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Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


There's also a sizable debate even among Hispanics about what constitutes Hispanic. My girlfriend is Mexican but you wouldn't know until the end of the summer when she becomes unbelievably tan.

I bring this up because her Grandmother is very proud of being Spanish Mexican and is incredibly racist against darker skinned Mexicans.

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Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao




Latin racial politics are just as insane as Americans', just more nuanced because Spain was really OCD when it came to categorizing people so they knew how far down the social ladder they were.

edit: If youd like to do a quick experiment and live around the border just turn on any of the major Mexican broadcast stations and try to count how many people are not white with blonde hair.

Berke Negri fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Apr 18, 2014

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:


computer parts posted:

As a general rule, yes (assuming we're counting Mestizos/half-Native American Hispanics as white).

e: Though I know that near the US border there are less indigenous-descended people, it's still a sizable part.
Other, and 2 or more races, are a separate group from white Hispanics when the US census counts them. In some cases they're apparently added to the white Hispanics group, which pushes it to 90%. I think the white Hispanic group is legitimately people who (think of themselves) as simply white, though I admit that is not the same as them necessarily being perceived as white among non-Hispanic whites. I just think they might increasingly be in the future.

Berke Negri posted:

Latin racial politics are just as insane as Americans', just more nuanced because Spain was really OCD when it came to categorizing people so they knew how far down the social ladder they were.
Latin racial politics were basically SJW logic by way of racist mathematicians.

Berke Negri posted:

edit: If youd like to do a quick experiment and live around the border just turn on any of the major Mexican broadcast stations and try to count how many people are not white with blonde hair.
It's the same in southern Europe. Everyone on the streets has black/brown hair, but every woman on the news is a pale-ish blonde.

A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Apr 18, 2014

Powerlurker
Oct 21, 2010


Dusseldorf posted:

There's actually a significant population in Mexico and Brazil of Lebanese decent.

There's also a pretty significant population of white Hispanics in Spain. I believe they are called "Spaniards".

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005
One of those Mexican ladies was built like a full plate of mashed potatoes


Powerlurker posted:

There's also a pretty significant population of white Hispanics in Spain. I believe they are called "Spaniards".

First of all the Spanish aren't Hispanic by US census definition (or probably popular racial distinction). Secondly I was addressing that there is a (semi-)significant group of white hispanics who are not of European origin.

Powerlurker
Oct 21, 2010


Dusseldorf posted:

First of all the Spanish aren't Hispanic by US census definition (or probably popular racial distinction). Secondly I was addressing that there is a (semi-)significant group of white hispanics who are not of European origin.

The OMB and Census 2010 definition of Hispanic is, "a person of Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, South or Central American, or other Spanish culture or origin, regardless of race". Spain would count as a "Spanish" culture.

http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-04.pdf Note that one of the specific examples given as a response for the question is "Spaniard".

lizardman
Jun 30, 2007

by R. Guyovich


I kind of get the feeling George Zimmerman was American culture's first visible little baby step in integrating white hispanics as simply white. I sometimes also wonder how differently, if at all, that whole situation would have played out in the public eye if he had a Spanish surname.

Long Francesco
Jun 3, 2005


SJWs are terrible because they completely and knowingly refuse to acknowledge context. Like that guy a while back who would search the forums for words that he found ~problematic~ and berate whoever dared to use them. To this guy people saying tranny in a car thread in AI was heinously offensive and they had to stop. Right now. They were wrong and he was right and he had to be there to educate these horrible ignorant people.

There's no reasoning with them. They act like children who live in their own little daydream world with their ridiculous made up words, believing they can change the world by annoying everybody one post at a time.

Rent-A-Cop
Oct 15, 2004

I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!



Long Francesco posted:

There's no reasoning with them. They act like children who live in their own little daydream world with their ridiculous made up words, believing they can change the world by annoying everybody one post at a time.

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!


