Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Punting posted:

Exceedingly broad archetypes would work fine for Rifts, since most classes already *DO* fall into fairly broad classifications; You have Skilled (Rogue Scientist, Cyberdoc), Augmented (Juicer, Cyborg), Magical (Ley Line Walker, Warlock), Psychic (Mind Melter, Psy-Knight), Vehicle Specialist (Glitter Boys, Giant Robots, etc), and Mutant/D-Bee (Dog Boys, Psi-Stalker). That some playbooks would have crossover can be solved with some Archetype-hybridizing moves.

You could easily do the corebook that way - after all, it even divides classes into neat categories like "Man at Arms" or "Practitioner of Magic", though dragons are a pain in the rear end - but then in the supplements you get into things like psychic worms, vampires, whales, and even Canadians, so it gets more complicated the deeper you delve.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Comrade Koba
Jul 2, 2007

theironjef posted:

Man I just listened to this to figure out what that joke was, and am thrilled to remember how quickly we realized my cat wants to be on mic all the time.

You should have the Podcat as a guest host on your next episode. Can't wait to hear its in-depth opinions on all the Immortal craziness. :allears:

Robotic Folksinger
Jun 27, 2008

I guess a robot would have to be crazy to wanna be a folksinger

Punting posted:

Exceedingly broad archetypes would work fine for Rifts, since most classes already *DO* fall into fairly broad classifications; You have Skilled (Rogue Scientist, Cyberdoc), Augmented (Juicer, Cyborg), Magical (Ley Line Walker, Warlock), Psychic (Mind Melter, Psy-Knight), Vehicle Specialist (Glitter Boys, Giant Robots, etc), and Mutant/D-Bee (Dog Boys, Psi-Stalker). That some playbooks would have crossover can be solved with some Archetype-hybridizing moves.

Which category do I choose if I want to be a vegabond?

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Skilled, and then all your skills are like Begging, Tramping, Wild Beard Ownership.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015
Now for the big wall of quotes.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

You could easily do the corebook that way - after all, it even divides classes into neat categories like "Man at Arms" or "Practitioner of Magic", though dragons are a pain in the rear end - but then in the supplements you get into things like psychic worms, vampires, whales, and even Canadians, so it gets more complicated the deeper you delve.

Do Canadians get any of the 100% scientifically accurate supernatural abilities as dolphins? Like a natural compass, or cold resistance?

Young Freud posted:

Aren't we also waiting for an official Savage Worlds adaptation, last I heard?

Wow. What's that? An officially sanctioned adaption? Is this a brave new world for Rifts, or has desparation settled in?

That Old Tree posted:

Yeah, but it's still pretty early so we can't honestly pronounce doom, yet. Though after the RoboTactics mess, I wouldn't begrudge anyone the prediction no matter the noise that gets made about Kevin being hands off (which is something I haven't heard).

Dammit I want my BattleTech Unseen, and I want them now.

MonsieurChoc posted:

"That's the speed of a bullet! You just shot me."

Or the part about winged mutants being automatically more hated than other winged superheroes that are visually indistinguishable from them. If it kinda works for Marvel, so it's like Scottish dwarves I guess.

MonsieurChoc posted:

After seeing it mentionned so many times in this thread, I finally decided to try and listen to System Mastery. In chronological order, cause that's how I roll.

I just started laughing out loud at the transformation table jokes (first episode Heroes Unlimited). This is a good start.

Have a fun ride. I know I had.

And man, I think I should check out Patreon myself.

That Old Tree posted:

The one about Prime Directive, I think episode 4, is what hooked me. I love hearing about train wrecks.

It was kinda like that for me as well. To be honest, Star Fleet Battles looks like an interesting alternate universe version of Star Trek, but then Prime Directive zoomed a little bit too close into the setting itself.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Doresh posted:

Do Canadians get any of the 100% scientifically accurate supernatural abilities as dolphins? Like a natural compass, or cold resistance?

No, but some Quebecois have breeding that makes them the best Glitter Boy pilots.

Well, it could just be their breeding gets the selected for certain training. Or it could be that they have glam in their blood. Ask your GM.

