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Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007



Ok so the question is pretty much summed up in the thread title. Over my time in SA, I spent a lot of time in GBS and over time was exposed to a lot of useful and interesting ideas regarding gender politics and race. I didn't always agree with what was presented but it definitely influenced me. However I started seeing people use the phrase SJW to deride someone who had a critique or criticism about something, like whether it portrayed women or minorities in a bad light, was culturally insensitive, whatever. Now, some of this made sense to me as this site started as a comedy website and the irreverent humor is part of the charm. However it seems that this is a widely held belief, that people who see any problem with the way something is presented are SJW's and therefore shouldn't be listened to. I just don't get it, can anyone let me in on where this opinion came from? I mean, isn't being a crusader for social justice a good thing? I mean, if its purely sarcastic dismissal for the sake of a laugh that would make sense, but that doesn't seem to usually be the case.

So, can someone tell me whats going on here? As I am incredibly confused.

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tbp
Mar 1, 2008

DU WIRST NIEMALS ALLEINE MARSCHIEREN


Well, for a long time there were and truly in fact still are a lot of people who found a way to make every single thread about themselves by talking about insane poo poo that nobody funny on the comedy forums gave a poo poo about, like gender and rape and stuff etc. and it was really annoying because the warriors would make really fake and gay posts with a million first person pronouns in them "my rape" "my this" "i i i i i" and it was and again still is incredibly terrible for people to read especially if they're looking for comedy or funny posts which is the original intent of this forum.

The Dipshit
Dec 21, 2005

by FactsAreUseless


There was (is) a lot of self-aggrandizement dressed up as defense of a minority group for SJW.

Blue Star
Feb 18, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


It's just "PC Brigade" but with a different name. People don't like being called out on their racism, sexism, etc., so they resort to calling people "Social Justice Warriors" whenever people confront them.

There are definitely ridiculous people on tumblr, but to be honest many of the more outrageous examples of SJWs are probably trolls. Either way, the backlash against them has resulted in a lot of stupid people thinking that bigotry is okay after all, and that the proper response to anyone who says to them "Whoa, that's kinda racist/sexist/homophobic/transphoboic/etc." is to go "LOL tumblr otherkin transfat"

Cattywampus
Oct 14, 2008



Madmarker posted:

Ok so the question is pretty much summed up in the thread title. Over my time in SA, I spent a lot of time in GBS and over time was exposed to a lot of useful and interesting ideas regarding gender politics and race. I didn't always agree with what was presented but it definitely influenced me. However I started seeing people use the phrase SJW to deride someone who had a critique or criticism about something, like whether it portrayed women or minorities in a bad light, was culturally insensitive, whatever. Now, some of this made sense to me as this site started as a comedy website and the irreverent humor is part of the charm. However it seems that this is a widely held belief, that people who see any problem with the way something is presented are SJW's and therefore shouldn't be listened to. I just don't get it, can anyone let me in on where this opinion came from? I mean, isn't being a crusader for social justice a good thing? I mean, if its purely sarcastic dismissal for the sake of a laugh that would make sense, but that doesn't seem to usually be the case.

So, can someone tell me whats going on here? As I am incredibly confused.

It stems from idiots on Tumblr making a complete mockery out of the the concepts of social justice, check your privilege, and trigger warning. There should be a thread in PYF that has plenty of examples. Warning though, it's pretty infuriating to read at times.

Cattywampus fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Mar 31, 2014

My Q-Face
Jul 8, 2002

A dumb racist who need to kill themselves


There's a great example running around the net after that #cancelcolbert thing went wild. It's people so high on their moral superiority horse that they typically assume any one who doesn't think exactly like them is wrong and is totally on the side of whatever offends them.
They like to make themselves sound smart by using nonsense compound words like HeteroNormativeColoniopatriohierarchy. They love pointing out white privilege and if you disagree with them, well... :godwin:

Basically a bunch of Morality :spergin: :smugmrgw:

Mr. Pardiggle
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

It's not the actual "injustice" that is the problem, but the multi page derail that almost always comes with it. Say you have a thread about a game/movie. Someone calls out a real injustice/flaw (which isn't a problem), but then everyone posts about it and then maybe someone has a different opinion from the group, and everyone dogpiles that guy, and then in the end no one is talking about the movie anymore because now they're onto social inequality as a global topic (which is a problem in a game/movie thread).

