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Nostalgia4ColdWar
May 7, 2007

Good people deserve good things.

Till someone lets the winter in and the dying begins, because Old Dark Places attract Old Dark Things.


In other words, a life-long KGB operative is playing by the old KGB handbook?

It gets me that some people are surprised by what he does or champion him.





TRIPLESHOT NERDGASM! SPOT THE DIFFERENCE!

Nostalgia4ColdWar fucked around with this message at 23:23 on May 22, 2014

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Full Battle Rattle
Aug 29, 2009

As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.


That's the first time I've heard the 'he was a spy all along' case laid out. Seems plausible.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus


Booblord Zagats posted:

Putin plays very much by the old playbook and he's not the least bit afraid of NATO, he postures in every aspect of his life, from shirtless hunting trips, to smug interactions with reporters to bringing his loving dogs to play with Merkel. Guy can't go 8 seconds without whipping out his cock and slapping someone with it then whispering "America could have stopped that but they didn't".



Why would anyone want to stop that? :allears:

genderstomper58
Jan 9, 2005

by XyloJW


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggHWRpsMEmk

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013

by Lowtax


WHY WAS TRAFFIC PROBLEMS EMAIL SENT

genderstomper58
Jan 9, 2005

by XyloJW


friend of the family DEATH TURBO posted:

WHY WAS TRAFFIC PROBLEMS EMAIL SENT

Only the hard hitting questions mate

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


It's amusing to laugh at Sharpton but remember he's responsible for the Tawana Brawley fiasco and is also about the only living American to have instigated a pogrom

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001


Jesus Christ I didn't know how deep that cocksucker had gotten into different non-civil-liberty-infringing related poo poo. I'll be honest that doesn't surprise me at all. Think about it, we'd treat mil-ops FISA stuff as the holy grail of classified since it's kinda extra constitutional and we need to really prevent scrutiny of the activities at all to prevent constitutional scrutiny if the premise of the whole loving op.. So yeah, we lock that poo poo down like crazy. So what'd he get and leak? He got some documents that were oblique to day to day FISA ops poo poo, since almost all of that is ratholed down the FBI/CSS/NSA/CIA so far it's not even funny.

But he got a poo poo ton of day to day program access level poo poo on no kidding current foreign surveillance ops, you know our legit purpose for having the NSA... And that's what he's handed over to Russia.. Meanwhile, his big leaks on the FISA poo poo have almost been open secrets in the national security world for half of forever.

If he truly was an ideologue I hope that loving retard sacrificed a ton of our national security for very little long term impact on domestic civil liberties and to keep his rear end outta prison.

Because as I see it best case scenario this is some human being who wanted to expose the NSA beast and civil liberties issue.. And he stole a lot of special program family jewels to ensure his stupid rear end didn't die or go to prison for his exposing.

Which would explain why he didn't leak all these secrets to the press.. But, if he's loving giving it to the KGB anyway that makes no loving sense unless he's the dumbest human being ever or worst case he was KGB the whole time. And not worst case because "holy poo poo look what that rear end in a top hat gave them" way but instead if he was a KGB plant.. worst case scenario they've got us so penetrated they orchestrated this fuckers whole hurrang, and they were willing to lose his steady and competent access to special access programs and secure networks just to embarrass the U.S. timed with some goddamn grand scheme of putins.

Worst case means they didn't **need** this dipshit faggots continued access because it's assured elsewhere. Likely in depth and breadth.

Think of how loving easy it would have been to get agents clearance and access within only a little competent effort on their (The KGB's) part.

To demonstrate how easy it was to get a clearance and access to legitimately sensitive poo poo, look no further than our own forum.

Worst case isn't even Snowden being a plant from the KGB. The worst case is that the KGB needed to embarrass the U.S. more than continuing his good access. Because that's already been assured several times over.

That's the loving worst case. Those internet ultra left wing Stalin apologizing commie D&D weirdos exist outside I'd that forum and are probably working as bronies and technicians in every major NOC in the DoD.

Jesus loving Christ what a horrifying thought.

Nuclear War
Nov 7, 2012

You're a pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty pretty girl


Deep breaths dude

MazelTovCocktail
Jun 23, 2012

Gritty's gonna cut you.