Doresh posted:

Wow. What's that? An officially sanctioned adaption? Is this a brave new world for Rifts, or has desparation settled in?

It was announced back in April but no details or updates have come out since.

occamsnailfile
Nov 4, 2007



zamtrios so lonely
Grimey Drawer

theironjef posted:

Skilled, and then all your skills are like Begging, Tramping, Wild Beard Ownership.

Excuse me, but he very clearly said vegabond, so that's either Wearing a Freak Mask, Shirtless In Seattle, and Spanish!? or Friend to All Cute Animals, Lectureship, and 'Organic'.

AmiYumi
Oct 10, 2005

I FORGOT TO HAIL KING TORG

Comrade Koba posted:

You should have the Podcat as a guest host on your next episode. Can't wait to hear its in-depth opinions on all the Immortal craziness. :allears:
Just have a Guest Afterthought, starring Podcat and The Dog That Denies The Holocaust.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Alien Rope Burn posted:

No, but some Quebecois have breeding that makes them the best Glitter Boy pilots.

Well, it could just be their breeding gets the selected for certain training. Or it could be that they have glam in their blood. Ask your GM.

So it's like the Clanners from BattleTech?

quote:

It was announced back in April but no details or updates have come out since.

Well, as long as it doesn't take 20 years...

Tenra Bansho Zero


Tenran Anonymous is pretty badass.

Within the Shadows of Tenra

The new Spinning Blade Drill Arm (tm), brought to you by TBZ.

This chapter gives short summaries of various secret and not-so-secret organizations found in Tenra. Some have been mentioned before in the metaplot, while others only appear here. GMs are encouraged to ignore or modify them to their liking, particularly in regards to how good, evil or morally ambiguous their are.

Kimentoh: The Demon Mask Faction

The Kimentoh are a Tenra-wide secret society / terrorist organization whose name is derived from the rad demon masks its members wear to hide their identity.
The primary goal of these demon mask guys is to overthrow the Shinto Priesthood. They know that they are to few in numbers to attack them directly, so they opt for a combination of "Death of Thousand Cuts" and the Butterfly Effect: A bit of petty crimes here, some sabotage there, a few members in positions of power... and though these actions might appear unrelated and random at first glance, they all built towards the Kimentoh's ultimate goal and slowly but surely escalate into something big.


In the grim future of Bleach, there are only Visored. Man, is that manga still going?

As it is typical for secret societies, the people of Tenra have come up with all sorts of conspiracies, making them responsible for anything rom the Fall of the Phantom Star to the Makuu Nindo revolt (with Makuu Nindo himself also sometimes being made responsible for the Phantom Star).
What is true is that the Kimentoh are the first and biggest dealer of Kimen Kongohki technology, though this isn't common knowledge as they always act in secret. They of course make good use of these Kongohki themselves, rigging them with a self-destruct device to cover their retreats.

Kimentoh members fall into one of 4 categories: Cho (goons), Hei (cell leaders), Otsu (strategists) and Kou (SpecOps). Their secrecy goes so far that each member usually only knows the true identiy of the one who itnroduced him into the Kimentoh, and nobody knows the identity of their leader Kiyru Kouga, the Dragonfang (aka Spinning Blade Drill Arm guy). Though him being a Samurai Ninja Kijin (only one of which can actually be kept secret from the public) does decrease the circle of possible suspects ever so slightly.

What is their motivation? To they want to free Tenra from the shackles of the Priesthood douchebags? Or do they want to install their own terror regime and are just trying to eliminate the only threat standing in their way? It is for the GM to decide.

Kuze-Shu (aka Kuze Order)

The Kuze-Shu are an elite group of quirky specialists founded by the Phoenix Sect member only known as the Kuze Monk in order to protect the capital of Jinrai by any means necessary. They're part intelligence agency, part SWAT team, all under the order of the Priesthood.
Naturally, this originally mission got shafted when the Phantom Star fell and Jinrai and the surrounding land ceased to be, not to mention the Priesthood's schism. After lots of initial confusion and turmoil, the order decided to just split up, with the Blue Dragon Order protecting the Northern Court's capital, while the Adamantine Order did the same for the Southern Court. There's no real strife or anything, they just continue their old job.

