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ugh its Troika
May 2, 2009

by FactsAreUseless




another goon down :cry:

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Iseeyouseemeseeyou
Jan 3, 2011


Courthouse posted:

Well he won back in Crimea. Question now is what he wants. More of Ukraine? Independent fiefdoms as more easily controlled buffers? Just leave Ukraine a burning mess for shits and giggles?

Because while everyone is busy talking up how bad Putin has outmanouvered the west, fact is that without the Crimean voters the pro-west side has a clear electoral majority in the remaining Ukraine. So it is essentially lost to the EU in the long term.

i think the answer is pretty obvious: japan

hence the wooing of their male population with that crimean attorney lady

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Courthouse posted:

Because while everyone is busy talking up how bad Putin has outmanouvered the west, fact is that without the Crimean voters the pro-west side has a clear electoral majority in the remaining Ukraine. So it is essentially lost to the EU in the long term.

That assumes:

- The same tactics (of destabilization and rabble-rousing if not outright takeover) don't work with increasingly fewer indigenous / smuggled-in 'ethnic Russians'
- The government of whatever's left of Ukraine has the authority and competence to order lunch, let alone coordinate a backstop to Russian influence

I also think people are reaaallly underestimating the Euro swing towards the 'far right' / 'social values' / ethnic identity politics and the potency of said ideologies against the 'Godless socialism' of the existing EU. If Putin et successors maintains the appearance of strength / competence they can swing several states to their side with trivial effort. Hell, look at some of the polls on whether / how to oppose Russian imperialism, Hungary's practically won over already.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

:thunk:
Have you considered not attending the Captain's Career Course?
:thunk:


If Russia couldn't pull that off as the Soviet Union I don't see how they could possibly pull it off today. Europe is already determined to reduce energy dependence on Russia. There isn't going to be a second Cold War and Russia isn't a resurgent superpower. If it was it would have long since invaded Ukraine. The scales are even more lopsided in favor of the West today than they were in the Cold War. Russia has nothing to offer anyone and has no friends.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


In a move sure to shock everyone, the "newly independent" peoples republics of Lugansk and Donetsk have asked for federation with Russia. :ussr:


Also, how is there not a funny Putin annexation smiley yet?

E:

quote:

I also think people are reaaallly underestimating the Euro swing towards the 'far right' / 'social values' / ethnic identity politics and the potency of said ideologies against the 'Godless socialism' of the existing EU. If Putin et successors maintains the appearance of strength / competence they can swing several states to their side with trivial effort.

I think you underestimate just how many of those very same right wing nationalists really, really, do not like Russia. Putin is also a great boogeyman for all the jingoist tendencies there, with the added benefit that the EU federalists can jump on that same train and use it as a unifying force without dipping their toes into "racism". So that door can swing more than one way, with they key difference that the western europeans have an inside track on strong arming the east european countries through EU institutions.

I'm sure Russia can gently caress around in the parts of Europe that don't count on the international stage, but to what end? As it stands now the "win" would be to get a country to leave the EU and enter the Russian orbit, but apart from political brownie points what does that get Putin? The EU on the other hand would probably end up strengthened by ridding itself of pretty much anyone in the old east block but Poland.
One could argue Russia could sow conflict within EU leadership by strongarming a few member countries and thus weaken the EU. But the EU is already completely incapable as anything more than a free trade/movement zone administration (which is a great success in and of it self, I concede).


EE;

quote:

Do you want to become an independent republic from Ukraine? (Tick one)

[] Yes
[] Absolutely

Even the ticking is, of course, superfluous
http://www.businessinsider.com/yes-ballots-ukraine-2014-5

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 12, 2014

hazza
Mar 25, 2005

I couldn't see him, therefore I knew he was there.


Courthouse posted:

Looks like the east Ukrainian separatists won an overwhelming 90% victory with 75% participation. Democracy at work. :sun:

Do you want to become an independent republic from Ukraine? (Tick one)

[] Yes
[] Absolutely

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


Mustang posted:

If Russia couldn't pull that off as the Soviet Union I don't see how they could possibly pull it off today. Europe is already determined to reduce energy dependence on Russia. There isn't going to be a second Cold War and Russia isn't a resurgent superpower. If it was it would have long since invaded Ukraine. The scales are even more lopsided in favor of the West today than they were in the Cold War. Russia has nothing to offer anyone and has no friends.

I thought Europe was 5+ years away from large-scale NG supplies from the US, due to the lack of ports/ships capable of actually transporting it.