Edit: didn't see the caro post in the picture thread.

Benagain
Oct 10, 2007

I WILL DERAIL ANY THREAD TO DEFEND PEOPLE WHO CHEAT ON THEIR SPOUSES BECAUSE I THINK THEY CAN DO NO WRONG. DO NOT LISTEN TO ME. I AM FUCKING STUPID.


Fun Shoe

Obama Africanus posted:

Jesus Christ I didn't know how deep that cocksucker had gotten into different non-civil-liberty-infringing related poo poo. I'll be honest that doesn't surprise me at all. Think about it, we'd treat mil-ops FISA stuff as the holy grail of classified since it's kinda extra constitutional and we need to really prevent scrutiny of the activities at all to prevent constitutional scrutiny if the premise of the whole loving op.. So yeah, we lock that poo poo down like crazy. So what'd he get and leak? He got some documents that were oblique to day to day FISA ops poo poo, since almost all of that is ratholed down the FBI/CSS/NSA/CIA so far it's not even funny.

But he got a poo poo ton of day to day program access level poo poo on no kidding current foreign surveillance ops, you know our legit purpose for having the NSA... And that's what he's handed over to Russia.. Meanwhile, his big leaks on the FISA poo poo have almost been open secrets in the national security world for half of forever.

If he truly was an ideologue I hope that loving retard sacrificed a ton of our national security for very little long term impact on domestic civil liberties and to keep his rear end outta prison.

Because as I see it best case scenario this is some human being who wanted to expose the NSA beast and civil liberties issue.. And he stole a lot of special program family jewels to ensure his stupid rear end didn't die or go to prison for his exposing.

Which would explain why he didn't leak all these secrets to the press.. But, if he's loving giving it to the KGB anyway that makes no loving sense unless he's the dumbest human being ever or worst case he was KGB the whole time. And not worst case because "holy poo poo look what that rear end in a top hat gave them" way but instead if he was a KGB plant.. worst case scenario they've got us so penetrated they orchestrated this fuckers whole hurrang, and they were willing to lose his steady and competent access to special access programs and secure networks just to embarrass the U.S. timed with some goddamn grand scheme of putins.

Worst case means they didn't **need** this dipshit faggots continued access because it's assured elsewhere. Likely in depth and breadth.

Think of how loving easy it would have been to get agents clearance and access within only a little competent effort on their (The KGB's) part.

To demonstrate how easy it was to get a clearance and access to legitimately sensitive poo poo, look no further than our own forum.

Worst case isn't even Snowden being a plant from the KGB. The worst case is that the KGB needed to embarrass the U.S. more than continuing his good access. Because that's already been assured several times over.

That's the loving worst case. Those internet ultra left wing Stalin apologizing commie D&D weirdos exist outside I'd that forum and are probably working as bronies and technicians in every major NOC in the DoD.

Jesus loving Christ what a horrifying thought.

Senator I have in my hands a list of three hundred bronies who work for the departments of defense, education, and state.

KirbyKhan
Mar 20, 2009
Probation
Can't post for 28 hours!


Soiled Meat

I'd be OK with a MacCarthyesq witch hunt on all broneys.

Sax Offender
Sep 9, 2007



College Slice

KirbyKhan posted:

I'd be OK with a MacCarthyesq witch hunt on all broneys.

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


KirbyKhan posted:

I'd be OK with a MacCarthyesq witch hunt on all broneys.

It's all fun and games until the innocent start getting subpoenaed to appear before the House Committee on Equine Perversions.

Ultimate Shrek Fan
May 2, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

It's all fun and games until the innocent start getting subpoenaed to appear before the House Committee on Equine Perversions.

then it's good tv.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

It's all fun and games until the innocent start getting subpoenaed to appear before the House Committee on Equine Perversions.


Then they came for the otakus, but I did not speak up

Then they came for the furries, but I did not speak up

Then they came for GBS, but I did not speak up

Then at the cost of a few innocent collaterals the world was a slightly better place, and we never told our children the things we had had to do to better their future.

Genocide Tendency
Dec 24, 2009

I get mental health care from the medical equivalent of Skillcraft.




