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Ratoslov
Feb 15, 2012

Now prepare yourselves! You're the guests of honor at the Greatest Kung Fu Cannibal BBQ Ever!

mllaneza posted:

drat right we are.

"Human bites can be fatally infectious even to other humans."

http://imgur.com/gallery/gCxtRhl

Yeah, I've always wanted to see a sci-fi RPG where Earth was generally considered by aliens to be some kind of poisonous hell-planet. We respirate corrosive oxygen, our piss can eventually melt steel, we poison ourselves for fun, and we domesticated our primary predator before we invented the wheel. So everyone has the impression that we're space orcs.

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Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Greg Stolze's Out of the Violent Planet sort of does that in the sense that there are various alien races out there and every single one of them has psychic powers, all of them, which means that all forms of conflict are basically decided by psychic strength. One side psionically dominates the other, they win. Or you can telepathically puppet other races to be your slave-soldiers.

So everything revolves around psychic powers except some aliens land on Earth one day and learn the hard way that humans have no psychic affinity but this also means that humans aren't very susceptible to psychic powers and that we've invented these crazy things called "guns" that nobody else has ever needed before because hey, psychic powers. Suddenly humans are thrust into the intergalactic scene as a combination of highly sought-after mercenary force and dangerous wildlife.

El Estrago Bonito
Dec 17, 2010

Scout Finch Bitch

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, I've always wanted to see a sci-fi RPG where Earth was generally considered by aliens to be some kind of poisonous hell-planet. We respirate corrosive oxygen, our piss can eventually melt steel, we poison ourselves for fun, and we domesticated our primary predator before we invented the wheel. So everyone has the impression that we're space orcs.

I ran a campaign for a few years that was set in a sort of not-very-serious military sci-fi setting. Eventually the PC's ran into a renegade alien who became their BFF. It turned out that all aliens avoid human space on principle because of how terrible our species is, so all the alien encounters had basically been huge dickhead aliens that the council of alien lords had banished for being to assholeish.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Mors Rattus posted:

In theory, but Monsterhearts and 'working together effectively' are not always things that go together.

Obviously, but there's definitely a non-antagonist angle to be played there. Take a Chosen and a Queen, and you've got the core of a dysfunctional group of angsty, overly dramatic teenagers who are nevertheless the town's best and only hope against unspeakable horrors - add an Infernal for spice, and a Mortal as someone's family member who's in love with the main villain.

Cythereal fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Sep 6, 2014

langurmonkey
Oct 29, 2011

Getting healthy by posting on the Internet

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, I've always wanted to see a sci-fi RPG where Earth was generally considered by aliens to be some kind of poisonous hell-planet. We respirate corrosive oxygen, our piss can eventually melt steel, we poison ourselves for fun, and we domesticated our primary predator before we invented the wheel. So everyone has the impression that we're space orcs.

Not an RPG but there is a series of novels by Alan Dean Foster that follow this premise. A Call to Arms is the first one.

LatwPIAT
Jun 6, 2011

kaynorr posted:

I can't speak to Phoenix Command, but I'm pretty sure both Champions and GURPS tried to become more universal versions of their antecedent genres (supers for Champions, D&D for GURPS) and hit convergent evolution.

Phoenix Command was created as a response to the perceived unrealistic RPGs of its era; PCCS (and its predecessors, Sword's Path: Glory and Small Arms Spectrum) were designed in order to avoid the major game-abstractions of D&D and its ilk. PCCS in particular was also 90% tabletop miniature wargame with some vague notes for how you could use it for roleplaying. You have to buy the Advanced Rules supplement just to get rules for handling actions that aren't fighting, for example. SPG, the Aliens RPG, and Living Steel, which are explicitly roleplaying games, have systems for handling non-combat things.

As an example of the motivation, from SPG:

Why is an arrow to the back more deadly to a young vigorous but inexperienced warrior than an aging veteran? Can a fully armored man make a 90° turn at full speed, and stop on a dime? Is it possible to mix armor? And why doesn't anyone die from concussion days after the fight is over? Patchwork systems were often installed to get around these sorts of problems, whether "Critical Hit" systems or "Strike from Behind" rules. These helped, but there were still inconsistencies. A cut artery that would be immediately fatal to one man might be little more than an inconvenience to another. For some reason "experience" causes one's blood to clot more quickly. Systems with "Hit Points" that remained constant have been introduced with some success and accuracy, but there is still that magic moment of "0 Hit Points" when the character falls over and dies, often bruised to an early and sudden death.

PCCS similarly has a blurb inviting you to put a .45 ACP pistol to your character's forehead in your favourite RPG system and pulling the trigger until your character falls unconscious, then waiting some weeks for the wound to heal by itself.