A Buttery Pastry posted:

53% of Latin Americans are white according to the U.S. Census Bureau, and it's not like there aren't a bunch of already rather dark-skinned white Americans already.
That's probably because the 2010 census split race and Hispanic origin into 2 separate questions, asked respondents to answer both of them, and the race question didn't include a checkbox for people of Latin American origin.

http://www.census.gov/schools/pdf/2010form_info.pdf

OneEightHundred fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Apr 21, 2014

Powerlurker
Oct 21, 2010


OneEightHundred posted:

That's probably because the 2010 census split race and Hispanic origin into 2 separate questions, asked respondents to answer both of them, and the race question didn't include a checkbox for people of Latin American origin.

http://www.census.gov/schools/pdf/2010form_info.pdf

It didn't because the US Government doesn't consider Hispanic a "race". Hispanics can be of any race; they can be black, white, native-American, even Asian.

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006
I am an autistic asshole that is incapable of understanding anything that isn't face value. Please consider my disability when reading my posts.

Powerlurker posted:

It didn't because the US Government doesn't consider Hispanic a "race". Hispanics can be of any race; they can be black, white, native-American, even Asian.

It does make one wonder why they care more about Hispanic origin than, say, French, German, Portuguese or Dutch origin. If you come from Haiti, you're just a black guy that speaks French. If you were from across the border in DR, the same black guy would suddenly also be Hispanic, despite the fact neither of them speak English and might therefore face similar discrimination. If you're from Brazil or Dutch Guyana, you could be classified as Hispanic as a result of being from South America, but there'd still be massive cultural and linguistic differences between you and most other Hispanic people. You could be a suspiciously German fellow from Argentina, and, yep, if you moved to the States you'd become "Hispanic."

It seems like an extra category, beyond race and language, that serves no real purpose other than the racist tendencies of people who aren't Hispanic.

Herstory Begins Now
Aug 5, 2003



Long Francesco posted:

SJWs are terrible because they completely and knowingly refuse to acknowledge context. Like that guy a while back who would search the forums for words that he found ~problematic~ and berate whoever dared to use them. To this guy people saying tranny in a car thread in AI was heinously offensive and they had to stop. Right now. They were wrong and he was right and he had to be there to educate these horrible ignorant people.


That's pretty drat funny, even if it is completely tone deaf.

Tartarus Sauce
Jan 16, 2006


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

OMG BYZANTIUM posted:

Ask SJWs about the following topics to figure out how hypocritical they are:

Salafists/hard core Islamists
Jews
Japanese war crimes
Condoleeza Rice

Basically, your typical American SJW has no conception of oppression other than "white man oppresses minorities who have dark skin." Oppression based on religion or class is pretty much a total non-issue for them and they just ignore it.

See also: Michelle Malkin, Alan Keyes, and Clarence Thomas.

(More traditional Leftists actually have an answer for some of these challenges, which is largely derived from Foucault.)

I think class is a HUGELY influential variable on a number of levels, but it receives almost zero meaningful airplay anywhere.

FullLeatherJacket posted:

This also leads, though, to the hilariously narcissistic version, where whoever's making the argument effectively declares themselves Subject Zero, and that anybody who wants different things to them must be fundamentally broken.

Absolutely, and it's actually the type of situation where some part of me would actually like to say "check your privilege"--a phrase which normally makes my jaw clench, mind you--because it's one case where that shoe actually fits.

"I've never experienced this, therefore it doesn't exist and/or isn't a real problem" is a response I run into especially when talking about LGBT issues, but I've also encountered it in other situations, too.

In a similar vein, my list of grievances and beefs with the SJWs could probably reach to the moon and back at this point, but as someone who does care about some of these issues, it bothers me that a) SJWs spend more time fighting with current and potential allies than with the people and organizations who actually contribute (often quite cheerfully) inequality and injustice in the world, and b)Tumblr antics in general have provided actual bigots with additional excuses and rationalizations for being bigoted.