So it's not that people want to avoid these issues, it's just that talking about them (especially on the Internet where so much context is lost) can end really badly and ruin good threads. That's my take on it anyways.

e: I'm certain there was a thread that allowed for discussion of these topics in Games, but I think it got locked or gassed. I know it certainly had to be monitored.

Mr. Pardiggle fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Mar 31, 2014

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Its because whinging about Political Correctness gone mad makes you sound like you sound like a fifty something daily mail reader in this day and age so you say 'SJW/tumblr whiners' instead.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Its always been true that social change comes with some annoying weirdos along with it. People like to latch onto a cause and attach their own self-worth to it, so you get people that don't really understand the issues, but they know what side they're on and by god you will not silence them.

Some just need a fight in their life. They need to be always "fighting for what's right" and there seems to be little time to just relax. Seems exhausting.

Testikles
Feb 21, 2009


It's perceived as an insincere kind of defense of a pet issue. The SJW is perceived to have a shallow knowledge of the issue and little outside of an emotional investment in its outcome. It's generally felt the person is not doing it not make a good defense but for personal gratification. This is either for personal attention or to feel superior. They often have done very little to agitate about the issue offline and instead are looking for an internet pulpit, which is seen as the option of least resistance.

For example: you posted a PYF pornstars thread, I show up on page 5 and make snide remarks about everybody getting off to women who have clearly been raped or abused in their childhood. From there people react emotionally and we start a dramatic multi-page derail. What makes me a 'SJW' is that I didn't come into the thread to actually explain why pornography was wrong or why it was problematic. I posted the most inflammatory response, not to convince them, but just to upset them and let everybody know I though they were wrong. A very hyperbolic equivalence would be the Westboro Baptist Church's appearances at soldier's funerals to protest gay marriage.

Whether the label is merited or not is something else. There is nothing wrong with calling people out on their racism, sexism, etc. because that is necessary. However, people hate being lectured, especially about their lack of morals, and given the low stakes of the actual argument or situation, it feels incredibly preachy, which upsets people. The SJWs energy is thought to be put to better use elsewhere.

whiteshark12
Oct 21, 2010

How that gun even works underwater I don't know, but I bet the answer is magic.




Tumblr has acted as a sort of echo chamber and produced people who's sense of political correctness has shot far beyond what people would consider reasonable. One recent example I can think of was during the Socchi Winter Olympics; people were calling the BBC's presenter a sell-out because she had decided to go there despite being gay and Russia's known anti-gay stance. How that could be considered being traitorous to the LGBT cause is beyond me but drat if tumblr didn't get triggered over it.

Vin BioEthanol
Jan 18, 2002

by Ralp


Ask their thoughts on treatment of women and gays in Islamic countries, don't let them avoid it if you want to see their brain melt in some kind of logic-loop.

Spanish Manlove
Aug 31, 2008

HAILGAYSATAN

Madmarker posted:

Ok so the question is pretty much summed up in the thread title. Over my time in SA, I spent a lot of time in GBS and over time was exposed to a lot of useful and interesting ideas regarding gender politics and race. I didn't always agree with what was presented but it definitely influenced me. However I started seeing people use the phrase SJW to deride someone who had a critique or criticism about something, like whether it portrayed women or minorities in a bad light, was culturally insensitive, whatever. Now, some of this made sense to me as this site started as a comedy website and the irreverent humor is part of the charm. However it seems that this is a widely held belief, that people who see any problem with the way something is presented are SJW's and therefore shouldn't be listened to. I just don't get it, can anyone let me in on where this opinion came from? I mean, isn't being a crusader for social justice a good thing? I mean, if its purely sarcastic dismissal for the sake of a laugh that would make sense, but that doesn't seem to usually be the case.

So, can someone tell me whats going on here? As I am incredibly confused.

