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savinhill
Mar 28, 2010

Zythrst posted:

Larrick is a special forces trainer for the Contra's, he was being blackmailed by the couple who got killed and thus was a suspect for the murder. The Jennings approached him as counter intell in order to discover if he was the killer. They decided they didn't think he was the killer, so they resumed the blackmail as KGB, since its not like counter intell agents would want to infiltrate a contra training camp.

I can't remember how much Larrick knew of Phil& Liz's intentions for breaking into the camp, but even if he did know they wanted to kill some of the leaders, he'd still get pissed that they killed the grunts who were just on guard duty type details.

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Hed
Mar 31, 2004

Fun Shoe
Got it, makes sense now. Thanks.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



LostRook posted:

Some people also have the theorized that one of the dead was his lover. Though nothing really supports it.

Yea what a dumb theory. None of them even looked like Keller. :colbert:

precision
May 7, 2006

I AM NO LONGER THE DUMBEST MEATHEAD IDIOT ON THE PLANET
Liz's dedication to brainwashing Paige is kind of putting me off her character to be honest.

I thought her making that friend on the bus was actually gonna be a plot point of some kind, weird how it hasn't come up again at all.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?

precision posted:

Liz's dedication to brainwashing Paige is kind of putting me off her character to be honest.

Killing US military personnel, blackmailing a gay man, and allowing comrades to be murdered are all okay, but by god if you stop your daughter from going to church.

It's there to show that Elizabeth and Phil, despite seemingly (particularly in Phil's case) having ingrained themselves in American culture, still hold their beliefs above all. Sure, the writers can make Elizabeth rant about Reagan and the horrors of capitalism, but showing that their resolve is so high that they are blinded by hatred and willing to push their daughter away is much more powerful.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust

precision posted:

Liz's dedication to brainwashing Paige is kind of putting me off her character to be honest.

I thought her making that friend on the bus was actually gonna be a plot point of some kind, weird how it hasn't come up again at all.

I'm sure it is a plot point. She did introduce Page to that weird pastor guy that accepts $600 donations from children. And the actor playing the pastor is bald in real life so he's wearing a wig. Do not trust people that wears wigs.

Fetus Tree
Feb 2, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!
yeah i don't really dig elizabeth right now either, mainly because she terrifies me

Hand of the King
May 11, 2012
I would let Liz kill me :allears:

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"
Always be wary of a female assassin's magic heart attack aerosol whilst swimming laps alone in a pool.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your launch.... 'cause mine's gonna be suborbital

Gonz posted:

Always be wary of a female assassin's magic heart attack aerosol whilst swimming laps alone in a pool.

Pretty sure it was a nerve agent of some kind, hence her taking what I could only assume was a pyridostigmine pill.

Generic American
Mar 15, 2012

I love my Peng


precision posted:

Liz's dedication to brainwashing Paige is kind of putting me off her character to be honest.
I don't wanna really get into playing the devil's advocate too much here, since we all know what side these characters are playing for, but that's definitely not the read I was taking away from their scenes. "Not being Christian" isn't really brainwashing her- Elizabeth, and to a lesser extent, Philip, were both raised outside of religion and are terrified that the church is the one doing the brainwashing, and they want to keep her the gently caress away from it. It seemed more like a reactionary gut-instinct than a conscious effort. Sure, you could argue that them suspecting the church of brainwashing her and trying to keep her away from it is, in itself, brainwashing as well... but then we start getting into a really nebulous territory, and the term loses a lot of meaning.

And from the outside looking in, I think that's a pretty understandable reaction for this situation. Despite never raising her to show an interest, this church still somehow "got" to her in the same way that Phil and Liz (both highly-trained spies) often go after people themselves. That's a pretty terrifying concept for a couple of people who already aren't big fans of religion. And let's be honest; with how it's been presented so far, this church is sketchy as gently caress from their perspective (whether or not it actually pans out, or is just skewed with protagonist-bias). She just randomly starts going in secret like it's some kind of cult, then when she gets caught and receives a small slap on the wrist for lying about it, she suddenly "donates" all of the money that she has access to without any oversight from her parents, which just reeks of a scam. Even if it is entirely benign, it doesn't look great and plays right into the suspicion of religion being a dishonest organization.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



precision posted:

Liz's dedication to brainwashing Paige is kind of putting me off her character to be honest.

I thought her making that friend on the bus was actually gonna be a plot point of some kind, weird how it hasn't come up again at all.

