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Yosuke posted:It's a matter of whether or not you need the extra summoning line. You can summon a Berserker without it if the legend is so inclined, the extra line makes it applicable to anyone though. No the extra line just sets your summon as a Berserker, any hero who qualifies for that.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:17
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Doesn't the Grail itself ultimately choose the Servants and the Masters? The summoning ritual itself is just encouraging the grail to do a certain thing, but to some extent the entire thing isn't needed. See e.g. how Shirou summons Saber.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:27
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It chooses Masters, but Servants are entirely based on the ritual. Catalysts decide the Servant easier (Shirou having Avalon stuck inside him leading to Saber, for example), buuut if one isn't used, it's based on Master personality. Kind of like how Fate/Zero Caster was summoned the way he was due to a hosed up Ritual as well.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:35
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Einander posted:The form of Rho Aias has a pretty cool inspiration: it's said that when Ajax died, a hyacinth flower bloomed where his blood hit the ground. You can get up to seven or eight blooms on a wild hyacinth, so it fits with the whole multiple-layer thing too, and some varieties do come in that sort of red-purple color. (Although it's probably just blood color + glowing.) There's some debate about whether the red flower referred to in the myths was the flower we call a hyacinth today, and Archer's Rho Aius looks a lot more like rocket larkspur (consolida ajacis) than hyacinth to me.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:40
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Yosuke posted:It chooses Masters, but Servants are entirely based on the ritual. Kariya and Sakura are good examples as well. Kariya wants to be a white-knight cuckolder so he summons Lancelot, and Sakura has sibling issues and the potential to become a inhuman monster so she summons Medusa. Shirou was able to summon Saber because of Avalon, but he had been chosen as a Master before his life was in danger (he had the bruise on his hand).
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Oct 24, 2014 21:36
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Even with a catalyst, if there's more than one possible Servant associated with the catalyst, you get the one who resembles your personality best.
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Oct 24, 2014 21:52
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Nate RFB posted:Maybe the Assassin who turned into a Berserker in Fate/Extra is an exception? Nyaa fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 00:03
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Yosuke posted:It chooses Masters, but Servants are entirely based on the ritual. Not entirely. Shirou was dreaming of Saber before he even knew there was something going on.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:07
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Causality can be wonky with the grail, so maybe the mark simply appeared before Shirou summoned Saber even though the summoning caused the mark, much like Rin's necklace served as the catalyst to summon Archer Emiya before it was linked to Shirou when she healed him with it.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:43
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Paracelsus posted:Causality can be wonky with the grail, so maybe the mark simply appeared before Shirou summoned Saber even though the summoning caused the mark, much like Rin's necklace served as the catalyst to summon Archer Emiya before it was linked to Shirou when she healed him with it. It certainly doesn't hurt that Rin has a habit of breaking reality on a regular basis while trying to pull of her own versions of Zelrecth's stuff.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:46
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AfroSquirrel posted:It certainly doesn't hurt that Rin has a habit of breaking reality on a regular basis while trying to pull of her own versions of Zelrecth's stuff. Does this actually happen that often? In Heaven's Feel, she uses the Second Magic without any screw-ups. I vaguely remember her screwing up with the Second Magic once in Hollow Ataraxia. The idea that Rin is constantly messing up reality seems like fanon to me.