Ironslave
Aug 8, 2006

Corpse runner

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, I've always wanted to see a sci-fi RPG where Earth was generally considered by aliens to be some kind of poisonous hell-planet. We respirate corrosive oxygen, our piss can eventually melt steel, we poison ourselves for fun, and we domesticated our primary predator before we invented the wheel. So everyone has the impression that we're space orcs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcPqk-O-fD4

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry
For an interesting comedic take on Earth and humans as insanely dangerous, look up an Australian RPG called 'Hunter Planet'.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

La morte non ha sesso

NGDBSS posted:

Anyone have opinions on Tribe 8? One of my roommates acquired the first edition sourcebook at a secondhand shop and the system sounds interesting (if gritty and 90's). That said, I've not delved into the setting (which takes up the first half of the book) so I'm not certain if anything weird came up there.
Tribe 8 and Dune actually have a similar basic mechanic, but reversed, if I remember right. In Dune you do roll-and-keep with your Attribute and add your Skill, and DP9's Silhouette system is the opposite.

I mention this because both of them are part of a large number of games from the 90s that use a dice pool system with six-siders. In the case of most of these games, I wonder if the writers actually had specific, mechanical design goals they were trying to meet--a certain spread of probabilities, a certain chance of success for Ability Level X vs. Target Y, making skills more important than ability scores or vice versa. I suspect that most of the time, they just wanted a system where the basic die mechanic resolves quickly and was at least slightly different from everyone else on the market.

Edit: A few more things I just thought of...

DP9 had a very active and loyal fanbase, so when they released the "SilCore" book for their in-house system, I took a look at it. The first thing that caught me off guard was that it actually had plenty of rules for small-unit tactics; you could actually organize the PCs as a fire team and have them moving and firing in unison. And IIRC, the rules were functional and nowhere near as complicated and clunky as, say, Phoenix Command. I had never seen anything like that in a game before. However, the rules for individual combatants were very sparse; any given World of Darkness game had more combat maneuvers for PCs to execute. Tribe 8 actually plugged this gap by having a whole suite of hand-to-hand combat maneuvers.

Related to what I was saying above, I'm not sure how well DP9 understood their own system. For example, when leafing through Jovian Chronicles, it said that you could emphasize the importance of eugenically-endowed talent by changing the basic system so that you roll attributes and add skills, rather than the reverse. Well, the basic system already made attributes more important, and that change undoes it. (If you're rolling a roll-and-keep dice pool, you hit diminishing returns after 2 dice, whereas adding a number to the total never hits diminishing returns.)

As for the setting of Tribe 8, it always struck me as the kind of metaplotty, apocalyptic, problematic anti-modernism that Werewolf wallowed in. But if I remember right, the evil Z'bri are actually the spirits of the hungry dead whereas the messianic Fatimas are ghosts in the machine.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Sep 6, 2014

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

REIGNING YOSPOS COSTCO KING
The 90s really were the Dice Pool Era. Every game used a dice pool mechanic (I blame Vampire/WoD) and then applied their own little quirk to it so it wouldn't be a verbatim copy of Vampire or Shadowrun.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I'm not sure anyone really thought about the math, either. Variable dice pools versus variable target numbers made for some really swingy results, and that's before tossing in degrees of success and target numbers that require one or more dice to explode multiple times. FASA simplified things a little for combat in SR2, by standardizing on two successes to 'stage' damage results up or down a level, but it took White Wolf until the New World of Darkness to standardize on a fixed target number.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

REIGNING YOSPOS COSTCO KING

Bieeardo posted:

I'm not sure anyone really thought about the math, either. Variable dice pools versus variable target numbers made for some really swingy results, and that's before tossing in degrees of success and target numbers that require one or more dice to explode multiple times. FASA simplified things a little for combat in SR2, by standardizing on two successes to 'stage' damage results up or down a level, but it took White Wolf until the New World of Darkness to standardize on a fixed target number.
Oh yeah, the math was almost always hosed up. Shadowrun 1E made a 6 difficulty the exact same as a 7, Vampire/WoD 1E had a charming glitch where your chance of a critical failure went up as you got more skilled, and so on.

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!
I love that if the difficulty hits 10 in Storyteller your chances get worse the more dice you have.

Tulpa
Aug 8, 2014
IIRC, SilCore actually showed their math and understood their probabilities pretty intimately. It's actually my go-to 'fix' for dice pool systems (except for Reign, which also actually showed its math and understood its poo poo), to just throw out whatever the normal thing was and use the bits and pieces of SilCore that make sense.