Courthouse posted:

Then they came for the otakus, but I did not speak up

Then they came for the furries, but I did not speak up

Then they came for GBS, but I did not speak up

Then at the cost of a few innocent collaterals the world was a slightly better place, and we never told our children the things we had had to do to better their future.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


If you really want to talk 'McCarthyesque' here's something current eventy that's a lot more concrete than bronyhunting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/24/operation-choke-point/

quote:

The general outline is the DOJ and bank regulators are putting the screws to banks and other third-party payment processors to refuse banking services to companies and industries that are deemed to pose a “reputation risk” to the bank. Most controversially, the list of dubious industries is populated by enterprises that are entirely, or at least generally, legal. Tom Blumer’s extremely informative post summarizing what is known to date about Operation Choke Point reproduces the list, which includes things such as ammunition sales, escort services, get-quick-rich schemes, on-line gambling, “racist materials” and payday loans... There are also reports that porn stars have had their bank accounts terminated for “moral” reasons related to the “reputation risk” of banking individuals in the porn industry.

In principle, of course, the logic of Operation Choke Point could be extended to groups not currently targeted. Notably absent from the FDIC’s hit list, for example, are abortion clinics, radical environmental groups, or, well, marijuana shops, for that matter. Something similar was done to cut off credit-card payments to support the operation of WikiLeaks.

Even disregarding the constitutionality of this, this strikes me as one of those Pandora's boxes people are really, really going to wish was kept shut once control of the Executive flips over to a party they don't like.

quantumfoam
Dec 25, 2003



anyone catching any news about Ukraine presidental election results?

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Der Spigel is reporting that there seems to have been some forward movement in getting Snowden to come back home. Unclear what he's offering of interest to the US apart from his own neck.

tuluk posted:

anyone catching any news about Ukraine presidental election results?

With the crimean russians out, and the voting in the east being disrupted, it's a pretty clear win for the "pro-west" side. Petro Porosjenko, a cake and chocolate tycoon, is looking like the next president. gently caress knows if he'll be competent or just another oligarch in it for him self. He seems to be handing out a lot of chocolate at the rallies though, so at least the commoners are getting something out of it.

In related news, russian media is taking a break from calling the Kiev government nazis to call Petro a secret jew. Because you cant have a good tinfoil smear campaign without us in it.. :jewish:

E;

quote:

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/470503284521070592/photo/1

Grade A material. They should add hammers and sickles where the stars go. Get an old orange Lada named General Konev to run bootleg vodka in and you're golden. :ussr:

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 16:49 on May 25, 2014

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


I really hope his campaign slogan is the Ukranian version of "Gimme some sugar, baby" or at least he refers to himself as Uncle Sugar

Also the Novorossiya flag seems to be missing a little something

https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/470503284521070592/photo/1

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


Snowdens Secret posted:

I really hope his campaign slogan is the Ukranian version of "Gimme some sugar, baby" or at least he refers to himself as Uncle Sugar

Campaign song

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ICZ4ziraE

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Snowdens Secret posted:

If you really want to talk 'McCarthyesque' here's something current eventy that's a lot more concrete than bronyhunting

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/05/24/operation-choke-point/


Even disregarding the constitutionality of this, this strikes me as one of those Pandora's boxes people are really, really going to wish was kept shut once control of the Executive flips over to a party they don't like.

that article is bogus and you know it

standard.deviant
May 16, 2012

Globally Indigent

krispykremessuck posted:

that article is bogus and you know it
I don't know, their source for the list of targets is bizzyblog.com, a noted pillar of journalism.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


standard.deviant posted:

I don't know, their source for the list of targets is bizzyblog.com, a noted pillar of journalism.

Which pulls it from FDIC.gov

http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/examinations/supervisory/insights/sisum11/managing.html

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q


I clicked through most of the links just to be sure I didn't miss anything, and normally I'm willing to give you a pretty fair shake, but nothing in any of cited articles from the WaPo poo poo leads me to believe that FDIC or IRS or anyone else is involved in some shady stamp-out-the-entities-we-don't-like kind of operation.

Full Battle Rattle
Aug 29, 2009

As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.


I've heard of people in pornography having to switch banks suddenly when the banks figure out what they do.

