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Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

mr.capps posted:

Someone to stop the vig. The leak only had info related to my empire and legion. It contain information about the vig. But it also include info about my "sneak thief ways" to stop any transactions. The person who pressed the panic button didn't realize the transaction was planned for night.

I don't think so, because we were really wary of the deal before we got the list since we had no idea whether it would hurt us more than Legion coming after us.

We hadn't decided to take it when the information was given.

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Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Byers2142 posted:

Hmmm, but why protect Amni? He was empire aligned, not scum.

To keep legion looking less of a juicy target.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Asiina posted:

I don't think so, because we were really wary of the deal before we got the list since we had no idea whether it would hurt us more than Legion coming after us.

We hadn't decided to take it when the information was given.

It wasn't someone from your empire to make the leak happen initially. A scum wouldn't want to be involve in that circus. It was someone who knew about the deal outside your empire, was paranoid , and talked their scum buddy into doing it.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


The Imperialists are also more likely to do the scum's job for them, what with their win conditions being what they are. Keeping the Imperialists strong would allow them to continue to pursue aggressive, military goals, removing more players from the game.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Meinberg posted:

The Imperialists are also more likely to do the scum's job for them, what with their win conditions being what they are. Keeping the Imperialists strong would allow them to continue to pursue aggressive, military goals, removing more players from the game.

Exactly. That is why they hit the panic button.

Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.


Eight Dollars posted:

Crazyeyes you are weirdly ignoring the whole Byers claiming there is scum in MediFed/Legion/AU. Why is that? There's got to be scum in one of you three if it's true.

I thought that response would be lumped in with my response to Quids equal distribution bullshit. The only ~good~ reason Byers could offer for this belief is I'd he already knows who scum is. I will say again: there is no reason to believe every team has a scum player. If you claim to believe this is the case, you are scum who knows it's true, or stupid. Maybe both.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Byers2142 posted:

I disagree; we all have individual wincons, some of which are not exactly in line with other empires' wincons. Because we're not a unified front, because we all have things we need to do above and beyond eliminating scum for our individual empires to win, we're working at odds in some cases on the Civ end. Revealing the leak helps with scum hunting, but I have no need or desire to help you in your civ goals by, say, telling you a nation's likely to be weak to Espionage.

You are a silly person. How do guys seriously not understand that your wincon would be ~infinitely~ easier to achieve through mutual cooperation?


Meinberg posted:

The Imperialists are also more likely to do the scum's job for them, what with their win conditions being what they are. Keeping the Imperialists strong would allow them to continue to pursue aggressive, military goals, removing more players from the game.
Alternately, the legion were the only empire who's wincon required hitting scum.

Although, FV said there was some misunderstanding about that. I would like it to be posted and confirmed by all remaining legionnaires what exactly their two wincons are.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

VivaNova posted:

Alternately, the legion were the only empire who's wincon required hitting scum.
Besides the "no scum remaining" part obvi.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


VivaNova posted:

Alternately, the legion were the only empire who's wincon required hitting scum.

Although, FV said there was some misunderstanding about that. I would like it to be posted and confirmed by all remaining legionnaires what exactly their two wincons are.

They could be call the Axis of Power and you would still think working with them would be a swell idea.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...


Crazyeyes posted:

I thought that response would be lumped in with my response to Quids equal distribution bullshit. The only ~good~ reason Byers could offer for this belief is I'd he already knows who scum is. I will say again: there is no reason to believe every team has a scum player. If you claim to believe this is the case, you are scum who knows it's true, or stupid. Maybe both.

Scum gave us information that could only have come from inside the MediFed and Legion docs. Hence, there are scum in all three empires. Do you disagree with that analysis?

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Anyway, as I was saying. Viva knew I was working a deal at that time with Sand. But Viva probably didn't realize the transaction me and sand were negotiating wasn't to activate the vig, my empire could do that, but for later that night.

So it was someone in Java's panic button, not necessarily viva's, but could be.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P


Byers2142 posted:

I disagree; we all have individual wincons, some of which are not exactly in line with other empires' wincons. Because we're not a unified front, because we all have things we need to do above and beyond eliminating scum for our individual empires to win, we're working at odds in some cases on the Civ end. Revealing the leak helps with scum hunting, but I have no need or desire to help you in your civ goals by, say, telling you a nation's likely to be weak to Espionage.