The Blue Dragon Order is lead by One-Eyed Saikuro, a Samurai also known as the "One-Eyed Oni" because his Samurai form has him grow horns. The Adamantine Order is lead by Ran the Meikyo User, a special snowflake Shinto agent who doesn't wear a mask.
To act as a spiritual leader, the Kuze Monk had his soul sealed into a Meikyo mirror long ago, which Ran managed to duplicate so both orders could have their own mentor, with the Blue Dragon Monk being a Kongohki while the Adamantine Monk is just a mirror image/hologram.

The book presents a total of 18 Kuze-Shu members, and I have heard that most - if not all - of them are inspired by Marvel characters (particularly the X-Men), which probably explains the above soul clone shenanigans. Sadly my Marvel lore is limited to the movies, particularly infamous Spider-Man arcs and the silly characters from the Marvel Super Heroes "bestiary", so I'm not even trying to guess everyone's inspiration.

And if you liked TBZ's comic panels, I think most of the Kuze-Shu portraits where also made by the same guy.


Wolverine, Storm, and kinda sorta gender-swapped Rogue (I think?)

Other honorable mentions go to Juubei the Half-Wolf (an Annelidist who has body-modded himself into a wolfdude, aka Beast), Keu-Lu (an Oni girl from the future aka FemCable) and Rei the Shrine Maiden (who is both a Half-Oni and a Shinto agent, whatever that is in X-Men terms). Not entirely sure why any sort of Oni-blooded wold work for the Priesthood, but I guess they must have their reasons.
There is also Tsuchigumo the Earth Spider, who is Spider-Man, right down to not actually being a member of the Kuze-shu/X-Men.

The Hidden 28th Chamber

As the Phoenix Sect spread over all of Tenra, its leaders quickly realized that having a purely defensive army is not enough to protect them from all threats. Some of them - like the Ayakashi - required more active measures to root out the problems permanently. Thus the most faithful of monks where recruited into The Hidden 28th Chamber of the Merciful Phoenix Sect, tasked with hunting down demons without and corruption within.
As their tasks include assassinations and other shady things that go directly against what the Phoenix Sect stands for, their very existance is denied by the sect an kept a closely-guarded secret. Monks recruited into the 28th Chamber are therefore officially declared dead and given a new identity.


I always wanted to be a lumberjack.

While the Chamber itself stayed true and loyal to their mission of "Destroy the Enemies of the Buddha", its meaning has slowly changed over time to mean the enemies of the Phoenix Sect. Ebon Mountain and especially the Bright Lotus Sect have become victims of the 28th Chamber, and rumors say that they even attacked the Kuze-Shu, which would imply that the Phoenix Sect is starting to see their Shinto BFFs as a threat...

The leader of the 28th Chamber is Black-Red Sky, Monk of the Era of Corruption, a sorcerer monk and martial artist. Some of his underlings are slowly starting to question the path the Chamber has taken.

Zedaishu

The Zedaishu is an elite order of Oni and Half-Oni serving under Maikuu Nindo. Eager to finally have a land of their own again, they developed the Zedai-ryu (aka Matrix Jedi style) War Art that took advantage of their Resonance powers.
They played a vital role in the Makuu Nindo revolt, and they are currently busy protecting the Oni. Not just in their new land of Kikoku, but wherever humans are gathering for a new Oni hunt - which has become much more common thanks to the Kimenkyos.

The Zedaishu's leader is Sendou Anna, the only surviving member of the order's six founders, and pretty much the only piece of bishounen art in TBZ - which might come as a surprise considering TBZ appears to have a sizable female fanbase in Japan. I guess fanservice isn't everything.


Equestria Shounen.

To prove that the Jedi analogue isn't a joke, there are the so-called "Zedaishu Stray", Zedai-ryu practicioners who refused to follow Makuu Nindo and have therefore gone against the will of the Oni gods themselves, branding them as outcasts. I bet their spirit blades are red.

The Hyakki Swarm (apparently an abbrevation of "The Hundred-Machine Ninja Swarm". Nice.)