Case in point:

Me: ::::explains important key things about the "trans experience" to dude quipping about Chelsea Manning::::

Guy: Haw haw haw, there are people on the Internet who think they're wolves, dragons, and anime characters. Ergo, LOL TRANNIES!

Me: ::::explains my understanding of the critical psychological, social, biological, and neurological factors which meaningfully differentiate transfolk from otherkin and therians:::

Guy: You're a liberal hypocrite who's just picking and choosing who's crazy or not, because liberals. Ipso facto, LOL CHICKS WITH DICKS!

I realize that people like this are going to always move the goal posts and find excuses for being assholes, but drat if this type of conversation doesn't make me want to strangle a ficto-kin in the moment.

In other news, a lot of these other SJW bloggers just seem like people whose e-popularity has gone to their head--or, maybe they were narcissistic, grandstanding blowhards before, who knows?

I think the tactics of the SJWs do go to show you that when people discover a reliable tactic for silencing their opposition and/or getting to be the center of attention--even if they stumbled upon it by accident initially--they'll typically take that ball and run with it into the endzone and beyond.

I will say that the one good thing about SJWs is that they've provided a nice, clear line in the sand, so to speak--kind of like how Fred Phelps created a line that even most dyed-in-the-wool homophobes agree shouldn't be crossed. I had friends who were previously starting to drift in an SJW-esque direction, and they've noticeably dialed back on a number of negative tendencies that have since become associated with SJWs. So, uh, yay for SJWs being assholes, I guess.

Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Apr 21, 2014

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004


I honestly don't see why a person shouldn't be allowed to get species reassignment surgery if gender reassignment surgery is a thing.

The entire premise is built on the idea that somehow this person's expectation of what they "should" be differs from the reality of what they are, and this causes them distress so to try to mitigate that distress they take surgical and hormonal action.

Why not allow someone to try to become a cat or whatever? Who is anyone else to deny them, if we are going to accept the premise that the reduction of mismatch of reality vs expectation by altering reality(rather than expectation) is acceptable?

So that's what I don't get, why are SJWs so often biased against otherkin? I guess I'm just more open minded since I have no problem with it :smug:

enbot
Jun 7, 2013


PT6A posted:

It does make one wonder why they care more about Hispanic origin than, say, French, German, Portuguese or Dutch origin.

Because there are a significant number of people who identify this way vs. those other groups. That makes it interesting and worth tracking. Also you are incorrect to think that they don't look at different origins. However, those other groups % of the total population is too small to care about in most instances. There's really no point in caring about the "german vote" for an election but there is a big reason to care about the "hispanic vote".

Tartarus Sauce
Jan 16, 2006


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

ashgromnies posted:

I honestly don't see why a person shouldn't be allowed to get species reassignment surgery if gender reassignment surgery is a thing.

Oh, I agree. I'm extremely keen to someday live in a world where people have the means to customize or alter themselves as they see fit, and don't receive blowback for it.

Tattoos, piercings, implants, genetic engineering, microchips, gender reassignment and/or exploration, prosthetics--it's all fine by me.

But, my point there was that a number of transfolk feel the way they feel for reasons that can seemingly be traced directly back to biology and/or neurochemistry; they aren't just "confused gay people," they aren't trying to be "special snowflakes;" they certainly aren't just trawling for attention; they aren't Buffalo Bill; they aren't delusional; they aren't psychotic; and they definitely aren't ultra-evil gay people who are out to trick unsuspecting "normals" into sleeping with them for malicious shits and giggles. (Well, and note that I'm talking in terms of broad generalities and the big picture here. I'm sure there are people in the world who fit one or more of these descriptions, but they're not the norm.)

The painful clash between how you appear on the outside and what your brain tells you you are can be so acute and intense that people actually kill themselves when they can't bridge that gap.

To put it as simply as I can, there are no people walking around who because of some natural genetic anomaly or a hormonal shift "almost" became cats, wolves, or dragons in the womb. Doesn't happen.

