • ABEVENUM PURE FOOD: Not only makes food edible to a point it removes any poison and even reverses rot, but modifications also led you make stuff edible that is not immediately deadly or dangerous (like making sea water drinkable), but it can also prevent any poison from working on the food for a coupple hours (making it useful at court). The exact effect can vary depending on the caster: Stuff that is edible for a lizardman is not necessarily healthy for anyone else, and elves apparently also despise alcohol because their spell turns wine into grape juice.
  • ACCURATUM MAGIC NEEDLE: Changes the appearance of a piece of clothing till the next winter solstice. Modifications let you create a piece of clothing out of raw materials, or make the change permanent - which combos nicely with the modifcation that lets you change the fabric itself. D&D wizards become rich through salt. TDE mages buy cheap line and make silk dresses out of it.
  • ADAMANTIUM ORE STRUCTURE: Triples an object's durability for a couple minutes, after which it will drop to half of of the original durability. Modifications let you prevent the durability drop, change the surface of the object to look like a completely different material, or boost a weapon. Crystallomancers can make this permanent.
  • ANALYS ARCANE STRUCTURE: The Read Magic spell. The higher your MoS, the more infos you get from the magical object/creature you're analyzing.
  • ANIMATIO MUTE SERVANT: A very neat spell with an interesting way of casting it: You take the object to animate, repeat the same action with it 7 times and come up with a trigger (like finger snapping). After all this is done, the object will repeat the action every time you do the trigger. You can "record" multiple different commands with different triggers, and the spell lasts months, so it's pretty handy overall. There is sadly nothing about using this in combat by teaching a weapon multiple kinds of attacks and parries.
  • APPLICATUS MAGIC STORAGE: Stores a single spell inside an object and link it to a trigger. The base version without modifications is of mild usage, as the spell is only stored for a day and will go off regardless of the actual trigger if anyone picks up the object.
  • ARCANOVI ARTEFACT: The spell by which all magic items are created. In short: Your typical magic item in TDE is essentially a D&D wand, allowing you to cast one or more different spells around half a dozen times, after which you might be able to recharge it if the creator of the item didn't go the cheap route.
  • AUREOLUS GOLDEN LUSTER: Makes an object shine like gold. That's it.
  • AURIS NASUS OCULUS: The go-to illusion spell, covering any combination of fake images, smells or sounds, you need a modification to have the images move, and adding either a taste or touch compononent adds a monstrous penalty to the check.
  • BALSAM SALABUNDE: The bread-and-butter healing spell. In fact the only healing spell aside from that knave one that makes you laugh and WITCH SALIVA (which is exactly what it says on the tin, so it's pretty gross). Like all healling effects in this game (aside from a reversed FULMINICTUS), this one spreads its healing effect over a period of time (a few minutes, to be exact). So if you don't put enough Astral Points into this one, your patient my just die before he is healed enough. A modification lets you shortly heal beyond the target's maximum Life Points, while another one with a very hefty penalty turns this into a regeneration effect that heals a lot faster. Both are pretty handy to beef up before combat.
  • BEAR REST HIBERNATION: This is an odd one. The caster falls into a deep magical sleep (lasting days, or even months with a modification) during which he is immune to cold, starvation and even a lack of air. As the caster is unconcious during all of this, he can't wake up before the spell ends. Mostly used by elves who hate winter.
  • CALDIOFRIGO HOT AND COLD: Messes around with the temperature of an object, or an entire area with modifications.
  • CHAMAELOINI MIMICRY: The predator cloaking device spell. Only really works when standing still or moving very slowly.
  • EAGLE WINGS WOLF FORM: Wildshape. You keep your mental stats and take over all the physical stuff from the animal you turn into (including Life Points and combat stats, making this not really a good combat buff in the long run because animals aren't the best fighters around, though being a bear is always helpful). Spellcasting doesn't work as an animal, nor does talking unless you've turned into a raven or parrot or something. Your clothes and equipment also doesn't fuse into your animal body like it does in D&D, so your left completely naked if the spell ends. This spell is most commonly used by elves, who like turning into their "soul animal" (*cough* otherkin *cough*).[
  • GLIMPSE INTO THE BEING: Gives you general informations about the targeted create, like something out of Final Fantasy.
  • GLIMPSE INTO THE THOUGHTS: Mind probe. There goes your murder mystery adventure again.
  • FLIM FLAM SPARKLE: Your magical light spell, which also doubles as dancing lights.
  • FORAMEN FORAMINOR: That one spell any fantasy game needs that makes the lockpicking spell superfluous.
  • IMPERSONA MASK IMAGE: Change your face.
  • INCORPOREAL TRAVEL: Your astral projection spell.
  • INVISIBLE HUNTER: Makes it very hard to notice the caster, but any kind of concentrated action ends the spell immediately.
  • KLARUM PURUM: Get rid of poison.
  • MOTORICUS: It's telekinesis.
  • OBJECTOFIXO: Turn any object into an Unmoving Rod.
  • PENETRITZEL DEPTH GAZE: Look through walls.
  • PERCEIVE SOUL ANIMAL: Uncover the target's inner fursona.
  • PLANASTRALE OTHERWORLD: Opens a portal to the limbus and out again. Pretty handy to have just an case someone sucks you into there.
  • SOLIDIRID WAY OF LIGHT: Allows you to create your very own Bifröst.
  • SOUL TREK: Switch bodies with someone else. Can be a pretty dick move to force on others.
  • TRANSVERSALIS TELEPORT: Your typical teleport spell that allows you to take others with you.
  • UNION OF SUFFERING: Allows you and your target to share the pain.
  • VISIBILI VANITAR: A straight up invisibility spell without any Predator cloak drawbacks. Though like the wildshape spell, it only affects your naked body, so it is not nearly as useful as the D&D counterpart.
  • WEATHER MASTERY: Your general "mess around with the weather" spell.
  • WISDOM OF TREES: A druid favorite that lets you turn into a tree.

