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uh
This poll is closed.
embiid 41 32.28%
wiggins 86 67.72%
Total: 127 votes
[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

 
  • Locked thread
Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
Gordon was apparently a big hit in the Lakers workout today, apparently him and McDermott really went at each other.

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kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

xbilkis posted:

I think Marcus Smart is probably the closest to that so far this year.


I would never call a dude who is that much of a...just a warrior a potential bust. His shot is not great but if people haven't watched him play it's difficult to describe just how hard he gets after it. I know MV is down on him but I'd be really shocked if someone like him busted. He's a beast and at worst brings incredible energy off the bench.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?
Usually if the best thing you can say about a guy is intangible bullshit like "he's just a warrior!" he's probably pretty lovely. He can't shoot, he's not really a point guard, and for a guy who is allegedly this great leader he makes horrible basketball decisions.

Kibner
Oct 21, 2008

#1 Pelican Fan
Why do I get the feeling he'll basically be Rodney Stuckey?

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

He'll suck. He's not a great shooter, and sure, he can bulldoze into the lane and get his own shots, so that makes him... a slightly better Sherron Collins. For a guard in the NBA, that's not great.

Also, not to make a huge deal of the flopping thing, but generally, if you're getting caught flopping in the NCAA, it's not just a sign you're a flopper, it's a sign you're a bad defender because you sure as hell are going to get called for the blocking foul or what have you in the NBA if you're being that blatant on the collegiate level. Everyone flops, but Smart's problem is that he's not very good at selling it sufficiently.

Bruce Ivins
Aug 7, 2008

Probably Magic posted:

He'll suck. He's not a great shooter, and sure, he can bulldoze into the lane and get his own shots, so that makes him... a slightly better Sherron Collins. For a guard in the NBA, that's not great.

Also, not to make a huge deal of the flopping thing, but generally, if you're getting caught flopping in the NCAA, it's not just a sign you're a flopper, it's a sign you're a bad defender because you sure as hell are going to get called for the blocking foul or what have you in the NBA if you're being that blatant on the collegiate level. Everyone flops, but Smart's problem is that he's not very good at selling it sufficiently.

counterpoint: that time he pushed a fan. It shows uh... that he's a warrior

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

Sherron Collins is 5'10 and a half tops with a huge giant Taco Bell problem. Smart is 6'4 or just under. That's really not a good comparison. You really think he'll suck? C'mon. When I say warrior I'm not using that hyperbole lightly like a superfan or something. He gets after it and that is a real thing not an imaginary homer thing to say, especially considering I hate his loving guts.

quote:

Smart makes a living inside the paint, as he relishes contact and gets to the free throw line nearly ten times per-40 minutes, while finishing 57% of his shots around the basket in the half-court. The role he will play in the NBA appears to be well defined, as he's very good in transition and on the pick and roll, and is more than capable of creating shots for himself and others, something he appears to have improved on in his sophomore year. Smart's assist to turnover and pure point ratio both increased notably this past season, particularly his ability to avoid coughing the ball up, as his turnover percentage decreased from an alarming 19% as a freshman to a much more manageable 14%.

Another area Smart is likely to excel in very early in the NBA is on the defensive end. With his size, strength and length, Smart is capable of guarding multiple positions, which gives his coach nice versatility to take advantage of in different schemes. He even proved strong enough to put a body on big men in certain stretches, showing the type of toughness and competitiveness NBA executives love. On top of that, he brings terrific anticipation skills for blocks, steals and rebounds, hauling in seven boards per-40 minutes and over three steals thanks to the intensity level and timing he displays.

On the downside, Smart still sports a very inconsistent jump-shot, something that didn't really improve from his freshman to sophomore seasons. His shooting mechanics leave a lot to be desired, as he dips the ball violently, and fades forward and sometimes sideways on his release. That wouldn't be that big of an issue if Smart didn't take as many jumpers as he does—nearly half of his field goal attempts came from beyond the arc, and he hit just 30% of them, many being contested ones early in the shot clock.