This does, however, appear to happen in various cases of folks who later identify as trans, genderqueer, or the like, and they experience very real and very legitimate struggles in their lives because of it.

The issue with otherkin and their ilk isn't that they'd like to be wolves or dragons, it's that they're insisting that they actually are wolves or dragons, and expect to be treated as such.

(Therians are a somewhat-different kettle of were-fish, so I'm mostly focusing on otherkin for simplicity's sake here.)

Some factions of SJWs then enable these types by then scolding or shaming any meanie who disagrees with Jim that he's really a chocobo, or who fails to refer to Jim using his preferred choco-nouns. So, that's the SJW connection here.

Long story short, my beef is that it just gives bigots an even bigger opening to declare that ALL of these people are "crazy," and all just need to shut up and assimilate. I think it serves to trivialize what some people actually experience and have to grapple with.

Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 21, 2014

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004


Interesting. So you seem to be arguing for biological transsexualism rather than transgenderism.

From my understanding, sex is biological but gender is a social construct: so no surgery or hormonal replacement is theoretically necessary to be transgender.

Why then are the two terms so conflated? Why do most people getting SRS(*sexual* reassignment surgery) call themselves transgender as opposed to transsexual?

Thanks for answering my questions, I ask out of genuine curiosity and am afraid to ask such questions in the E/N trans thread.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


ashgromnies posted:

Interesting. So you seem to be arguing for biological transsexualism rather than transgenderism.

From my understanding, sex is biological but gender is a social construct: so no surgery or hormonal replacement is theoretically necessary to be transgender.

Why then are the two terms so conflated? Why do most people getting SRS(*sexual* reassignment surgery) call themselves transgender as opposed to transsexual?

Thanks for answering my questions, I ask out of genuine curiosity and am afraid to ask such questions in the E/N trans thread.

The short answer is that many trans people these days prefer to avoid the word "transsexual" because it's picked up a lot of negative connotations beyond its literal meaning. Nowadays it's probably more common to just use "trans" as an umbrella term to cover either or both anyway.

(Also, just as an interesting piece of trivia, the official term used for SRS here in Australia is "gender affirmation surgery", which has always sounded kinda funny to me but whatever.)

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao




enbot posted:

Because there are a significant number of people who identify this way vs. those other groups. That makes it interesting and worth tracking. Also you are incorrect to think that they don't look at different origins. However, those other groups % of the total population is too small to care about in most instances. There's really no point in caring about the "german vote" for an election but there is a big reason to care about the "hispanic vote".

"The Hispanic Vote" is really just "The Mexican Vote". Cubans and Puerto Ricans are distantly after that but those are more very narrow regional groups I guess.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


Berke Negri posted:

"The Hispanic Vote" is really just "The Mexican Vote". Cubans and Puerto Ricans are distantly after that but those are more very narrow regional groups I guess.

That's because the Cuban and Puerto Rican experience has as much in common with central American immigrants as German immigrants do.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Puerto Ricans are really a separate category than immigrants from any other country, considering that Puerto Rico is part of the US and all Puerto Ricans have had full citizenship for almost a century now.

Tartarus Sauce
Jan 16, 2006


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

Thuryl posted:

The short answer is that many trans people these days prefer to avoid the word "transsexual" because it's picked up a lot of negative connotations beyond its literal meaning. Nowadays it's probably more common to just use "trans" as an umbrella term to cover either or both anyway.

Bingo bingo!

ashgrommies posted:

From my understanding, sex is biological but gender is a social construct: so no surgery or hormonal replacement is theoretically necessary to be transgender.

Based on my conversations with people across the gender spectrum and the research I've come across, I'd suggest that most people do appear to have an inherent or inborn sense of themselves as basically male or basically female, and from there, society and your family largely tell you what it means to be male or female, and how you should best go about expressing this identity, and then you process all of that data and all those messages through your own personal filters.

