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The Stygian
Feb 7, 2007

Exeggutor?

Casimir Radon posted:

Shithead was reading Atlas Shrugged, typical.

I unironically enjoyed this book. People seem to like ragging on it. Maybe it's just the cool thing to do.

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Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011




Pork Pro

ThatBasqueGuy posted:

They're making nice progress towards their next formable


https://twitter.com/Dawla_NewsMedia/statuses/472750040424153089

India would nuke the entire Earth before they let any kind of Islamic majority occur in their borders

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




The Stygian posted:

I unironically enjoyed this book. People seem to like ragging on it. Maybe it's just the cool thing to do.
Anyone who enjoys that book past their self-centered teenager phase is seriously hosed in the head.

ded
Oct 27, 2005

Kooler than Jesus


ThatBasqueGuy posted:

They're making nice progress towards their next formable


https://twitter.com/Dawla_NewsMedia/statuses/472750040424153089

Other than them taking control of Indian and Pakistani nukes I don't see a problem with this.


Actually maybe it would be a good thing if they got them.

PupsOfWar
Dec 6, 2013



where is the Ottoman Empire when you need them

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011




It's reassuring that at least there's someone out there not laying claim to Cyprus.

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


Courthouse posted:

The post WWII technical win to abject failure ratio looks rather dim, yes.

This is what happens when you tie a hand behind your back.

MazelTovCocktail
Jun 23, 2012

Gritty's gonna cut you.


https://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/12/world/middleeast/iraq-asked-us-for-airstrikes-on-militants-officials-say.html

I'm waiting for the wonderful 2014 election cycle about Obama losing Iraq.

Whip Slagcheek
Sep 21, 2008

Finally
The Gasoline And Dynamite
Will Light The Sky
For The Night




They should just ask their friends to the north for help if they're so hard up. I'm sure Iran would love the opportunity to drop a few bombs on a Kurdish city.

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013

by Lowtax



http://online.wsj.com/articles/the-fall-of-mosul-1402442628?KEYWORDS=iraq+opinion

e:

wsj posted:

So much for al Qaeda being on a path to defeat, as President Obama used to be fond of boasting. On Tuesday fighters for the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, an al Qaeda affiliate known as ISIS, seized total control of the northern city of Mosul—with nearly two million people—after four days of fighting. Thousands of civilians have fled for their lives, including the governor of Nineveh province, who spoke of the "massive collapse" of the Iraqi army. This could also describe the state of U.S. policy in Iraq.

Since President Obama likes to describe everything he inherited from his predecessor as a "mess," it's worth remembering that when President Bush left office Iraq was largely at peace. Civilian casualties fell from an estimated 31,400 in 2006 to 4,700 in 2009. U.S. military casualties were negligible. Then CIA Director Michael Hayden said, with good reason, that "al Qaeda is on the verge of a strategic defeat in Iraq."

Fast forward through five years of the Administration's indifference, and Iraq is close to exceeding the kind of chaos that engulfed it before the U.S. surge. The city of Fallujah, taken from insurgents by the Marines at a cost of 95 dead and nearly 600 wounded in November 2004, fell again to al Qaeda in January. The Iraqi government has not been able to reclaim the entire city—just 40 miles from Baghdad. More than 1,000 Iraqi civilians were killed in May alone, according to the Iraq Body Count web site.

The collapse of the Iraqi army in Mosul and its inability to retake Fallujah reflect poorly on the competence of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, whose Shiite "State of Law" coalition won a plurality of seats in parliamentary elections in April and will likely win a third term later this year.

Mr. Maliki has an autocratic streak and has done little to reassure Iraq's Sunnis, which makes it easy for the Obama Administration to blame him for Iraq's troubles. His dalliance with the regime in Tehran—including a reported $195 million arms deal in February—doesn't add to his stature.

Yet groups such as ISIS are beyond the reach of political palliation. It is an illusion that a more pro-Sunni coloration to any democratically elected Iraqi government would have made much of a difference to the debacle in Mosul. Mr. Maliki may also be forgiven for being unable to control the terrorist spillover from the chaos in neighboring Syria, where ISIS first took hold. Whatever its failures, the Iraqi government doesn't have the luxury of pivoting away from its own neighborhood.

That can't be said for the Obama Administration. Its promise of a "diplomatic surge" in Iraq to follow the military surge of the preceding years never materialized as the U.S. washed its hands of the country. Mr. Obama's offer of a couple thousand troops beyond 2011 was so low that Mr. Maliki didn't think it was worth the domestic criticism it would engender. An American President more mindful of U.S. interests would have made Mr. Maliki an offer he couldn't refuse.

