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Bad Seafood
Dec 10, 2010

If you must blink, do it now.


All Else Failed posted:

Whether the judgment is good or bad, I don't have faith in strangers to properly judge me as a person; why would I trust them to properly judge my writing?

All Else Failed posted:

I appreciate all of the good feedback I've gotten in real life from people I know, but I don't even trust that from a technical standpoint.
So, uh, who exactly is it that is qualified to judge your work?

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Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008



Ramrod XTreme

EngineerSean posted:

I'm #10 KDP All Star which means they're going to pay me a middle class salary on top of the upper class salary I made in October.

yay

Congrats! I'm nowhere near this level, but is it per pen name or per KDP account? I imagine it's per pen name, because they promote you.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Jalumibnkrayal posted:

Congrats! I'm nowhere near this level, but is it per pen name or per KDP account? I imagine it's per pen name, because they promote you.

It's pen name, the erotica pen names get none of this love.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Behold my brain the golden throne of my consciousness. In here I am seated. Shackled. From here I police the land.



All Else Failed posted:

Of course. The path less traveled is full of brambles and the chalkdust bones of past adventurers. There are pros and cons to every approach.

I want to know these lucrative erotica categories that do not cater to what people want. It'll be like http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/15749016-i-hosed-the-puppet , right?

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING


I can't imagine ever wanting to read a book he has written but have you guys considered that he has forged a new forums-based market and every thousand words of his bizarre egomania you read nets him cold hard cash? Because if that's a real market he is nailing it, he has probably dozens of goons reading a buttload of his words when not a single one of you would have read, for free, a book of even half the length with his name on it

Gotta play the game amigos

Ghostwoods
May 9, 2013

Say "Cheese!"


EngineerSean posted:

I'm #10 KDP All Star

Woohoo! Many congrats, dude.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Behold my brain the golden throne of my consciousness. In here I am seated. Shackled. From here I police the land.



Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

have you guys considered that he has forged a new forums-based market and every thousand words of his bizarre egomania you read nets him cold hard cash?

I never considered it because these forums's revenue are not built on clickbait, and that is a strange thing to believe.

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING


The Saddest Rhino posted:

I never considered it because these forums's revenue are not built on clickbait, and that is a strange thing to believe.

... I wasn't seriously suggesting he was making money from wasting people's time. It was a tongue-in-cheek comment to point out how silly the situation is, for reasons already mentioned. Instead of making money for himself, he has probably actually cost these forums a net loss by distracting actual professionals from their work. :psyduck:

Sulla Faex fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Nov 15, 2014

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Behold my brain the golden throne of my consciousness. In here I am seated. Shackled. From here I police the land.



This is a serious thread where things are taken seriously and your "tongue in cheek" nonsense is not welcome. Excuse me but we have some very important erotica questions to address, and you are wasting precious forum webspace with your terrible words.

Sulla Faex
May 14, 2010

No man ever did me so much good, or enemy so much harm, but I repaid him with ENDLESS SHITPOSTING


I appreciate that you are trying to help me and that I did come here asking for help on how to be a better poster but I have a natural gift for sesquipedalian posting that is of such a high artistic integrity that to even trained professionals it is indistinguishable from trash. Being base and unworthy creatures I would not expect you to appreciate my talent or my posts, and in fact there is not a single person alive who could appreciate my posts for what they are. However I'm not leaving until somebody gives me tips on posting. So long as those tips don't require me to change my posting, because, as we already discussed, my posts are perfect. In fact what I'm really trying to get at is that we need to come together and work as a team to improve your posting receptiveness. You guys suck at appreciating perfect posting so maybe we can just start working out a way to improve your reading.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

this changes nothing, i am still dead inside

I can't actually read, I just dictate php scripts that pick up on keywords.

Szmitten
Apr 26, 2008


EngineerSean posted:

It's pen name, the erotica pen names get none of this love.