I feel that any argument of why the social justice warriors are not very well tolerated can be summed up in this post from two years ago about the state of the forums at the time and indeed a growing problem on the internet.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3477096&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post402395175

quote:

There's a lot of hosed up and weird people, on this comedy forum website, who do not ever post jokes, do not enjoy jokes or indeed even laughing, and have coined a derogatory term for people who make jokes. They're all missionaries drawn here by the allure of the fertile lands of videos of a severely asthmatic man playing Megaman games, and interesting philosophical quandries posted by the fake PTSD guy about the nature of doors and windows in Dungeons and Dragons. They are wise men here to educate a savage, uneducated, indigenous sort. It is a sonorous, musical form of education; a greasy collective amasses on the front line of the battle against social injustice, the video game subforum on a message board that has a drop down menu that makes light of the holocaust on every single page, and sings a shrill harmony that permeates the very aether, making my pets feel unsafe, when a video game muscle man calls Catwoman a bitch. They have picked their battles well, and I note from my foxhole that I am running out of ammunition, chiefly in the form of the increasingly finite number of ways I can frame this absurd situation with the English language. I clench my fists and yell "anime" towards an uncaring, absent God, and swear solemnly to press my thumbs into Chocolate America's eyeballs until he is blinded, to directly emasculate sporting figures, to beat the poo poo out of tumblr users with baseball bats, and to quietly appreciate what Waylon Smithers being gay means to me.

Ungoal
Mar 13, 2014

by XyloJW


Vin BioEthanol posted:

Ask their thoughts on treatment of women and gays in Islamic countries, don't let them avoid it if you want to see their brain melt in some kind of logic-loop.
Aside from being obnoxiously annoying little fucks that will conjure up outrage over any perceived "injustice" no matter how slight in irrelevant topics, this is the primary reason why I loathe SJWs; The blatant hypocrisy that runs through their views unchecked. It's dangerous.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



Because they write things like this and don't realize why they are funny.

Kyriarchy & Privilege 101 Tumblr posted:

Below you will find a list (in no particular order) of common trigger warnings. If discussing one of these things, it is considered common courtesy to put a simple “Trigger Warning: [Subject]” before a post.

Please note: This is a work in progress. If there are any triggers you feel are missing, please feel free to drop us an ask.
    Swearing
    Rape
    Abuse (physical, mental, emotional, verbal, sexual)
    Child abuse/pedophilia
    Self-injurious behavior (self-harm, eating disorders, etc.)
    Talk of drug use (legal, illegal or psychiatric)
    Suicide
    Descriptions/pictures of medical procedures (even if they don’t contain blood or gore)
    Descriptions/pictures of violence or warfare (including instruments of violence, such as knives or guns)
    Corpses, skulls or skeletons
    Needles
    Discussions of -isms, shaming, or hatred of any kind (racism, classism, hatred of cultures/ethnicities that differ from your own, sexism, hatred of sexualities or genders that differ from your own, anti-multiple, non-vanilla shaming, sex positive shaming, fat shaming/body image shaming, neuroatypical shaming)
    Any time slurs are used (this includes words like “stupid” or “dumb”, which are still widely considered to be socially acceptable)
    Trans* degendering, or anti-trans* views of bodies
    Dismissal of lived oppressions, marginalization, illness or differences
    Kidnapping (forceful deprivation of/disregard for personal autonomy)
    Discussions of sex (even consensual)
    Death or dying
    Spiders
    Insects
    Snakes
    Vomit
    Pregnancy/childbirth
    Blood
    Serious injury
    Trypophobia (Link is safe.)
    Scarification
    Nazi paraphernalia
    Slimy things
    Anything that might inspire intrusive thoughts in people with OCD

the
Jul 18, 2004

by Cowcaster


"You'd know about how one of my otherkin headmates raped the other because xi was a transfat, but you're a white cishet."

This is the kind of stuff Social Justice Warriors say unironically.

Khizan
Jul 30, 2013




Typically, I consider the "social justice warrior" to be somebody who jumps into completely unrelated subjects to troll over SJW issues in a way that serves no real point other than to derail the conversation.

For example, let's say we are talking about speedrunning Super Mario Bros 3.

Poster #1: "Well, at the third jump in world n.n, you can do y and it saves x frames".
Poster #2: "But if you do y, you can't do z, which will save x+1 frames later on."
SJW : "Peach is objectified, this game is sexist, and you are supporting patriarchy and rape culture!!"


They're not trying to start a discussion. They're not trying to present an argument. They're just threadshitting in a way that tries to force posters onto the defensive and results in 3-5 pages of people who now feel obliged to defend the honor of SMB3 and to let everybody know how not-sexist they are.

The hallmark of the "SJW" to me is that they are not advancing either the discussion they interrupted or the cause of the social justice issue they brought up. They're just throwing out a social justice threadbomb to disrupt things and poo poo up a thread/discussion/etc.

