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MazelTovCocktail
Jun 23, 2012

Gritty's gonna cut you.


Snowdens Secret posted:

Quoting tweets is such a pain in the rear end


Again I have no idea how much of that is armchair BS and there's Rus tweeters in there talking about USA's 'regime protector' forces so it may all be tinfoil nonsense

E: so that'd be these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Guards_Kantemirovskaya_Tank_Division

And these guys: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2nd_Guards_Tamanskaya_Motor_Rifle_Division

Also the newest ECM units: http://dumskaya.net/news/na-byvshej-ukrainskoj-baze-v-krymu-obosnovalis-n-034132/

Thanks! I appreciate it.

4th Guards did historically have the coup protection "mission"...of course they did try and overthrow Yeltsin. Interestingly 4th Guards was downgraded to two brigades....but more on that in a second.

2nd Guards was also split into two brigades...but was recently reactivated as a Division in December last year...along with 4th Guards.

quote:

The Division was re-formed in 2013 by order of Russian defense minister Sergei Shoigu,[5] and will consist of the 5th Separate Motor-Rifle Brigade, the 4th Independent Tank Brigade and other unnamed units.[6] This order is pursuant to Russian President Vladimir Putin's intention to "strengthen the historical continuity" of the Russian Armed Forces by resurrecting the names of "famous, legendary units and formations of the Russian and Soviet armies".[6][7] Another division, the 4th Guards Kantemirovskaya Tank Division was also reinstated under the same order.

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psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Can anyone imagine 50,000 troops at NTC? That'd be a clusterfuck and a half.

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010


Nap Ghost

In my life I've never seen a country bring 50,000 troops to a state of readiness unless they were going somewhere.

Kung Fu Fist Fuck
Aug 9, 2009


Snowdens Secret posted:

Doublepostin' so I don't have to keep editing:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...0294243784.html


STEALTH TARPS :argh: IF ONLY WE'D BOUGHT GRIPENS

Seriously that's a doubling of publicly released estimates in, what, three days?

quote:

The U.S. believes Russia now has nearly 50,000 troops in position for possible operations, including those participating in the declared exercises along the Ukrainian border and those already inside Russian-controlled Crimea, officials said.

U.S. and Western officials previously have said there were 20,000 Russian forces along Ukraine's border, in addition to those inside Crimea, estimated at as many as 25,000.

the way thats written it seems like they estimated 45k troops, and now theyre at 50k

also lollin at that gripen vid

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011


I wouldn't want to be a Ukrainian conscript right now. What would it feel like to hear an armoured division turning over their engines in the middle of the night?

Booblord Zagats
Oct 30, 2011




Pork Pro

Frosted Flake posted:

I wouldn't want to be a Ukrainian conscript right now. What would it feel like to hear an armoured division turning over their engines in the middle of the night?

Imagine the same as it sounds when you're 17, it's Friday night and you're balls deep in some girl and you hear her dad's car pull in to the drive way with no real escape route

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


quote:

Although the Pentagon has cited assurances from Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu that its troops along the border were sent for exercises and that they would not cross into Ukraine, U.S. officials have acknowledged concerns about continued Russian reinforcements to the area.

“We’ve seen no specific indications that these – that exercises – are taking place,” Pentagon spokesman Rear Admiral John Kirby told a news briefing.

But when pressed, Kirby added: “Just because we haven’t seen an indication of exercises now doesn’t mean that one won’t occur.”

“(The Russians) made it clear that their intent was to do exercises and not to cross the border. Our expectation is they’re going to live up to that word,” he said.

Admiral, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

It's always 2am somewhere.


Frosted Flake posted:

I wouldn't want to be a Ukrainian conscript right now. What would it feel like to hear an armoured division turning over their engines in the middle of the night?

Especially since Ukraine just got rid of conscription....

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?


Wait, so what are the USA's regime protection units? The Old Guard?

Kung Fu Fist Fuck
Aug 9, 2009


Godholio posted:

Wait, so what are the USA's regime protection units? The Old Guard?

silent drill team stationed at 8th and i

i hear their hazing rituals consist of edge dressing and anuses

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

i hear their hazing rituals consist of edge dressing and anuses
Butt chugging.

Iseeyouseemeseeyou
Jan 3, 2011


Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

silent drill team stationed at 8th and i

i hear their hazing rituals consist of edge dressing and anuses

Don't the marines do a lot of war games around DC?

Zeroisanumber
Oct 23, 2010


Nap Ghost

Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:

Don't the marines do a lot of war games around DC?

They do them in Minneapolis around the Mississippi River from time to time. Every now and then I get paid OT to park my ambulance, turn on the lights, and then read my phone until they want me to pretend to pick someone up.

psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:

Don't the marines do a lot of war games around DC?

No, unless you count routine training at AP Hill or Pickett as "war games".

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004


Fun Shoe

Godholio posted:

Wait, so what are the USA's regime protection units? The Old Guard?