Mr. Maliki had to plead for emergency military equipment when he visited the U.S. last year, and the U.S. has mostly slow-rolled the delivery of arms. Now that stocks of U.S. military supplies have fallen into ISIS's hands in Mosul, the Administration's instinct will be to adopt an ultra-cautious approach to further arms deliveries. Mr. Maliki is likely to depend even more on Iran for aid, increasing the spread of the Sunni-Shiite regional conflict.

The Administration's policy of strategic neglect toward Iraq has created a situation where al Qaeda effectively controls territories stretching for hundreds of miles through Anbar Province and into Syria. It will likely become worse for Iraq as the Assad regime consolidates its gains in Syria and gives ISIS an incentive to seek its gains further east. It will also have consequences for the territorial integrity of Iraq, as the Kurds consider independence for their already autonomous and relatively prosperous region.

All this should serve as a warning to what we can expect in Afghanistan as the Administration replays its Iraq strategy of full withdrawal after 2016. It should also serve as a reminder of the magnitude of the strategic blunder of leaving no U.S. forces in Iraq after the country finally had a chance to serve as a new anchor of stability and U.S. influence in the region. An Iraqi army properly aided by U.S. air power would not have collapsed as it did in Mosul.

In withdrawing from Iraq in toto, Mr. Obama put his desire to have a talking point for his re-election campaign above America's strategic interests. Now we and the world are facing this reality: A civil war in Iraq and the birth of a terrorist haven that has the confidence, and is fast acquiring the means, to raise a banner for a new generation of jihadists, both in Iraq and beyond.

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


God drat it Archer!

TheObserver
Nov 7, 2012


America...



gently caress!



...yeah.

shyduck
Oct 3, 2003




you see, we should've just made iraq the 51st state

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011




Pork Pro

The following is an expert strategy on dealing with future problems in Afghanistan


Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Booblord Zagats posted:

The following is an expert strategy on dealing with future problems in Afghanistan




First, we would have to invent space marines.

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011




Pork Pro

Mad Dragon posted:

First, we would have to invent space marines.

Who in turn would all just wish they were Orbital SEALs

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010



Nap Ghost

Booblord Zagats posted:

The following is an expert strategy on dealing with future problems in Afghanistan




So basically what Joe Biden wanted to do back in 2009.

In other news, Maliki is asking us to pull his rear end out of the fire.

Iraq Said to Seek U.S. Strikes on Militants

Apparently he asked for some help a couple months back but Obama told him to gently caress off because gently caress that.

Whip Slagcheek
Sep 21, 2008

Finally
The Gasoline And Dynamite
Will Light The Sky
For The Night




Iraq War 3: this time we're serious.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


shyduck posted:

you see, we should've just made iraq the 51st state

This but only half as ironically

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004


Fun Shoe

Whip Slagcheek posted:

Iraq War 3: this time we're serious.

Think I'm going to wait till it comes out on DVD

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010



Nap Ghost

Snowdens Secret posted:

This but only half as ironically

Decent ruins, some oil, but worse people than Mississippi.

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Realtalkin' "Renew Shia/Sunni foreverwar, also conduct wholesale tribalist slaughter" has been on the to-do list of most of the Mideast since the Ottomans fell. I'm still convinced that in the long run that area will go through a lot less pain having had us punch the reset button sooner, rather than let some tinpot dictators run their genocides and bushwars for a few decades more and then have all this poo poo inevitably happen (would've been better in the '90s before Euro was too broke to help, but whatev.)

The only real argument is whether we could've eased Iraq through or even avoided this phase with a long (decades) occupation. The Japs had been doing the tribalist slaughter thing for centuries at least before we showed up and it only took two to three generations of occupation to work that out of their system.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



Tikrit has now fallen too

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/12/crisis-in-iraq-insurgents-take-major-cities-live-blog

Nostalgia4ColdWar
May 7, 2007

Good people deserve good things.

Till someone lets the winter in and the dying begins, because Old Dark Places attract Old Dark Things.


Countdown till people start talking about how we 'abandoned our allies in Iraq' because of... well... whatever.

It'll all be blamed on the US.

krispykremessuck
Jul 22, 2005

unlike most veterans and SA members $10 is not a meaningful expenditure for me

I'm gonna have me a swag Bar-B-Q

50 Foot Ant posted:

Countdown till people start talking about how we 'abandoned our allies in Iraq' because of... well... whatever.

