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nudgenudgetilt
Mar 18, 2003

The_Franz posted:

oddly enough, the steam interface seems to work when streaming from the steam deck, which runs on wayland

problem is there isn't one wayland -- wayland is just the display protocol, and every desktop envrionment implements it in their own compositor. i think the steam deck runs kde and the gamescope compositor, but it's possible the kde compositor is layered in as well. i think gamescope is wlroots based, and kde's compositor is entirely its own thing. if op is running gnome or even plain kde, they're using a different stack than the steam deck

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BlankSystemDaemon
Mar 13, 2009



it's wild that big blue is now good

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

Sapozhnik posted:

Big end-of-year update describing various strategic initiatives in Fedora Workstation land:

https://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2022/12/14/update-from-the-world-of-fedora-workstation/

Desktop infrastructure has come a long way from the bad old days when everything was duct-taped together with buggy distribution-specific shell scripts, it's exciting to see a lot of this stuff land.

cool, this was a good writeup

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life
There is a big open ticket about it it seems to affect most / all desktops, idk. The workaroubds didnt work for me on F37 + kde

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/6148

Didn't gently caress with it to much cause, regrettably X works and I dont wanna janitor my computer more than necessary.

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

seems like intel just added a bunch of dsc patches to their drm-intel tree, so tomorrow i guess i'll see if wd19s dockings suddenly has got useful in linux

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

phoronix noting huge 9p optimizations in the kernel without noting the obviously biggest use-case for that; wsl. which means also no reenactment of 1998-era slashdot flamewars in the comments.

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

Tankakern posted:

seems like intel just added a bunch of dsc patches to their drm-intel tree, so tomorrow i guess i'll see if wd19s dockings suddenly has got useful in linux

couldn't get it to work, when i tried turning the second 4k external monitor on, it froze. the quest continues on

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
hey look there's an independent reimplementation of meson now

https://git.sr.ht/~lattis/muon/tree/master/item/README.md

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Sapozhnik posted:

hey look there's an independent reimplementation of meson now

https://git.sr.ht/~lattis/muon/tree/master/item/README.md

meson donít know what that is, anni

cowboy beepboop
Feb 24, 2001


on leave until 9th jan, don't have to touch a linux until then 🙏

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





cowboy beepboop posted:

on leave until 9th jan, don't have to touch a linux until then 🙏

:nice:

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life

akadajet posted:

meson don’t know what that is, anni


Erwin
Feb 17, 2006

Sapozhnik posted:

hey look there's an independent reimplementation of meson now

https://git.sr.ht/~lattis/muon/tree/master/item/README.md

tf is sourcehut

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
github for people who think that collaboration and communication technology peaked with smtp

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

github for people who don't want constant feature requests from drive by github accounts

(it's me)

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Erwin posted:

tf is sourcehut

well you know what pizza hut is, right?

nudgenudgetilt
Mar 18, 2003
sourcehut is the dumb rebranding of Sir Hat (sr.ht)

Kazinsal
Dec 13, 2011


sourcehut : github :: mastodon : twitter

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

the android of githubs

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Kazinsal posted:

sourcehut : github :: linux : windows

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

~this is me posting irl~

akadajet posted:

well you know what pizza hut is, right?

in this analogy, what's the equivalent of dominos

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

in this analogy, what's the equivalent of dominos

ibm, duh

mystes
May 31, 2006

If anyone else is masochistic enough to be using lookingglass with gpu passthrough, the latest version (B6) is an absolutely massive improvement because it 1) adds support for using a virtualized VGA device as a fallback so it's not impossible to debug if there's a problem and 2) adds native support for audio so you don't have to use scream.

This makes it much more seamless and hopefully means that it's not necessarily to plug in an external monitor whenever there's a problem, and I'd probably actually recommend it for anyone using gpu passthrough now.

mystes fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Jan 2, 2023

Scrotum Modem
Sep 12, 2014

surely 2023 is the year of the linux dickstop

Athas
Aug 6, 2007

fuck that joker
Hello thread, my name is Athas and I am a Linux user. Yesterday I got a new AMD RX 7900 GPU. This was an interesting experience because it is so new, so driver support is spotty. In particular, I had to install the newest Linux kernel (fine), the newest Mesa (uh), compiled with the newest LLVM (oh no). The problem is that the latter two parts aren't yet packaged in my distribution, NixOS.