Mustang
Jun 18, 2006

:thunk:
Have you considered not attending the Captain's Career Course?
:thunk:


Yeah it's definitely something that won't happen for years but at least they recognize the need for it. I think at most this will decade will see a more assertive Russia (and China, for that matter) but ultimately their internal issues will catch up with them.

brains
May 12, 2004



Mustang posted:

Yeah it's definitely something that won't happen for years but at least they recognize the need for it. I think at most this will decade will see a more assertive Russia (and China, for that matter) but ultimately their internal issues will catch up with them.

the problem is that, historically, totalitarian-style governments use perceived or exaggerated external threats to overshadow domestic instability. hell every government does it; it's a staple of the politician to blame the neighbors to distract from the problems at home.

so yeah, while russia and china both have huge (and probably under-reported) domestic issues looming on the horizon, their respective governments will continue to be more aggressive with foreign policy just to distract their own peoples from it as long as they can.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Mustang posted:

Yeah it's definitely something that won't happen for years but at least they recognize the need for it. I think at most this will decade will see a more assertive Russia (and China, for that matter) but ultimately their internal issues will catch up with them.

This assumes that eventually this conflict doesn't get pushed off the front page enough that the greens start overriding it all again.

RE: the far-right thing, Le Pen (who is a singularly despicable individual) seems to be the major 'far-right' driving force on the mainland right now, and she's shown public sympathy with Putin's aims. Hungary's Jobbiks have explicit ties already with Putin and Russia. Some of this is enemy-of-my-enemy stuff, sure, but I wouldn't underestimate the potency of it, especially as long as Russia remains a more distant threat than literal divisions of tanks warming their engines on the borders. That's not even getting into the tendencies of the "Purify the pure races, death to Gypsies and Jews" groups to keep differing ideas between who's "pure" from preventing alliance until the rest of the mudbloods have been dealt with.

Disunity leading to inaction is all Putin needs from the West, blah blah evil blah good men do nothing and so on. EU attempts at military unity beyond / outside NATO to oppose Russia are also a non-trivial factor in British desires to weaken (or leave) the EU, and whether or not you think that's a good idea, none of the outcomes strengthen that opposition.

It's all really underestimating the rot in EU side (something something Vandals didn't have to be a world power to pull down a thoroughly corrupted Rome) but I've been very pessimistic on EU for a long time.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Russia has yet to move on annexing lugdansk and donetsk, in contrast to crimea where they essentially had all the paperwork done and ready to be signed when asked for federation.

Snowdens Secret posted:

but I've been very pessimistic on EU for a long time.

Depends entirely on what one think the union is supposed to be. If you think it is supposed to be a centralized federal state then yes, it is a failure. If you think it is supposed to be a politically neutral peace'n'trade union it's doing rather well, considering what the world looks like.


Putin doesn't need to do poo poo to avoid the EU (as opposed to it's individual states) becoming a political player. Because for it to do so you'd first have to essentially dissolve the nation states, or at least institute a legal framework where nation states could be forced to take actions against their and their peoples own will. And that is just not going to happen, making any Putin machiavellianisms entirely superfluous.
All relevant actions will be taken by the big 5, either they can agree on something or they can't, and Russia strong-arming Bulgaria or whatever will have little effect on that. Disunity comes from within, and Russia can do very little but hope the economy continues to be poo poo and keeps Europe preoccupied. They can take advantage of that, but that is a different thing from fomenting it.


The "rot" in the EU comes from a lot of people being upset about the federalist politicians trying to make the EU into something it isn't. And the rot was caused by the fact that most of that was done bureaucratically and not democratically. The democratic parties failed to respond to the public will, and so funneled those voters to people like le Pen.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


Yeah as an organization intended to provide a united economic front against the American and Chinese juggernauts, it's doing loving great. Just ask Greece.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Godholio posted:

Yeah as an organization intended to provide a united economic front against the American and Chinese juggernauts, it's doing loving great. Just ask Greece.

Where there once were a complete mess of tolls, borders within borders, conflicting laws, protectionist regulations, caps in imports and exports and travelling required a legal degree, you can now trade and travel freely. So yes, it is. If you compare it to what it was before the EU started it's work on removing borders, harmonizing laws and forbade countries from constantly trying to gently caress their neighbors over, it's loving sunshine and unicorns. This is a continent that couldn't discuss the colour of an orange without setting off some continent wide mass slaughter. The EU, and NATO, did put an end to centuries and millennia of constant warfare between the member states.

If you compare it to some pie in the sky utopia, sure, it's terrible. But the only thing the EU can be faulted for is letting the Greeks in despite knowing what a cleptocratic mess their government was. The EURO, while a project of some of the core EU members is not the EU. And should be decried on its own merits. The Greeks would not have been magically spared the sums of their governments foolishness had they been outside the EU.

It is not an organization intended to provide any "economic fronts" against anyone. It's intended to put an end to wars between member states, open up a free market within the continent, and allow the free flow of trade and people. Using it as some "front" against anything is not what it's for, however much the federalists wish it the EU is not a political entity and was not intended as one. You have NATO and G8 summits for that stuff.