Anti-Magic

These are as numerous as they are bland. They all amount to "Get rid of [summon or other magical effect]". A lot of these can be replaced by a REVERSALIS followed by the spell you want to get rid off.

Elemental Utility Spells

There are a couple spells that let you either turn into a specific element (to become the Human Torch, Iceman or The Thing) or let you walk or otherwise enter the element in question unhindered (to play Jesus, perform funky Wushi stunts or breathe underwater).

Time Spells

These ones are all very rare, very illegal and tend to attract the wrath of Satinav, the keeper of time - especially if you actually travel through time. Then again time travel in TDE runs under "The timeline almost always fixes itself" law, but he probably just doesn't want to take chances.
Speaking of time travel, one can only travel back in time, not into the future, for it doesn't exist from your perspective yet.

  • BURDEN OF AGE: Makes the target instantly age depending on the amount of Astral Points spend.
  • CHRONOKLASSIS URFOSSIL: Temporarily janks something (or someone) from the past. One modification resets the target's state back to from before it got janked (so you can kill your rival multiple times if you want to), the other makes it stay in the present permanently. This is not only the only kinda sorta resurrection spell, but it technically allows you to circumvent the "Can't go into the future" rule by teaching this spell to your elf buddy and having him jank you to his present in a hundred years or so.
  • CHRONONAUTOS TIME TRAVEL: Your straight-forward time travel spell.
  • GLIMPSE INTO THE PAST: Get information of an object or area shown in fast motion.
  • IMMORTALIS LIFETIME: Not only causes instant aging, but also rejuvenates the caster.
  • VESSEL OF YEARS: This lets you re-enact The Picture of Dorian Gray.