That's not to say that certain line writers didn't understand the system at all, as demonstrated by Jovian Chronicles.

Still, they did do the math in the core rules at least, and it's very non-swingy. It's not quite the same as Dune's roll and keep system, because you get a +1 to your result for every additional 6 you roll in SilCore. This keeps high skill values fairly relevant for more than just reducing swinginess.

Zereth
Jul 8, 2003



Bieeardo posted:

I'm not sure anyone really thought about the math, either. Variable dice pools versus variable target numbers made for some really swingy results, and that's before tossing in degrees of success and target numbers that require one or more dice to explode multiple times. FASA simplified things a little for combat in SR2, by standardizing on two successes to 'stage' damage results up or down a level, but it took White Wolf until the New World of Darkness to standardize on a fixed target number.
Exalted had a fixed target number, actually.

... Until the Sidereals book showed up.

Kurieg
Jul 19, 2012

RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20
:blizz::gamefreak:

Alien Rope Burn posted:

I love that if the difficulty hits 10 in Storyteller your chances get worse the more dice you have.

The problem with Dramatic failures is that it creates an atmosphere of "If you're not sure that you can succeed, don't even try". Because dramatic failures really are pretty ridiculous.

DigitalRaven
Oct 9, 2012




Zereth posted:

Exalted had a fixed target number, actually.

... Until the Sidereals book showed up.

Trinity had it before Exalted. I hacked Trinity so much...

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Kurieg posted:

The problem with Dramatic failures is that it creates an atmosphere of "If you're not sure that you can succeed, don't even try". Because dramatic failures really are pretty ridiculous.

I was being sarcastic, but yes.

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.

Cythereal posted:

Obviously, but there's definitely a non-antagonist angle to be played there. Take a Chosen and a Queen, and you've got the core of a dysfunctional group of angsty, overly dramatic teenagers who are nevertheless the town's best and only hope against unspeakable horrors - add an Infernal for spice, and a Mortal as someone's family member who's in love with the main villain.

The Chosen, the Queen and the Mortal would be a perfect group composition for a game about playing Buffy but with more teenage melodrama: you've got the one person with supernatural powers to save the town from whatever evil besets it, the Queen and the Mortal are both their trusted friends, but the Queen is actually secretly jealous of the Chosen's power (in spite of the fact that the Queen has all the social power) and the Mortal is just caught up in things way over their head. If you have a group of four, a Witch could act as basically Willow from the later seasons (i.e. the geeky friendly person who is at the same time a ticking time bomb should they go mad with power) and any of the overtly monstrous skins could act as an antagonist to the rest of the group.

Halloween Jack
Sep 11, 2003

La morte non ha sesso

Tulpa posted:

IIRC, SilCore actually showed their math and understood their probabilities pretty intimately. It's actually my go-to 'fix' for dice pool systems (except for Reign, which also actually showed its math and understood its poo poo), to just throw out whatever the normal thing was and use the bits and pieces of SilCore that make sense.

That's not to say that certain line writers didn't understand the system at all, as demonstrated by Jovian Chronicles.

Still, they did do the math in the core rules at least, and it's very non-swingy. It's not quite the same as Dune's roll and keep system, because you get a +1 to your result for every additional 6 you roll in SilCore. This keeps high skill values fairly relevant for more than just reducing swinginess.
Although I was pretty critical of SilCore, that was at a time when I was still in search of the perfect system and had a mile-long list of requirements. Ah, youth. I would probably play it, and the extra-sixes rule is one I would likely steal for Dune if I ever ran it.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

Zereth posted:

Exalted had a fixed target number, actually.

... Until the Sidereals book showed up.

Because Sidereals are huge dicks. :getin:

Luminous Obscurity
Jan 10, 2007

"The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, I've always wanted to see a sci-fi RPG where Earth was generally considered by aliens to be some kind of poisonous hell-planet. We respirate corrosive oxygen, our piss can eventually melt steel, we poison ourselves for fun, and we domesticated our primary predator before we invented the wheel. So everyone has the impression that we're space orcs.

Fun fact, Humans have monstrously high endurance compared to pretty much anything else on Earth. So not only are we Space Orcs, we're Space Orcs that will walk you to death.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Luminous Obscurity posted:

Fun fact, Humans have monstrously high endurance compared to pretty much anything else on Earth. So not only are we Space Orcs, we're Space Orcs that will walk you to death.

Endurance Predators >> Pack Predators

LornMarkus
Nov 8, 2011

Luminous Obscurity posted:

Fun fact, Humans have monstrously high endurance compared to pretty much anything else on Earth. So not only are we Space Orcs, we're Space Orcs that will walk you to death.