Yea I thought the friend on the bus would turn out to be another soviet spy, specifically one of the ones Moscow said they had watching the kids. But I guess not.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your launch.... 'cause mine's gonna be suborbital
The entire thing that's putting me off about the religious angle is that it's showing HORRIBLE loving tradecraft on behalf of Philip and Liz. The last thing they should want is Paige crying to all her new Jesus Buddies about how much her parents don't understand and persecute her ~faith~, which in turn will lead to at least one of them talking with their parents about it, which in combination with Philip visiting the preacher/pastor dressed in his MURDERSUIT will start raising some suspicions.

Maybe not "maybe they're godless Russian spies" suspicions at first, but definitely the "they're weird and maybe we should try to find out why/'save' them" kind.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 08:43 on May 3, 2014

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
You would think KGB deep cover agents would be the most jesusey people around.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your launch.... 'cause mine's gonna be suborbital

Baloogan posted:

You would think KGB deep cover agents would be the most jesusey people around.

Or at least "Jesusey" enough that people would be apt to say "they're good people" and dismiss anything potentially bad they hear about them because "they're good people."

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"
The reason nobody suspected the 9/11 hijackers was due to the fact that they'd consistantly frequent strip clubs and drink alcohol and do all sorts of non-Islamic extremist stuff. They blended right in.

You're right. Philip and Elizabeth being so viciously anti-religion could backfire on them somewhere down the road and arouse the suspicions of some random churchgoing person in the community. If not this season, then next season.

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

Gonz posted:

The reason nobody suspected the 9/11 hijackers was due to the fact that they'd consistantly frequent strip clubs and drink alcohol and do all sorts of non-Islamic extremist stuff. They blended right in.

If memory serves, some of them went via flights originating in Portland, Maine, an airport which has 10 whole gates and, I'm assuming, security to match (at least pre-9/11).

quote:

You're right. Philip and Elizabeth being so viciously anti-religion could backfire on them somewhere down the road and arouse the suspicions of some random churchgoing person in the community. If not this season, then next season.

I think something this season is really hammering in is that the Achilles Heel of the Directive S agents is their American-born children. The chaos at the amusement park in episode 1 arose partially because buddy-agent recognized a threat to his family, and Phillip subsequently got into poo poo with Elizabeth for even remotely putting Henry in harm's way. Especially after the triple-murder, I can perfectly understand why our heroes are starting to get irrational with the way they react to their children's actions.

So, right. Of loving course they're being pretty stupid with Paige's involvement in the church. But, look at it this way: science has repeatedly shown that the human brain craves belief in something grander, be it religion, strong lack of religion, or something else (astrology? :downs: ). Phil and Liz were raised with communism and the Soviet state, and their extreme faith in those ideals propels them forward in their secret war behind enemy lines.

In season one, we saw a lot of Soviet talk about American consumerism, like Nina talking to her boss about how she enjoys American goods but doesn't lose sight of the bigger picture. Now, Phil and Liz have done a very careful job of shielding their children from worshiping American Stuff & Things, as we see with Henry's deprivation of a gaming console. But, of course, they're not raising their American cover family to be red-flag-waving communists, either. So, lacking a firm belief in a social structure, it's only natural that Paige as a budding adolescent would turn to a warm, accepting religion.

I guess it's just ultimately black humor that the Christian faith is causing Liz and Phil to behave as irrationally as they perceive Paige to be behaving.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your launch.... 'cause mine's gonna be suborbital

Gonz posted:

The reason nobody suspected the 9/11 hijackers was due to the fact that they'd consistantly frequent strip clubs and drink alcohol and do all sorts of non-Islamic extremist stuff. They blended right in.

You're right. Philip and Elizabeth being so viciously anti-religion could backfire on them somewhere down the road and arouse the suspicions of some random churchgoing person in the community. If not this season, then next season.

Conversely...

"Hey, my friend Paige says her parents are angry that she loves Jesus."

"That's *terrible*, honey...which ones are they again?"

"They live five streets over, house kinda on the middle of the block."

"Oh, the one with the new Camaro outside?"

"Yeah."

"I wouldn't worry about it, sweetie - he sprung for the IROC-Z package, which means God hates him and showed it by removing his good sense."

-----

And yes, they're really overplaying Liz's ultra-nationalism. At this point, if Stan's suspicions are piqued again, all he really needs to do is pull a High Fidelity and blast the Soviet National Anthem outside of their house and Liz would burst through the loving walls like Roger Rabbit in the bar scene.

