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Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

Hair-up Gil acts like such an rear end 'cause he's negging Saber.

Hair-down Gil is so overconfident he fights Shirou without bothering to put his armor on.

So basically none of it is an act.

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Kubla Khan
Jun 20, 2014


Raenir Salazar posted:

To what extent is Gilgamesh's arrogance an act? Whenever he's got his hair down he seems to act more casually, not withstanding Kid!Gil who acts fairly down to earth as well.

I think his character was just what it was. Imagine a man who owned the world and grew to be the most powerful servant. It's only natural that he felt entitled to everything. E.g. Saber to him was just another thing that he had to have.

He acted casually (like, around Kirei) only when there was nothing to threaten his sense of entitlement so he could just chill and have fun. Kirei wanted nothing for himself and by extension, nothing that would belong to Gil - other than to hurt others, that is. Gil wanted the same thing - if he couldn't have everything, he'd rather let it burn. They were basically soulmates.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


Raenir Salazar posted:

To what extent is Gilgamesh's arrogance an act? Whenever he's got his hair down he seems to act more casually

Scrree posted:

Hair-down Gil is so overconfident he fights Shirou without bothering to put his armor on.

Kubla Khan posted:

He acted casually (like, around Kirei) only when there was nothing to threaten his sense of entitlement so he could just chill and have fun.



Gil loves chilling out casually without his armor.

Liffrea
Jun 16, 2013

Your gacha-bragging struck a nerve and accidentally set off my self-defense instincts. Sorry about that.

Kubla Khan posted:

I think his character was just what it was. Imagine a man who owned the world and grew to be the most powerful servant. It's only natural that he felt entitled to everything. E.g. Saber to him was just another thing that he had to have.

He acted casually (like, around Kirei) only when there was nothing to threaten his sense of entitlement so he could just chill and have fun. Kirei wanted nothing for himself and by extension, nothing that would belong to Gil - other than to hurt others, that is. Gil wanted the same thing - if he couldn't have everything, he'd rather let it burn. They were basically soulmates.

It's not so much that Gilgamesh wanted to destroy everything because he couldn't have it, it's that he wanted to destroy everything because he had decided the current state of humanity was ugly and weak. That's why he wanted to use the Grail to cull all but the strongest in order to "reform" humanity into a superior state, more like the way humans were when he ruled. That, and also because incarnated Gilgamesh=Gilgamesh's mind and personality automatically aligns itself to whatever the current mindset of humanity happens to be. Humans are hateful and destructive=Gil becomes hateful and destructive.

re: Gil's arrogance, like everyone else has said, it's never an act. If he's with someone he likes and respects, like Hakuno Kishinami (his master in Fate/Extra CCC) he'll relax to the point where he gets extremely chatty, starts making bad puns and jokes and tells Hakuno secrets about himself, but the arrogance is always there. Even in late game CCC, after Hakuno's proven themselves willing to die for him and Gilgamesh completely respects and accepts them to the point where he will use Ea simply if Hakuno tells him to, he's still ordering them around:

quote:

Gilgamesh: This is extremely unfortunate. Even with the appropriate garment, we cannot begin if we have no place to swim. Hakuno, do something about this.

Even if you tell me to do “something” about it…A place to swim…for that, I think there was a pool somewhere at the school, but…

Gilgamesh: You intend to tell me to tolerate a seedy water tank like that? If you wish to satisfy me…indeed, you would need to prepare an Thrilling Splash Time level facility. That would be good.

Thrilling Splash Time? What’s that? It sounds like the name of an all-weather indoor water park sort of facility.

Gilgamesh: What. Did they not have those in your era? Well, we didn’t have them in Uruk either. Thrilling Splash Time is the paradise of water I once personally planned out. It is the height of aquatic above water architecture.

The king’s red eyes shine as he speaks. After that, over a period of tens of minutes I heard in great detail what an amazing place Thrilling Splash Time was…

(Thrilling Splash Time is kid Gil's water park in Hollow Ataraxia)

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

That sounds hilarious and awesome! Why can't we have more of that. :(

Shyrka
Feb 10, 2005

Small Boss likes to spin!

nothing to see here

Myurton
Jan 2, 2004

I <3 Asuka,
omg anime fag

Because no one seems to want to bring a translated version of Fate/Extra CCC to north america or europe.

Also you should never pick Gil in that game as your first servant cause he kinda spoils the entire plot of the game, since he seems to have knowledge of what is actually going on and will mention stuff all the time to ruin the story.

Myurton fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Nov 17, 2014

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


To be fair, it's not hard to see why.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Pick Gil because not only does he relentlessly spoil the story, but he just doesn't give a poo poo and it's so great.

I love him.

Myurton
Jan 2, 2004

I <3 Asuka,
omg anime fag

Oh I agree Gil is great, but I just don't want the story ruined the first time through. Also this scene with Gil is pure gold.

Gil: "Behold my greatness!!!"

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Anyone who doesn't like Gil is a busta. :colbert:

I was going back and reading the LP of :fsn: to jog my memory since it's been like 4 years (jesus christ it's honestly hard to believe it's been that long), and honestly the thing that jumps out at me the most so far is that Fate isn't that bad. It's the worst route of the VN, but that's less of a statement on Fate's quality, and more of one on UBW and HF's quality; there's a lot of really great scenes in there.

Like Shirou beating the gently caress out of Shinji.

(Speaking of, why the hell does Shirou just abruptly start melting after he hits the ground in this bad end? :psyduck: The only thing that makes even a little sense is Avalon kicking in and trying to heal him, but it doesn't sound anything like the other times they bring that up.)

rocketbrah
Sep 24, 2003

it's peanut butter
⚡ MORPHIN' TIME ⚡


Is it that he's being melted by Rider's bounded field?