And by not sharing you condemn the town to wallow in misinformation and rumor, a status that only allows scum to exploit the situation further. You need to share for the good of the town.

Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.


Byers2142 posted:

Scum gave us information that could only have come from inside the MediFed and Legion docs. Hence, there are scum in all three empires. Do you disagree with that analysis?

I don't know how you can make that claim when we all have diplomats that can talk to each other. How do you know they didn't pass info that way to your doc?

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Java scum came up with panic button, Legion scum supported it, force AU scum to do the leak.

Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.


Abd all this fiddling with Google docs and seeing anonymous figures is very spooky, but I honestly don't know what it means. I suppose your claim of scum invasion is possible from that perspective.

Asiina
Apr 26, 2011

No going back


Grimey Drawer

There's no way to know who it was via the doc because it was someone who came in, posted the picture, and left. Maybe a new person, probably someone who was already in there who opened a new window.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

mr.capps posted:

They could be call the Axis of Power and you would still think working with them would be a swell idea.

Correct. That is the nature of this game.


Byers2142 posted:

Scum gave us information that could only have come from inside the MediFed and Legion docs. Hence, there are scum in all three empires. Do you disagree with that analysis?

So if you're so concerned with your precious AU wincon (which is only arguably more anti-town than legion's), why not post the info about legion and medifed?


mr.capps posted:

Anyway, as I was saying. Viva knew I was working a deal at that time with Sand. But Viva probably didn't realize the transaction me and sand were negotiating wasn't to activate the vig, my empire could do that, but for later that night.

So it was someone in Java's panic button, not necessarily viva's, but could be.

mr.capps posted:

Java scum came up with panic button, Legion scum supported it, force AU scum to do the leak.

I didn't say anything to my empire-mates and you are overstating how much you two told me, you kept me in the dark.

This "let's just throw poo poo against the wall and see what sticks" style for the last few pages is reminiscent of your play as scum in Poque's zodiac game.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Crazyeyes, you're like an ostrich with its head in the sand about all this. It's not so much that you believe what you do as that you refuse to consider any other possibility is viable. It's rather absurd and your attempts to brush off what happened don't sit well with me.

##vote Crazyeyes

Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.


Asiina posted:

There's no way to know who it was via the doc because it was someone who came in, posted the picture, and left. Maybe a new person, probably someone who was already in there who opened a new window.

What was the picture of

Crazyeyes
Nov 5, 2009

If I were human, I believe my response would be: 'go to hell'.


Rarity posted:

Crazyeyes, you're like an ostrich with its head in the sand about all this. It's not so much that you believe what you do as that you refuse to consider any other possibility is viable. It's rather absurd and your attempts to brush off what happened don't sit well with me.

##vote Crazyeyes

I have responded candidly to the questions posed to me. I see nothing wrong with my responses.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P


post the picture

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


VivaNova posted:

This "let's just throw poo poo against the wall and see what sticks" style for the last few pages is reminiscent of your play as scum in Poque's zodiac game.

I kick rear end at that game.

Byers was any info about team java revealed?

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


VivaNova posted:

I didn't say anything to my empire-mates and you are overstating how much you two told me, you kept me in the dark.

Also this is my point. The panic button was hit by someone in the dark.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


VivaNova posted:

Correct. That is the nature of this game.

Also its called a joke

Busb run a ww2 civilization game and make the Axis good guys

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

mr.capps posted:

Busb run a ww2 civilization game and make the Axis good guys
QPQ calls dibs.

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P


mr.capps posted:

Also its called a joke

Busb run a ww2 civilization game and make the Axis good guys

I've got a Mafia game ready that is set during the occupation of the Channel Islands. Town is composed of Nazis and collaborators. Scum is the resistance movement. Hoping to launch it after this game is over.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...


mr.capps posted:

I kick rear end at that game.

Byers was any info about team java revealed?

Just about JakeP. I didn't even realize he was Java.

QuoProQuid posted:

post the picture

No.

Crazyeyes posted:

What was the picture of

National Powers was the main thing, the picture was a cell phone picture of a small portion of a larger spreadsheet.