Remember the part about Kongohki eventually remebering their previous life as an Asura and usually going crazy in the process? The Hyakki Swarm is a group of free Kongohki who not only stayed sane (or sane enough), but decided that being Chaotic Evil is pretty awesome. Acting as a mercenary army (and why would you not want to hire an army that is all speedster killbots?), they actually want to kill every living thing on Tenra.


Looks trustworthy enough.

The Hyakki Swarm is lead by Three-Faced Koubei, a Heavy Assault Unit whose creator was just asking for something like this to happen when he created something with a total of eight souls, three of which are fully sentient.
Leader and top head of Three-Face is Koubei himself, melee weapons expert and practicioner of Kongohki-Fu. The right shoulder and arm are under control of Misuke, a former Annelidist martial artist (with her Wormcharm skill now being completely useless to her, for Kongohki don't have anything close to a Living Armour frame). The left shoulder and arm are the domain of Ayame, a former shuriken- and kunai-spamming Ninja expert.
While Three-Faced Koubei doesn't have any built-in weapons, he doesn't really need to considering the huge amount of actions he gets and mastery of every weapon he can get his hands on.


Crotchface seems almost self-concscious enough to contemplate on his life.

The Five from Kasumidani

A team of five Ninjas (most of them also dabbling into another archetype) who serve as potential ally/rival murder hobos to the PCs.
To further hammer down the murder hoboism, the Five have a simple outlook on life and will just help out anyone who pays them. Nobody knows why they need so much money or where it goes afterwards, but it seems to be connected with their "liege" they rarely speak about.


Looks like The Thing just wanted friends all along.

Next Time: Against the Tide - an example sandbox-y region of Tenra for PCs to mess around with.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Dec 12, 2015

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
As a side note, given the X-men thing the Kuze-Shu have going on...

Makuu Nindo is basically 'Magneto"

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

unseenlibrarian posted:

Makuu Nindo is basically 'Magneto"

Make that Magneto+. As an Oni, he has full-on telekinesis.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Doresh posted:

Make that Magneto+. As an Oni, he has full-on telekinesis.

Oni, even with their thousands of years of mythology, have nothing on the power creep of mutants. Magneto has previous displayed mind control because of his "magnetic personality."

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

theironjef posted:

Oni, even with their thousands of years of mythology, have nothing on the power creep of mutants. Magneto has previous displayed mind control because of his "magnetic personality."

Now I remember why I don't read X-Men. Though I guess this makes slightly more sense than "Wolverine's self-resurrection powers aren't part of his healing factor, but a result of him KOing the angel of death each time he dies."

Doresh fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Dec 12, 2015

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Doresh posted:

So it's like the Clanners from BattleTech?

Not really, but heritage goes a long way if you want to be a Quebecois glitter boy pilot. (Which goes along with the original concept of them being handed down like a knights' arms.)

Doresh posted:

The book presents a total of 18 Kuze-Shu members, and I have heard that most - if not all - of them are inspired by Marvel characters (particularly the X-Men), which probably explains the above soul clone shenanigans. Sadly my Marvel lore is limited to the movies, particularly infamous Spider-Man arcs and the silly characters from the Marvel Super Heroes "bestiary", so I'm not even trying to guess everyone's inspiration.

And if you liked TBZ's comic panels, I think most of the Kuze-Shu portraits where also made by the same guy.


Wolverine, Storm, and kinda sorta gender-swapped Rogue (I think?)

Other honorable mentions go to Juubei the Half-Wolf (an Annelidist who has body-modded himself into a wolfdude, aka Beast), Keu-Lu (an Oni girl from the future aka FemCable) and Rei the Shrine Maiden (who is both a Half-Oni and a Shinto agent, whatever that is in X-Men terms). Not entirely sure why any sort of Oni-blooded wold work for the Priesthood, but I guess they must have their reasons.
There is also Tsuchigumo the Earth Spider, who is Spider-Man, right down to not actually being a member of the Kuze-shu/X-Men.

