Linux: everything cobold is gnu again - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: everything cobold is gnu again

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pram: Jun 10, 2001

penus de milo posted:

how long do you have to use lunix for before you can do the thing you actually wanted to do on the computer instead of just loving with the operating system to cajole it into doing basic poo poo

install osx

# ? May 26, 2014 20:53

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# ? May 29, 2023 04:14

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

penus de milo posted:

how long do you have to use lunix for before you can do the thing you actually wanted to do on the computer instead of just loving with the operating system to cajole it into doing basic poo poo

my first answer was kinda snarky so here is the real answer: nobody ever really learned jack poo poo about unix from sitting and reading a book or installing mint and dicking around at home

you pick a lot of this poo poo up from being part of a larger community of unix desktop users who all need to do work

the remainder you learn while writing unix software. (if you aren't writing software for unix why do you want a unix desktop in the first place?) most of the dumb gotchas in the cli and idiocy about /dev and poo poo just kinda fall into place when you know why all that dumb poo poo is that way

# ? May 26, 2014 20:56

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

pram posted:

install osx

osx is the worst of all worlds

it's a proprietary clusterfuck like windows, but it's a really lovely and terrible unix from the 1980s. i guess if all you want to do is check your stebemail and masturbate to daring fireball blogposts it is probably ok

if you wanted a unix desktop, to write software you will later deploy to real non-joke unix, it is a bad choice

# ? May 26, 2014 20:58

pram: Jun 10, 2001

lol no

you can do literally everything with homebrew and not deal with amateur desktop software

# ? May 26, 2014 20:58

penus de milo: Mar 9, 2002; CHAR CHAR

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

my first answer was kinda snarky so here is the real answer: nobody ever really learned jack poo poo about unix from sitting and reading a book or installing mint and dicking around at home

you pick a lot of this poo poo up from being part of a larger community of unix desktop users who all need to do work

the remainder you learn while writing unix software. (if you aren't writing software for unix why do you want a unix desktop in the first place?) most of the dumb gotchas in the cli and idiocy about /dev and poo poo just kinda fall into place when you know why all that dumb poo poo is that way

gotta say mate that's a lot of effort to use a computer

i'm with pram on this one, just get os x instead

# ? May 26, 2014 21:36

Smythe: Oct 12, 2003; no meds = f4

quote:

PIPELIGHT: USE SILVERLIGHT IN YOUR LINUX BROWSER TO WATCH NETFLIX, MAXDOME VIDEOS AND MORE
Written by Andrew | Date: Thursday, August 22, 2013

Pipelight is project that brings Silverlight to any Linux browser that supports the Netscape Plugin API. Using it, you can use services that require Silverlight, such as Netflix, in native Linux web browsers like Firefox, Chrome or Midori.

Netflix Google Chrome Linux

Pipelight combines the effort by Erich E. Hoover (the Netflix Desktop developer) with a new browser plugin which - unlike Netflix Desktop which requires a Windows version of Firefox to run under Wine -, lets you access services that require Microsoft Silverlight using native Linux web browsers.

This solution isn't Wine-free because the browser plugin continues to use Wine however, this shouldn't have a big impact on performance:

"Pipelight consists out of two parts: A Linux library which is loaded into the browser and a Windows program started in Wine. The Windows program, called pluginloader.exe, simply simulates a browser and loads the Silverlight DLLs. When you open a page with a Silverlight application the library will send all commands from the browser through a pipe to the Windows process and act like a bridge between your browser and Silverlight. The used pipes do not have any big impact on the speed of the rendered video since all the video and audio data is not send through the pipe. Only the initialization parameters and (sometimes) the network traffic is send through them."

According to the Pipelight website, the plugin has been confirmed to work "almost perfectly" using Microsoft Silverlight 5 for the following websites: Maxdome, Netflix and Sumo 2.