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Full Battle Rattle posted:

I've heard of people in pornography having to switch banks suddenly when the banks figure out what they do.

That's as old as the porn industry and not related to some government conspiracy to enforce morality via the banks.

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001


The feds legit gently caress with the banking of state level legal weed outfits.. There's all kinds of hosed up banking involving cashiers checks and check cashing that has to go on for these businesses to keep their poo poo together banking wise, and it's going to make collecting all that sweet sweet ganja revenue even more of a pain in the rear end.

If the feds just levied like a 2% tax on all sales or some poo poo and let the states figure it out, we'd probably fix a lot fiscal problems, empty quite a few jails of expensive inmates related to weed, and probably save a ton of time and money and effort going after pot when we could be stamping out heroin and meth.

I'm not saying there is a morality cabal going on, I'm not that involved or informed on that whole thing, but I do know that weed guys get hosed in banking. And that there's a lot of potential for good in legalization and taxation of the market.

But it won't happen because.. reasons. I think it's interesting that while the Obama administration yanked the leash on the DOJ from going after the weed industry in the states, they didn't really do anything to change the way the banking industry handles them, or prosecuting RICO type poo poo once weed businesses had established large financial networks.

bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003



College Slice

Obama Africanus posted:

The feds legit gently caress with the banking of state level legal weed outfits.. There's all kinds of hosed up banking involving cashiers checks and check cashing that has to go on for these businesses to keep their poo poo together banking wise, and it's going to make collecting all that sweet sweet ganja revenue even more of a pain in the rear end.

If the feds just levied like a 2% tax on all sales or some poo poo and let the states figure it out, we'd probably fix a lot fiscal problems, empty quite a few jails of expensive inmates related to weed, and probably save a ton of time and money and effort going after pot when we could be stamping out heroin and meth.

I'm not saying there is a morality cabal going on, I'm not that involved or informed on that whole thing, but I do know that weed guys get hosed in banking. And that there's a lot of potential for good in legalization and taxation of the market.

But it won't happen because.. reasons. I think it's interesting that while the Obama administration yanked the leash on the DOJ from going after the weed industry in the states, they didn't really do anything to change the way the banking industry handles them, or prosecuting RICO type poo poo once weed businesses had established large financial networks.

The basic problem is that while Obama yanked that leash and told them to back off and let the states do it their way, federally there is nothing saying it is 100% kosher and that any banking institution allowing money from those sources won't get rear end hosed with red-hot coals. With the crazy as poo poo laws still on the books they're not going to touch that stuff with a poor person's pole since it is one of the few things that could still get them in trouble unless it's enough millions of dollars to justify the risk like south American drug cartels. Some dispensaries in Colorado? Not enough money. This will not be fixed for years because that would have to make it through the bugfuck crazy republican controlled side of things.

Full Battle Rattle
Aug 29, 2009

As long as the times refuse to change, we're going to make a hell of a racket.


The republicans have been slowly coming to the realization that they're on the wrong end of a lot of the culture war stuff.

BigDave
Jul 14, 2009

Taste the High Country


Full Battle Rattle posted:

The republicans have been slowly coming to the realization that they're on the wrong end of a lot of the culture war stuff.

VERY slowly. The problem is that the Tea Party keeps doubling down on batshit insanity, to the point they could almost be considered the Republican party's militant wing.

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




Like glacially slow.

OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH
Sep 9, 2001


Most of my tea party friends started as weed connects.

:shrug:

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


If you've read Gates's memoirs you're aware that the White House staff in general are a bunch of clowns when it comes to national security, with the NSS being particularly idiotic (on a sidenote, my favorite bit in the memoirs might be when Gates uses scare quotes around the word "expert" to refer to Samantha Power.)

Anyway, this probably won't do anything to change my perception of them.

In fairness, it sounds like some military press flacks also bear some of the blame here...but seriously, how does anyone see the words "CIA Chief of Station - Name" on an unclassified document and not freak the gently caress out?

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Obama Africanus posted:

The feds legit gently caress with the banking of state level legal weed outfits.. There's all kinds of hosed up banking involving cashiers checks and check cashing that has to go on for these businesses to keep their poo poo together banking wise, and it's going to make collecting all that sweet sweet ganja revenue even more of a pain in the rear end.