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Oct 25, 2014 02:59
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Not reading spoilers for HF and F:HA so I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsWMjLWP5eE
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Oct 25, 2014 06:03
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Silver2195 posted:Does this actually happen that often? In Heaven's Feel, she uses the Second Magic without any screw-ups. I vaguely remember her screwing up with the Second Magic once in Hollow Ataraxia. The idea that Rin is constantly messing up reality seems like fanon to me. I think its more implied she tends to get too ahead of herself, Such as summoning Archer and forgetting her clocks are wrong, giving him some amnesia and the best entrance ever, Saving Shirou and forgetting she should of kept a better eye on him to find lancer once he found out he lived, and that she indeed already had an artifact from the snake skin, but never put the two together, those are just within the three days of the start from her prospective, but are easily to pick up on cause it is from her prospective
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Oct 25, 2014 06:16
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Stevefin posted:I think its more implied she tends to get too ahead of herself, Such as summoning Archer and forgetting her clocks are wrong, giving him some amnesia and the best entrance ever, Saving Shirou and forgetting she should of kept a better eye on him to find lancer once he found out he lived, and that she indeed already had an artifact from the snake skin, but never put the two together, those are just within the three days of the start from her prospective, but are easily to pick up on cause it is from her prospective Rin tends to do that in general, yes, but AfroSquirrel seemed to be talking about the Second Magic specifically.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:25
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Silver2195 posted:Does this actually happen that often? In Heaven's Feel, she uses the Second Magic without any screw-ups. I vaguely remember her screwing up with the Second Magic once in Hollow Ataraxia. The idea that Rin is constantly messing up reality seems like fanon to me. The whole route-agnostic setting of Hollow Ataraxia is suggested to be from Rin accidentally merging a bunch of parallel universes, which is a pretty major screwup. It's only referenced in passing though.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:30
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Stevefin posted:...she indeed already had an artifact from the snake skin
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Oct 25, 2014 06:35
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Gaius Marius posted:This always made me wonder if it was possible to have two of the same servants in a war. Unless there's some arbitrary restriction on that in some piece of media I haven't read, it should be, technically. iirc, servants are effectively copied from the hall of heroes (or whatever it was called) when summoned, rather than actually resurrected. It'd be kind of funny to see a war made up entirely of Fate Lancers, as he's got the qualifications to be any class but assassin. Blhue fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 06:40
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Blhue posted:Unless there's some arbitrary restriction on that in some piece of media I haven't read, it should be, technically. iirc, servants are effectively copied from the hall of heroes (or whatever it was called) when summoned, rather than actually resurrected. It'd be kind of funny to see a war made up entirely of Fate Lancers, as he's got the qualifications to be any class but assassin. Yeah them being copies was what got me thinking about it. I suppose special cases like Arturia can be discounted. Although clones of the same servant in one war is not nearly as interesting a hypothetical as Kiritsugu somehow being unable to summon Saber and instead summoning Archer.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:12
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Servent could be summon at different stage/age of their life that match the class and master better, so it would be interesting. Pre/post insane version of f/z caster as saber, post enlightened fate/extra assassin as an old man lancer, pre-fallen f/n rider in her goddess form, saber alter, etc.
Nyaa fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 14:21
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Is that how the Berserker fight went in the original or did they change things somewhat? i ask because it seemed kinda unfamiliar, but maybe my memory's just to blame e: It was super good either way tho
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Oct 25, 2014 18:26
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Newest ep of UBW is up and, as predicted, it's all the Berserker fight. Ufotable is taking a bit of creative liberty with the original material, giving Ilya enough battle capability to drive Rin into a corner, and having Saber use Strike Air: Hammer of the Wind King from Fate/Zero to take one of Berserker's lives. Archer's Caladbolg II, in turn, seems to have no effect, making Ilya's comment that Archer interests her more than Saber seem knda strange. Animation was top-notch, though.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:28
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Aumanor posted:Newest ep of UBW is up and, as predicted, it's all the Berserker fight. Ufotable is taking a bit of creative liberty with the original material, giving Ilya enough battle capability to drive Rin into a corner, and having Saber use Strike Air: Hammer of the Wind King from Fate/Zero to take one of Berserker's lives. Archer's Caladbolg II, in turn, seems to have no effect, making Ilya's comment that Archer interests her more than Saber seem knda strange. Animation was top-notch, though. What? That's an odd change considering that Archer being able to fight was the diverging factor in the VN. 