Here's a full list, as best as I can figure out. I don't have a whole lot of doubts, though.

pre:
  • One-Eye Saikuro = Cyclops
  • Juubei the Half-Wolf = Beast
  • Rikudo Aya = Psylocke
  • Blue Dragon Monk = Juggernaut
  • Rouga the Immortal = Wolverine
  • Shumi Hourin = Jubilee
  • Idaten Genji = Quicksilver
  • Ran the Meikyo User = Storm
  • Kanoh Fusatatsu = Cannonball
  • Silverwing Ouren = Archangel
  • Makoto of the Eater Worms = Maggott
  • Thunder Juuto = Gambit
  • Rei the Shrine Maiden = Jean Grey
  • Rohku the Oni-Human = Rogue
  • Adamantine Monk = Professor X
  • Hyouki the Ice Demon = Iceman
  • Keu-Lu = Phoenix (Rachel Summers)
  • Tsuchigumo, the Earth Spider = Spider-Man

theironjef posted:

Oni, even with their thousands of years of mythology, have nothing on the power creep of mutants. Magneto has previous displayed mind control because of his "magnetic personality."

That was the Silver Age (like in the single digit issues), back when "scientific rigor" in comics was "I used a science word". Not that things have gotten a lot better, but this was also the time Namor could expand like a puffer fish. It was a special time in comics.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Alien Rope Burn posted:

Not really, but heritage goes a long way if you want to be a Quebecois glitter boy pilot. (Which goes along with the original concept of them being handed down like a knights' arms.)

My bad. And it takes a special privilege to own the slowest railgun known to man.

quote:

Here's a full list, as best as I can figure out. I don't have a whole lot of doubts, though.

Thanks for the info. I was wondering who Makoto aka "I have to giant pet caterpillars" was all about.

quote:

That was the Silver Age (like in the single digit issues), back when "scientific rigor" in comics was "I used a science word". Not that things have gotten a lot better, but this was also the time Namor could expand like a puffer fish. It was a special time in comics.

Not to mention the time Superman gained the ability to shoot a miniature version of himself. Or Mummy Batman, Zebra Batman and Bat Baby.

And whose bright idea was it to remove Namor's iconic puffer fish power? That's way more interesting than him just being Aquaelf.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Doresh posted:

And whose bright idea was it to remove Namor's iconic puffer fish power? That's way more interesting than him just being Aquaelf.

It was very quietly written out in a narrative caption (I believe by Lee and Kirby). No explanation, just literally "nautical Namor has since lost his power to imitate the characteristics of fish" and that was that.

Grnegsnspm
Oct 20, 2003

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarian 2: Electric Boogaloo

Alien Rope Burn posted:

It was very quietly written out in a narrative caption (I believe by Lee and Kirby). No explanation, just literally "nautical Namor has since lost his power to imitate the characteristics of fish" and that was that.

Which is sad because it was the only thing he had going for him. Without that he just has the "generic super powers suite" (flight, durability, and super strength) but he can also breath underwater. Weeee. Make fun of Aquaman's ability to talk to fish all you want but it's at least something interesting. The only way they can think to make Namor compelling is turning him into a Soggy Moleman who hates those surface dwellers.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

That is unfair.

Namor has one other thing going for him: being a better lover and possibly a better foster father than Reed Richards.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.

Mors Rattus posted:

That is unfair.

Namor has one other thing going for him: being a better lover and possibly a better foster father than Reed Richards.

Admittedly, not a very high bar to cross.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund
Doom is better at both of those things. :doom:

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.
Namor occasionally hits on Emma Frost and Mary Jane Watson, too. His main role in the Marvel Universe now is pretty much just to cuck your favorite superhero.

I smell a miniseries! What if?!?... Namor Tapped Dat rear end?!?

Grnegsnspm
Oct 20, 2003

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarian 2: Electric Boogaloo

Simian_Prime posted:

I smell a miniseries! What if?!?... Namor Tapped Dat rear end?!?

I have the What If...? where he marries Sue. That's probably close enough.

