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Blue Nation
Nov 25, 2012



Shirou's planning skills are superb.

So they assume Gil is a foreigner because of his hair but no one comments on Sakura's purple hair and eyes?

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Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Shinji has blue hair so I guess that's a normal Japanese color in the FSN universe.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Blonde hair is the sign of a foreigner in Japanese culture in general, anime hair colors like purple don't really matter.

Blue Nation
Nov 25, 2012



Sindai posted:

Shinji has blue hair so I guess that's a normal Japanese color in the FSN universe.

Ah yes, I usually forget about Shinji. Guess is plain anime logic.

Variant_Eris
Nov 2, 2014

Exhibition C: Colgate white smile


Beef Waifu posted:

Blonde hair is the sign of a foreigner in Japanese culture in general, anime hair colors like purple don't really matter.

Not to mention really weird names.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Blue Nation posted:

Shirou's planning skills are superb.

So they assume Gil is a foreigner because of his hair but no one comments on Sakura's purple hair and eyes?

Blu/Purple/Green hair colors are usually considered shades of black/dark hair.

Dessel
Feb 21, 2011



I think the part of Saber asking why Shirou wants to be a hero was in the VN as well, right? In general, having watched F/Z before playing the VN was kind of delicious because ( Fate/Zero / FSN spoiler - if you've watched F/Z you know this) Saber is essentially considered pretty much the epitome of "hero of justice" in contemporary culture, even if she has her faults. I always kinda wondered how Shirou would react about finding out having a person of such gravitas as his Servant

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I have to say that I really like some of the new music they're using. The one around 15 minutes in sounded like something from Drive.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


YggdrasilTM posted:

Blu/Purple/Green hair colors are usually considered shades of black/dark hair.

Yeah, they're not "really" those hair colors. Hollow Ataraxia has a character with hair described as red but drawn as purple, for example.

This actually leads to a minor plot hole involving one character's hair color, but it would be a big spoiler to explain it.

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013



Nate RFB posted:

I have to say that I really like some of the new music they're using. The one around 15 minutes in sounded like something from Drive.

Well I didn't expect the porn music...

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Maybe they know Gilgamesh is foreign because he's white(?).

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Maybe they know Gilgamesh is foreign because he's white(?).

He's Arabic. :eng101:

glomkettle
Sep 24, 2013




Actually no one's really sure what race the ancient Sumerians would have most resembled. There are a lot of conflicting ideas but none of them have enough evidence to really back them up.

Butt Frosted Cake
Dec 27, 2010



He's the same race as jesus, black.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



anglo saxon, like all great historical figures

Variant_Eris
Nov 2, 2014

Exhibition C: Colgate white smile


So...Genghis Khan then?

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Does it really matter? Doesn't make Gil any less powerful.

In other news, this episode was the funniest/most ship-worthy this season yet. God I hope this isn't split-cour!

Blhue
Apr 22, 2008



Fallen Rib

Grouchio posted:

Does it really matter? Doesn't make Gil any less powerful.

In other news, this episode was the funniest/most ship-worthy this season yet. God I hope this isn't split-cour!

Pretty sure it is.

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

*The Entire John Galt Speech*


Goddammit. God as much of a powerhouse Jojo and DRRRx2 will be, I hope they can fill this icy void.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Splitting the show in two is pretty much the only way Ufotable can have the animation budget they have.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011






Grouchio posted:

Goddammit. God as much of a powerhouse Jojo and DRRRx2 will be, I hope they can fill this icy void.

I thought the same thing when Stardust Crusaders went on hiatus. It's all good.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


Coming from Fate/Zero the writing in this is pretty shocking. I definitely wouldn't watch it if it wasn't for the fight scenes.

Lord Justice
Jul 24, 2012

"This god whom I created was human-made and madness, like all gods! Woman she was, and only a poor specimen of woman and ego. But I overcame myself, the sufferer; I carried my own ashes to the mountains; I invented a brighter flame for myself. And behold, then this god fled from me!"


Mercrom posted:

Coming from Fate/Zero the writing in this is pretty shocking. I definitely wouldn't watch it if it wasn't for the fight scenes.

Huh, wow. I feel the exact same way. The Fate/Zero characters may have had their issues, but I felt it was superior to a bunch of kids kind of...Faffing about and not really knowing what they were doing or what the stakes are. I haven't read the VN so maybe that changes, Caster at least suggests someone who knows what they're doing.