But, gender is just one of the many Nature/Nurture questions we haven't quite gotten to the bottom of yet.

Whether surgery or hormone replacement is "necessary" or not depends on the individual transperson. Some folks have decided that some form of one or the other (or both!) will help them to feel whole and complete, while others just need to be able to present as their identified gender, and have people interact with them accordingly.

The reasons why a person might be and/or might identify as trans, genderqueer, genderfluid, or the like are also legion, because of all the possible biological and social and psychological factors that are consistently in play.

So, each individual is unique. My agenda in conversations like those is just to send the message that LGBT people aren't just "trollin' n lol-in'," and that their feelings are generally not just a simple matter of "choice," as if your gender or sexual orientation were like a t-shirt or a breakfast cereal. My core objective is simply to humanize LGBTs as best I can.

re: The Hispanic Vote, I know less about Puerto Ricans, but I can tell you that Mexican-Americans and Cuban-Americans tend to vote quite differently. The Mexican folks I know are mostly Democrats, while I'm familiar with many Cubans being Republican as, I suppose, a way of being solidly and un-ambiguously anti-Commie.

Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Apr 22, 2014

OneEightHundred
Feb 28, 2008

Soon, we will be unstoppable!


Berke Negri posted:

Cubans and Puerto Ricans are distantly after that but those are more very narrow regional groups I guess.
This would be true (in the sense of them not weighing very much as voter pools to be concerned about) if the Cuban population wasn't heavily concentrated in one of the most hotly-contested presidential election swing states.

See also: Coal.

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004


Tartarus Sauce posted:

The reasons why a person might be and/or might identify as trans, genderqueer, genderfluid, or the like are also legion, because of all the possible biological and social and psychological factors that are consistently in play.

Could you go more into that? Because women with beards(isn't that what "genderqueer" type stuff is about?) feel like they're just playing a joke via their appearance. Like, haha, a beard, on a lady. Weird.

Tartarus Sauce
Jan 16, 2006


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

People who identify as genderqueer might consider themselves neither male nor female, both male and female, transgender, "third-sexed," or either male or female on a given day, or in a given context. Same with gender fluid.

How someone expresses that identity or non-identity from there will depend on them, of course.

Just based on some of my experiences, I tend to be skeptical of people whose gender identity seems to shift with the tides, because the people I've known who've changed their gender identity every Tuesday have tended to suffer from low self-esteem and identity confusion or ambivalence in general, and/or be major attention whores.

As someone who's fairly gender-apathetic overall, I'd personally like to someday live in a society where sexual orientation and gender expression and identity can become more-or-less a non-issue, so that people might define themselves more by their values, interests, personality traits, and acts. But, that may be a long time coming, because our society still has a lot of hang-ups, neuroses, and fixations around sex, gender expression, and the like.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Tartarus Sauce posted:

As someone who's fairly gender-apathetic overall, I'd personally like to someday live in a society where sexual orientation and gender expression and identity can become more-or-less a non-issue, so that people might define themselves more by their values, interests, personality traits, and acts.

Even if sexual orientation and gender identity become a non-issue there's still plenty of race, class, and nationality to hate each other with before we're left with just values and interests and other things we actually have control over.

Tartarus Sauce
Jan 16, 2006


friendship is magic
in a pony paradise
don't you judge me

Earwicker posted:

Even if sexual orientation and gender identity become a non-issue there's still plenty of race, class, and nationality to hate each other with before we're left with just values and interests and other things we actually have control over.

Too true, unfortunately.

I just focused on gender and sex here because that was the topic on the table, and because bringing everything else in just felt like trying to eat an elephant in one bite. But, this exact thought was hovering in the back of my mind.

Race, class, religion, nationality, immigration status, language--the list goes on and on and on, and when humans get over one hang-up, they tend to just drill down and find something smaller or more subtle to nitpick and fight over. (Makes me think of how geeks in various fandoms have taken to grilling "nerdy-come-latelies" to make sure newbies are "real fans"--instead of, you know, just being happy that more people like the same thing they do.)