I've tested Pipelight with Netflix, under Chrome (Ubuntu 13.10) and I can confirm it works (and the playback was smooth!), as you can see in the screenshots in this article. Update: I've also tested it with Firefox and it works, but sometimes the browser freezes, something which doesn't happen with Chrome so I recommend using Chrome / Chromium with Pipelight.

Install Pipelight in Ubuntu

Microsoft Silverlight Google Chrome Linux

Before proceeding, it's strongly recommended to close your web browser. Without doing this, the plugin may fail to install or crash the browser (you can copy the instructions below to a text editor).

1. If you've installed the old Pipelight version, remove it before proceeding:
sudo apt-get remove pipelight

To add the Pipelight stable and Compholio PPAs and install Pipelight in Ubuntu, use the following commands:
sudo apt-add-repository ppa:pipelight/stable
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install pipelight-multi

Then, you can install the Silverlight plugin using the following command:
- system-wide:
sudo pipelight-plugin --enable silverlight
- for your user only:
pipelight-plugin --enable silverlight

By default, this will install Silverlight 5.1, but you can install a different version, for instane 5.0, by using this command instead (don't use "sudo" if you don't want to install it system-wide):
sudo pipelight-plugin --disable silverlight --enable silverlight5.0

Once installed, start your browser and try THIS test Silverlight applet. If it doesn't work, check if Silverlight is available in your browser plugin list (e.g.: you can type "about :plugins" in the address bar).

i did it. now i can use the wizards.com d&d character builder for me elite sesh 2nit. peep the stream if u dare

# ? May 26, 2014 21:43

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Smythe posted:

i did it. now i can use the wizards.com d&d character builder for me elite sesh 2nit. peep the stream if u dare

you have to pay for that? drat, i was gonna fool around with it for a bit

# ? May 26, 2014 21:49

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

osx is the worst of all worlds

it's a proprietary clusterfuck like windows, but it's a really lovely and terrible unix from the 1980s. i guess if all you want to do is check your stebemail and masturbate to daring fireball blogposts it is probably ok

if you wanted a unix desktop, to write software you will later deploy to real non-joke unix, it is a bad choice

lmao

bsd you're out of your league here

# ? May 26, 2014 21:55

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

pram posted:

lol no

you can do literally everything with homebrew and not deal with amateur desktop software

homebrew is a shitshow disaster

# ? May 26, 2014 21:59

pram: Jun 10, 2001

hmm nope

# ? May 26, 2014 21:59

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

penus de milo posted:

gotta say mate that's a lot of effort to use a computer

i'm with pram on this one, just get os x instead

osx is a really bad unix

you might like it for other things but holy poo poo is it a terrible unix

# ? May 26, 2014 21:59

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

What OS do you run, Notorious b.s.d.?

# ? May 26, 2014 22:00

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

i miss the era when everyone had a solaris workstation and that was that

# ? May 26, 2014 22:00

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Suspicious Dish posted:

What OS do you run, Notorious b.s.d.?

linux. shitloads of linux. linux at home, linux at work, linux in prod

i guess i have some osx taint on my phone and my htpc but i am not really concerned with how good the unix is on my phone

# ? May 26, 2014 22:01

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Which Linux OS do you run, though? Debian?

# ? May 26, 2014 22:02

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

osx is a really bad unix

you might like it for other things but holy poo poo is it a terrible unix

its a certified unix idk what else you want

# ? May 26, 2014 22:15

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

linux. shitloads of linux. linux at home, linux at work, linux in prod

i guess i have some osx taint on my phone and my htpc but i am not really concerned with how good the unix is on my phone

this explains a lot

# ? May 26, 2014 22:16

theadder: Dec 30, 2011

pram posted:

install osx

# ? May 26, 2014 22:16

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

true mach is weird but in my perfect world we'd be on L4 style microkernels anyway

rip Jochen Liedtke

# ? May 26, 2014 22:19

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Malcolm XML posted:

this explains a lot

yeah no poo poo that i write software that deploys on linux so i want a linux desktop who coulda guessed

# ? May 26, 2014 22:33

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Malcolm XML posted:

its a certified unix idk what else you want

the fact that osx was able to pass SUSv3 is the final word on how loving bad and useless SUS is

# ? May 26, 2014 22:34

prefect: Sep 11, 2001; No one, Woodhouse.
No one.; Dead Man’s Band

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the fact that osx was able to pass SUSv3 is the final word on how loving bad and useless SUS is

serious question: what's wrong with it?