Fortunately it is easy to reference random branches on GitHub from your NixOS configuration:

pre:
let
    staging = import (builtins.fetchTarball "https://github.com/nixos/nixpkgs/tarball/staging-next") { config = config.nixpkgs.config; };
    llvm15 = import (builtins.fetchTarball "https://github.com/rrbutani/nixpkgs/tarball/feature/llvm-15") { config = config.nixpkgs.config; };
in
  ...
And then force the drivers from this Mesa-with-LLVM15-and-no-OpenCL (because the latter is still broken) into my system:

pre:
  hardware.opengl.package = (staging.mesa.override
    { llvmPackages = llvm15.llvmPackages_15;
      enableOpenCL = false; }).drivers;
This will leave no lasting damage, as once these parts move into mainline NixOS, I can just remove this stuff and it'll be as if it was never there. I have no idea how I'd have done this while I still ran Debian. Probably just randomly installed the parts and reinstalled everything a few months later.

Of course it'd be better if everything just worked, but it's nice that NixOS lets you hack stuff without leaving system scar tissue.

Antigravitas
Dec 8, 2019

Die Rettung fuer die Landwirte:

Athas posted:

This will leave no lasting damage

To your PC, perhaps. :v:

In Debian you'd peruse backports. Mesa, llvm, kernel-image don't pull in too many dependencies, so that's similarly easy to do.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

I described my experience with a RX7900XTX on Kinoite in another thread, but basically: I downloaded the Mesa 23 rpm from the CI server and overrode it in another OStree "branch", leaving the stable version pinned. LLVM and kernel were available as packages (as was mesa 22.3 but 23 works better).

However, flatpaks don't work with this as they bring their own LLVM instead of the system library (which is the whole point), so I had to reinstall Steam and Lutris as (ewww) native RPM packages.

If Flatpak were like Docker, I could have built a "patched" flatpak that used the official one as a base and just updated the LLVM and Mesa dependencies. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be possible - you can't simply refer to another existing flatpak from your own flatpak manifest - so I'd basically have to maintain a fork of the original manifest.

@Athas: how does Nix work with this? Like, if I understand the whole point of Nix is "you can have many versions of dependencies and each package can use whichever it prefers", so if you install Steam and Lutris, do they use LLVM 15 or the version they were targeted against? If the latter, can you force them to use the "wrong" version or do you have to repackage them?

NihilCredo fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Jan 11, 2023

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





Athas posted:

Hello thread, my name is Athas and I am a Linux user. Yesterday I got a new AMD RX 7900 GPU. This was an interesting experience because it is so new, so driver support is spotty. In particular, I had to install the newest Linux kernel (fine), the newest Mesa (uh), compiled with the newest LLVM (oh no). The problem is that the latter two parts aren't yet packaged in my distribution, NixOS.

Fortunately it is easy to reference random branches on GitHub from your NixOS configuration:

pre:
let
    staging = import (builtins.fetchTarball "https://github.com/nixos/nixpkgs/tarball/staging-next") { config = config.nixpkgs.config; };
    llvm15 = import (builtins.fetchTarball "https://github.com/rrbutani/nixpkgs/tarball/feature/llvm-15") { config = config.nixpkgs.config; };
in
  ...
And then force the drivers from this Mesa-with-LLVM15-and-no-OpenCL (because the latter is still broken) into my system:

pre:
  hardware.opengl.package = (staging.mesa.override
    { llvmPackages = llvm15.llvmPackages_15;
      enableOpenCL = false; }).drivers;
This will leave no lasting damage, as once these parts move into mainline NixOS, I can just remove this stuff and it'll be as if it was never there. I have no idea how I'd have done this while I still ran Debian. Probably just randomly installed the parts and reinstalled everything a few months later.

Of course it'd be better if everything just worked, but it's nice that NixOS lets you hack stuff without leaving system scar tissue.

This actually seems pretty cool.

I have a laptop that runs the latest Fedora but stuff breaks when you put it to sleep. Specifically, charging via usb-c. I think a bunch of other stuff breaks as well, and it looks like it's because its Intel chipset is too dang new.

There are kernel patches to fix it but I would need to build a new kernel. Maybe I should try NixOS. I really wanted to go with Fedora because it has a lot of cool cutting edge stuff (like tpm-enabled LUKS) but why bother when you can't put it to sleep?

Athas
Aug 6, 2007

fuck that joker

Antigravitas posted:

In Debian you'd peruse backports. Mesa, llvm, kernel-image don't pull in too many dependencies, so that's similarly easy to do.

I'd have to manually clean up after those once I no longer need them, and from what I remember, it can sometimes be tricky when you've installed random .debs. Also, I'd be poo poo out of luck of that Mesa backport wasn't compiled with LLVM 15 (previous versions don't know about this GPU architecture). The cool think about my NixOS solution is that I am combining two prerelease branches (one for LLVM and one for Mesa), and letting one influence the other.