My dad was in the old guard and some of the things he mentioned sounded like regime protection, like getting ready to shoot hippies if they stormed the white house. Or getting ready to shoot blacks if they stormed the white house. Or getting ready to shoot democrats if they stormed the white house.

EBB
Feb 15, 2005

What, Me Worry?


Really wish Pickett would burn down. That place sucks.

Kung Fu Fist Fuck
Aug 9, 2009


EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

Really wish earth would burn down. That place sucks.

Brenwolf
Oct 24, 2005

I quite enjoy Tom Peepery.

EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

Really wish Pickett would burn down. That place sucks.

Helldump Immunity.
Aug 2, 2013

Fuck you


EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

Really wish Pickett would burn down. That place sucks.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





orange juche fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Mar 29, 2014

Helldump Immunity.
Aug 2, 2013

Fuck you


Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

the way thats written it seems like they estimated 45k troops, and now theyre at 50k

Not from the same link but this is how it's usually being written

quote:

The most conservative American assessments, apparently based on satellite data, say that Russia has massed between 40,000 and 50,000 troops within striking distance of Ukraine, including those already in Crimea. That total has apparently risen from 30,000 only a week ago.

Also:

quote:

Nato has appointed Jens Stoltenberg, the former Norwegian prime minister leader who once opposed the transatlantic alliance, to lead it when Anders Fogh Rasmussen, its current secretary general, steps down later this year.

In his youth Mr Stoltenberg, now 55, objected both to Nato and the European Community, two organisations that he eventually came to support, and as a long-haired teenager he threw stones at the US embassy in 1973 after Washington's bombardment of Haiphong in North Vietnam.

I kinda liked Rasmussen, especially since he got short-timer syndrome. Stoltenberg is extremely outspoken against nuclear weapons:

quote:

His early radicalism is an initial red flag: While serving as a minister of industry and energy, he joined a 1995 bicycle rally from Oslo to Paris to protest French nuclear-weapons testing. His defenders might object that many a responsible European politician—think Joschka Fischer —spent his youth in Europe's far-left fever swamps.

Fair enough. But with Mr. Stoltenberg, it appears that his radical notions have been merely diluted with age—but not altogether discarded.

In 2006, during Mr. Stoltenberg's second premiership, Norway's State Pension Global Fund divested from three U.S. companies— Boeing, Northrop Grumman and Honeywell - because they help produce nuclear weapons. "One-hundred percent of [companies] found guilty of serious or systematic human rights violations . . . are American," the U.S. ambassador to Norway complained at the time. "Is it reasonable to believe that among the pension fund's 4,000-plus companies from all over the world, the process has revealed that only American companies are unethical?"

Then there is Russia, which has once again emerged as NATO's chief adversary in Europe. In his first term as premier in 2001, Mr. Stoltenberg declared that "under no terms will Norway allow any foreign military activities on its territories," according to an account of his remarks published by the Nordic press, adding that "his country had never allowed military bases or nuclear weapons on its territories as it can be regarded as a threat to neighboring countries." He didn't specify which neighboring states he had in mind, but perhaps that was unnecessary, since he was speaking to an audience at the Russian Foreign Ministry's Diplomatic Academy.

Caconym
Feb 12, 2013



Meh, Jens is a career politician and is extremely good at hiding his own opinions.
That also extends to his youth when he was a leader of the labour partys youth wing.
He served his conscription in the infantry at the height of the cold war and his father served as minister of both foreign affairs and defence as well as an extremely respected president of the Norwegian Red Cross when he retired from politics.

He's an economist, and appears to be a good one.

I don't agree with all his views, but as a person he appears to a genuinely good man and a good leader.

He will be loyal to the organization at all costs.

That the WSJ doesn't like a Norwegian labour leader is hardly a surprise...

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


Tartars want their own state as well.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/29/us-ukraine-crisis-crimea-tatars-idUSBREA2S09320140329

Crimea wants them moved.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20140319/188544777/Crimean-Tatars-Will-Have-to-Vacate-Land--Official.html

psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


I believe Russia has experience with pogroms programs of that nature.

Best Friends
Nov 4, 2011



Norway wants to get things done, they know who to send.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn-oemgzlEU

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1f3e_story.html

quote:

A majority of Germans, according to two recent opinion polls, are opposed to significant new sanctions. In addition, one poll suggests that a majority of Germans sympathize with Putin’s desire to protect Russian national interests in Crimea.

At the same time, profound skepticism of the United States after spying revelations by Edward Snowden last year has added to the pressure here. For a vocal minority, the breach of trust exposed by U.S. eavesdropping on the German leader has cast doubt on any initiative advocated by Washington.“A positive image of Russia has grown in Germany, which is a mixture of culturalism and admiration of Putin as the strong man standing up against the U.S.,” said Stefan Meister, senior policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations.
...
In a mid-March poll for the German public TV network ZDF, only 26 percent of those asked supported economic sanctions beyond the limited visa bans and asset freezes already imposed. A poll published last Saturday by the German news magazine Der Spiegel, meanwhile, indicated that 55 percent of respondents showed either a lot of or some “understanding” for Crimea being part of a Russian zone of influence.