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Byers2142 posted:

National Powers was the main thing, the picture was a cell phone picture of a small portion of a larger spreadsheet.

Draw a picture of how the info looked in the picture

Juanito
Jan 20, 2004

I wasn't paying attention
to what you just said.

Can you repeat yourself
in a more interesting way?


Hell Gem

Byers2142 posted:


National Powers was the main thing, the picture was a cell phone picture of a small portion of a larger spreadsheet.
what the gently caress is going on in this game

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...


VivaNova posted:

So if you're so concerned with your precious AU wincon (which is only arguably more anti-town than legion's), why not post the info about legion and medifed?

Because once it's posted, it's posted, and knowing it internally might help my empire.

Crazyeyes posted:

I don't know how you can make that claim when we all have diplomats that can talk to each other. How do you know they didn't pass info that way to your doc?

So a diplomat from another empire gained entry to our doc, posted detailed information on players in multiple other empires, and then peaced out without saying a word. Then our diplomat reacted in shock and anger at my "scumclaim."

##vote crazyeyes

Sorry your scumbro outing that there's a scum in the Legion.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


Crazyeyes posted:

I have responded candidly to the questions posed to me. I see nothing wrong with my responses.

I don't understand why you find it so hard to entertain the possibility that someone in the Imperials is scum. You're jumping through extremely high loops to find another answer

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

i fucking love scoops


mr.capps posted:

Draw a picture of how the info looked in the picture

Can you express this picture in the form of interpretive dance?

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Byers did anyone look at the metadata of the photo?

Snooze Cruise
Feb 16, 2013

look-
a post,


Also
##vote crazyeyes

QuoProQuid
Jan 12, 2012

Tr*ckin' and F*ckin' all the way to tha
T O P


Byers2142 posted:

Just about JakeP. I didn't even realize he was Java.

Just post whatever you have on JakeP then. I give you my special permission as a Java because I'm confused about what you could possibly have.

Byers2142
May 5, 2011

Imagine I said something deep here...


QuoProQuid posted:

Just post whatever you have on JakeP then. I give you my special permission as a Java because I'm confused about what you could possibly have.

You asked for it:

"JakeP: Gain $ for every 3 pop damage during in..."

It cuts off there, but I think it's saying he gets money for every 3 population he kills in an invasion. So his industrial build-up is likely military, and he's weak to espionage if he's playing his role at all like he should.

So his one line gives us his power and tells us, if we wanted to, how to attack him. Putting that knowledge in the clear for two additional empires does not help us to achieve our wincon, because what we need more than anything for ours is time and that kind of information would lead to faster, deadlier wars.

mr.capps posted:

Byers did anyone look at the metadata of the photo?

Considering until I came back everyone thought it was me, there was no real serious analysis done on it, and to be honest searching metadata goes beyond what I'm comfortable with in an internet party game. It'd be like looking at IP connections to SA during deadline to see people that are present but not talking/voting.

Rarity posted:

Can you express this picture in the form of interpretive dance?

Nailed it.

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




It's clearly a picture of some small chunk of a google doc. It has two full empires listed and what their powers are. That's pretty much it.

Also when it was posted everyone from the empire but Byers was actively in the empire doc and it came exactly after we were all talking about how if scum would just claim in the empire we wouldn't go after them right away if it would help our empire wincon. I was talking about how Amni did just that in the last civ game and for the most part it worked pretty well for our empire (although I don't recall if we won or not... I don't think we did in the end).

Byers did not post for a long time before OR after that image was posted, but I wasn't paying enough attention to who/how many people were logged in. I do think it pretty much proves there are scum in AU, Medi and Legion unless diplos are saying that they have complete power lists from other empires.

That really is all there is to say about that whole situation I think.

VivaNova
Sep 12, 2009

The most epic adventure ever undertaken

Byers2142 posted:

It cuts off there

what do you mean it cuts off? Is no one else in Java mentioned because of the size of the pic?

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




VivaNova posted:

what do you mean it cuts off? Is no one else in Java mentioned because of the size of the pic?

It cuts off in the sense the cell was small and there wasn't wrapped text.

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Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




Hal Incandenza posted:

It cuts off in the sense the cell was small and there wasn't wrapped text.

I take that back... it does spill out over the cell, but the picture itself cuts off there.

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