It'll all be blamed on the US.

why would there be a countdown that started years ago

bulletsponge13
Apr 28, 2010


50 Foot Ant posted:

Countdown till people start talking about how we 'abandoned our allies in Iraq' because of... well... whatever.

It'll all be blamed on the US.

Because we went in to "fix" poo poo and completely destabilized the area with a lack of an exit plan, where we balled out on a country that was in juvenile development in terms of a new government. We left them with a lovely half assed military made up of unmoyivated dudes with no real experienced leadership because of us deciding gently caress those guys, then trying to give them American style everything rather than adapting our system to their culture. Then there was the whole surge bullshit, arming deathsquads and paying them so they were then "security forces" and we could say that insurgent activity was down in Anbar, leaving those motherfuckers armed and unsupervised all because Bush put worthless fuckstain Pateaus as Supreme Reichsmarshall of Nickels. gently caress the whole situation. I feel like poo poo because I put a ton of work in, and wanted to do the right thing, and wanted Iraq to come out better than when we went in.
So yeah, kinda our fault.

Nostalgia4ColdWar
May 7, 2007

Good people deserve good things.

Till someone lets the winter in and the dying begins, because Old Dark Places attract Old Dark Things.


bulletsponge13 posted:

Because we went in to "fix" poo poo and completely destabilized the area with a lack of an exit plan, where we balled out on a country that was in juvenile development in terms of a new government. We left them with a lovely half assed military made up of unmoyivated dudes with no real experienced leadership because of us deciding gently caress those guys, then trying to give them American style everything rather than adapting our system to their culture. Then there was the whole surge bullshit, arming deathsquads and paying them so they were then "security forces" and we could say that insurgent activity was down in Anbar, leaving those motherfuckers armed and unsupervised all because Bush put worthless fuckstain Pateaus as Supreme Reichsmarshall of Nickels. gently caress the whole situation. I feel like poo poo because I put a ton of work in, and wanted to do the right thing, and wanted Iraq to come out better than when we went in.
So yeah, kinda our fault.

See, this is all right.

I get this.

I'm more talking about the infamous "GET US OUT OF IRAQ! No, wait, WHY DID WE ABANDON IRAQ?" people.

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


quote:

All this should serve as a warning to what we can expect in Afghanistan as the Administration replays its Iraq strategy of full withdrawal after 2016. It should also serve as a reminder of the magnitude of the strategic blunder of leaving no U.S. forces in Iraq after the country finally had a chance to serve as a new anchor of stability and U.S. influence in the region. An Iraqi army properly aided by U.S. air power would not have collapsed as it did in Mosul.

:laffo:


In better news;


quote:

Kurdish forces are in full control of Iraq's oil city of Kirkuk after the federal army abandoned their posts, a Peshmerga spokesman told Reuter.


"The whole of Kirkuk has fallen into the hands of peshmerga," said Jabbar Yawar, referring to the Kurdish forces. "No Iraq army remains in Kirkuk now".


On Wednesday Iraq's foreign minister Hoshyar Zebari urged Kurdish and central government leaders to set aside their differences to deal with the "mortal threat" posed by Isis.

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jun 12, 2014

kemikalkadet
Sep 16, 2012

:woof:



quote:

An estimated 30,000 Iraqi troops fled from just 800 insurgents after three days of sporadic fighting in Mosul, handing Isis its most significant gain in the sectarian clashes.

Holy poo poo is the IA really that bad?

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


kemikalkadet posted:

Holy poo poo is the IA really that bad?

Well, there's a poo poo-ton of local militias and criminals who are also fighting the government. So it's a few more than 800 shooting at them.

But yes, it really is an army in name only. Expect the peshmega to be the ones retaking the north. I wouldn't be surprised if this collapse ends with the Kurds finally taking effective control of Mosul and Kirkuk. Who's going to save the rest of the country, gently caress knows. Maliki will need to have someone come in and save him. The Shia can hold Baghdad and the south, but the rest would be lost for the government.

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jun 12, 2014

Genocide Tendency
Dec 24, 2009

I get mental health care from the medical equivalent of Skillcraft.




Zeroisanumber posted:

Decent ruins, some oil, but worse people than Mississippi.

Texas was admitted to the Union in 1845.

