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i just wanted to join in the fun, hold on and lemme find a pdf that opens up with a broken font
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Mar 26, 2014 20:35
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lmao good linux stuff guys
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Mar 26, 2014 21:24
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Thanks!
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Mar 26, 2014 21:59
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gnome3 rules and fedora is a lot better than it used to be. i like the selinux rule helper thing they have now, that's aces. thanks, suspicious dish!
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Mar 27, 2014 07:10
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Suspicious Dish posted:Tray icons are bad and pretty much everybody is looking forward to getting rid of them. They had the good sense to ban everything that isn't Wine from the systray though 
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Mar 27, 2014 07:14
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updating to gnome 3.12. hail satan. edit this is nice. I miss the one extension I had installed though, dash-to-dock or whatever it was called cowboy beepboop fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Mar 27, 2014 |
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Mar 27, 2014 08:09
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i'm running cinnamon, i just can't part with that gnome 2 like interface.
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Mar 27, 2014 09:03
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spankmeister posted:i'm running cinnamon, i just can't part with that gnome 2 like interface. you'll join this decade sometime, i'm sure
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Mar 27, 2014 10:30
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oval office AND PASTE posted:you'll join this decade sometime, i'm sure Maybe in 2020.
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Mar 27, 2014 10:52
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Berkshire Hunts posted:gnome3 rules and fedora is a lot better than it used to be. i like the selinux rule helper thing they have now, that's aces. thanks, suspicious dish! the whose whats now?
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Mar 27, 2014 13:57
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ShadowHawk posted:It's me, I'm the guy who saved XEmbed tray icon support in Unity (to make Wine apps work since some Windows programs rely on their systray for core functionality). I'm actually curious: are system tray icons in Windows just the exact same thing? A window you can draw onto by receiving WM_PAINT messages and such? Because if so, yeah, we need to figure out what to do with Wine, because XEmbed is the only way you can emulate something like that.
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Mar 27, 2014 13:58
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create a tiny little window called GAY BABY JAIL for windows notification area icons
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Mar 27, 2014 14:39
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gnome3 ftw but on my ultimate pos work cimputer i use xubuntu because it doesnt lag so bad am i doing this right?
Smythe fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Mar 27, 2014 |
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Mar 27, 2014 18:05
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Suspicious Dish posted:the whose whats now? the little notification thing that pops up when selinux breaks something that says "We notice selinux broke that thing you're trying to do. if you're sure you want to do it anyway here's the selinux rule you need to set so it doesnt break in the future"
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Mar 27, 2014 18:20
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Ah yes the "please run this magic command in a scary text box as root" notification. Yes that's one of the great user interface design decisions to make your computer more friendly and approachable than ever. People are mad because we flat out stole it from iOS.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:23
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If you're curious that notification / sealert was invented by a different team. They don't listen to a drat thing we tell them in terms of user interface design. We wrote up like a 30 page Google Doc with detailed user experience studies showing them why their UI sucks, and suggestions to improve. Their response was that they shouldn't make it more user-friendly: idiots who don't know what the terminal is shouldn't be running Linux in the first place.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:24
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That was an actual thing that a coworker said to my face. the infighting is coming from within the red hat
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Mar 27, 2014 18:25
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Suspicious Dish posted:Their response was that they shouldn't make it more user-friendly: idiots who don't know what the terminal is shouldn't be running Linux in the first place. this is true though. in fact its better not to use linux at all
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Mar 27, 2014 18:27
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"real people use MS-DOS. gently caress this windows poo poo. abort/retry/fail for life" - my coworker
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Mar 27, 2014 18:31
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Mr Dog posted:create a tiny little window called GAY BABY JAIL for windows notification area icons
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Mar 27, 2014 18:32
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I mean, it doesn't have any other option, so I don't blame it.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:33
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Suspicious Dish posted:I'm actually curious: are system tray icons in Windows just the exact same thing? A window you can draw onto by receiving WM_PAINT messages and such? Because if so, yeah, we need to figure out what to do with Wine, because XEmbed is the only way you can emulate something like that. 1) Behave differently on left and right click 2) Draw something that's not a menu 3) Draw non-standard (or even non-rectangular) bits of interface on the screen without bringing up an actual window 4) Be a service launched at login 5) Be the only way to quit (or sometimes interact with at all) a running application 6) Have their own color and theming scheme independent of the system So, yeah, you need XEmbed "legacy" support for Wine. And maybe lovely Java apps.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:39
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Suspicious Dish posted:
i sort of agree, if you don't know what a terminal is selinux is overkill
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Mar 27, 2014 18:39
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Which is of course why we enable it by default on desktop machines. The SELinux team thinks that 1) it should be enabled everywhere, 2) everybody should learn to use it, and if you can't, you're a loving grandma who doesn't deserve to use Linux. Instead, she buys a Chromebook or an Android machine.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:46
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IT'S FUNNY HOW BOTH ANDROID AND CHROMEOS HAVE LINUX AND SELINUX AND DON'T REQUIRE OBSCURE TERMINAL COMMANDS TO MAKE poo poo HAPPEN
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Mar 27, 2014 18:47
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Suspicious Dish posted:That was an actual thing that a coworker said to my face. In Ubuntu we don't strictly have "the UX guys" or "the Security guys". Especially when that's tied to employment, you end up with people believing that they have their own little silo to protect. Worse, sometimes people think that something within another silo is somebody else's problem -- even benignly not wanting to step on other's toes. Instead, everyone with upload rights is just a developer and can upload any package to Universe or to Main+Universe. Sure, there are people who work on particular things (eg me and Wine), and there are people who even get paid to work on certain particular things (eg most Canonical staff), but part of our process and organization makes everything feel like a shared burden.
