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TheFluff posted:why are all the linux guys I know so incredibly mad at systemd? what did it do? it lets people do computer janitoring without writing a pile of horrible init scripts, so naturally a bunch of graybeards are worried about their job security systemd is good, it's mostly a very vocal minority of nutcases who hate it
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Oct 28, 2018 23:02
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ratbert90 posted:systemd doesn’t replace dbus, it uses dbus and has some not-poo poo apis for it. counter argument: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-bus.html it doesn't replace the dbus server, but it does replace the client code
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Oct 28, 2018 23:07
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it's a good thing we still have ubuntu https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kddqINA1vOA
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Oct 28, 2018 23:07
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The_Franz posted:it lets people do computer janitoring without writing a pile of horrible init scripts, so naturally a bunch of graybeards are worried about their job security systemd-init is good, I agree - much better than sysv or even upstart. The service manager is good too except for binary logging basically everything else about systemd sucks the root
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Oct 28, 2018 23:09
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Poopernickel posted:counter argument: true, but that’s not a bad thing.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:16
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The_Franz posted:it lets people do computer janitoring without writing a pile of horrible init scripts, so naturally a bunch of graybeards are worried about their job security
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Oct 28, 2018 23:19
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pseudorandom name posted:well, that's one way to disassociate your brand from Trump and neckbearded manchildren At the recent Red Hat conference they were handing out Red Hat ballcaps that were every color of the rainbow except red. Weezer played the conference party and Rivers Cuomo asked the audience why all the caps weren't red. Awkward laughter...
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Oct 28, 2018 23:21
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Oct 28, 2018 23:28
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I’m feeling that feeling again. That emotion when Oracle bought Sun’s assets, except worse
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Oct 28, 2018 23:29
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Yes, let us rewrite and take ownership of literally every system component instead of just sticking to init https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=CVE-2018-15688
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Oct 28, 2018 23:32
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systemd vs init is the lamest holy war in the history of holy wars
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Oct 28, 2018 23:34
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yes agree if systemd dropped everything that wasn't systemd-init and the service manager, I bet people would shut up about it pretty quick
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Oct 28, 2018 23:40
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lol no they wouldn't. they're not mad at anything specific about systemd, that's all just a pretext. it could be literally perfect in every way and they'd still be violently angry. they're mad that the knowledge they had when their brains started to calcify in the mid-90s is no longer career relevant and they need to retrain.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:44
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pseudorandom name posted:lol no they wouldn't. they're not mad at anything specific about systemd, that's all just a pretext. it could be literally perfect in every way and they'd still be violently angry. Watching Revolution OS for the third time that week, angry that the Dotcom era is over.
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Oct 28, 2018 23:49
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Poopernickel posted:counter argument: do you even understand the concept of a client library
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Oct 28, 2018 23:49
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Poopernickel posted:RIP RHEL, we'll miss you it doesn't replace getty wtf it doesn't replace mount, it has a unit type for mount points and it uses the existing kernel automounter to implement them. /etc/fstab is still there dns is a protocol. if you mean systemd-resolved afaik nobody actually uses it by default and it's an /etc/nsswitch.conf setting to opt in or out it has a client library for dbus that it uses itself and that other people are welcome to use. the new dbus-daemon is an entirely independent project
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Oct 28, 2018 23:51
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as for this news, "boy i'm sure glad these two corporations decided to merge, this is certainly going to benefit me somehow" said literally no non-0.1%er ever
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Oct 28, 2018 23:52
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...
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Oct 28, 2018 23:54
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[img-triumph-dog]
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Oct 28, 2018 23:57
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Sapozhnik posted:it doesn't replace getty guess you're right on that one - I got mixed up by https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-getty-generator.html Sapozhnik posted:it doesn't replace mount https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-mount.html edit: while googling, turns out it also replaces udev  https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/udev.html
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Oct 29, 2018 00:15
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yase, my init system should definitely have a webserver built in https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-journal-gatewayd.html
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Oct 29, 2018 00:23
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r u ready to WALK posted:thank god microsoft had the foresight to make windows a linux so we have something to switch to when ibm ruins redhat what’s the expected timeframe for Microsoft buying Ubuntu after this move from IBM
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Oct 29, 2018 00:25
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Poopernickel posted:yase, my init system should definitely have a webserver built in I don't think you understand what those are. Those aren't services that run as part of PID1. They are separate executables.