Those numbers suggest the more nuanced view of Russia in Germany, where the misdeeds of Moscow are still colored by World War II-era guilt and a deep-seated sense of pacifism. On the political right, voices are warning that tough measures might not work even as they damage the German economy. On the left, meanwhile, there are voices that share Moscow’s contempt for the new Ukrainian government, which contains far-right elements, anathema in modern Germany.

iyaayas01
Feb 19, 2010

Perry'd


lol

Remind me again why NATO is still a thing?

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


iyaayas01 posted:

lol

Remind me again why NATO is still a thing?

One could argue it's specifically for scenarios like this (or a far more drastic Cold War scenario) where weak leaders could tell their recalcitrant citizenry "Welp, this treaty trigger was reached, a UN resolution was passed, the jets are heading east already, my hands are tied." Instead of, you know, having to make a convincing argument to the entire volk, a skill that has apparently vanished from the shores of the Western world.

Which is part of why the not-stupid Putin will meticulously avoid triggering NATO commitments (at least in the foreseeable future) and will use legalese nonsense, non-state actors and the UNSC veto to keep the UN off his back.

Helldump Immunity.
Aug 2, 2013

Fuck you


iyaayas01 posted:

lol

Remind me again why NATO is still a thing?

Sweet TDYs.

psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Germans feeling sympathetic toward nations conquering the territory of other countries to protect ethnic descendants? That's a new one.

Whip Slagcheek
Sep 21, 2008

Finally
The Gasoline And Dynamite
Will Light The Sky
For The Night




psydude posted:

Germans feeling sympathetic toward nations conquering the territory of other countries to protect ethnic descendants? That's a new one.

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Russian children.

Casimir Radon
Aug 1, 2008




Whip Slagcheek posted:

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Russian children.
I don't think Russian children have much of a future.

Citations: Youtube

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.



I don't think Russian children have much of a future.*

Citing Daniel Pipes in 2013:

quote:

Not only do ethnic Muslims account for 21–23 million of Russia’s total population of 144 million, or 15 percent, but their proportion is fast growing. Alcoholism-plagued ethnic Russians are said to have European birth rates and African life-expectancy, with the former just 1.4 per woman and the latter 60 years for men. In Moscow, ethnic Christian women have 1.1 children.

In contrast, Muslim women bear 2.3 children on average and have fewer abortions than their Russian counterparts. In Moscow, Tatar women have six children and Chechen and Ingush women have ten on average. In addition, some 3 to 4 million Muslims have moved to Russia from ex-republics of the USSR, mainly Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan; and some ethnic Russians are converting to Islam.

In this context the reach out for 'ethnic Russians' in Ukraine, Moldova etc can be seen as less some nebulously humanitarian thing and more a frantic grab at a dwindling natural resource, which makes far more historical sense as a reason for war

*This is old data but the newest stuff still supports it, even if overall Russia's birth rates are recovering it's all in places like Chechnya/Dagestan and the very non-Russian Far East, and 'ethnic Russian' birth rates are still completely in the shitter. It's just all in Cyrillic and I don't want to quote a google translate mess

Snowdens Secret
Dec 29, 2008
Someone got you a obnoxiously racist av.


Oh yeah also this

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/vladimir-putin-wants-regain-finland-says-close-adviser-1442466

psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Worked out well last time.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012






That is why you do not start wars in the winter.

That is why you don't start a war during the winter, right after getting rid of your best generals in favor of political cronies.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Mar 30, 2014

Courthouse
Jul 23, 2013


orange juche posted:

That is why you do not start wars in the winter.

That is why you don't start a war during the winter, right after getting rid of your best generals in favor of political cronies.

Also, small ethnic enclaves on Russias borders seem to overall really, really, not want to be part of Russia. See; Finns, Chechens, Dagestanis.

orange juche
Mar 14, 2012





Courthouse posted:

Also, small ethnic enclaves on Russias borders seem to overall really, really, not want to be part of Russia. See; Finns, Chechens, Dagestanis.

But Putin just wants Russia to rise back to its former glory that it enjoyed under its last Tsar.

:qq: Why can't the rest of the world understand that? The people living in those areas are just squatting on Russian territory after all.

Edit: Much as all of the countries that border the South China Sea actually have no right to any of the body of water that is there nor the resources under it, it all belongs to China after all, according to 300+ year old maps, and furthermore


E2: May as well lump in the Sea of Japan as well, as that is owned by China on some old maps as well, I mean gently caress, just throw in everything west of Hawaii because China was probably there first.

orange juche fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Mar 30, 2014

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psydude
Mar 31, 2008

Perry'd.


Yeah WTF is up with people in the West white-knighting Putin?

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