So, when people give you "noise" around your race, ethnicity, class, sexual orientation, gender, or what have you, and you notice that you're treated differently from others because of it, it will naturally tend to become a major, central, salient factor in your life and identity, even if it "shouldn't" be in an ideal world.

Tartarus Sauce fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Apr 22, 2014

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

So weaboos are calling Avril Lavigne's latest pop single/video racist for appropriating Japanese culture. What's being left out is that (I didn't know this) the singer is arguably one of the most popular Western artists in Japan, and the song was only released in Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZsf4F7Oe7A

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


Omi-Polari posted:

So weaboos are calling Avril Lavigne's latest pop single/video racist for appropriating Japanese culture. What's being left out is that (I didn't know this) the singer is arguably one of the most popular Western artists in Japan, and the song was only released in Japan:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZsf4F7Oe7A

Also "appropriating culture" is almost always a bullshit claim anyway.

To a SJW a white guy who likes tacos is appropriating Mexican culture.

Terminal Entropy
Dec 26, 2012



Pook Good Mook posted:

Also "appropriating culture" is almost always a bullshit claim anyway.

To a SJW a white guy who likes tacos is appropriating Mexican culture.

Gets fun when someone raises a stink about white kids having piņatas at birthday parties.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard
Apr 5, 2012
My incredible shitposting will not transform the xbone into a good console


Lipstick Apathy

Yeah, white folks just can't win, huh?

It's human to eventually become resentful when it feels like you're near-constantly under attack for stuff you're not really responsible for. Two wrongs never make a right, ever, so why act like it's okay? Because white people.

When you express your feelings people tell you why you're wrong for having feelings and that you belong to the evil white monolith and that you're probably a white supremacist for not groveling.

Won't someone besides Stormfront think of the white people? Most white people aren't what others think they are and...

Oh.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

Yeah, white folks just can't win, huh?

It's human to eventually become resentful when it feels like you're near-constantly under attack for stuff you're not really responsible for. Two wrongs never make a right, ever, so why act like it's okay? Because white people.

When you express your feelings people tell you why you're wrong for having feelings and that you belong to the evil white monolith and that you're probably a white supremacist for not groveling.

Won't someone besides Stormfront think of the white people? Most white people aren't what others think they are and...

Oh.

Well as a white person with French Canadian ancestry I can't stand when Americans play hockey or eat maple syrup.

Also it's insulting when Chinese people eat noodles. I know that they're used to noodles but they resemble spaghetti and it's insensitive for them to eat something that so many people of Italian ancestry recognize.

I also hate when Christians celebrate Christmas by appropriating Russian festivals and holding it on existing holidays celebrating the winter solstice.

And white people can't put up Tibetan prayer flags anywhere ever because they aren't from Nepal. Even if they spent 2 years studying abroad there with a local family and speak the language and follow all local customs.

See how problematic "cultural appropriation" is? We're not talking about being upset we can't wear black face and do minstrel shows or that someone can't dress up as a Nazi SS officer for Halloween.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao




Cultural Appropriation is a Very Real Thing but the problem with SJWers is the nuance that fashion and taste are ephemeral things influenced by multiple factors. It is one thing for a white hipster girl to "play" in fake native headdress but another for clothing that incorporates Native motifs into the design. This can be lost on a lot of people who pull the appropriation card reflexively.

Oh but gently caress anyone who talks about appropriation re: whites celebrating dia de los muertos.

Earwicker
Jan 6, 2003



Terminal Entropy posted:

Gets fun when someone raises a stink about white kids having piņatas at birthday parties.