Yeah, not sure where I remember hearing it from exactly, but I'm pretty sure more than a few/most animals would die outright from shock at the total loss of a limb whereas a hopped up enough human can just keep on trucking and potentially survive even without advanced medicine.

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine

Luminous Obscurity posted:

Fun fact, Humans have monstrously high endurance compared to pretty much anything else on Earth. So not only are we Space Orcs, we're Space Orcs that will walk you to death.

Indeed. Before we used our impressive brains to invent tools what to kill with, we literally ran other animals to death.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

mllaneza posted:

Endurance Predators >> Pack Predators

And given our social abilities to allow for cooperation and planning, we're more like Endurance Pack Predators. I'm guessing to a gazelle or a cheetah, a group of human hunters would like Jason Voorhees popping up from behind a tree when they thought they were racing away from him.

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine
Yeah, Persistance Hunting is also reliant on pack tactics because it narrows the ability of faster animals to alter direction and burst away. We don't stop and we work in groups, and that can be absolutely terrifying if you're on the wrong end of it.

Young Freud
Nov 25, 2006

Mr. Maltose posted:

Yeah, Persistance Hunting is also reliant on pack tactics because it narrows the ability of faster animals to alter direction and burst away. We don't stop and we work in groups, and that can be absolutely terrifying if you're on the wrong end of it.

Reminds me a bit of Swofford's comment to his fellow Marines in "Jarhead", where he pities the Iraqi Republican Guard, who, up until the Gulf War, had been pretty victorious in conflicts within the region, built up as an elite unit by Saddam, and armed with what they considered the best of equipment, and getting killed and routed by guys who are operating at night, in camouflage, fighting out of visual range or close to it, and have this reputation of being baby-eating monsters. He likens the experience to what it would be like if U.S. Marines would be fighting aliens. It would be as if they suddenly had to fight a bunch of Predators (the alien kind).

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
I mentioned the Monsterhearts game to my tabletop gaming group today after the review of it in this thread sparked my interest. We've agreed to take a break on Friday from our Rogue Trader campaign to be melodramatic teenagers rather than interstellar assholes for a change. Already have a Chosen and an Infernal lined up from my players. :v:

Ratpick
Oct 9, 2012

And no one ate dinner that night.

Cythereal posted:

I mentioned the Monsterhearts game to my tabletop gaming group today after the review of it in this thread sparked my interest. We've agreed to take a break on Friday from our Rogue Trader campaign to be melodramatic teenagers rather than interstellar assholes for a change. Already have a Chosen and an Infernal lined up from my players. :v:

I'm glad to hear that my review has sparked interest in the game! The Chosen and Infernal are bound to result in some great drama: The Chosen's got the entire "Some big bad wants me dead" angle an the Infernal comes with a big bad straight out of the box!

I'd really appreciate it if you could post a report of your game in either this thread or the Apocalypse World thread, as that seems to be where most of the actual Monsterhearts discussion takes place. For my part, I'll try to get another Skin written up today.

PoptartsNinja
May 9, 2008

He is still almost definitely not a spy


Soiled Meat

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, I've always wanted to see a sci-fi RPG where Earth was generally considered by aliens to be some kind of poisonous hell-planet.

Earth's also the densest planet in the Solar System (5.51 grams/cm3), and our iron core is probably bigger than it should be thanks to the impact that made our moon. Earth is something like 81% more massive than Venus (5.204 grams/cm3), which is of very comparable size. Mars (3.94 grams/cm3) is right out. Mercury (5.427 grams/cm3) comes closest but Mercury's mostly iron.

So, in addition to being full of nasty acids, secreting caustic salt and water, and crawling with aggressively infectious bacteria, we're also probably noticeably stronger than another comparable terrestrial species from a comparably sized planet due to Earth's higher gravity.

It's us. We're the horrible space monsters (and so is our planet).

PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Sep 8, 2014

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Ratpick posted:

I'd really appreciate it if you could post a report of your game in either this thread or the Apocalypse World thread, as that seems to be where most of the actual Monsterhearts discussion takes place.

Will do. I'm our usual DM/GM/ST/what-have-you, so I'll write up the inevitable shenanigans. Two of my players even work at a local high school, so this should be entertaining.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

PoptartsNinja posted:

Earth's also the densest planet in the Solar System (5.51 grams/cm3), and our iron core is probably bigger than it should be thanks to the impact that made our moon. Earth is something like 81% more massive than Venus (5.204 grams/cm3), which is of very comparable size. Mars (3.94 grams/cm3) is right out. Mercury (5.427 grams/cm3) comes closest but Mercury's mostly iron.