# ? May 26, 2014 22:37

Malcolm XML: Aug 8, 2009; I always knew it would end like ｔｈｉｓ．

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

the fact that osx was able to pass SUSv3 is the final word on how loving bad and useless SUS is

i'm not really seeing what's so bad about osx as a unix

works4me and other non sperglords

# ? May 26, 2014 22:43

The Management: Jan 2, 2010; sup, bitch?

Malcolm XML posted:

i'm not really seeing what's so bad about osx as a unix

works4me and other non sperglords

But you see it's not like linux so it's bad because i work with linux so anything that isn't linux doesn't meet my needs so therefore it's bad.

# ? May 26, 2014 23:24

Sniep: Mar 28, 2004; All I needed was that fatty blunt...

King of Breakfast

The Management posted:

But you see it's not like linux so it's bad because i work with linux so anything that isn't linux doesn't meet my needs so therefore it's bad.

thats a pretty hilarious way to artificially silo ones career unnecessarily

"uh yes i am comfortable in linux but NO UNIX HERE! Solaris? NOPE. HP-UX? NOPE!

# ? May 26, 2014 23:27

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; The company has no assets of any significant value.

pram posted:

lol no

you can do literally everything with homebrew and not deal with amateur desktop software

Homebrew is not exactly a way of avoiding "amateur desktop software"

And yes, OSX is a lovely Unix. They still ship terminal programs with versions that are literally 9 years out of date because Apple is worried GPL-3 software might hinder their ability to claim they own rounded corners in bullshit lawsuits against competitors.

# ? May 26, 2014 23:57

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Malcolm XML posted:

i'm not really seeing what's so bad about osx as a unix

works4me and other non sperglords

bad X11 support
broken threading (mach is bad)
hilarious syscall overhead (mach is bad)
perverse SCO-like filesystem layout
the filesystem itself is bad (slow)
the filesystem itself is bad (case preserving but not sensitive except when...)
non-standard AAA
uselessly broken nfs
no package system

this is just off the top of my head

it takes hard work to be worse than the old proprietary unixes (aix, solaris, hpux)

# ? May 27, 2014 00:08

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

wasnt osx on gcc 3.x or some garbage until 4 seconds ago

i use linux all over and its aight, i first got the hang of it w/ gentoo 1.4 whenever that had just come out (2002ish idk), which i wouldnt recommend (esp not now that its dead) but it was p good as a crash course on figuring out what poo poo was. knowing a linux is also v useful for employment purposes

# ? May 27, 2014 00:28

pram: Jun 10, 2001

ShadowHawk posted:

Homebrew is not exactly a way of avoiding "amateur desktop software"

yes it is because i get to use aqua and not some joke pos like gnome

# ? May 27, 2014 01:14

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Progressive JPEG posted:

wasnt osx on gcc 3.x or some garbage until 4 seconds ago

osx has always lagged behind because apple is lazy about porting their proprietary stuff and gcc deliberately makes it hard to keep proprietary components current w/ needless changes

apple stopped updating gcc entirely as of 4.2.1 because they are afraid of gpl 3

# ? May 27, 2014 01:21

pram: Jun 10, 2001

because they made llvm and clang

# ? May 27, 2014 01:22

pram: Jun 10, 2001

because gpl 3 is garbage

# ? May 27, 2014 01:23

pram: Jun 10, 2001

if gpl 3 is so necessary why is the linux kernel gpl 2 fuckheads

# ? May 27, 2014 01:23

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

bad X11 support

broken threading (mach is bad)

hilarious syscall overhead (mach is bad)

perverse SCO-like filesystem layout

the filesystem itself is bad (slow)

the filesystem itself is bad (case preserving but not sensitive except when...)

non-standard AAA

uselessly broken nfs

no package system

this is just off the top of my head

it takes hard work to be worse than the old proprietary unixes (aix, solaris, hpux)

X11 support is not something worth having — we're finally getting rid of it on Linux as well.