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Mar 27, 2014 18:56
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We'd love security and usability to be things everybody should be thinking of. Keep in mind, we aren't UX experts or a UX team in general. All of us are engineers who work closely with designers, and we taught ourselves to be thinking about usability all the time. Keep in mind, our team has been pushing hard to have the Fedora, Developer Experience, and Core Desktop teams merged. We even made a bit of progress towards that. My former boss quit in an attempt to reorg the whole group of Platform Engineering. Unfortunately, right at the same time my boss quit, his boss quit. It didn't go off as planned.
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Mar 27, 2014 19:05
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Suspicious Dish posted:Ah yes the "please run this magic command in a scary text box as root" notification. kindly realize that the desktop wars are over, fedora and gnome and whatnot did in fact *not* win, ios comparisons are not relevant, and none of the users you actually ended up with will go "oh, scary", though possibly "hmm, inconvenient"
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Mar 27, 2014 19:24
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the desktop wars are over, kde won
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Mar 27, 2014 19:28
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only until the display server wars heat up (you can try to argue that x11 is irreplaceable but then systemd migration shows that you're wrong & foolish) Gazpacho fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Mar 27, 2014 |
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Mar 27, 2014 20:56
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Suspicious Dish posted:That was an actual thing that a coworker said to my face. that... sounds quite amazingly dysfunctional, between that and yum being a steaming pile that never gets fixed/replaced because it's somebody's baby. maybe you should make a passive-aggressive blog post about it, that seems to be how things get fixed in linux land (i wish i was being sarcastic)
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Mar 27, 2014 20:58
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whats wrong w/ yum?
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Mar 27, 2014 21:01
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suspicious dish ranted a few times already about yum but I feel the need confirm one of the points: it's ridiculously slow.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:10
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oh yeah the index updates do take forever
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Mar 27, 2014 21:11
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just installed Fedora on a laptop I had laying around that was usually running win7/8 (poorly). the installation was fast and smooth, sound works out of the box, mouse gestures work out of the box, FN-shortcuts on my keyboard work out of the box i am amazed. also, it's way faster on this than in windows.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:13
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Granbar posted:just installed Fedora on a laptop I had laying around that was usually running win7/8 (poorly). Thanks. This sort of stuff means a lot to me.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:20
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Mr Dog posted:that... sounds quite amazingly dysfunctional, between that and yum being a steaming pile that never gets fixed/replaced because it's somebody's baby. maybe you should make a passive-aggressive blog post about it, that seems to be how things get fixed in linux land Yeah. Think of a typical Linux engineer. Opinionated, has a long beard, loves using "Crapple" and "Micro$oft". "GREEN IS MY PEPPER" is the best joke the world has ever heard. Now build a company out of 5,000 of them. It's surprising how well the dnf project is going.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:21
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Granbar posted:just installed Fedora on a laptop I had laying around that was usually running win7/8 (poorly). i'm glad linux is finally better than windows. it's amazing what a bunch of talented programmers can do when they're dedicated to disrupting proprietary software. great job, microsoft devs!
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Mar 27, 2014 21:23
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I mean, I've talked about why I think packaging is fundamentally broken as a software distribution model in this thread before. I'm not going to yammer on about it anymore.
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Mar 27, 2014 21:23
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Suspicious Dish posted:Yeah. Think of a typical Linux engineer. Opinionated, has a long beard, loves using "Crapple" and "Micro$oft". "GREEN IS MY PEPPER" is the best joke the world has ever heard. tbf even in the "good old days" i am pretty sure this is what Sun looked like, too you can't have unix without beardos (if you try, you end up with osx. nobody deserves that)
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Mar 27, 2014 21:36
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