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 10:53 on May 3, 2014

Alec Bald Snatch
Sep 12, 2012

by exmarx

Propaganda Machine posted:

If memory serves, some of them went via flights originating in Portland, Maine, an airport which has 10 whole gates and, I'm assuming, security to match (at least pre-9/11).

Heh, it's still pretty low-key there today.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

Phil and Liz are going to have like the worst PTSD ever, aren't they?

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010

mobby_6kl posted:

Phil and Liz are going to have like the worst PTSD ever, aren't they?

It's scary to think of how they'll act when it gets worse than it already is

Fetus Tree
Feb 2, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!
its scary to think about what theyre going to be forced to do as the ussr gets more desperate

A_Raving_Loon
Dec 12, 2008

Subtle
Quick to Anger
I wonder if this religion subplot will lead into a story about the Satanic Panic. The timing would be about right for it to become a thing in season 3, and a modern witch hunt and moral panic has a lot of potential for use in an espionage show.

A_Raving_Loon fucked around with this message at 01:37 on May 4, 2014

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS
If the FBI's snooping gets any closer, Phil and Liz might well have a Stanic panic.

UnfortunateSexFart
May 18, 2008

𒃻 𒌓𒁉𒋫 𒆷𒁀𒅅𒆷
𒆠𒂖 𒌉 𒌫 𒁮𒈠𒈾𒅗 𒂉 𒉡𒌒𒂉𒊑


I just bought season 1 of this for my dad, an ex-American who moved our family to New Zealand because he was so afraid of Reagan's warmongering. Almost afraid to give it to him because it'll make him super paranoid.

Gonz posted:

The reason nobody suspected the 9/11 hijackers was due to the fact that they'd consistantly frequent strip clubs and drink alcohol and do all sorts of non-Islamic extremist stuff. They blended right in.


I worked as a doorman at a casino for a while and was shocked by the number of Saudis that would come in. They'd look all pious in their ID (with traditional headwear etc) but enter the casino looking like Puff Daddy.

Dr.Caligari
May 5, 2005

"Here's a big, beautiful avatar for someone"

Generic American posted:

She just randomly starts going in secret like it's some kind of cult, then when she gets caught and receives a small slap on the wrist for lying about it, she suddenly "donates" all of the money that she has access to without any oversight from her parents, which just reeks of a scam. Even if it is entirely benign, it doesn't look great and plays right into the suspicion of religion being a dishonest organization.

The only thing about this is that it was the preacher (and friend) that told Phil and Liz about that money Paige donated. If they were wanting to play Paige, I don't think they would have let that slip to her parents.

cenotaph
Mar 2, 2013



I don't think they're playing her, but they might be so up their own asses about Christian Values that they didn't consider that Paige wouldn't run a sizable donation past her parents. Also if the church had any sense they should have reprimanded Paige about her actions as well. Like the book says, honor thy father and thy mother unless they wouldn't want you to give us $600.

Keyser_Soze
May 5, 2009

Pillbug
I don't think they specified she gave it all at once and it wouldn't be noticeable if she was pushing in $100 per month.

precision
May 7, 2006

I AM NO LONGER THE DUMBEST MEATHEAD IDIOT ON THE PLANET
Showing butts is getting to be a running joke/theme this season I see.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Had they previously hinted that Philip knew about the letter? It seems like something Elizabeth would have kept to herself.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C
Well that's a twist.

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013
Jeez, their contact really gets around.

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?
Why is the only gun in her house all the way back in the bathroom?

e: gently caress. Goodbye pseudo-Maggs.

Baronash fucked around with this message at 02:44 on May 8, 2014

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

Awwww, poor Kate

beanieson
Sep 25, 2008

I had the opportunity to change literally anything about the world and I used it to get a new av
welp :stare:

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013
Wow, that terrible Fiat commercial just killed my desire to see Godzilla. Good job marketing.

Hand of the King
May 11, 2012
I don't understand the significance of the message.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

I will say this for zeljko Ivanek, the man plays a good cancer patient., and just about anything else for that matter,

precision
May 7, 2006

I AM NO LONGER THE DUMBEST MEATHEAD IDIOT ON THE PLANET
'Nam Phil best Phil.

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Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe

howe_sam posted:

I will say this for zeljko Ivanek, the man plays a good cancer patient., and just about anything else for that matter,

Off the top of my head in the past 6/7 years he's been in: The Event, Heroes, The Americans, True Blood, and Damages. He's usually the one of the best actors in each series too.

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