If the feds just levied like a 2% tax on all sales or some poo poo and let the states figure it out, we'd probably fix a lot fiscal problems, empty quite a few jails of expensive inmates related to weed, and probably save a ton of time and money and effort going after pot when we could be stamping out heroin and meth.

I'm not saying there is a morality cabal going on, I'm not that involved or informed on that whole thing, but I do know that weed guys get hosed in banking. And that there's a lot of potential for good in legalization and taxation of the market.

But it won't happen because.. reasons. I think it's interesting that while the Obama administration yanked the leash on the DOJ from going after the weed industry in the states, they didn't really do anything to change the way the banking industry handles them, or prosecuting RICO type poo poo once weed businesses had established large financial networks.

DOJ issued some poo poo allowing banks in CO to deal with dispensaries/retail outlets to avoid too many nasty situations. I don't keep close track of the weed industry because I don't really care, so I have no idea if the memo they put out means anything, or they're gonna do like they did in CA.

Regarding Snowden's article, it's really a scare piece that I could almost empathize with. I can't, and won't because while I don't like "governmental overreach", I'm not about to equate people being told not to violate interstate commerce laws (ammunition, tobacco) and a couple of porn stars getting their bank accounts shut down to massive governmental tampering with the free market because I'm not a wacko libertarian.

Banks are free to discriminate who they do and don't do business with in terms of business accounts as much as they want, and the government is free to regulate interstate commerce.

Nostalgia4Butts
Jun 1, 2006

WHERE MY HOSE DRINKERS AT

Obama Africanus posted:

Most of my tea party friends started as weed connects.

:shrug:

Same.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


BigDave posted:

VERY slowly. The problem is that the Tea Party keeps doubling down on batshit insanity, to the point they could almost be considered the Republican party's militant wing.

It's those damnable Koch brothers and their despicable right-wing agenda of gay marriage and pot legalization

KKS has a point in that the link to that FDIC list of activities wasn't really explained. It comes from here:
http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/financial/2013/fil13043.html

... which is essentially the guidance for Choke Point, where it is listed as a footnote. That doesn't actually mean they're going after everything in that rather vague list, or certainly not at least with equal vigor. (I'll go ahead and say that gun stores and online ammo sellers have been complaining about hassles with their credit card processors long before this and it's hard to find any real evidence of federal tampering among plenty of just poor business management combined with a heaping helping of tinfoil hattery.)

He also has a point that DOJ can regulate interstate commerce. It can do so by prosecuting what it sees as illegal activity in the courts, as in the example of the Four Oaks case. That's not what people are complaining about. In fact, it's exactly what they're asking DOJ to do:

quote:

Unfortunately, the strategy is legally dubious. Justice is pressuring banks to shut down accounts without pressing charges against a merchant or even establishing that the merchant broke the law. It's clear enough that there's fraud to shut down the account, Justice asserts, but apparently not clear enough for the highest law-enforcement agency in the land to prosecute.

Banks, which need a reliable and safe payments network to survive, have always worked with law enforcement to fight fraud and even terrorism in the financial system. Banks provide tips to law enforcement when a customer's behavior seems fishy, and they assist in investigations when asked. In the past year alone, banks have filed nearly a million suspicious activity reports with regulators, including suspicions of mortgage fraud, identity theft, counterfeit debit and credit cards, tax evasion and wire-transfer fraud.

But law-enforcement agencies and courts, not banks, are responsible for determining criminal violations. The 1970 Bank Secrecy Act spells out the proper partnership for banks and law-enforcement agencies. The law established record keeping and reporting requirements for banks so that law-enforcement agencies would have the evidence needed to prosecute criminals effectively. That is the division of labor and responsibility envisioned by Congress: drawing upon each other's strengths to fight crime.

Justice is now blurring these boundaries and punishing the banks that help them fight crime. If a bank doesn't shut down a questionable account when directed to do so, Justice slaps the institution with a penalty for wrongdoing that may or may not have happened. The government is compelling banks to deny service to unpopular but perfectly legal industries by threatening penalties. This puts them in a difficult business position.