Also, since this has been bugging me for a while, does Heaven's Feel explain what is going on with Zouken? I can't understand what he's doing at all considering Fate/Zero. Why is Sakura allowed to go to school and have friends and stay over with Shirou? Isn't the whole point to just use her as a breeding vessel and dump her? Although the 5th War is like 50 years early, that might have something to do with it...

Also, why the hell did Zouken have Shinji of all people as a Master? The guy can't even use mana or do any magic apparently, which makes him even worse than Kariya. Why didn't Zouken just do the whole Crest Worm implantation on Shinji as well? He seems to be kind of expendable.

I'm not really looking for spoilers, just more of a yes or no if this is ever explained. I'm curious, though...The guy Kiritsugu was interrogating and shot in the leg, that was Shinji's father, right? Kariya's brother?

And yeah, the fight scenes are excellent, especially in regards to sound design.

HellCopter
Feb 9, 2012


College Slice

Heaven's Feel is entirely about Sakura and the Matous' dirty business, yeah.

I'm enjoying the anime, but I'm also kind of immersing myself in Fate/Hollow Ataraxia and rewatching Carnival Phantasm so maybe I'm just attuned to the characters right now. And I do know where this faffing about is going.

And drat am I loving the fight scenes. Seeing Berserker animated was just so cool, I didn't get a feel for how dynamic he was from the text alone.

HellCopter fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Dec 7, 2014

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


Lord Justice posted:

Huh, wow. I feel the exact same way. The Fate/Zero characters may have had their issues, but I felt it was superior to a bunch of kids kind of...Faffing about and not really knowing what they were doing or what the stakes are. I haven't read the VN so maybe that changes, Caster at least suggests someone who knows what they're doing.
It's not about competence, but about motivations. All the characterization is weak and the show doesn't make a convincing case of why the characters do the things they do.

CuLT
Sep 9, 2005



I definitely enjoyed Fate/Zero more than Fate/stay night (I've played the game too). I think it's an excellent example of a work passing through many hands and becoming better as a result. The lore developed by Nasu, the character design by Takeuchi, and a compelling drama written by Urobuchi. All comes together quite well.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Mercrom posted:

It's not about competence, but about motivations. All the characterization is weak and the show doesn't make a convincing case of why the characters do the things they do.
Whose motivations do you feel are unclear to the point of it being detrimental to the story? The only ones we really need at this point are Shirou's and Rin's since they're the main characters and I don't think it could be less clear with them.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


Nate RFB posted:

Whose motivations do you feel are unclear to the point of it being detrimental to the story? The only ones we really need at this point are Shirou's and Rin's since they're the main characters and I don't think it could be less clear with them.
I think the motivations of a lot more than two characters are important in a slow moving story like this. But the actions of the main characters aren't explained very well either. Why can't Shirou take this fight to the death seriously? Why does he still go to school even though he can't bring Saber? Why is Rin suddenly alright with trying to kill Shirou who she cares about, when she doesn't seem that willing to kill otherwise? I understand she's conflicted but come on.

I do get the general gist of the main characters but it's not nearly enough to carry the show when they are basically the only real characters.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Well there's not much risk in going to school assuming you are not :downs: and hang around after hours. In a meta-sense it's an easy way to have some of the antagonists reveal themselves and for the various main characters to interact with each other before the war gets really serious, and if Shirou didn't actually ever leave his house then basically nothing would happen in the plot.

Rin doesn't want to kill Shirou, even if you gently caress up trying to escape from her during that fight she just erases your memory or something after taking Shirou's command spells away. Rin's whole schtick is that she thinks she's this cold blooded magus but deep down doesn't have the heart for it; talking smack about how she's going to kill Shirou during their confrontation is because she is the ur-tsundere.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


Nate RFB posted:

Well there's not much risk in going to school assuming you are not :downs: and hang around after hours. In a meta-sense it's an easy way to have some of the antagonists reveal themselves and for the various main characters to interact with each other before the war gets really serious, and if Shirou didn't actually ever leave his house then basically nothing would happen in the plot.
Characters acting dumb solely because the plot demands it is not acceptable in my opinion. If you are gonna do that you need to make up an excuse motivation.

