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PurpleXVI posted:Not sure how kosher it is to call dibs on RPG's, here, but I foolishly promised a friend that I'd review this loving thing if it got funded, once it got published, and it got funded. Oh boy. Ettin already FF'd Nymphology. You could try The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers? Round out the "collection" for the thread. Most of his other notable stuff appears to be contributions to products that probably wouldn't put up with the poo poo he's actually famous for.
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Oct 9, 2014 15:33
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Considering what a big deal they've been, it's almost a little odd I don't have any experience with the 40K RPGs. Granted, I'd be a lot more interested if there was something like a Necromunda variant or an Ork variant. I guess I'd rather play Cockney than posh; I always found the Imperium rather dull, so the laser-like focus of the RPG on their grim greyfaces has done a lot to dilute my interest. Creative enough GMs and players have worked around this, somewhat. Some TG GMs have gotten creative enough with Only War, for instance, to run the characters as gangers instead of typical Guardsmen. Others have basically hacked together the rules of Rogue Trader and Deathwatch to create Deffwotch, the game where you play as Orks posing as a Deathwatch Kill-team, but since you're going along with what the Imperium needs done Imperial Inquisitors will overlook your Orkiness and just sort of roll with the punches. That being said, I wish they officially supported playing as Orks better instead of relying on the creativity of GMs because it is exceedingly reliant on these GMs to attract interest and teach it to people whereas if it was an officially supported product, it would be a lot easier to find games/get guidance.
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Oct 9, 2014 16:00
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It is an unspoken maxim that all Ork games are doomed. Still doesn't stop me from applying freebooters to RT games though. 
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Oct 9, 2014 16:21
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Considering what a big deal they've been, it's almost a little odd I don't have any experience with the 40K RPGs. Granted, I'd be a lot more interested if there was something like a Necromunda variant or an Ork variant. I guess I'd rather play Cockney than posh; I always found the Imperium rather dull, so the laser-like focus of the RPG on their grim greyfaces has done a lot to dilute my interest. That's more or less where I come from too. They have like five active RPGs, and all five are playing as various aspects of the Imperium, with a single exception for playing as fallen Imperium guys. As a diehard player of Tyranids and both kinds of Eldar I can safely say I don't give a poo poo about the faux-catholic seriousfaces that make up humans in the 41st century.
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Oct 9, 2014 16:35
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theironjef posted:
Also Black Crusade is the best because it practically encourages you to go full-on murderhobo and/or over the top wild. The first time my players encountered a boss monster, they disabled its weapons and then asked if they could keep it. They've only gone up from there. Edit: See if you can track down a copy of the Twilight Imperium RPG. Trust me, it exists - I've seen it exactly once in softcover and it seems to date from the late 90's.
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Oct 9, 2014 16:38
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Plague of Hats posted:Ettin already FF'd Nymphology. You could try The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers? Round out the "collection" for the thread. Most of his other notable stuff appears to be contributions to products that probably wouldn't put up with the poo poo he's actually famous for. Don't forget Hentacle, the tentacle-rape card game.
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Oct 9, 2014 16:48
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NGDBSS posted:The funny thing about DH1E was that it actually was still written in-house by GW's Black Industries. Since then they've gone under and FFG has made the other game lines (plus DH splatbooks). There's a quote from the Warhams40k thread, and it goes something like this: quote:Black Crusade is the Thousand Sons sorcerer riding his magic bird and raining hell on a group of Khornates, and periling so hard a bloodletter drop kicks him off of his mount because it manifests right in front of him, and then proceeds to eat his bird in flight. Also, Chaos gets guns that literally shoot Rock 'n Roll at people.
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Oct 9, 2014 16:52
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DigitalRaven posted:Don't forget Hentacle, the tentacle-rape card game.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:13
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I'm curious, is there a source or reasoning for Games Workshop not allowing much in the way of xenos-centered licenses? Granted, it'd fit with their normal policies, which often seem to be centered around leaving money on the table and blowing off the desires of fans, but I was wondering if there was anything more to it.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:33
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I was fairly certain that Rogue Trader characters included rules for orks, kroot, and eldar. Though if I were to guess on reasoning it's just what FFG thinks will sell most based on player base from the table top game.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:38
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PresidentBeard posted:I was fairly certain that Rogue Trader characters included rules for orks, kroot, and eldar. Though if I were to guess on reasoning it's just what FFG thinks will sell most based on player base from the table top game. It does, yes. Also I think there's at least one novel each from the perspective of orks (a graphic novel actually?) and eldar harlequins. It's not a hard rule, it just seems to be an overwhelming majority, to the point where the exceptions are famously singular.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:46
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I picked up the Tau book they released for it and was super disappointed. All Fire caste. You'd think Water and Air would get in for space diplomacy adventures!