Creation and Summoning Spells

  • ACT, DEAD!: Your go-to spell to create an undead permanently. Requies a check to see whether you can actually control your creation.
  • ACT, STONE!: The golem creation spell. This one and the above undead creation spell used to be one and the same in older editions, probably because the cost is similar (a handful of d20s, making this very swingy and annoying) and because the German names created the rhyme "Stein wandle, Totes handle".
  • CHIMAEROFORM HYBRID FORM: For all your chimera creation needs.
  • ELEMENTAL SERVANT: Summons an elemental ghost.
  • GENIE CALL: Summons an elemental genie. Has a built-in penalty because genies can do a lot of different things.
  • GHOST CALL: Summon a ghost.
  • HELPFUL PAW, BAILING WINGS: Attract a nearby animal and ask for its help. The game suggest to speak in a very whimsical manner to the animal for some reason.
  • INVOCATIO MAIOR/MINOR: The two demon summon spells. the MINOR version is your fast summoning spell that can only summon lesser demons, while the other one is actually your big summoning ritual that can take weeks or even months to perform to get just the right conditions for summoning.
  • LORD OF THE ANIMAL KINGDOM: Summon Nature's Ally.
  • MASTER OF ELEMENTS: Summon an elemental master. Has a pretty monstrous built-in penalty.
  • NATURES' MAGICAL BEINGS: Summon nearby fey to hopefully be of help.
  • PANDAEMONIUM: Creates a zone full of tentacles, claws and hungry jaws to damage anyone who dares to enter. This is like something out of Warhammer.
  • RAVEN CALL: A typical witch spell that summons a bunch of crows (or other critters with modifications) to help you in battle. None of the summonable critters have particularly good stats, though.
  • SHINDY: A witch spell that makes the witch's broomstick go apeshit, attacking any enemy within range.
  • SKELETTARIUS: Your spell for creating all kinds of undead that only last for a while. Except for the ones not associated with Targunithoth (like a water corpse or ice mummy). Those require a variant spell.
  • WALK, DUST!: Lets you create an awesome elemental quicksand golemite. Not sure why they bother listing this spell though. The only one who knows it is a Tulamidian nobleman (or at least his personal mages).
  • WHITE MAIN AND GOLDEN HOOF: This is like the phantom steed spell, only the horse appears to always be a bit whimsical.

Bottom Line

Don't get too crazy on blaster spells. Instead focus on flashbanging people so your buffed-up fighter buddies can kill everyone. Also make a lot of cash with fine silk dresses. And knaves may be annoying, but man are they useful to shut down other casters.

Next Time: Demons!

Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool

Toilet Rascal
Humus is an element? Sounds like a tasty world.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

chaos rhames posted:

Humus is an element? Sounds like a tasty world.

That would be hummus. Humus in TDE is just a fancy way to say "wood element".

Wrestlepig
Feb 25, 2011

my mum says im cool

Toilet Rascal
Nice work ruining my campaign, rear end in a top hat.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

Banana Man posted:

So has anyone actually ran a Rifts game? I had the books once upon a time but a cat barfed all over them thats my rifts story

I ran one for a couple months before I gave up on it. It was a campaign where they were going to fight a major bandit faction in Texas. The hook adventure was loosely based off The Seven Samurai/The Magnificent Seven, with them being hired as champions to defend cattle ranchers and farmers from an invasion by a bandit warlord with looted technology from a pre-Rifts cache. They would attack the homesteads in waves of technicals and gun trucks, which weren't MDC, which they found out they could shoot, setting off the truck's fuel tanks with a single laser blast and catch the whole truck-full of bandits on fire (who, while wearing MDC vests, would still get harmed from burning on their limbs and head as well as smoke inhalation). Or punch a truck at one point and send them flying. Then there was a biker wave and an elite wave.

The big boss battle was the warlord was in a Glitter Boy armor disguised as a demon warrior, wielding a shield with rocket launchers and a dismounted 30mm GAU-8 Avenger, with the ammo drum on the back. I think he even had a sword, because I remember he got into a sword fight with the Crazy at some point. The Glitter Boy warlord also blew off the armor off the Juicer (I was going for the optional rule that PCs did not have MDC attacks against them blow-through when their armor was depleted, it sacrificed itself to save the character).