NihilCredo posted:

@Athas: how does Nix work with this? Like, if I understand the whole point of Nix is "you can have many versions of dependencies and each package can use whichever it prefers", so if you install Steam and Lutris, do they use LLVM 15 or the version they were targeted against? If the latter, can you force them to use the "wrong" version or do you have to repackage them?

All Mesa provides (as far as my needs anyway) is a bunch of dynamic libraries that games launched by Steam load in order to do graphics. Those dynamic libraries will use LLVM 15. Anything else on the system will use the standard LLVM. This is pretty important because if I overrode something that fundamental globally, it'd have to compile pretty much everything from scratch (but it would probably still work).

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

Athas posted:

it'd have to compile pretty much everything from scratch (but it would probably still work).

the main draw of nixos to me is that i am pretty sure this "probably still work" is actually not at all probable if you uphold any kind of standards of working.

Athas
Aug 6, 2007

fuck that joker

Cybernetic Vermin posted:

the main draw of nixos to me is that i am pretty sure this "probably still work" is actually not at all probable if you uphold any kind of standards of working.

The only reason I say "probably" is that there's probably a reason the LLVM 15 derivation isn't merged yet, so something might break.

Usually, globally replacing the compiler on NixOS and recompiling everything works fine. It just takes a long time.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
might as well run gentoo/arch then, bigger install base means you can at least wiki your problem :v:

Athas
Aug 6, 2007

fuck that joker
You end up solving the same kinds of bullshit problems on NixOS as on Gentoo/Arch, but with NixOS I feel like there are at least some underlying rational principles I can apply to fix stuff. Also, it's easier to experiment and roll back without permanently dirtying the package database.

Truga
May 4, 2014
Lipstick Apathy
also, debian decided to not include mesa22 in backports for bullseye, which is annoying but understandable considering the llvm thing. bookworm's been stable for me the 2 months i've been running it though and the freeze is soon and then it's back to standard stable debian fare

gabensraum
Sep 16, 2003


LOAD "NICE!",8,1
i only use nixos on my home servers and not a desktop but i really like it. i enjoy that the config defines exactly what i get and i can roll back to the exact system i had (besides a few mutable places like my home dir) when i gently caress up or change my mind

was also cool when i recently moved a server to new hardware, was my fastest reinstall ever.

like i say mine is a small use case so ymmv but it's p cool for my needs and i recommend checking it out if you are also a control freak and enjoy seeing everything defined by config

Tankakern
Jul 25, 2007

or use gentoo

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

NihilCredo posted:

I described my experience with a RX7900XTX on Kinoite in another thread, but basically: I downloaded the Mesa 23 rpm from the CI server and overrode it in another OStree "branch", leaving the stable version pinned. LLVM and kernel were available as packages (as was mesa 22.3 but 23 works better).

However, flatpaks don't work with this as they bring their own LLVM instead of the system library (which is the whole point), so I had to reinstall Steam and Lutris as (ewww) native RPM packages.

If Flatpak were like Docker, I could have built a "patched" flatpak that used the official one as a base and just updated the LLVM and Mesa dependencies. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be possible - you can't simply refer to another existing flatpak from your own flatpak manifest - so I'd basically have to maintain a fork of the original manifest.

@Athas: how does Nix work with this? Like, if I understand the whole point of Nix is "you can have many versions of dependencies and each package can use whichever it prefers", so if you install Steam and Lutris, do they use LLVM 15 or the version they were targeted against? If the latter, can you force them to use the "wrong" version or do you have to repackage them?

i think for flatpak steam you can install the mesa-git extension for the Freedesktop runtime and that should give you bleeding-edge gfx userspace without disrupting the version of llvm used by other applications

Mr. Crow
May 22, 2008

Snap City mayor for life
How long is a nixos release supported, till the next one or months or years?

My server is currently Fedora which was useful at the time but now its a bit annoying how fast it updates, was probably gonna throw rocky or bsd on it but nix has always sounded cool

InternetOfTwinks
Apr 2, 2011

Coming out of my cage and I've been doing just bad
Is Mint still the go-to distro for less technical users? Partner's laptop is getting older and they're starting to get frustrated with its performance running Windows, so I was thinking about setting up a dual boot to see if they can get some performance back by running something lighter weight for most stuff, while still having the Windows option for any programs that I can't get Wine to play nice with. Ideally something with minimal terminal knowledge required, I could teach them that stuff but idk how inclined they are to learn it right off the bat heh.

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Nitrousoxide
May 30, 2011

do not buy a oneplus phone



Fedora is, IMO, the go-to recommendation for a distro that Just Works (tm).

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