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Oct 9, 2014 17:47
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Mors Rattus posted:I picked up the Tau book they released for it and was super disappointed. No! Diplomacy doesn't involve nearly enough killing! In the grim darkness of the Grimdark 41st Grimillenium there is only dark war focused on grim humans on dark planets! 
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Oct 9, 2014 17:55
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PresidentBeard posted:I was fairly certain that Rogue Trader characters included rules for orks, kroot, and eldar. Though if I were to guess on reasoning it's just what FFG thinks will sell most based on player base from the table top game.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:02
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I was just amused by reading how fans were upset that the Tau weren't grim enough so they were grimmed up in newer editions. I just envision some Space Marine whinging about "They hardly ever blow up their own planets, they're making us look bad!"
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Oct 9, 2014 18:12
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I was just amused by reading how fans were upset that the Tau weren't grim enough so they were grimmed up in newer editions. I just envision some Space Marine whinging about "They hardly ever blow up their own planets, they're making us look bad!" Yeah, I rather liked the original Tau. They were interesting, and also not horrible nazi fascists.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:13
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The Tau supplement seemed a little slapdash in more than that respect. As I recall it doesn't give starting wounds for any of the careers, for example. That said I imagine if it was a full-fledged supplement rather than a little mini .pdf deal it might have had more stuff to it but as it is I don't think FFG was guessing wrong when they figured that most of the people buying it wanted guns and battlesuits. To me the very best thing about Dark Heresy 1E will always be how completely and thoroughly hyped everybody was to finally, finally see an official, for-real 40K RPG, the initial 200 limited edition corebooks selling out in six minutes, the game gets its full-fledged release on January 25th at GenCon '08...and on January 28th Games Workshop shuts down their Black Library imprint "to allow them to focus on the commercial success of their novels and core business," killing Dark Heresy almost immediately after release.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:15
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The first problem I have with the 40k games in general is how much loving work it is to create a character. It's a bad idea for a game where "life is cheap and death is random" to a) have complicated chargen and b) have your chargen choices matter a lot. 40k PBPs are really popular on this forum, and get a lot of submissions, so my desire to put hours of work into creating a character is  The second problem is that the 40k RP system seems to me like one of those systems that is really crunch and detailed to little or no purpose. Chief example, there's a poo poo-ton of equipment and combat-related Talents, but does that result in a combat system with interesting tactical choices?
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Oct 9, 2014 18:23
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Halloween Jack posted:You can play aliens in RT, but I don't really feel the need to, because Rogue Traders are the most freebooting YOLO and least grimdark seriousface people in the Imperium. For reference, here are links to the best character ever in a Rogue Trader forums game! http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3669915#post435871222 http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3669915&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post435891682
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Oct 9, 2014 18:34
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeah, I rather liked the original Tau. They were interesting, and also not horrible nazi fascists. People didn't get that the sad part of the Tau is that the Tau were an entire species of early-adventure Call of Cthulhu Investigators. They're the optimistic, heroic guys who would be the heroes of any other sci-fi setting running into a world where a bunch of poo poo they're physically incapable of understanding (because they don't do magic) and the hilarious, awesome misadventures that happen when that happens. Not to mention the times when they absolutely surprise some horrible monster that expects 'simple mortal technology' isn't going to be able to blow train car sized holes in its torso. Original Tau were way better, you are correct. Also, no, the combat system in the 40k RPGs is not especially good, and it's very, very prone to rocket tag. I've had a great deal of fun with them and I think they're good games, but combat has suffered a lot from the system starting out as WHFRP2e INNN SPAAAACE and then trying to go higher powered without re-examining many of the core concepts of combat like armor penetration vs. armor value, PC wounds, static vs. rolled damage, etc. It mostly boils down to stay behind some kind of hard cover and use your most powerful weapon liberally. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 19:03