Wait, is this because you're outselling erotica or just that they're not eligible?

Either way, neat. Congrats. (How exactly do you market yourself?)

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005


EngineerSean posted:

I'm #10 KDP All Star which means they're going to pay me a middle class salary on top of the upper class salary I made in October.

yay

Congratulations! :D

I ended up somewhere just short of #100, but it was an erotica name so I probably wouldn't have gotten anything even if I had hit the mark. Still, not bad for a zero-release health nightmare month.

Great things are coming, though. AMAZING THINGS! :D

Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit


Bad Seafood posted:

So, uh, who exactly is it that is qualified to judge your work?

I should have qualified that by saying "stuffy internet nerds who are openly hostile at someone they think is them seven years ago". My bad.

Sulla-Marius 88 posted:

I appreciate that you are trying to help me and that I did come here asking for help on how to be a better poster but I have a natural gift for sesquipedalian posting that is of such a high artistic integrity that to even trained professionals it is indistinguishable from trash. Being base and unworthy creatures I would not expect you to appreciate my talent or my posts, and in fact there is not a single person alive who could appreciate my posts for what they are. However I'm not leaving until somebody gives me tips on posting. So long as those tips don't require me to change my posting, because, as we already discussed, my posts are perfect. In fact what I'm really trying to get at is that we need to come together and work as a team to improve your posting receptiveness. You guys suck at appreciating perfect posting so maybe we can just start working out a way to improve your reading.

Awww. I wouldn't quit your day job to write comedy, my friend.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Szmitten posted:

Wait, is this because you're outselling erotica or just that they're not eligible?

Erotica pen names are elligible (Jordan Silver got it at least once) but most genres (mainly ones that you have the Mary Sue teenage fantasies, like romance, scifi, thriller) sell better than erotica in the long run, especially super short form erotica. I've had some real stellar months for some erotica pen names where I made $10k and I think that's basically the limit you can expect, whereas the sky is the limit in most other genres.

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.





All Else Failed posted:

I should have qualified that by saying "stuffy internet nerds who are openly hostile at someone they think is them seven years ago". My bad.


Awww. I wouldn't quit your day job to write comedy, my friend.

I wouldn't quit your day job to write erot....oh.

Anyways, his criticism is perfectly valid. It sounds like you have exactly the kind of issues that make writing for a living a non-starter. I think you are going to end up realizing that writing a bunch of words you hate for audience you look down on is not exactly going to be a fulfilling career. Spending like half a year before you even have the tiniest sliver of a chance of paying your rent isn't all that stable of a career plan to begin with, but you said you have a ton of time to get set up so I guess that might not be an issue. (But for real, the majority of self-pubbed authors, even in erotica, would be making more money flipping burgers.) I know you said you wanted business advice, which you've gotten tons of - or as much as anyone could really give you until you've actually finished writing something - so I'm not sure what more you are looking for.

But yeah, waving your dick around going "I'm a great writer but nobody in here (the people I'm asking for advice on how to sell my writing for money) is qualified to look at it" is probably not going to garner a lot of sympathy. The people in here trying to help you are, like, doing what you are trying to do, dude. The reason people are harping on it is that "being a decent writer somewhere other than your imagination" actually is an indicator of success in a writing career. You may very well be a good writer, but I'm sure you can understand why people would be skeptical.

Enrico Furby
Jun 28, 2003

by Hand Knit


Grizzled Patriarch posted:

I wouldn't quit your day job to write erot....oh.

Anyways, his criticism is perfectly valid. It sounds like you have exactly the kind of issues that make writing for a living a non-starter. I think you are going to end up realizing that writing a bunch of words you hate for audience you look down on is not exactly going to be a fulfilling career. Spending like half a year before you even have the tiniest sliver of a chance of paying your rent isn't all that stable of a career plan to begin with, but you said you have a ton of time to get set up so I guess that might not be an issue. (But for real, the majority of self-pubbed authors, even in erotica, would be making more money flipping burgers.) I know you said you wanted business advice, which you've gotten tons of - or as much as anyone could really give you until you've actually finished writing something - so I'm not sure what more you are looking for.