Twat McTwatterson
May 31, 2011


SJWs are post-college middle/late twenty-somethings whose lives didn't pan out like they were supposed to... they ended up with a worthless degree, a lot of debt, and a lack of quality jobs. They feel oppressed by this, and then in turn look for oppression in all walks of life, of gays, of blacks, of women, and turn that oppression into their oppression, deriding the system and placing the blame on things like patriarchy and rape culture... they make their failure at life seem more acceptable when they point out that everyone is oppressed because of the system, so they move the blame for their failures from themselves to another entity.

also they tend to look like this:

jyrka
Jan 21, 2005


Potato Count: 2 small potatoes


Personally, I'm offended by the phrase "social justice warrior" and therefore no one should be allowed to use it.

enbot
Jun 7, 2013


Blue Star posted:

It's just "PC Brigade" but with a different name. People don't like being called out on their racism, sexism, etc., so they resort to calling people "Social Justice Warriors" whenever people confront them.

There are definitely ridiculous people on tumblr, but to be honest many of the more outrageous examples of SJWs are probably trolls. Either way, the backlash against them has resulted in a lot of stupid people thinking that bigotry is okay after all, and that the proper response to anyone who says to them "Whoa, that's kinda racist/sexist/homophobic/transphoboic/etc." is to go "LOL tumblr otherkin transfat"


khwarezm posted:

Its because whinging about Political Correctness gone mad makes you sound like you sound like a fifty something daily mail reader in this day and age so you say 'SJW/tumblr whiners' instead.

People who think this have honestly no loving clue what they are talking about.

quote:

I mean, isn't being a crusader for social justice a good thing?


99.99% of the time this "crusade" is solely limited to making posts on the internet about how "problematic" a word is.

enbot fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Apr 1, 2014

I am OK
Mar 9, 2009

LAWL


Nice concern trolling, OP :rolleyes:

Mr. Pither
May 28, 2006

Hello, friends!

It's another example of how the internet can create these extremely insular groups of people who instinctively forge an in-group that allows them to indulge their passions but also magnifies their flaws. I don't really keep up on internet activism much but I really wonder how your average tumblr user would fare if you sat them down with some middle-aged salt-of-the-earth person and made them engage in a dialog about whatever cause they were advocating.

I remember people like Tape Speed who tried very hard to talk the talk and walk the walk, but upon further investigation held pretty repugnant beliefs. He and a lot of other people like him try their best to learn all of the incantations and apocrypha that these groups have invented, but in the end it doesn't seem like it changes the world much besides getting a few people on the internet extremely wound up. They don't appear like they're arguing in good faith, I guess.

I can see how college-aged kids can get really wrapped up in this stuff, as it fits in with that kind of atmosphere, but once you're out in the wider world it starts looking further and further removed from reality.

Justin Godscock
Oct 12, 2004

Listen here, funnyman!

Soiled Meat

Imagine that one hyper-liberal friend (or often co-worker) you have that is huffy, angry-sarcastic and agitated all the time and storms off when you say someting "wrong" but never says what it was or what it made them feel.

SJW posts online are exactly what they are thinking but don't have the self-confidence to say in public.

I think the thing that annoys a lot of people about SJWs is that it's very difficult to have a discussion with them because they aren't interested in that. They just want to express their high-horse of emotion and "wow, are you really like that?". The #CancelColbert thing is perfect as a recent example. We all know the story of Colbert doing a satirical bit by acting mock-racist in order to debase the Redskins owner who thinks doing charity makes up for his team's name.

Well, then his Twitter account (which he and his staff have no direct control over) sent a tweet out with no context about his mock-racism. NO SJW wanted to listen to the counter-argument that the tweet probably wasn't the best way to express his satire (Colbert is all about verbal articulation to make his point, he's good at it). They just wanted to complain about racism present in society or whatever the gently caress without hearing the other side.

Justin Godscock fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Apr 1, 2014

betaraywil
Dec 30, 2006

Gather the wind
Though the wind won't help you fly at all



If all of your "posts" are indistinguishable from "think pieces" you might be a Social Justice Warrior.

step aside
Sep 21, 2011


Personally, a pretty funny moment was a man who angrily PMed me to stop my bigot posting, to which I asked what he was referring to, to which he said "this isn't a discussion. You need to stop."

Then I found out that he has pages of posts in the anime forum about a pedo anime.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

enbot posted:

People who think this have honestly no loving clue what they are talking about.