Smart is not a non-shooter by any stretch, but his poor decision making hampers his percentages significantly. He will have some very ugly low-efficiency nights in the NBA against better-organized defenses until he learns how to reel himself in and plays within his limitations.

Other issues, such as his reputation for flopping, and the very short fuse he showed pushing a fan in the stands at Texas Tech, are ones NBA teams will likely want to explore further during the draft process. This reportedly wasn't the first time he put hands on someone according to what we've been told by reliable sources. Additionally, while many are quick to laud his intangibles as a winner, it's important to note that he did not win a NCAA Tournament game in his two years at Oklahoma State.

With that said, it's difficult not to admire the Joakim Noah style competitiveness Smart brings to the table, which can be very valuable in a long 82 game regular season, particularly for organizations trying to improve their “team culture.”

Matchups against the likes of Kansas, Iowa State, Baylor, Gonzaga, Oklahoma, Texas and Memphis have given us ample opportunity to evaluate Smart's very defined strengths and weaknesses as a prospect

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?
He's not going to be able to bully people the same way at the next level, and guys are going to sag way off him and dare him to shoot. He'll do it too, because his shot selection is awful.

And for an ultracompetitive warrior who refuses to lose his team sure imploded as soon as they hit conference play this year. They went from being projected to possibly win the Big XII to barely making the tournament and getting bounced in the first round.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 5, 2014

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

Isn't he basically a Tyreke Evans with a bit more attitude? Why is anyone using any other comparison

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

I mean I guess we'll see. I don't mean to join his camp and go gung ho for Smart or anything but OSU's implosion had a lot more going on than just Smart's issues.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

ˇHola SEA!


Kibner posted:

Why do I get the feeling he'll basically be Rodney Stuckey?

Probably because the last guy who was supposed to be Dwyane Wade was...Rodney Stuckey.

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/2014/06/2014_nba_draft_sixers_will_do_whatever_it_takes_to_get_andrew_wiggins_according_to_report.html


quote:


When the Sixers didn't land the No. 1 pick in the 2014 NBA Draft, any hopes of taking Kansas forward Andrew Wiggins appeared to go out the window.

Well, it sounds like general manager Sam Hinkie is going to kick that window back open.

According to Anthony Gargano of 94WIP, the Sixers are prepared to do "whatever it takes" to get Wiggins on draft night.

"The Sixers are in love with [Andrew] Wiggins and they will do whatever they need to do to land Andrew Wiggins,” Gargano reported on Wednesday. “From what I hear, it’s 90-percent they get Wiggins. They’ll do whatever it takes.”

Just what will it take for the Sixers to guarantee they end the 2014 NBA Draft with Wiggins?

For the Sixers to ensure they get their guy, they would have to move up two spots to No. 1 overall. A move from No. 3 to the top pick would likely take the Sixers' pick at No. 10, and could even cost more depending on how committed the Cleveland Cavaliers were to taking their guy at No. 1.

If the Sixers trade their 3 and 10 to move up to 1 to take Wiggins who will probably fall to them anyway I just don't know what to say. Kind of a huge slap to Parker (or I guess Embiid). Wiggins is not better than Parker and Nik Stauskas combined in my opinion. (just as an example)

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005
Ask me about my SAS erotic fan fiction
But the Sixers already have a ton of young guys with a poo poo ton of cap room. Shouldn't be unrealistic that they'd trade up, land Wiggins, develop the core group of Wiggins/MCW/Noel, then add some great veteran help at PF/SF.

Probably Magic
Oct 9, 2012

kiimo posted:

Sherron Collins is 5'10 and a half tops with a huge giant Taco Bell problem. Smart is 6'4 or just under. That's really not a good comparison. You really think he'll suck? C'mon. When I say warrior I'm not using that hyperbole lightly like a superfan or something. He gets after it and that is a real thing not an imaginary homer thing to say, especially considering I hate his loving guts.