But yeah, waving your dick around going "I'm a great writer but nobody in here (the people I'm asking for advice on how to sell my writing for money) is qualified to look at it" is probably not going to garner a lot of sympathy. The people in here trying to help you are, like, doing what you are trying to do, dude. The reason people are harping on it is that "being a decent writer somewhere other than your imagination" actually is an indicator of success in a writing career. You may very well be a good writer, but I'm sure you can understand why people would be skeptical.

I don't care if I'm a good writer or not. If you look back, I was very clear about my position on this. I took a little time to be honest and forthright when queried, but I also mentioned a couple of times that I didn't want this thread to devolve into a weird circlejerk about me and my weirdness. And I certainly don't want it to be about speculating whether I can write or not as it is a moot point. A nonstarter. Inconsequential. This isn't my first time at the Something Awful rodeo. :)

I love this thread for the shoptalk! That's all I want for now! I am only responding sparsely to certain posts about me -- weeks later -- because I'm bored. Let's be honest: this thread moves slow and I am a fun way to pass the time for many of the 'spergy or judge-y or even helpful people lurking and posting here. That's fine. I hope it's at least educational. Don't be like me and, uhhh, I dunno, be honest about your subjective life experience in the cold, vast expanse of an online messageboard as you try to muster the effort to apply the small skillset you have in the twilight of your productive years.

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Poster "All Else Failed", let me ask you a serious question. It's been twelve days (give or take) since you first posted in this thread. Have you written or published any erotica works? I've only done one and outlined another in that period of time because I took a vacation, but erotica is definitely a numbers game and if you aren't producing, you aren't going to make it.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011




I don't want to poo poo on you, but your posts are devoid of value at this point. Just white noise. How about you go away and come back once you've written something or need some practical advice?

Grizzled Patriarch
Mar 27, 2014

These dentures won't stop me from tearing out jugulars in Thunderdome.





All Else Failed posted:

Don't be like me and, uhhh, I dunno, be honest about your subjective life experience in the cold, vast expanse of an online messageboard as you try to muster the effort to apply the small skillset you have in the twilight of your productive years.

There's a whole sub-forum for this, btw: http://forums.somethingawful.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=214

Bad Seafood
Dec 10, 2010

If you must blink, do it now.


All Else Failed posted:

I should have qualified that by saying "stuffy internet nerds who are openly hostile at someone they think is them seven years ago". My bad.
You still haven't answered my question.

What boxes do I have to check to be the guy whose critique you take seriously?

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010


Bad Seafood posted:

You still haven't answered my question.

What boxes do I have to check to be the guy whose critique you take seriously?
You have to take his cock in your mouth and mumble through it "All Else Failed you're the best, you're perfect. I'm so so sorry that I was a big meanie weenie and hurt your feelings. You are a good writer despite not writing anything, and despite not enjoying it, and despite not respecting your audience."

If he lets you, that it. His cock is pretty complex, and I don't think you'd get it.

Seriously though dude, if you're not going to listen to us, listen to EngineerSean. He knows his poo poo, and he's in there being pretty polite to you while we're throwing poop everywhere. He is living your dream, and he's probably worth talking to and listening to.

Bad Seafood
Dec 10, 2010

If you must blink, do it now.


SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

You have to take his cock in your mouth and mumble through it "All Else Failed you're the best, you're perfect. I'm so so sorry that I was a big meanie weenie and hurt your feelings. You are a good writer despite not writing anything, and despite not enjoying it, and despite not respecting your audience."

If he lets you, that it. His cock is pretty complex, and I don't think you'd get it.
Probably not. I try not to waste my time on vignettes.

The Saddest Rhino
Apr 29, 2009

Behold my brain the golden throne of my consciousness. In here I am seated. Shackled. From here I police the land.