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Oct 25, 2014 18:33
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meh no effect is a little much, it pretty much nukes the area and is enough to have Ilya call Berserker off also Crunchyroll spells Illya with two ls and it bothers me
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Oct 25, 2014 18:34
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Xoidanor posted:What? That's an odd change considering that Archer being able to fight was the diverging factor in the VN. Well, it still seems to make Ilya decide that it's way past her bedtime and she's going home, so perhaps it killed Berserker for the second time this night, and ufotable just completely failed to convay it. I don't know, man  Cake Attack posted:meh no effect is a little much, it pretty much nukes the area and is enough to have Ilya call Berserker off Well, yeah, but in VN it leaves Berserker without half of his skin, while here he just kinda shrugs it off. Which in light of Rin saying that it was an A-class Noble Phantasm makes even less sense, since God Hand can only nullify attacks up to B-Class. And Invisible Air is only C-class, so it shouldn't even leave a scratch. Uggh.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:44
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Cake Attack posted:meh no effect is a little much, it pretty much nukes the area and is enough to have Ilya call Berserker off
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Oct 25, 2014 18:45
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Illya is an extremely strong magus, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that she can drive Rin in a corner. I don't remember how that scene played out in the VN, though.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:51
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KaneTW posted:Illya is an extremely strong magus, so it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that she can drive Rin in a corner. I don't remember how that scene played out in the VN, though. I can't remember Ilya ever using her magic outside of bad ends in the VN.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:52
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someone posted some screens from the VN elsewhere and Archer's Caladbolg does the exact same thing there as it does here? Rin even has her line about how he's unhurt after taking a hit from an A-Rank phantasm.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:54
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In the VN Berserker uses his sword to deflect the arrow before it hits his body, the implication being that unlike all the previous arrows he felt it was a threat if it directly hit his body.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:56
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Aumanor posted:Well, yeah, but in VN it leaves Berserker without half of his skin, The "half of his skin" scene is in the forest battle in Fate. And Rin did it, not Archer.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:03
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YggdrasilTM posted:I think that you are not remembering well. Huuh. Well, my face is pretty red right now.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:08
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I'm pretty sure Archer wasn't even aiming for Berserker in this case, but for Shirou and Saber. I was also about to comment how we won't see Ilya much later, but then we had that scene with Kirei.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:27
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Cake Attack posted:meh no effect is a little much, it pretty much nukes the area and is enough to have Ilya call Berserker off My understanding is that Ilya is worried because she realises she's facing an opponent that is destroying priceless irreplaceable Noble Phantasms without giving a drat.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:29
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He was aiming for Berserker, but he didn't mind Shiro and Saber getting swept in the blast too. Really, the entire fight is great since it shows off all three servants spectacularly and the anime did a great job of escalating each assault from Archer. I also appreciated them having Saber just loving tear through Berserker, it was cool. I think it's weird though, that they didn't reveal him as Heracles, but chances are they will talk about it next episode or use it as a big reveal for later.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:30
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Beef Waifu posted:He was aiming for Berserker, but he didn't mind Shiro and Saber getting swept in the blast too. Really, the entire fight is great since it shows off all three servants spectacularly and the anime did a great job of escalating each assault from Archer. I also appreciated them having Saber just loving tear through Berserker, it was cool. They could be saving it for Nine Bullet Revolver...
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Oct 25, 2014 19:36
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That would be a weird time to pull it out, but still sick. They'll definitely do it before Gil gets involved as they're going to need to justify why Enkidu is wrecking Berserker's poo poo.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:37
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That moment in particular is the moment I'm most looking forward to seeing animated. The way it plays out in the VN is so brutal, that it can't end up anything else except awesome. I wonder if they're going to do a callback-like scene of Berserker nearly chopping Gil in half, but the chains stop him at the last moment.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:42
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Illya (Ill-lia) is how it's always been pronounced so the name change doesn't really bother me. If Ufotable are going to be adding scenes like breakdance Berserker and Illya actually using magic then I understand why they split UBW into two seasons a lot more. Next episode we should be able to see if they can nail the cheesy slice of life tension with Shirou's house turning into a hotel. Hype for more Taiga.
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Oct 25, 2014 19:50
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Fangz posted:They could be saving it for Nine Bullet Revolver... That's an HF scene, isn't it?
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Oct 25, 2014 19:53
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Blhue posted:That's an HF scene, isn't it? yeah but they are adapting that later You're right though that they probably wouldn't leave that information out of what ostensibly will work as a standalone series
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Oct 25, 2014 19:54
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