LimburgLimbo
Feb 10, 2008

One day I will be happy
every day


Snowdens Secret posted:

Realtalkin' "Renew Shia/Sunni foreverwar, also conduct wholesale tribalist slaughter" has been on the to-do list of most of the Mideast since the Ottomans fell. I'm still convinced that in the long run that area will go through a lot less pain having had us punch the reset button sooner, rather than let some tinpot dictators run their genocides and bushwars for a few decades more and then have all this poo poo inevitably happen (would've been better in the '90s before Euro was too broke to help, but whatev.)

The only real argument is whether we could've eased Iraq through or even avoided this phase with a long (decades) occupation. The Japs had been doing the tribalist slaughter thing for centuries at least before we showed up and it only took two to three generations of occupation to work that out of their system.

Uh, the Japanese had like 250+ years without any major wars before they were made to open to the west at gunpoint by the Americans. The point of almost every shogunate period Japanese media is how the lack of conflict was transforming the warrior class into largely glorified clerks.

LimburgLimbo fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Jun 12, 2014

psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Welp, Brown Moses just got quoted in a Washington Post article about the $425 million that the ISIS lifted from Mosul.

Cole
Nov 24, 2004

DUNSON'D

They should just send like five divisions to Iraq, make it weapons free like it was for a short time ten years ago, and just kill everybody. gently caress this nonsense.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005



I hope we don't do a thing. We tried to set up a SOFA in 2011 in order to keep troops in Iraq longer. They refused and basically kicked us out. My ship was the one that turned Al Basra Oil Terminal (ABOT) back to Iraqi control. There was such an absolute shitstorm of confusion from every tanker or ship that came into the area. Everything that we had been doing, such as monitoring which tankers were in waiting to go to the terminal, preventing any vessels from getting a certain distance from the terminal, etc stopped instantly. The new guys on the terminal would ignore any tanker radioing them unless they were supposed to pull up to the terminal next. The patrol boats wouldn't budge until someone was nearly at the terminal and then would scramble, yell, and threaten to fire guns at anyone who happened to cross the line. All the while we were constantly hailed by all the tankers that were used to the system that we installed 7-8 years earlier. They were always confused as to what they should do. All we were allowed to do is basically shrug our shoulders and tell them to radio the terminal knowing full well that no one on the terminal actually gave gently caress. We would routinely see all the Iraqi patrol boats just take off and go to shore. We asked them why, and it would always be something like "oh so and so has the shits so all the boats have to come in" or "in our rush to go yell at the Iranian flagged dhow and fire our pistols at them to get them to leave, one of our guys shot himself in the leg so we all have to go in."

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010



Nap Ghost

Amazingly (and given the way that history has treated them almost unbelievably) no one is slaughtering the Kurds wholesale and they might even come out on top with a de facto state of their own after this. Somewhere in Ankara, Ataturk's mummy cries a single dusty tear.

NIGGER DEATH TURBO
Jul 4, 2013

by Lowtax


Cole posted:

They should just send like five divisions to Iraq, make it weapons free like it was for a short time ten years ago, and just kill everybody. gently caress this nonsense.

this is dumb ur dumb

also all the obummer blaming so far is amazing, everyone seems to forget the reason we don't have a force in Iraq currently is the iraqis wouldn't agree to the SOFA we proposed and wanted to have us troops accountable under Iraqi law in Iraqi courts, which lol @ that. also makes maliki begging for airstrikes even funnier, nigga u had your chance to get that and let it walk away

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


bulletsponge13 posted:

Because we went in to "fix" poo poo

No we didn't, we went in to topple Saddam. That's as far as our plan went. We didn't even move to secure the borders for months. Reconstruction contractors and supplies should have been right behind the ships carrying tanks and MREs. But...nope.

I still don't think it would've ended well, but reconstruction never had a chance to succeed. We stormed the valley and let Iran et al have the overlooking hills.

shyduck posted:

you see, we should've just made iraq the 51st state

I'd rather invade Puerto Rico. It'd be great without so many drat Puerto Ricans.

Godholio fucked around with this message at 13:19 on Jun 12, 2014

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


Nuke everything, and spread an aerosolized version of the Ebolapox that the USSR developed just for shits and giggles.

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Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Hassan Rouhani has declared in a televised speech that Iran stands ready to aid Iraq in combating the terrorist threat. With any luck failing to stop the Iranians from getting the bomb will have an unforeseen upside of us not having to take the blame for the solution to the current troubles. :toot:

Courthouse fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Jun 12, 2014

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