All Else Failed posted:

I don't care if I'm a good writer or not.

Stop playing or watching League of Legends, and start caring about yourself. Be good to your own well-being and try to improve. Never give up hope. Never stop working harder.

The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 08:56 on Nov 16, 2014

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

this changes nothing, i am still dead inside

I love how AEF is acting like you guys are the big mean guardians of self-pub success who are refusing to give up your secrets, when in fact the posts he's interpreting as attacks are the actual advice.

In summary:

:smuggo: teach me kung fu sifu

:eng101: first we must work on your posture which even outside of combat I can see is sloppy-

:smugjones: gently caress you I don't need to prove myself to you, teach me kung fu damnit

:eng99: um

Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Nov 16, 2014

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Bobby Deluxe posted:

I love how AEF is acting like you guys are the big mean guardians of self-pub success who are refusing to give up your secrets, when in fact the posts he's interpreting as attacks are the actual advice.

In summary:

:smuggo: teach me kung fu sifu

:eng101: first we must work on your posture which even outside of combat I can see is sloppy-

:smugjones: gently caress you I don't need to prove myself to you, teach me kung fu damnit

:eng99: um

I am totally using this.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011




Over at my premade cover store, everything is 50% off the list price (Code: FIFTY). They're going fast, but quite a few left still. Valid until the end of the year.

http://store.ravenkult.com/

No Gravitas
Jun 12, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Eh... I need a punch in the gut reality check.

I'm almost done with creating a 20k word story in the... uh... don't laugh... magical realism genre.


:stonk: ART! :stonk:


It won't sell no matter how cheap, right?

Popular Human
Jul 17, 2005

and if it's a lie, terrorists made me say it


No Gravitas posted:

Eh... I need a punch in the gut reality check.

I'm almost done with creating a 20k word story in the... uh... don't laugh... magical realism genre.


:stonk: ART! :stonk:


It won't sell no matter how cheap, right?


Give yourself a pen name and pretend you're from Latin America.

edit: this also lets you explain any awkward prose as 'translation difficulties'

No Gravitas
Jun 12, 2013

by FactsAreUseless


Popular Human posted:

Give yourself a pen name and pretend you're from Latin America.

edit: this also lets you explain any awkward prose as 'translation difficulties'

Splendid idea. I willing to entomb this as my being for coverup of prose.

- Ignatio Juan-Valdez de la Pereira III

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008



Ramrod XTreme

ravenkult posted:

Over at my premade cover store, everything is 50% off the list price (Code: FIFTY). They're going fast, but quite a few left still. Valid until the end of the year.

http://store.ravenkult.com/

Oh, Death looks gorgeous. Definitely getting some True Detective vibes from that.

Mr. Belding
May 19, 2006
^
|
<- IS LAME-O PHOBE ->
|
V


EngineerSean posted:

Poster "All Else Failed", let me ask you a serious question. It's been twelve days (give or take) since you first posted in this thread. Have you written or published any erotica works? I've only done one and outlined another in that period of time because I took a vacation, but erotica is definitely a numbers game and if you aren't producing, you aren't going to make it.

Out of curiosity, why do you continue to write erotica given the success of your other stuff (which also, I can't remember, if it's trad romance or new adult)?

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Mr. Belding posted:

Out of curiosity, why do you continue to write erotica given the success of your other stuff (which also, I can't remember, if it's trad romance or new adult)?

Believe me, I've asked myself this same question.

Um, there's no real easy answer. The easiest one would be that I must obey ~The Muse~ and unfortunately that's bad business practice but I have a lot of leeway to pursue bad decisions like that. If I were on the outside looking in I'd tell myself to abandon erotica every day, but it's hard. I can always get excited about an erotica short but not romance (because I am a child who needs immediate gratification). It helps that my side projects also make me like an upper-middle class wage on their own. It's funny because I write erotica because I'm not in dire straights, but if I really did get down to dire straights, I'd write nothing but erotica until I was back on my feet because it's so easy.