I meant more in the "bull down into the lane against all odds" way, I know they're not even the same position. But it's not a thing that works for NBA guards in general unless you have the shot to back it up. He doesn't have amazing handles, he's not really that much of an assist guy... his best chance was getting drafted high last year, and we all know what that class was like. That was the only class he could really make a splash in and why he had publicity coming into this year. He's not going to be that great. If he is, great for him, I wish him no ill will, but I wouldn't hedge my bets on his success.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

The 10 pick is worth giving up to ensure you get the guy you want imho.

morestuff
Aug 2, 2008

You can't stop what's coming

euphronius posted:

The 10 pick is worth giving up to ensure you get the guy you want imho.

Yeah, if they really want Wiggins, it's probably the only way to guarantee that. Every year you see variations on the "Bucks are in love with Parker!" stories, and they end up taking someone else.

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.
They could also see what happens and offer their #3 and #10 if someone takes Wiggins.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
If I really wanted a guy and I was in the Sixer's position where I had so much youth anyway I would probably be willing to give up the ten to get the guy. Also it works for the Cavs because Jordair Jett is much less of a reach at 3 . . . .

pylb
Sep 22, 2010

"The superfluous, a very necessary thing"

Lockback posted:

They could also see what happens and offer their #3 and #10 if someone takes Wiggins.

They're actually not interested in Wiggins and are trying to bluff the Cavs or Bucks into taking him instead of Parker and Embiid, and trying to trade him for #3 and #10.

Chris de Sperg
Aug 14, 2009


BIZORT posted:

Every year we all, more or less, agree on at least one guy that will bust but I'm not sure we've all come to that consensus yet for this draft. The only one we've been wrong about off the top of my head is Drummond
Joakim Noah, the entire 2008 draft basically

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd

Lockback posted:

They could also see what happens and offer their #3 and #10 if someone takes Wiggins.


So if the Bucks actually want Parker then picking Wiggins would get them Parker + #10?

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
The draft is a lot less fun when there's anxiety about your team making a choice instead of just showing up and seeing what name Mitch Kupchak made up for the actor he hired to pretend to be a prospect from the Congo or some guy who ends up playing four years in the league at 40.

Spring Break My Heart
Feb 15, 2012

euphronius posted:

The 10 pick is worth giving up to ensure you get the guy you want imho.
Yeah, if you seriously think there's a gap there, and you think other teams see it the same way, that's not a big price to move up from guy you kind of like to guy you're in love with. I would also seriously doubt that Cleveland would accept.

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005
Ask me about my SAS erotic fan fiction

Rick posted:

The draft is a lot less fun when your team never has a first round pick, ever.

EvanTH
Apr 24, 2004

i like to express my inner pain by being really boring on the phone
or just when i'm kickin it
that's me though
i'm kind of oddddddd


I hope they chant Dolan Sucks every pick if they're not going to boo Adam Silver

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

ˇHola SEA!


Chris de Sperg posted:

Joakim Noah, the entire 2008 draft basically

This forum was indeed super, super wrong about a ton of guys in this draft - almost everyone thought Love was an unathletic guy who dominated college competition Shelden Williams style, Westbrook was a no skills athletic freak who belonged in the late lottery, Lopez was a stiff (which is sort of true, I guess, but didn't stop him from being good), OJ Mayo was going to be great.

2008 turned out to be a really good class largely on the strength of a really good late 1st/2nd group of players. Knowing what we know now (i.e. Derrick Rose is dead) a redraft would look crazy. Something like...

Love
Westbrook
Ibaka
Lopez
Hibbert
Dragic
Anderson
Pekovic
Jordan
Batum
Gordon

and where do you take the Rose timebomb?

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
I might still draft Rose over a couple of guys for a couple good years even knowing that he potentially would have a short career.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?
I liked Love and Lopez! Hated Westbrook though. gently caress trying to project Ben Howland guards.