Does this actually happen? I grew up in an area that was pretty mixed between whites, Asians, and Hispanics and when I was a kid literally every single kid had a piņata at their birthday party regardless of race, no one cared or really even seemed to consider piņatas a particularly Hispanic thing... it was just a thing you did at any birthday party just as much as having a cake

Bip Roberts
Mar 29, 2005
One of those Mexican ladies was built like a full plate of mashed potatoes


Earwicker posted:

Does this actually happen? I grew up in an area that was pretty mixed between whites, Asians, and Hispanics and when I was a kid literally every single kid had a piņata at their birthday party regardless of race, no one cared or really even seemed to consider piņatas a particularly Hispanic thing... it was just a thing you did at any birthday party just as much as having a cake

I mean someone has raised a stink about everything, which is what this thread is about. It's also about people who aren't able to filter that out and want their own counter-stink.

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

Berke Negri posted:

Cultural Appropriation is a Very Real Thing but the problem with SJWers is the nuance that fashion and taste are ephemeral things influenced by multiple factors. It is one thing for a white hipster girl to "play" in fake native headdress but another for clothing that incorporates Native motifs into the design. This can be lost on a lot of people who pull the appropriation card reflexively.

Oh but gently caress anyone who talks about appropriation re: whites celebrating dia de los muertos.
Yeah I've seen cultural appropriation done badly, like the fake native headdress. That's simply poor taste. But cultural appropriation is also inevitable when different cultures communicate. As you say, there's a lot of nuance involved.

Like with the Avril single, the claim it's racist evaporates when people realize the artist is popular in Japan and the single is intended for the Japanese market. Here, Japanese culture isn't even being repackaged for a Western audience! (And this also ignores that Japan also spends a lot of money exporting its culture around the world.)

BrutalistMcDonalds
Oct 4, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

A theory just occurring to me is that part of this is a reflection of how globalization has upended a lot of our assumptions. East Asian k & j pop is a massive and globally influential cultural force. The idea that Avril is a threat to that is hard to swallow. It reminds me of geeks who complain their culture is being disenfranchised at the same time geek culture has never been more dominant. There are geeks that complain their culture is being appropriated by the mainstream, despite the fact that the boundaries between geek culture and the mainstream no longer exist. (Maybe this is where Bronies came from? As a reaction maybe?)

I'd make a comparison between SJWers to a similar phenomenon on the political right that's become increasingly wary of immigration and foreign culture. In Europe there's been a big rise in populist parties that fear Muslim immigration, which is perceived as a threat to European culture. But these are hardly rational fears, considering the most powerful political blocs in those countries do not reflect the interests of those immigrants at all.

In the U.S. there's the Tea Party, which fuels itself on grievance and claiming that it's oppressed. But really, the Tea Party is much more interested in demanding other people recognize them as oppressed, rather than actually freeing itself from their oppression. What they consider oppression is that there's a liberal media which doesn't recognize them. Which is a fantasy. And it's extremely doubtful that if the Tea Party got what it wanted - if the liberal media (which doesn't actually exist) went away - that they would stop acting like they were oppressed.

At the same time, SJWers points to the existence of groups like the Tea Party as evidence that SJWers are oppressed, rather than recognizing that Tea Party types represent the dying gasps of some seriously unpopular politics. The SJWers can at least point to past grievances. But they still define themselves by their oppression to an unhealthy degree.

Last Buffalo
Nov 7, 2011


My first intro to SJWs gone amuck was when Miley Cyrus' Twerkgate happened and some girl wrote some HufPo piece about how she was robbing black culture and it was just like all the times where white men try to sexually attack black women in clubs because

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Terminal Entropy
Dec 26, 2012



Earwicker posted:

Does this actually happen? I grew up in an area that was pretty mixed between whites, Asians, and Hispanics and when I was a kid literally every single kid had a piņata at their birthday party regardless of race, no one cared or really even seemed to consider piņatas a particularly Hispanic thing... it was just a thing you did at any birthday party just as much as having a cake

From some SJWs on tumblr it has, but everything under the sun is said to be appropriated or privileged in some form, so it isn't a unique case.

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