Okay, I'm sure the term never gets used as an out of hand dismissal in the exact same way that Politically Correct often gets used.

step aside
Sep 21, 2011


Also, imagine if the suffragettes, instead of hunger striking and standing their ground through rain and snow and police arrests, had created a hashtag and called anybody who tried to encourage them to go outside racist, classist, and ableist.

betaraywil
Dec 30, 2006

Gather the wind
Though the wind won't help you fly at all



step aside posted:

Also, imagine if the suffragettes, instead of hunger striking and standing their ground through rain and snow and police arrests, had created a hashtag and called anybody who tried to encourage them to go outside racist, classist, and ableist.

Oh yeah, that's it.

You have a problem when you say "Still waiting for a response. Want to know how many hours my last hashtag trended?"

the
Jul 18, 2004

by Cowcaster


SJWs are the kind of people who just emptyquote something that mirrors their beliefs with:

#THIS #loving THIS #SIGNAL BOOST #gently caress YOU FOREVER #ALL WHITE PEOPLE SHOULD DIE

step aside
Sep 21, 2011



Haha

Hulk Stewy Park
@suey_park

Still trending and waiting @StephenAtHome and @ColbertReport. Want to know how many hours #NotYourAsianSidekick trended? #CancelColbert
7:03 PM - 27 Mar 2014

Smashurbanipal
Sep 12, 2009
ASK ME ABOUT BEING A SHITTY POSTER


I've seen some low effort trolling in my day, but this, this takes the cake.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


To me an online social justice warrior is someone who's more concerned with making sure everyone uses the right vocab than actually addressing the foundations of the injustice they're fighting.

I'll put it this way: You'd never call out a public interest attorney working for the Southern Poverty Law Center as a Social Justice Warrior because they're actually doing poo poo. Gokusaiyan19 on Tumbler on the other hand isn't really interested in fighting the good fight just making sure they can parrot the same poo poo that every other activist on the site has deemed important that month.

no_shit_columbo
Jul 26, 2013



Jenn here.

:suicide:

Tags: fat transfat fat vegan vegan weight gain transphobia fat shaming body shaming past life memories past life tortoise tortoisekin transethnic

commentary: We really need another tumblr/sjw/shitlord thread. Why did the last one get canned?

covok48
Apr 3, 2009


I am OK posted:

Nice concern trolling, OP :rolleyes:

Seriously.

OP are you here to have your question answered honestly?

Or is this a passive-aggressive complaint in hopes of garnering self centered affirmation because you got laughed out of new GBS?


Add the making GBS threads up of subforums to the list of complaints about SJWs.

Spanish Manlove
Aug 31, 2008

HAILGAYSATAN

The term social justice warrior isn't just for the modern day ultra-PC people who visibly cringe whenever someone says gypsy instead of roma, but is for the type of people who when told they should volunteer their time to physically help their pet cause would instead flippantly react the comments on tumblr as "trolling" and then stay inside all day and post on their 5 different twitter accounts to complain about their pet cause because they post so much that they hit the daily cap on four of those accounts.

This is in no way hyperbole.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007



Thanks for the responses, I have a bit of an idea of what is going on here now, and the two main sides of the discussion. I don't use tumblr so the fact that a lot of the disdain for this "group" doesn't come as a surprise for me. With the current usage and reasoning in mind, I can see why it is used, but I do think it is an overused phrase, insult. As I have seen a few people with legitimate complaints/concerns/questions get laughed out as SJW's. The most recent one I can think of was a derail started in the South Park thread in games where some poster had wished you could play as a girl. The thread tore him to pieces. I also remember some of the threads in old gbs with eighty trigger warnings and people condescendingly correcting each other about what is the appropriate term for someone who sleeps with men who present as women while wearing fursuits. So I know there is a group that is taking itself way to seriously. But now I know where the disdain and usage comes from, so thanks for answering my questions here.

Madmarker fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Apr 1, 2014

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




It's used as an insult because it's an insult to group someone in with the idiots who are so terrible that people who actually do professional social work despise them for making enemies of literally everyone they interact with and hurting every cause they claim to support.

Next question.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


betaraywil
Dec 30, 2006

Gather the wind
Though the wind won't help you fly at all



Well there sure is a lot going on there.

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buckets of buckets
Apr 8, 2012


Changin' the world, one petition at a time

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