Hashtag Banterzone
Dec 8, 2005


Lifetime Winner of the willkill4food Honorary Bad Posting Award in PWM
Moving up seems to have gotten harder recently. I think teams want to avoid looking like Chicago did when they swapped Aldridge for Tyrus Thomas.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

Take me to your Shida

DeimosRising posted:

This forum was indeed super, super wrong about a ton of guys in this draft - almost everyone thought Love was an unathletic guy who dominated college competition Shelden Williams style, Westbrook was a no skills athletic freak who belonged in the late lottery, Lopez was a stiff (which is sort of true, I guess, but didn't stop him from being good), OJ Mayo was going to be great.

2008 turned out to be a really good class largely on the strength of a really good late 1st/2nd group of players. Knowing what we know now (i.e. Derrick Rose is dead) a redraft would look crazy. Something like...

Love
Westbrook
Ibaka
Lopez
Hibbert
Dragic
Anderson
Pekovic
Jordan
Batum
Gordon

and where do you take the Rose timebomb?



I bet a lot of GMs would draft Westbrook over Love because WINS and LEADERSHIP

kiimo
Jul 24, 2003

The two guys I was most wrong about were Stephen Curry (drat that kid just defies all odds) and Michael Beasley. gently caress you Beasley.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

ˇHola SEA!


IcePhoenix posted:

I bet a lot of GMs would draft Westbrook over Love because WINS and LEADERSHIP

It's not indefensible, particularly if you have needs on the wing. With a good coach who could reign him in and get him to buy into a defensive scheme, Westbrook is a top 10 player.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Rick posted:

Gordon was apparently a big hit in the Lakers workout today, apparently him and McDermott really went at each other.

The Stoppable Force vs. The Indifferent Object

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001

In basketball, I'd take quality over quantity so I see no issue with trading #3 and #10 for #1 if you think there is a clear difference between Wiggins and Parker.

Spacebump
Dec 23, 2003

Dallas Mavericks: Generations

IcePhoenix posted:

I bet a lot of GMs would draft Westbrook over Love because WINS and LEADERSHIP

Or defense.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

MourningView posted:

I liked Love and Lopez! Hated Westbrook though. gently caress trying to project Ben Howland guards.

Do we consider Kyle Anderson a Ben Howland Joint and if so do we consider him to be a guard or a forward

More to the point do we consider him anything other than Royce White but with a Stephen Curry-esque head

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?

Declan MacManus posted:

Do we consider Kyle Anderson a Ben Howland Joint and if so do we consider him to be a guard or a forward

More to the point do we consider him anything other than Royce White but with a Stephen Curry-esque head

The big improvement from year 1 to year 2 seems to suggest that he got Howland'd like a motherfucker. I have no idea what to make of him though. Like at all. I don't even know what position he plays. I think SF, but I could see someone trying him at PG. Everything about him baffles me. He could be a star, he could be out of the league in a year. I'm pretty positive he will be a disaster on defense, but that's about it. I do like him more than I liked White because he can credibly play on the wing, but I was about as low on White as anyone I can remember reading (and not because of the off the court stuff...and mostly not because he went to Iowa State)

MourningView fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Jun 5, 2014

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.
Maybe I was seeing things, but every UCLA game I watched Kyle Anderson just looked so very slow and unathletic. I remember thinking, even as he was putting up 20 points and a bunch of assists, that I can't see how he would be even a mediocre NBA player.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?

mikeraskol posted:

Maybe I was seeing things, but every UCLA game I watched Kyle Anderson just looked so very slow and unathletic.

He is! He is literally nicknamed "slo-mo". But he's also really long, super skilled, and stuffs the stat sheet. Like his assist rate was higher than every point guard in the first round. If you gave him Andrew Wiggins' athleticism he would be the best basketball player on earth. Life is unfair and cruel.

MourningView fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jun 5, 2014

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Bush Did Outer Heaven
Jan 18, 2005

The Sweetest Payne

IcePhoenix posted:

I bet a lot of GMs would draft Westbrook over Love because WINS and LEADERSHIP

Or because Westbrook is better than Love.

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