The EU simply is not an institution made for projecting anything, be it force or diplomatic measures. To be so it must first dissolve the autonomy of the nation states, which is not going to happen.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Lotta wishful thinking there. And you're misunderstanding what I mean by 'rot'. The Nazis may have had the door opened for them by a crashed economy but countering Weimar amoralism was their primary selling point. It doesn't really matter whether the downsides to, let's call it 'Godless socialism' are real or perceived as long as enough people perceive them. Also, perhaps I shouldn't have used EU as shorthand when I really just meant 'Europe'.

In other news:

Iran is declaring victory in Syria: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/11/syria-crisis-iran-assad-won-war-tehran

quote:

Iran and its close ally President Bashar al-Assad have won the war in Syria, and the US-orchestrated campaign in support of the opposition's attempt to topple the Syrian regime has failed, senior Iranian officials have told the Guardian.

In a series of interviews in Tehran, top figures who shape Iranian foreign policy said the west's strategy in Syria had merely encouraged radicals, caused chaos and ultimately backfired, with government forces now on the front foot.

"We have won in Syria," said Alaeddin Borujerdi, chairman of the Iranian parliament's national security and foreign policy committee and an influential government insider. "The regime will stay. The Americans have lost it."

Terrorism perpetrated by al-Qaida-linked jihadist groups and individuals armed and funded by Sunni Muslim Arab countries was now the main threat facing the Syrian people, Borujerdi said. Many foreign fighters who had travelled to Syria from Britain and other European countries could soon return. "We are worried about the future security of Europe," he said.

Also the Iranian nuke talks restart today and Iran is 'in it to win it': http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.590040

quote:

Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei Sunday called on the country's Revolutionary Guards to mass-produce missiles, saying that Western expectations that Iran would limit its missile program were "stupid and idiotic."

"They expect us to limit our missile program while they constantly threaten Iran with military action. So this is a stupid, idiotic expectation," Khamenei told members of the Revolutionary Guards airspace unit during a visit to an aeronautics fair in Tehran.

"The Revolutionary Guards should definitely carry out their program and not be satisfied with the present level. They should mass produce. This is a main duty of all military officials," Khamenei said.

Also on Sunday, Iranian President Hassan Rohani said that Iran will not accept "nuclear apartheid," but is willing to offer more transparency over its atomic activities.

Speaking on state television in the run-up to a new round of talks with world powers, Rohani said: "We have nothing to put on the table and offer to them but transparency. That's it. Our nuclear technology is not up for negotiation."

"Iran will not retreat one step in the field of nuclear technology... We will not accept nuclear apartheid," Rohani said.
...
Earlier on Sunday, Reuters reported that United Nations experts had concluded that Iran's attempts to illicitly procure materials for its disputed nuclear and missile programs appeared to have slowed down during its negotiations with world powers.

That conclusion was based on a confidential report that Reuters claimed to have seen. However, the UN Panel of Experts, which monitors compliance with the Security Council's sanctions regime on Iran, noted that it was also possible Tehran has simply learned to outsmart security and intelligence services in its pursuit of sensitive components and materials.

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013

by Lowtax


pack it in boys, america is over

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/05/14/pentagon-chelsea-manning/9069755/

USA Today posted:

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has approved an Army request to transfer national-security secrets leaker Pvt. Chelsea Manning to a civilian prison that could provide her treatment to transition to a woman, Pentagon officials say.

AllDogsGoodDogs
Dec 30, 2008


Hopefully they gently caress up during surgery.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Who is paying for his dick to get cut off?

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


Government sponsored dick snips for convicted traitors? Why I never.

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




I think she ought to be Manning up.

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011




Pork Pro

Mortabis posted:

Who is paying for his dick to get cut off?

I really hope they just cut it off and let some hosed up convicts gently caress the poo poo out of the wound and just let him bleed out from it all.


Because seriously, gently caress anime intel spergs forever

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Mortabis posted:

Who is paying

The ones needing a believable cover for the Game of Thrones poo poo they did to him during interrogation? :tinfoil:

:D

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


tank u all 4 ur service(ing of men, Mr. Nice!) and making this thread so i actually can stay up on news without throwing a coffee mug at the tee vee

that out of the way as a civilian american i hope that someone kicks bradley in the dick repeatedly before they cut it off so he can be the pretty pretty princess of cell block d or whatever

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus


maffew buildings posted:

tank u all 4 ur service(ing of men, Mr. Nice!) and making this thread so i actually can stay up on news without throwing a coffee mug at the tee vee

that out of the way as a civilian american i hope that someone kicks bradley in the dick repeatedly before they cut it off so he can be the pretty pretty princess of cell block d or whatever