Josef bugman posted:

Doom is better at both of those things. :doom:

Honestly, they also make him a poor man's Doom a lot of the time. He acts arrogant, has a kingdom, and is constantly competing with RIIIICHAAARRRRRDS :doom:

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

If you guys are really missing the hero that can be a puffer fish for some reason, there's a DC guy with that power, named Lagoon Boy.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Grnegsnspm posted:

Honestly, they also make him a poor man's Doom a lot of the time. He acts arrogant, has a kingdom, and is constantly competing with RIIIICHAAARRRRRDS :doom:

The difference is that Doom knows how to run a kingdom with an iron fist. Also face.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Also nerds don't get a huge boner for dictatorship from Namor.

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Mors Rattus posted:

Also nerds don't get a huge boner for dictatorship from Namor.

True.

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

Lipstick Apathy

Comrade Koba posted:

You should have the Podcat as a guest host on your next episode. Can't wait to hear its in-depth opinions on all the Immortal craziness. :allears:

Seconding the Podcat as the new System Mastery hotness.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.

gradenko_2000 posted:

Seconding the Podcat as the new System Mastery hotness.

Fair enough, I will do my best to get Izzy near the mic again.

Rangpur
Dec 31, 2008

Doresh posted:


In the grim future of Bleach, there are only Visored. Man, is that manga still going?
Yes. At this point, it's basically Exalted, in that whoever runs out of exceedingly long descriptions of their special move first dies instantly. The curse of all shonen manga is to descend into self-parody if they run long enough. ...Huh. And I think I just realized why TBZ is built for one-shots/short campaigns.

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011

Rangpur posted:

Yes. At this point, it's basically Exalted, in that whoever runs out of exceedingly long descriptions of their special move first dies instantly. The curse of all shonen manga is to descend into self-parody if they run long enough. ...Huh. And I think I just realized why TBZ is built for one-shots/short campaigns.

Well, the other issue is just not recognizing when you've reached a good point to just stop. Bleach should have just ended with Aizen's defeat, because it had the perfect draw down ending with Ichigo no longer powered but still crazy knowledgeable and skilled taking on the task of training his sister do poo poo for the future. Throw in some element of him having found the intrinsic value of regular life and the good he can bring to the world and you had a perfect hero's journey end right there.

But no, instead he had to get repowered to eventually be revealed to be all the special things of the universe at once and fight Hyper-God for reasons.

Edit: In fact, that actually reminds me of one of my favorite stories the translating team shared that they had learned from the original writing team. It was about a player in a game that ended with an epic boss fight against a crazy powerful enemy and ultimately the way the team decided to deal with it was to pool all their Akai chits and other resources on one of their combat monkeys so he could blow of two crazy attacks, one to tick the guy's dead box and the other to kill him. Afterwards the character had an absurd amount of Karma but after spending a bit doing the numbers the player figured out that by dropping all of their destinies and such they could manage to get to exactly 108 Karma and thus not go Asura. And then they looked at the character, suddenly a blank slate as far as purpose and destiny went and just said, "yeah, I think that's good." They came up with a little story about how he'd lost all his memories of his previous life, including all the awful things that had made his life awful, and the rest of the team chipped in saying they bought him a nice farm in the country and let him live out the rest of his days in peace.

LornMarkus fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 13, 2015

Hyper Crab Tank
Feb 10, 2014

The future of crustacean-based warfare
That's the curse of all popular media. What, the story is over? But we're making millions every year on merchandising alone! No, you're going back in there and you're making it work somehow, Mr. Writer. If you don't, well, we own the rights, so we can just hire some other writers and keep it going - I'm sure among the throng of fans there're one or two that aren't completely incompetent, and more than willing to write more content...

Josef bugman
Nov 17, 2011

Pictured: Poster prepares to celebrate Holy Communion (probablY)

This avatar made possible by a gift from the Religionthread Posters Relief Fund

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

That's the curse of all popular media. What, the story is over? But we're making millions every year on merchandising alone! No, you're going back in there and you're making it work somehow, Mr. Writer. If you don't, well, we own the rights, so we can just hire some other writers and keep it going - I'm sure among the throng of fans there're one or two that aren't completely incompetent, and more than willing to write more content...

And then your up to your eyeballs in shite.