So, in addition to being full of nasty acids, secreting caustic salt and water, and crawling with aggressively infectious bacteria, we're also probably noticeably stronger than another comparable terrestrial species from a comparably sized planet due to Earth's higher gravity.

It's us. We're the horrible space monsters (and so is our planet).

Fwiw, every planet would be full of relatively horrible monsters since their environmental conditions would be equally as toxic and corrosive to us. Just in different ways. The fact that oxygen is reactive, for example, is what makes it so biologically useful. The same goes with the relative acidity since it help drive reactions.

dwarf74
Sep 2, 2012



Buglord

inklesspen posted:

I've got a first pass result on the writeup archives. This link is not permanent and may go away as work progresses.

Known issues:
  • I suck at web design, even when I'm using Bootstrap
  • Smilies are being hotlinked from SA servers; this is bad
  • Any images posted using the attachment feature are also being hotlinked from SA servers; this is also bad
  • Two of the posts in Halloween Jack's Carcosa writeup are missing. The urls on the wiki for the posts don't work.
  • A lot of the images from older writeups are lost; they point to waffleimages or some such.

Advice on dealing with these problems is welcomed. (My ideal situation is someone steps up to help with the web design and I can focus on keeping the archives reliably up to date.)

Currently I've got a database containing every post from all three threads as well as all the indexes Syrg Sapphire has so generously maintained on the wiki, and I can automatically keep this archive up to date going forward. There's also probably some way I can make the indexing job easier. Happy to talk about that too.
Going way back here. This is awesome. Thank you for this.

theironjef
Aug 11, 2009

The archmage of unexpected stinks.



You know what I'm sick of? Reviewing things anyone has heard of or gives a poo poo about. Here's a review of a LARP we bought for three dollars. It is exactly that good.

System Mastery 27 - Nexus: Live Action Roleplaying - Play This Book, Vol. 1

Grnegsnspm
Oct 20, 2003

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarian 2: Electric Boogaloo

theironjef posted:



You know what I'm sick of? Reviewing things anyone has heard of or gives a poo poo about. Here's a review of a LARP we bought for three dollars. It is exactly that good.

System Mastery 27 - Nexus: Live Action Roleplaying - Play This Book, Vol. 1

At least with this one, the fact that we didn't do any research is excusable since the internet has no idea what the hell this book is.

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry

theironjef posted:



You know what I'm sick of? Reviewing things anyone has heard of or gives a poo poo about. Here's a review of a LARP we bought for three dollars. It is exactly that good.

System Mastery 27 - Nexus: Live Action Roleplaying - Play This Book, Vol. 1

Somebody else was stupid enough to buy that? I am not alone!

unseenlibrarian
Jun 4, 2012

There's only one thing in the mountains that leaves a track like this. The creature of legend that roams the Timberline. My people named him Sasquatch. You call him... Bigfoot.
I saw "Nexus" and 'things no one has ever heard of' and was all "Oh, hey, a Nexus: the infinite city review!" Then I reread what was after the colon and saw the cover art and was sadly disappointed. And also kinda frightened.

Bieeanshee
Aug 21, 2000

Not keen on keening.


Grimey Drawer
I want to say that I've seen that title, but I'd have remembered a cover like that.

I was also halfway hoping that the mystery game was going to be this particularly terrible vampire LARP book a friend had. It was filled with absurd amounts of math (because you really want to be carrying a clipboard around at game), and all of the powers were coded by a shape and a colour... in a book that was printed in black and white, with the colour correspondences printed exactly once at the front of the book.

They had two companion games, Witches and... Demons, maybe. I can't remember. The powers were all thematic as Hell, I'll give them that, but the systems were presented in the most inelegant fashion.

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Alien Rope Burn
Dec 4, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

dwarf74 posted:

Going way back here. This is awesome. Thank you for this.

It's pretty great! I'll be using it as a means to pass some of my reviews on to my friends this way, due to the lack of a paywall. It's even easier to read than pawing through posts, which is handy.

As a caveat-

The FATAL & Friends Wiki has not updated since July or so, since DARKSEID DICK PICS (formerly Syrg Sapphire) stopped updating it then. Apparently this is not news to some, but I don't know how many are aware since it was announced in the general TG chat thread and not here. I'm inquiring to make sure I can update Rifts reviews by occamsnailfile and I, but if you've done a review since around that time, bear in mind it is likely not archived on the wiki.

If anybody wants to pick up that work from DDP, I'm seeing who to inquire with about getting a wiki account these days. I can't imagine anybody wants that burden, but any work put towards ensuring the indexing continues would be appreciated.

Alien Rope Burn fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Sep 9, 2014

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