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DoomTrainPhD posted:docker on macs is horrible how so, other than the regular horror that is Docker
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Jan 5, 2021 01:10
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PCjr sidecar posted:gross, what are you doing where you think a > 2gb deb is a good idea yeah it’s not like anyone going to ship a game that way
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Jan 5, 2021 01:10
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Poopernickel posted:In my case, I was trying to package Xilinx lab tools for easy installation/remote management on a bunch of hardware lab machines. put them on a shared filesystem, why would your lab machines even have local disk
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Jan 5, 2021 01:12
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eschaton posted:how so, other than the regular horror that is Docker Docker on MacOS runs in a VM and eats up a horrendous amount of Ram/CPU usage.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:13
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eschaton posted:how so, other than the regular horror that is Docker it's a hidden linux vm so there's extra performance and permissions implications
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Jan 5, 2021 01:13
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Docker on MacOS runs in a VM and eats up a horrendous amount of Ram/CPU usage. its good enough for docker build. dont use it for anything else
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Jan 5, 2021 01:15
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Nomnom Cookie posted:its good enough for docker build. dont use it for anything else At my old job we had a choice between MacBooks and Dell XPS 15's. I wanted a Dell but my boss stepped in and said "on this team we use Macs." It was horrible. We used docker for everything because the product was an embedded Linux project. Compiling, developing, and testing all happened in docker on a Mac. It was horrendous and I am glad I no longer work there.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:18
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carry on then posted:it's a hidden linux vm so there's extra performance and permissions implications LOL because why take advantage of a stable userspace ABI when you can just run everything under a VM instead I had cause to run a Windows command line binary from a shell script recently, and using WINE to do so worked pretty well precisely because it isn’t a VM
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Jan 5, 2021 01:26
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eschaton posted:LOL because why take advantage of a stable userspace ABI when you can just run everything under a VM instead MacOS doesn't natively support containers.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:27
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DoomTrainPhD posted:MacOS doesn't natively support containers. linux doesn't natively support containers either, it supports a mess of features that you can sorta jigsaw into containers if you're careful
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Jan 5, 2021 01:32
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Nomnom Cookie posted:linux doesn't natively support containers either, it supports a mess of features that you can sorta jigsaw into containers if you're careful Fine. MacOS doesn't even have the jigsaw pieces.
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Jan 5, 2021 01:33
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eschaton posted:LOL because why take advantage of a stable userspace ABI when you can just run everything under a VM instead some people at microsoft thought like you did, and the result was WSL. a few years later, WSL2 is virtualized because that works better. the problems with docker on macos are about macos being dogshit, and docker being dogshit, not anything inherent to virtualization
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Jan 5, 2021 01:35
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DoomTrainPhD posted:Docker on MacOS runs in a VM and eats up a horrendous amount of Ram/CPU usage. carry on then posted:it's a hidden linux vm so there's extra performance and permissions implications how come no one says this when theyre jerking off about wsl2 lol
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Jan 5, 2021 01:54
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DoomTrainPhD posted:MacOS doesn't natively support containers. it does, in fact, in a similar way to how Linux does, how do you think the simulator works what macOS doesn’t support natively are Linux containers Docker could implement the Linux system call ABI pretty much however they want in order to implement Linux containers, they don’t have to do so by actually running Linux in a VM there was a tool for the Power Mac running System 7 that would let you run an AIX binary under Macintosh Programmer’s Workshop, it did so by implementing an XCOFF loader and fixing up the AIX binary’s library imports with its own implementation, which was enough for a tool that used mainly stdio to work Linux has a pretty serious design flaw in that its official system call entry points are the trap instructions rather than a shared library everything links, but that should still be plenty easy to fix up at load time by scanning the instruction stream and replacing syscall traps with calls to a syscall dispatch function
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Jan 5, 2021 03:17
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Nomnom Cookie posted:some people at microsoft thought like you did, and the result was WSL. a few years later, WSL2 is virtualized because that works better. the problems with docker on macos are about macos being dogshit, and docker being dogshit, not anything inherent to virtualization the problems you cite with WSL are about Windows being dogshit, not anything inherent to syscall interception hell, how much of WSL’s climes performance issues were due to assumptions the Linux code people were running made about the performance of various filesystem operations, and how well would that code run against NFS or the Andrew filesystem?
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Jan 5, 2021 03:20
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macOS getting Linux container supports seems inevitable to me, but it might take 10 years.
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Jan 5, 2021 03:34
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Some people don't take the plight of Sisyphus seriously, but his struggle was actually to get a working docker dev enviroment on macos this whole time. Last time he got to the top by hacking permissions until unit tests were green, but the boulder rolled back down into the "now add support for this into your ci system" ditch. Poor bastard. He doesn't even know half the dev team already upgraded to Big Sur.
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Jan 5, 2021 03:49
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It's brutal, but I also can't fault Hades for punishing Sisyphus' trickery in this way. When asked why his resume didn't match his skillset, Sisyphus replied "Well MacOS is certified UNIX"
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Jan 5, 2021 03:54
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DoomTrainPhD posted:At my old job we had a choice between MacBooks and Dell XPS 15's. I wanted a Dell but my boss stepped in and said "on this team we use Macs." lol did your boss also care about whether you used emacs or vim???