Its why I am glad that Breaking Bad and the Wire stopped when they did. Could you imagine if they'd gone on as long as poo poo like the simpsons has?

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

Josef bugman posted:

And then your up to your eyeballs in shite.

Its why I am glad that Breaking Bad and the Wire stopped when they did. Could you imagine if they'd gone on as long as poo poo like the simpsons has?

But if we don't get another season, we won't get to see if McNulty and Omar will escape from 15th-century Ottoman Turkey!!! How will we know if they make it to New Hamsterdam Station on Jupiter's orbit to prevent Marlo's ascension as the Techno-Messiah?!? #sixseasonsandamovie

That Old Tree
Jun 23, 2012

nah


Even then, the last season of The Wire and the last half of Breaking Bad were not as good as what came before. Years of production and all the changes that brings takes a toll on the integrity of a series. The Wire is remarkable for maintaining its initial momentum for so very long, and only faltering a little in the last season.

Simian_Prime
Nov 6, 2011

When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

That Old Tree posted:

Even then, the last season of The Wire and the last half of Breaking Bad were not as good as what came before. Years of production and all the changes that brings takes a toll on the integrity of a series. The Wire is remarkable for maintaining its initial momentum for so very long, and only faltering a little in the last season.

Yeah, things went a little off the rails when they put Stringer Bell's brain inside that giant robot.

That Old Tree
Jun 23, 2012

nah


Simian_Prime posted:

Yeah, things went a little off the rails when they put Stringer Bell's brain inside that giant robot.

I turned against the season early when it turned out the credits were now a Bollywood dance number featuring Spiderman and Speedy, recorded new each episode.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

That's the curse of all popular media. What, the story is over? But we're making millions every year on merchandising alone! No, you're going back in there and you're making it work somehow, Mr. Writer. If you don't, well, we own the rights, so we can just hire some other writers and keep it going - I'm sure among the throng of fans there're one or two that aren't completely incompetent, and more than willing to write more content...

The truth is that Bleach is far from being popular nowadays: It's the only one of the Big Three that actually lost readers, the anime is cancelled and will most likely only be continued as an OVA (if people still care enough at that point), and the last Bleach fighting game (the only measure of a shounen fighting manga's popularity you'll ever need) came out like 5 years ago. The only thing you can even get for current-gen stuff is maybe some cheap social gaming stuff, and appearances in Jump's multi-crossover games.
Kubo's not prolonging the final arc for as long as he possibly can because Shounen Jump begs him to. They'd probably rather want to cancel it to make room for a new manga, and they might actually do that if the story is still going in 2+ years.
The sad truth is that Kubo is clinging to his first creation that actually became famous with an iron grip. And who knows if whatever manga he'll be writing next will even come close to Bleach's past popularity after all the hack writing he did in the last years.

LornMarkus posted:

Well, the other issue is just not recognizing when you've reached a good point to just stop. Bleach should have just ended with Aizen's defeat, because it had the perfect draw down ending with Ichigo no longer powered but still crazy knowledgeable and skilled taking on the task of training his sister do poo poo for the future. Throw in some element of him having found the intrinsic value of regular life and the good he can bring to the world and you had a perfect hero's journey end right there.

But no, instead he had to get repowered to eventually be revealed to be all the special things of the universe at once and fight Hyper-God for reasons.

Whenever I go back to check what insanity Kubo has come up next, I'm glad that I pretend the whole thing ended before the time skip.

And boy would I ever read a Bleach d20 fangame, if only to see physical evidence of someone writing down Ichigo's complete race/class combinations with a straight face.

(And despite all of this, Ichigo somehow never gains any new moves aside from one-off asspulls. He didn't even borrow the spinning sword move his Hollow self used against him.)

quote:

Edit: In fact, that actually reminds me of one of my favorite stories the translating team shared that they had learned from the original writing team. It was about a player in a game that ended with an epic boss fight against a crazy powerful enemy and ultimately the way the team decided to deal with it was to pool all their Akai chits and other resources on one of their combat monkeys so he could blow of two crazy attacks, one to tick the guy's dead box and the other to kill him. Afterwards the character had an absurd amount of Karma but after spending a bit doing the numbers the player figured out that by dropping all of their destinies and such they could manage to get to exactly 108 Karma and thus not go Asura. And then they looked at the character, suddenly a blank slate as far as purpose and destiny went and just said, "yeah, I think that's good." They came up with a little story about how he'd lost all his memories of his previous life, including all the awful things that had made his life awful, and the rest of the team chipped in saying they bought him a nice farm in the country and let him live out the rest of his days in peace.