Nate RFB posted:

Rin doesn't want to kill Shirou, even if you gently caress up trying to escape from her during that fight she just erases your memory or something after taking Shirou's command spells away. Rin's whole schtick is that she thinks she's this cold blooded magus but deep down doesn't have the heart for it; talking smack about how she's going to kill Shirou during their confrontation is because she is the ur-tsundere.
In that case that scene is really badly directed because didn't look like she was trying to keep him alive at all. It looked like the equivalent of subduing someone with machine guns and hand grenades.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

Mercrom posted:

In that case that scene is really badly directed because didn't look like she was trying to keep him alive at all. It looked like the equivalent of subduing someone with machine guns and hand grenades.

Of course Rin was going easy on him. If she wanted to actually kill him she would have used Archer to do the deed.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

You can't be a hero of justice without a HS diploma. Shirou is just serious about his educational aspirations.

Lestaki
Nov 6, 2009


Hunt11 posted:

Of course Rin was going easy on him. If she wanted to actually kill him she would have used Archer to do the deed.

Archer wasn't at school, iirc, and from Rin's (accurate) perspective Archer is by no means necessary to kill Shirou at this point. It was badly framed in the sense that it definitely looked like she was trying to murder him. In the VN the bad ending to this scene makes it clear she wasn't actually trying to murder him but when her bullets are putting giant craters in walls that's not apparent in the anime, and it makes Rin look slightly unhinged.

Variant_Eris
Nov 2, 2014

Exhibition C: Colgate white smile


Hunt11 posted:

Of course Rin was going easy on him. If she wanted to actually kill him she would have used Archer to do the deed.

Or she could've attacked him without being all confrontational, thus winning a pre-emptive strike.

Lestaki posted:

In the VN the bad ending to this scene makes it clear she wasn't actually trying to murder him but when her bullets are putting giant craters in walls that's not apparent in the anime, and it makes Rin look slightly unhinged.

"No, think of all the property damage you've caused!"

Variant_Eris fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Dec 7, 2014

Lestaki
Nov 6, 2009


Uh, no. The point is that if a projectile destroys walls the viewer logically assumes it also destroys people like Shirou, so Rin comes across as someone trying to kill Shirou outright. This is especially true when she unleashes blind saturation fire through the wall of a classroom.

Mercrom
Jul 17, 2009


I still like this show because of the action but that's most of what we've got so far. I thought Fate/Zero had fairly slow pacing but at this point in the runtime pretty much all the characters had more fleshed out motivations and exhibited more agency than Shirou and Rin in this show.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It's worth noting that 90% of the story is from Shirou's perspective, with the rest being the prologue (Episode 0) and short intermissions like the scene with Shinji this week. Basically if Shirou is not actually confronting or otherwise engaging with another character in some fashion then we are not privy to their thoughts and actions. Whereas in Zero every faction is their own story.

Nate RFB fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Dec 7, 2014

Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Mercrom posted:

I still like this show because of the action but that's most of what we've got so far. I thought Fate/Zero had fairly slow pacing but at this point in the runtime pretty much all the characters had more fleshed out motivations and exhibited more agency than Shirou and Rin in this show.

Just you wait.

When poo poo hits the fan, it hits it hard.

Iretep
Nov 10, 2009


I have no idea what people mean by this being slower paced than zero. It took an entire season for the first servant to even die in zero.

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Squidster
Oct 7, 2008

✋😢Life's just better with Ominous Gloves🤗🧤


Pacing is not purely measured in deaths per second. We had character reveals, emotional reveals, conflicts of ideals, betrayals, all that poo poo in the first few episodes of Fate Zero. We also saw characters maneuvering to set up future reveals, and there was a real sense of impending action.

This show just seems to drag. I don't feel like poo poo's going to get real at any second. The mild tension invested in Rider's school mana-sucking plan sagged out in a wet fart, and it's a frustrating waste of foreshadowing. Maybe interesting things will come out of it later, but dammit, I want interesting things now.

Do you know what's going to happen next? The protagonists are going to continue going to school to grind math levels and social links until author fiat decides to spring an attack on them. We're just stuck waiting until something happens.

Additionally, all of Shirou's challenges are physical. His beliefs and nature have not been questioned, and he still hasn't really revealed a motivation more interesting than any other dimestore shonen hero. Caster and Rider seem like identical minibosses. Rin feels too inconsistent to even be psychotic. Stay Night Saber is boring and bland as the day is long.

People say the plot gets better, things heat up... but it's been 4+ hours man. There's been a lot of of show with not much to show for it.

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