So I guess the answer is because I'm good at it and enjoy it and it pays well enough that I wouldn't be poor if I did only that.

Mr. Belding
May 19, 2006
^
|
<- IS LAME-O PHOBE ->
|
V


That's a good answer. If you actually enjoy it more than you do romance then it would make sense that you would write more of it. I do think there's something to be said for them being short too. Finishing something feels good and if you can finish something in 3 days instead of 3 months, then that's a lot of gratification.

Bobby Deluxe
May 9, 2004

this changes nothing, i am still dead inside

EngineerSean posted:

It's funny because I write erotica because I'm not in dire straights, but if I really did get down to dire straights, I'd write nothing but erotica until I was back on my feet because it's so easy.
See, everyone says it's easy but I'm finding it's taking me two weeks to put a story together, and I keep going way over 5k. At this rate it's going to take me a year to get to earning anything like a decent living from it.

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008



Ramrod XTreme

Ha! Just emailed KDP support to have them update the page count on my hottest book right now. It didn't have one, and that was preventing me from ranking in the Short Reads categories. So they fixed it, and I knocked Dean Koontz out of the top ten in a little category. Stupid thing to get hyped about, but I'll take it. :)

Edit: ^^ It's not uncommon for it to take some time to, essentially, launch a new business from scratch. Especially one where you have to learn to do everything yourself or hire the right freelancers. My first month in this I made four dollars. My second month I made zero dollars. It gets better. ;)

Jalumibnkrayal fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Nov 18, 2014

EngineerSean
Feb 9, 2004

by zen death robot


Bobby Deluxe posted:

See, everyone says it's easy but I'm finding it's taking me two weeks to put a story together, and I keep going way over 5k. At this rate it's going to take me a year to get to earning anything like a decent living from it.

I don't know what to tell you man. I can't make a basic erotica cover to save my life, yet my wife can do one in less than five minutes sometimes. We all have strengths and weaknesses.

thehomemaster
Jul 16, 2014

by Ralp


A few questions.

First, how did most of you guys get started? Did you have a job and do it on the side, or do you still do that? What are the bestselling categories? If I were to take this up I would start pumping out SFF books for YA and adult, but I wonder how strong that area is for self-pubbers compared to erotica, romance and crime thrillers.

Second, how many of you hire people to edit? Would you consider hiring a person to do editing? I'm interested if there is a market to specifically target self-publishers with editing services, possibly other services as well if they aren't interested in publicity and the technical side of things (and then also ghost-writing). Basically the benefits of a publisher without being locked into a contract and only having to do one-off payments.

Jalumibnkrayal
Apr 16, 2008



Ramrod XTreme

thehomemaster posted:

A few questions.

First, how did most of you guys get started? Did you have a job and do it on the side, or do you still do that? What are the bestselling categories? If I were to take this up I would start pumping out SFF books for YA and adult, but I wonder how strong that area is for self-pubbers compared to erotica, romance and crime thrillers.

As far as most of us are concerned, there's little difference between self-pub and traditional pub. Traditional pub has an upper hand when it comes to marketing, but how significant that advantage is varies. As long as you research the categories you're looking to write in and you can produce lots of content, you'll do well. You can check Amazon yourself to see what the bestselling categories are, and this will be good practice. You'll be spending a lot of time researching stuff on Amazon.

Keep in mind that you're probably looking at 90 day delay between you selling a book and you getting paid for that book. Obviously, keep your day job and work on writing on the side. Right now Amazon is dominating the market, so small changes on their end have pretty extreme ripples. Like how we're all being paid less and less each month for our books in the KDP Select program. For many the program is still worth it, but in a month or two that might change.

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SaviourX
Sep 29, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.



So with the mad holiday season approaching, what's everyone doing to prepare or promote their works?

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