Bank regulators—particularly the FDIC—have joined in the action, warning banks away from serving more than 22 categories of businesses, including "Get Rich Products," "Ammunition Sales," "Pharmaceutical Sales," "Home Based Charities," and even "As Seen on TV" businesses. Some of these businesses may indeed be risky. But that doesn't justify pre-emptively declaring them all criminals and freezing their access to the payments system.

So the question isn't whether the banks can pick and choose who they do business with in a free market, it's whether they can be told who to do business with, or be plunged themselves into lawsuits where the costs of the suits themselves may far exceed any potential fines, if any. It's the chilling effects that are the real damage.

Note this article which is far more skeptical of an actual link between the anti-alternative banking program and any real or imagined anti-porn or anti-gun stuff:
http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/12/operation-chokepoint-free-speech-concern

E: It's also worth pointing out that nothing at all in these claims suggest any 'vice' industries (ammunition, tobacco) are breaking interstate commerce laws with their product, i.e. shipping ammo to where it's not legal, etc. The claim is that these industries are especially susceptible to, and/or encouraging, credit card fraud. E2: I reread it and that's not right. In fact it's even more unclear why ammo, tobacco, coins etc are on that list. Those are potentially useful items for credit card fraud because they resell on the secondary / black market at such high relative value, but that's not what any of the FDIC stuff seems to suggest the program is for. Obviously there are more effective and direct ways of dealing with ammo / tobacco etc dealers (and the US Mint, I guess) if they're shipping products illegally.

Snowdens Secret fucked around with this message at 08:03 on May 26, 2014

psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Casimir Radon posted:

Like glacially slow.

Fortunately, the Tea Party stance on climate change has ensured a future revision of that very adjective.

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krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

Snowdens Secret posted:

It's those damnable Koch brothers and their despicable right-wing agenda of gay marriage and pot legalization

KKS has a point in that the link to that FDIC list of activities wasn't really explained. It comes from here:
http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/financial/2013/fil13043.html

... which is essentially the guidance for Choke Point, where it is listed as a footnote. That doesn't actually mean they're going after everything in that rather vague list, or certainly not at least with equal vigor. (I'll go ahead and say that gun stores and online ammo sellers have been complaining about hassles with their credit card processors long before this and it's hard to find any real evidence of federal tampering among plenty of just poor business management combined with a heaping helping of tinfoil hattery.)

He also has a point that DOJ can regulate interstate commerce. It can do so by prosecuting what it sees as illegal activity in the courts, as in the example of the Four Oaks case. That's not what people are complaining about. In fact, it's exactly what they're asking DOJ to do:


So the question isn't whether the banks can pick and choose who they do business with in a free market, it's whether they can be told who to do business with, or be plunged themselves into lawsuits where the costs of the suits themselves may far exceed any potential fines, if any. It's the chilling effects that are the real damage.

Note this article which is far more skeptical of an actual link between the anti-alternative banking program and any real or imagined anti-porn or anti-gun stuff:
http://reason.com/blog/2014/05/12/operation-chokepoint-free-speech-concern

E: It's also worth pointing out that nothing at all in these claims suggest any 'vice' industries (ammunition, tobacco) are breaking interstate commerce laws with their product, i.e. shipping ammo to where it's not legal, etc. The claim is that these industries are especially susceptible to, and/or encouraging, credit card fraud. E2: I reread it and that's not right. In fact it's even more unclear why ammo, tobacco, coins etc are on that list. Those are potentially useful items for credit card fraud because they resell on the secondary / black market at such high relative value, but that's not what any of the FDIC stuff seems to suggest the program is for. Obviously there are more effective and direct ways of dealing with ammo / tobacco etc dealers (and the US Mint, I guess) if they're shipping products illegally.

Likely because, for instance, buying tobacco in one state and shipping it to another has some nasty implications legally, and, iirc, has mostly been shut down.

Anyway, my main gripe was with the WaPo article itself which used a bunch of different stories with very tenuous connections to Chokepoint. It's not that I don't believe the government would ever do things to tamper with it, it's that I'm skeptical and the WaPo article, nor it's own citations do anything to support the idea.

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