Stay in drugs kid, don't do school.

maffew buildings
Apr 29, 2009

I'm too dumb to get probated


schools tell you it's ok to be a tranny jew fag and proud of who you are, gently caress school.

that's something you do in the privacy of your own home and feel deep overwhelming shame about that you deal with through rampant alcoholism and frequenting hookers

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Courthouse posted:

The ones needing a believable cover for the Game of Thrones poo poo they did to him during interrogation? :tinfoil:

:D

nah, theyre gonna hire the most expensive doctors they can find and charge it to yours truly, every1 who pays taxes.

genderstomper58
Jan 9, 2005

by XyloJW


maffew buildings posted:

schools tell you it's ok to be a tranny jew fag and proud of who you are, gently caress school.

that's something you do in the privacy of your own home and feel deep overwhelming shame about that you deal with through rampant alcoholism and frequenting hookers

Welcome friend

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011




Pork Pro

orange juche posted:

nah, theyre gonna hire the most expensive doctors they can find and charge it to yours truly, every1 who pays taxes.

Daggum I hate Obummer-care

*goes to the VA*

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





maffew buildings posted:

schools tell you it's ok to be a tranny jew fag and proud of who you are, gently caress school.

that's something you do in the privacy of your own home and feel deep overwhelming shame about that you deal with through rampant alcoholism and frequenting hookers

You're gonna do fine here.

Kung Fu Fist Fuck
Aug 9, 2009


maffew buildings posted:

schools tell you it's ok to be a tranny jew fag and proud of who you are, gently caress school.

that's something you do in the privacy of your own home and feel deep overwhelming shame about that you deal with through rampant alcoholism and frequenting hookers

i think i remember liking you back when i use to stay up on the mma threads so welcome to our den of inequity

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Courthouse posted:

The ones needing a believable cover for the Game of Thrones poo poo they did to him during interrogation? :tinfoil:

:D

I wish.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


quote:

as a civilian

maffew buildings posted:

schools tell you it's ok to be a tranny jew fag and proud of who you are, gently caress school.


You've certainly come to the right place then. :allears:

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013

by Lowtax


Courthouse posted:

You've certainly come to the right place then. :allears:

i already like him more than you

Full Battle Rattle
Aug 29, 2009

As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.


Mention a transsexual and this place just starts oozing the loving charm.

Although if I were legit transitioning and poor as gently caress I would be furious that this dude breaks some of the most serious laws we have and gets his transition gratis c/o the US government. Really, the dude flew off the handle about how bad the government was treating him and now they're not only covering his transition, they even transferred him. It's not like he earned his hero status anyway, he released every thing he could find without regard for where it came from, what it was about, or who it could possibly hurt. He was having a lovely deployment, acted out, and it's almost certainly cost lives. It wasn't brave, it was catty and petulant. He hosed up and he deserves to be in prison. People, good people (and let's be honest, probably some real assholes too) died because of this fucker. His one life spent in prison cannot un-do the ones who didn't get to come back. gently caress Bradley Manning. gently caress Chelsea Manning. gently caress disabled CD burners. gently caress all of them.

Kung Fu Fist Fuck
Aug 9, 2009


Full Battle Rattle posted:

Mention a transsexual and this place just starts oozing the loving charm.

tell me more

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Under what rules is gender change covered anyway? It doesn't feel like something medically necessary in an immediate sense, so why is it covered? Human rights or something?

What happens if he changes his mind later on? Does the state cover sowing it back on?

friend of the family DEATH TURBO posted:

i already like him more than you

This is about my rainbow menorah tshirt, isn't it? :v:

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 23:51 on May 14, 2014

Sax Offender
Sep 9, 2007



College Slice

Full Battle Rattle posted:

Although if I were legit transitioning

Follow your dreams.

quote:

it was catty and petulant.


He'll fit right in post-op.

quote:

gently caress all of them.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Courthouse posted:

Under what rules is gender change covered anyway?

it's not covered, which is why most of our reactions range from :jerkbag: to :arghfist: because haha the DoD is gonna pay for him to get gender reassignment surgery and holy gently caress i mean i just don't get it. dudes a loving traitor according to the oath he took when he enlisted and he is getting transferred from leavenworth to a civ facility and argh god dammit gently caress etc.


basically im literaly shakign


E: this is not some general strike out against people who get gender reassignment surgery or whatever, if that is what you need then go for it, if that is what you need to feel normal. I do however object to the govt paying for a traitor to get it.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 15, 2014

LongDarkNight
Oct 25, 2010

It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.

Oven Wrangler

Dude should get 10,000 volts rather than tens of thousands of dollars in elective surgery.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Is corpse a gender?

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...



Mad Dragon posted:

Is corpse a gender?

A hole's a hole, right?

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