I'm not an expert in Mach or HFS internals, so I won't say anything about their performance characteristics. I have no idea what's wrong with the filesystem layout, though. I have no idea what "AAA" means, and Googling for "AAA OS X" or "AAA Linux" only tells me about AAA games coming to Linux or OS X through Steam.

NFS is bad and should be broken. Yes, really. Traditional Linux Package systems aren't a thing worth having for a user operating system. We've been over this before. For developer OSes, they make a bit more sense, but not a lot, given that the way the app system works on all commercial OSes is that you bundle your dependencies, because it's completely unscalable to do it any other way.

# ? May 27, 2014 01:28

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

pram posted:

if gpl 3 is so necessary why is the linux kernel gpl 2 fuckheads

Because tracking down all the contributors and copyright owners in the the Linux kernel and asking them to either assign copyrights or allow their works to be relicensed under the GPL3 is a pain, and nobody wants to do it.

That said, I don't think the GPL3 is a good idea.

# ? May 27, 2014 01:29

gabensraum: Sep 16, 2003; LOAD "NICE!",8,1

everything old is gnu again

# ? May 27, 2014 01:50

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

Suspicious Dish posted:

X11 support is not something worth having — we're finally getting rid of it on Linux as well.

lol

Suspicious Dish posted:

I'm not an expert in Mach or HFS internals, so I won't say anything about their performance characteristics.

orders of magnitude difference

mach is loving garbage as a unix kernel because it was not meant to be a unix kernel. it was a research platform, and they bodged some minimal unix support to host userspace apps to further the research work. (see also: l4linux)

circa 1987 steve jobs wanted to have his own unix as cheap as possible, and bodging together something based on mach was the cheapest shittiest solution to get his hardware startup off the ground. if NeXT engineers had known we would be living with it still in 2014 i think they woulda killed themselves

Suspicious Dish posted:

I have no idea what "AAA" means, and Googling for "AAA OS X" or "AAA Linux" only tells me about AAA games coming to Linux or OS X through Steam

In computer security, AAA commonly stands for authentication, authorization and accounting.

Suspicious Dish posted:

For developer OSes, they make a bit more sense, but not a lot, given that the way the app system works on all commercial OSes is that you bundle your dependencies, because it's completely unscalable to do it any other way.

i get it, your gimmick is weird docker poo poo, whatever

what i know and have worked with for many years is package systems. they work well and solve real problems in my life. even on commercial systems, even w/ bundled deps, you want a package system to mark who owns what and check integrity. UNIX vendors learned this the hard way and standardized it in .. uh.. 1991? 1992? so long ago i cannot believe i even have to convince people it is a good and necessary idea

p.s. gently caress everyone who doesn't use rpath for elf binaries

Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 01:56 on May 27, 2014

# ? May 27, 2014 01:53

Last Chance: Dec 31, 2004

so if os x is bad and linux is better, then why is using any linux 100x more painful? often even the most basic things like hardware accelerated video, multimonitor, wireless and sound don't work properly on linux.

# ? May 27, 2014 02:58

Last Chance: Dec 31, 2004

and are we really defending ancient package managers and fuckin X11? this is truly a gem of a thread.

# ? May 27, 2014 02:59

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# ? May 29, 2023 04:14

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

osx is just a bad Linux and Linux is a bad os. so osx is a bad, bad os.

# ? May 27, 2014 03:00

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