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I remember some early concept stuff for Dark Heresy before the release that implied it was going to be a -lot- more Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying 2E with more headtubes. Like there were apparently designs for a space ratcatcher with 1d10 space rats on a space stick. There were folks both thrilled and disappointed that this turned out to not be the case.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:10
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Night10194 posted:People didn't get that the sad part of the Tau is that the Tau were an entire species of early-adventure Call of Cthulhu Investigators. They're the optimistic, heroic guys who would be the heroes of any other sci-fi setting running into a world where a bunch of poo poo they're physically incapable of understanding (because they don't do magic) and the hilarious, awesome misadventures that happen when that happens. Not to mention the times when they absolutely surprise some horrible monster that expects 'simple mortal technology' isn't going to be able to blow train car sized holes in its torso. Original Tau were way better, you are correct. I will be totally honest, I'd totally play or run a game of (original) Tau Empire colony-builders. Working together, dealing with disasters, weird inter species politics and in general being the little beacon of joy in the 40k universe.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:25
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Mors Rattus posted:I will be totally honest, I'd totally play or run a game of (original) Tau Empire colony-builders. Working together, dealing with disasters, weird inter species politics and in general being the little beacon of joy in the 40k universe. Exactly. The whole 'The Tau are totally grimdark and evil too, I swear!' is part of the whole taking the whole thing too seriously.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:28
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Well, personally, I can't wait for FFG to finally make a ruling on whether or not Space Marines can get laid.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:28
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Halloween Jack posted:40k PBPs are really popular on this forum, and get a lot of submissions, so my desire to put hours of work into creating a character is Yeah, I cracked open Adeptus Evangelion recently because there was an opening in one of the RP threads and weighing having to wrap my head around an overly complicated chargen + my odds of actually getting in with a newbie character made me  Halloween Jack posted:Well, personally, I can't wait for FFG to finally make a ruling on whether or not Space Marines can get laid. I don't see the issue as long as it's with other Space Marines.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:51
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theironjef posted:
 Dark Heresy was in fact the first 40k RPG followed by Rogue Trader second. What you might be thinking of in this case is the first (or second) edition of the 40k strategy game that was called Rogue Trader.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:52
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Cooked Auto posted:
Yeah, that's on me. I was speaking broady about how Rogue Trader was the original grandfather of what 40k is now. After all, it used to have a three-player format since someone was supposed the GM of every battle.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:08
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theironjef posted:Yeah, that's on me. I was speaking broady about how Rogue Trader was the original grandfather of what 40k is now. After all, it used to have a three-player format since someone was supposed the GM of every battle. It should be noted that I agree with the state of the 40k universe with that it's trying to hard to be serious. FFG on the other is great at injecting a lot of fun references in their 40k games. Such as the time they added a chapter quote from an assassin whose name was from a fan fic, in a later book there is a mention of a certain adept named Grendel who in turn isalso based on a web story of his exploits. I think Only War has least one Team Fortress 2 reference as well in one splatbook.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:28
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FFG in general is much better at handling Warhamms than GW both from a design persepctive and for their ability to actually make the game fun. I personally like super crunchy systems and enjoy that there are a boatton of options, but you are entirely right that it really doesn't gel at all with the life is cheap combat.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:47
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I started drifting away from crunchy rulesets a long while ago, but I'll put up with them if there's a point to them beyond crunch for its own sake. Too often though, that amount of fiddliness has come hand-in-hand with a universe and ruleset that promises horrible things will happen to the character I spent a couple of hours putting together. If you're going to do that... Jesus, get an intern to throw a spreadsheet together, or something.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:11
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Cooked Auto posted:It should be noted that I agree with the state of the 40k universe with that it's trying to hard to be serious.