I think he also eventually ended up as a bodyguard for a villain. Still a fun story.

Rangpur posted:

Yes. At this point, it's basically Exalted, in that whoever runs out of exceedingly long descriptions of their special move first dies instantly. The curse of all shonen manga is to descend into self-parody if they run long enough. ...Huh. And I think I just realized why TBZ is built for one-shots/short campaigns.

Shounen: The Expositioning, where your powers only work if you explain them to your opponent. Including how to counter them.

And long TBZ campaigns don't really fail due to power creep, as the game heavily favors the use of Aiki chits for short-term boosts instead of long-term improvements. The main issue is probably Karma management and running out of good ideas for your character to change in a way that does not involves a complete personality change like the above amnesia example.

Josef bugman posted:

The difference is that Doom knows how to run a kingdom with an iron fist. Also face.

Do not believe the American propaganda. Doom is the loving father of his people and a the lynchpin that holds the EU together.

Grnegsnspm posted:

Which is sad because it was the only thing he had going for him. Without that he just has the "generic super powers suite" (flight, durability, and super strength) but he can also breath underwater. Weeee. Make fun of Aquaman's ability to talk to fish all you want but it's at least something interesting. The only way they can think to make Namor compelling is turning him into a Soggy Moleman who hates those surface dwellers.

I never made fun of Aquaman. Anyone who can ride a swarm of sharks into battle is a good person in my book.

Doresh fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Dec 13, 2015

mycot
Oct 23, 2014
Hell Gem
Doom holding up the value of the Euro is an amusing image.

Doresh
Jan 7, 2015

mycot posted:

Doom holding up the value of the Euro is an amusing image.

Everyone wants a Latverian Euro with Doom's mask on it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

Let your word be "Yes, Yes" or "No, No"; anything more than this comes from the evil one.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

A good number of Palladium's old guard are his old gaming buddies who basically give him a pat on the back and a thumbs up to just about anything he does. Well, except for the one that robbed him and ran off. And why wouldn't they, really? I know some of them certainly pull their weight in things like shipping and whatnot, but I struggle at figuring at what (their chief editor) Alec Marciniszyn does for the company, because editing sure isn't part of it. Getting paid for decades despite complete incompetency seems like a pretty sweet deal.

CroatianAlzheimers posted:

Yeah, the "editing" is a joke. If Kevin writes it, Alex and Julius (both of whom are incredible sperglords and total yes-men) "edit" it, all the while telling Kevin that it's awesome and the best thing they've ever read. If someone else writes it, then Kevin re-writes it, gives it to Alex and Julius who then "edit" the manuscript, all the while telling Kevin that it's awesome and the best thing they've ever read and only he could have fixed the obviously deeply flawed original manuscript.

This is, as you can imagine, a total joke. I one time went through a manuscript after Alex and caught a ton of super basic spelling and grammar mistakes, not to mention a couple of structural problems with the manuscript. This is after it'd gone through two sets of eyes and about a month on various desks. I brought this up to Himself and his answer was, Well, you have to remember, he's not a professional editor... He's been an Editor for twenty goddamned years! For money! That's the loving definition of a professional!

Anyway, there's also zero editorial guidance. There's no styleguide (just read any of our books and do it that way!), Everything seemed, to me at least, to be a guessing game as to what Kevin wanted, and the sum total of his editorial direction usually amounts to little more than, That's a great idea! Just write it!. Kevin doesn't believe that writers can edit/re-write their own work, nor can they follow directions. He told me that to my face. I didn't get a single re-write or piece of editorial direction until after I got laid off and started working for Fantasy Flight in '09.

:laugh:

  • Locked thread