I almost did it to prove to myself you could run mass combat with Rifts, since not only was it the players versus this horde, but also the townsfolk. I think I really had just wanted to try and do stuff. I know the game fell apart when I tried to continue to up the tension. For instance, I had a plan to get the characters out of their armor (or mostly out of it, so they'd have an Armor Rating and a chance to get hurt) and get into a melee fight with good, old-fashioned baseball bats and tire irons in a basketball court as an initiation into a gang so they could continue on to the tech cache, which was a Continuity of Government vault made from the remains of the Super-Conducting Super-Collider infrastructure.

I think if I did it again, I would probably use a different system.

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

Young Freud posted:

I think if I did it again, I would probably use a different system.

Rifts in a nutshell.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
I sat through a Rifts combat once, a fight with some dudes against a bunch of those Xctxctcxctxtcx bug monsters that have a chunk of North America staked out and it was legitimately the most tedious goddamn thing I've ever witnessed.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Kai Tave posted:

I sat through a Rifts combat once, a fight with some dudes against a bunch of those Xctxctcxctxtcx bug monsters that have a chunk of North America staked out and it was legitimately the most tedious goddamn thing I've ever witnessed.

You must have never seen or played HERO with optimized characters.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
Has anyone done Hero/Champions? I understand it involves a parallel universe composed entirely of six-siders.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

fool_of_sound posted:

You must have never seen or played HERO with optimized characters.

Hero is the system where I worked on a PC for 4 hours and had no idea if he'd be useful. I've never actually made it into a Hero campaign, but from the times I've been told to make a PC for it, it's one of my most hated systems.

fool of sound
Oct 10, 2012

Night10194 posted:

Hero is the system where I worked on a PC for 4 hours and had no idea if he'd be useful. I've never actually made it into a Hero campaign, but from the times I've been told to make a PC for it, it's one of my most hated systems.

Yeah it's utterly impossible to make a decent character without substantial system knowledge, and impossible to make a character in a reasonable amount of time without the builder program. I've only played on one campaign of it, and it's pretty interesting in actual play, but the learning curve is so steep I'd pretty much never recommend it to someone who's never run it.

e: Interesting with non-optimized characters, at least. Fights between optimized characters never end.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Halloween Jack posted:

Has anyone done Hero/Champions? I understand it involves a parallel universe composed entirely of six-siders.

Yes. Ever see those bricks of 27 six-siders? It's all downhill from there.

I'm told some people can run Champions combats quickly but I've never seen physical evidence of such a feat.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

La morte non ha sesso
Most of the well-known universal systems out there (not to mention superhero games) seem to me like an absolute shitshow if you just throw open the gates to your players and say "You have X points, make a character for a game in Y genre." IME this results in hours-long character creation, and the players are totally adrift when it comes to making characters who are effective, balanced, and suitable for the adventure the GM is running. It's at least mildly acceptable for something as broad as "Silver Age superheroes," although it's no guarantee of balance. But if you want the game to have much of an identity at all, handling character creation this way is practically requiring the players to write big chunks of the rulebook themselves, but in a hurry and with very poor communication. (Games involving vehicles or special weapons compounds the problem.)

Palladium's rules are awful and unbalanced, of course, but at least you can read through the Morphus abilities and the psychic abilities and kinda know what the bounds of PC power are, what kinds of powers are appropriate, etc. If I tried to run Nightbane I would use a different system, but I wouldn't use, say, Mutants & Masterminds and tell the players "make psychic shapeshifting monster-people."


VVV Edit: Hell man, I only know like 2 people offline who've played GURPS more than once, and just one guy who tried Rifts. But they're out there.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Nov 2, 2015

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Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
I've never actually known anyone who plays Hero is the thing. I mean, I know they exist given the prolific amount of sourcebooks that have been made for it, I know someone's gotta be buying them, I've just never actually met or gamed with anyone who was like "Oh yeah Hero, I used to play that" whereas it seems like most of the roleplayers I've encountered have at least one story about the time they were 12 and thought playing Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles would be a good idea.

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