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Oct 9, 2014 23:31
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theironjef posted:Yeah, that's on me. I was speaking broady about how Rogue Trader was the original grandfather of what 40k is now. After all, it used to have a three-player format since someone was supposed the GM of every battle. You see some crazy stuff in the very first Rogue Trader too, like a hovertank made from a deodorant stick and a plastic spoon. GW didn't always take itself Chapter ApprovedTM seriously.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:59
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NGDBSS posted:Don't forget the reference to Doomrider, a Chaos Space Marine biker of some (silly) repute. Doomrider is an actual wargame unit though, preceding the meme he became on /tg/ by a while. Halloween Jack posted:The first problem I have with the 40k games in general is how much loving work it is to create a character. It's a bad idea for a game where "life is cheap and death is random" to a) have complicated chargen and b) have your chargen choices matter a lot. 40k PBPs are really popular on this forum, and get a lot of submissions, so my desire to put hours of work into creating a character is To your first point, something that bears mentioning is that almost all the 40K PbP games here give out a decent chunk of bonus XP to start which adds to the work that goes into making a character. Default starting level 40K RPG characters aren't really super complicated to make. A lot of the stuff that goes into a character comes pre-assigned, then you get a little dollop of extra XP on top of that. For example in Only War, a fresh-faced character gets 600xp to spend, 300xp if they're a support specialist like a Commissar or a Tech-Priest. That 600xp is enough to get, on average, buy about one to three advances of some sort depending on their cost (sometimes you can squeeze more out of it if you pick up stuff that's super cheap for your character). As to the second point, kinda sorta maybe not really. Nothing you purchase, either gear-wise or talent-wise, is exactly going to radically shift your combat paradigm. Some stuff can change how you approach things...there's a talent that lets you fire heavy weapons without bracing them first which obviously improves your ability to remain mobile while using support weapons, the talent that lets you stand up for free seems kind of pedestrian but since being prone makes you harder to shoot it gives you the ability to play an actual Prone Shooter, etc., but in general it's not that much more tactical than any other RPG in that regard. I will say that in terms of "a band of murdery misfits have adventures involving lots of small-unit shootouts" that I find it runs much more smoothly than something like, say, Shadowrun. Suppressing fire is actually a useful tactic as opposed to "an option that exists, but sucks," being a melee-oriented dude is definitely supported (and viable) alongside ranged characters, the actual fight moves quicker since each attack isn't a contested roll followed by a soak roll followed by maybe another roll for knockdown, and it eventually developed rules for mobs of mooks treated as a single coherent unit that help give you that "mowing down cultists with a heavy bolter" experience without literally requiring the GM run 30 individual NPCs in a fight. The 40K games have a lot of ugly bumps and warts, they're definitely not cutting edge elfgame tech, but they work reasonably well for what they are.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:34
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"Runs more smoothly than Shadowrun" is kind of the archetypical TG example of damning with faint praise.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:50
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Yeah I know. While I'm on the subject FFG's editing is at least no worse than Catalyst's  But for serious, the 40K games are an example of "lots of fiddly modifiers and poo poo everywhere, but when bullets start flying it actually runs pretty quick." A good comparison in that regard might be Eclipse Phase except 40K for all its cruft has waaaaaaay simpler chargen than Eclipse Phase.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:06
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The big problem with DH's math is that it's built with the assumption that you're going to be doing the minor actions that give you bonuses to hit, like aiming, taking cover, and so on. Thankfully, they fixed that in RT, but it's still a pain in the rear end because if you're expected to always take time to aim, why not just increase the base weapon skill?
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Oct 10, 2014 04:17
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I like the FFG 40k games well enough. I think the worst part are the weapon and critical tables, though, which is kind of a huge deal for this type of game. They're fiddly enough you can't memorize them easily unless you're a freak like me, but they're small enough that they can start to feel pretty samey after only a couple months of gaming. It's at least not a deal breaker level of problem.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:21
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Plague of Hats posted:I like the FFG 40k games well enough. I think the worst part are the weapon and critical tables, though, which is kind of a huge deal for this type of game. They're fiddly enough you can't memorize them easily unless you're a freak like me, but they're small enough that they can start to feel pretty samey after only a couple months of gaming. It's at least not a deal breaker level of problem. I dunno, I think the psyker fumble tables are pretty fun.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:23
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Evil Mastermind posted:The big problem with DH's math is that it's built with the assumption that you're going to be doing the minor actions that give you bonuses to hit, like aiming, taking cover, and so on. Well I suppose you could argue that as a character rises in personal skill and capability that it gives them more of an opportunity to say "screw carefully aiming and single-shotting all the time, I need to move over thataway and shoot as many rounds as I can at that rear end in a top hat" and still maintain a reasonable chance for success. Though that players and group are likely to consider a reasonable chance for success is one of those things where you ask ten different people and get eleven different answers.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:49
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theironjef posted:
Few settings scream out for an AW adaption like 40k, get those miserable rules out of the way and you can do amazing things. Luckily they've been done Rogue Trader (complete, go nuts, has Xenos playbooks) http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?board=21.0 Deathwatch (mine, not playable yet) http://pastebin.com/Rm8B5KS6 Commissars (also mine, marginally playable, needs equipment) http://pastebin.com/TATEPx0q Maybe in December I"ll have time to finish marrying both of those with The Regiment http://mightyatom.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-regiment-colonial-marines-25.html and other people trying http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=6379.15 My dream project is to recreate The Wire in a hive city, with Arbites, citizens, criminals, and heretics all being playbooks.
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