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Oct 29, 2018 00:25
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also it should definitely replace ntpd, that's a real value add there https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-timesyncd.service.html
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Oct 29, 2018 00:26
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TheFluff posted:why are all the linux guys I know so incredibly mad at systemd? what did it do? it was different than their traditional pile of lovely scripts therefore bad
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Oct 29, 2018 00:26
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hobbesmaster posted:for future readers of this thread it says
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Oct 29, 2018 00:27
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pseudorandom name posted:lol no they wouldn't. they're not mad at anything specific about systemd, that's all just a pretext. it could be literally perfect in every way and they'd still be violently angry. Nice meltdown
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Oct 29, 2018 00:29
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TheFluff posted:why are all the linux guys I know so incredibly mad at systemd? what did it do? it grew like a cancer, consuming unbroken things and replacing them with broken ones init scripts suck and init needed replacing, 100% agreed. But gently caress the monoculture that systemd is creating - absorbing an entire ecosystem piece by piece also systemd is 100% Linux-specific, and won't compile or work on any BSD. So the growing web of systemd dependency is lowkey obsoleting every non-Linux unix Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Oct 29, 2018 |
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Oct 29, 2018 00:31
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2012: Ganoo/leenux 2018: systemd/goddamn it
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Oct 29, 2018 00:36
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Poopernickel posted:also systemd is 100% Linux-specific, and won't compile or work on any BSD. So the growing web of systemd dependency is lowkey obsoleting every non-Linux unix that's been slowly happening since the turn of the century regardless of systemd
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Oct 29, 2018 00:59
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The_Franz posted:that's been slowly happening since the turn of the century regardless of systemd i wonder what os runs in apple hardware...
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Oct 29, 2018 01:06
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Gazpacho posted:Maybe instead of horrible scripts u should write ... good scripts? says every lovely script writer.
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Oct 29, 2018 01:07
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Penisface posted:i wonder what os runs in apple hardware... ah yes, they aren't all dead which means that there hasn't been a significant reduction over the last 20 years  there are significantly fewer unices available now compared to the late-90s, and many of the ones that are still hanging around are in maintenance mode for legacy customers in the context of the thread, macos is the last capital-u unix for the desktop still being developed now that oracle put solaris into maintenance mode
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Oct 29, 2018 01:23
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osx already has launchd which is the worlds most advanced init system
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Oct 29, 2018 01:26
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eschaton posted:what’s the expected timeframe for Microsoft buying Ubuntu after this move from IBM Lol i was just thinking about that, it can't be far off.
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Oct 29, 2018 01:41
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pram posted:osx already has launchd which is the worlds most advanced init system systemd is basically a bad clone of launchd.
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Oct 29, 2018 01:43
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all of linux is going to be owned by the software giants it was going to kill.
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Oct 29, 2018 01:46
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Poopernickel posted:also systemd is 100% Linux-specific, and won't compile or work on any BSD. So the growing web of systemd dependency is lowkey obsoleting every non-Linux unix BSDs only survive because they implement the more popular Linux APIs (see: GEM/KMS/evdev), not because anybody else cares to port their software to the BSDs. There are thousands of Linux-specific APIs and projects that you use every day that only "just barely" run on BSDs and nobody gives a poo poo. I don't know why people latched onto this with systemd.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:14
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ewe2 posted:Lol i was just thinking about that, it can't be far off.
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Oct 29, 2018 02:24
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Suspicious Dish posted:BSDs only survive because they implement the more popular Linux APIs (see: GEM/KMS/evdev), not because anybody else cares to port their software to the BSDs. There are thousands of Linux-specific APIs and projects that you use every day that only "just barely" run on BSDs and nobody gives a poo poo. I don't know why people latched onto this with systemd. when youre grasping at straws every straw counts
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Oct 29, 2018 03:09
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