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Jan 5, 2021 05:06
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Progressive JPEG posted:lol did your boss also care about whether you used emacs or vim??? No, but he’s an rear end in a top hat who cares about covering his own rear end more than his employees.
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Jan 5, 2021 05:08
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eschaton posted:the problems you cite with WSL are about Windows being dogshit, not anything inherent to syscall interception yes and you can imagine how a dogshit OS pretending to be another dogshit OS doesn't work very well. same is true of virtualization, but virtualization has had a shitload of engineering put into it
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Jan 5, 2021 06:02
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Linux recently gained a multiple personality Quite how hardcoded nt traps would reliably work from a game DRM implementer's standpoint is beyond me though. I thought the syscall numbers got randomized in every build of nt and then codegenned into the ntdll build.
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Jan 5, 2021 07:04
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Sapozhnik posted:Linux recently gained a multiple personality https://j00ru.vexillium.org/syscalls/nt/64/ they seem pretty stable with occasional version bumps. game publishers only really care about early sales, so if the drm renders something unplayable two years later oh well. they'll just update or patch out the copy protection at that point, assuming they still care
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Jan 5, 2021 07:51
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Nomnom Cookie posted:yes and you can imagine how a dogshit OS pretending to be another dogshit OS doesn't work very well. same is true of virtualization, but virtualization has had a shitload of engineering put into it
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Jan 5, 2021 08:11
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Edit: nm
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Jan 5, 2021 11:30
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I've been waiting for awhile for CentOS 8 Stream to get firefox 78.6.1 until today, when I just switched my desktop to Ubuntu 20.04. That version is important because Firefox 78.6.1 is the ESR release that fixes the critical SCTP (yeah, I heard the joke) bug in 78.6.0. So I get the feeling that anything downstream of redhat itself may start getting the short shrift, but we won't know until the CentOS crowd migrates over. At this rate, when my CentOS 7 servers get EOL, they'll get switched over to Ubuntu as well. Or maybe I should just start installing SUSE as an excuse to learn German.
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Jan 17, 2021 07:02
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sb hermit posted:I've been waiting for awhile for CentOS 8 Stream to get firefox 78.6.1 until today, when I just switched my desktop to Ubuntu 20.04. Ubuntu 20.04 with ZFS is very good. I switched over from Fedora last month and have been very happy.
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Jan 17, 2021 09:04
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sb hermit posted:I've been waiting for awhile for CentOS 8 Stream to get firefox 78.6.1 until today, when I just switched my desktop to Ubuntu 20.04. lol using centos for a desktop
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Jan 17, 2021 09:31
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my stepdads beer posted:lol using centos for a desktop I was using fedora before and every other kernel upgrade killed the display driver switching to centos fixed that issue DoomTrainPhD posted:Ubuntu 20.04 with ZFS is very good. I switched over from Fedora last month and have been very happy. I'd rather switch to btrfs before I try zfs (although I might give freenas a shot) but it's certainly nice to have it as an option
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Jan 17, 2021 09:39
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i set up a freenas san recently, it's good. don't run the bleeding edge release though, eg https://www.ixsystems.com/blog/library/truenas-12-0-u1.1/
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Jan 17, 2021 10:06
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sb hermit posted:btrfs 
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Jan 17, 2021 10:48
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does the Firefox auto update not work on linux? package managers are often convenient but they’re not always appropriate for software that almost exclusively handles untrusted content, is actively targeted by malware, and has a primary source of timely and trustworthy patches
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Jan 17, 2021 11:22
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wow
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Jan 17, 2021 11:51
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Soricidus posted:does the Firefox auto update not work on linux? package managers are often convenient but they’re not always appropriate for software that almost exclusively handles untrusted content, is actively targeted by malware, and has a primary source of timely and trustworthy patches mystes fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jan 17, 2021 |
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Jan 17, 2021 14:26
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Jan 17, 2021 15:16
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Soricidus posted:does the Firefox auto update not work on linux? package managers are often convenient but they’re not always appropriate for software that almost exclusively handles untrusted content, is actively targeted by malware, and has a primary source of timely and trustworthy patches the internal updater works if you install it manually, otherwise it goes through distro repositories
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Jan 17, 2021 16:54
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That question seems really silly. Depending on which repository you're using you can get updates just as fast as nightly without circumventing the package manager. I believe there are nightly deb repositories, and there are definitely nightly Firefox updates on distros that are designed to install Firefox, such as Arch (not server/LTS distros.) Packages that update themselves are TERRIBLE, see snaps on Ubuntu.
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Jan 17, 2021 17:12
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A package updating itself seems like a recipe for disaster when the repo gets an updated version, doesn't know what version the software had updated to, and tries to overwrite it with whatever it gets in its update.
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Jan 17, 2021 17:39
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RFC2324 posted:A package updating itself seems like a recipe for disaster when the repo gets an updated version, doesn't know what version the software had updated to, and tries to overwrite it with whatever it gets in its update. hence why firefox only self-updates if you explicitly don't install it via a package manager
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Jan 17, 2021 17:44
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The_Franz posted:hence why firefox only self-updates if you explicitly don't install it via a package manager Yeah, i was pointing that out to the people aghast that thats how it works. Just use a rolling release, safest bet of an up to date browser. Also, use a cron job or something to do updates automagically
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Jan 17, 2021 17:55
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