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Fort_Andromeda

"Victims within the barrier are dissolved into blood as if they were inside a stomach, and their magical energy is given to Rider or her master."

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



SALT CURES HAM posted:

Anyone who doesn't like Gil is a busta. :colbert:

I was going back and reading the LP of :fsn: to jog my memory since it's been like 4 years (jesus christ it's honestly hard to believe it's been that long), and honestly the thing that jumps out at me the most so far is that Fate isn't that bad. It's the worst route of the VN, but that's less of a statement on Fate's quality, and more of one on UBW and HF's quality; there's a lot of really great scenes in there.

Like Shirou beating the gently caress out of Shinji.

(Speaking of, why the hell does Shirou just abruptly start melting after he hits the ground in this bad end? :psyduck: The only thing that makes even a little sense is Avalon kicking in and trying to heal him, but it doesn't sound anything like the other times they bring that up.)

It's his reality marble that starts to "heal" him turning him into swords.
For some reason Avalon does not interfere with UBW, so every time it goes crazy you die for selfswording

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Things got out of control in the UBW thread but it still needs to be understood that Caster and Lancer are the best looking Type Moons.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day




I am trying very desperately to imagine Kiritsugu attending a parent-teacher conference.

HellCopter
Feb 9, 2012


College Slice

jellycat posted:



I am trying very desperately to imagine Kiritsugu attending a parent-teacher conference.

Hey, Kiritsugu calmed down enough at the end of his life to have Taiga over on the regular and die smiling.
In other F/HA news, I got a scene where Saber yelled "I refuse to wear any underwear not picked out by Shirou!", these scenes can be even weirder than the Kagetsu Tohya ones.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

How different is Realta Nua compared to Seorin's LP? I only really have the time to crunch through it at work and thus can't install the game; is there an errata for which sections to reread?

HellCopter
Feb 9, 2012


College Slice

I believe Seorin italicized the days which are different in Realta Nua, and posted those version instead.
e: oh apparently he just lied or something

HellCopter fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Nov 21, 2014

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Raenir Salazar posted:

How different is Realta Nua compared to Seorin's LP? I only really have the time to crunch through it at work and thus can't install the game; is there an errata for which sections to reread?
Seorin didn't actually feature any of the replacement/new scenes for one, unless you count Last Episode. The version he LPed was the original hackneyed hybrid patch that integrated some but not all of the RN additions (some new music and CGs) and none of the entirely new or edited content.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


How much does the full version of RN actually change?

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I don't think there are that many story changes all told, besides the obvious ones needed to allow it to be released on the PS2. A handful of lines or scenes were either omitted or changed, including Zouken's worms' design and even some of Shirou's more sexist statements in Fate. Obviously any reference to the removed/changed scenes had to be altered so that they made sense. And if you were ever playing the original RN patch and encountered a random line that wasn't voiced then that was likely something else that was not present in RN but not actually removed by the patch. Or an error in the voice patch in the first place; everything about the original patches was like fitting a square peg into a round hole and it wasn't as smooth as it could have been.

The music and special effects also got revamped/enhanced in a lot of places, which the original RN patch couldn't really convey. I mean it had some of the new music but IIRC there were some programming difficulties (for the original patch) in getting all of the new music in, and of course it's not like they could just insert new special effects in the first place so they just kind of reused ones from the original game where appropriate.

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013



Jeez Caster, stop spoiling the big twist...

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.

:colbert:


I wonder how many people will look up Caladbolg and think Archer is Fergus mac Róich or Ailill mac Máta.

Iretep
Nov 10, 2009


Only guess I've heard people make of archer so far is he's some japanese hero nobody has heard about. Which is surprisingly accurate.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Kojirou's not quite as good looking as Cu, but he's a close second and still my favorite of the dude Servants characterwise aside of Alex. Like, I just love the whole thing where while everyone else is King Shithead with the Ancient Sword of Asskicking, he's just some peasant gently caress who swung his sword so many times reality broke and he achieved part of the 2nd Magic with 100% mundane skill and tools. :allears:

You can also go chill out with him at night in HA which is fun.

Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Nov 23, 2014

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004





College Slice

The Tsubame Gaeshi ruled hard and perfectly conveyed the 'what the gently caress was that'-feeling you think it'd make. The pre-death image Saber saw/felt makes me think of Gae Bolg more though since that's a causality-breaking weapon and the TG just bends physics/time.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


I finally finished Fate/hollow ataraxia after ~33 hours. I knew what I was in for with FSN, but I wasn't expecting HA to be nearly that big.

I bought Fate/Extra, but Persona Q will probably be monopolizing my handheld time for the foreseeable future. After playing through FSN and HA, and watching Fate/Zero and Carnival Phantasm, I think I've earned myself a break anyway.

Well, I'll still be following Unlimited Blade Works of course, so.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

I'm just reading Seorin's LP at work, sadly seems like I'll be missing some of the new content until I have time to try out RN. :(

Hommando
Mar 2, 2012


Did Assassin use Tsubame Gaeshi twice in UBW? The reason Saber was able to dodge it during the second fight was because she had bent his sword. She shouldn't have been able to just jump to the side to avoid it.

Randomzx
Jul 26, 2007


Hommando posted:

Did Assassin use Tsubame Gaeshi twice in UBW? The reason Saber was able to dodge it during the second fight was because she had bent his sword. She shouldn't have been able to just jump to the side to avoid it.

In the VN the first Tsubame Gaeshi was an incomplete one since the steps wasn't wide enough for him to have the proper stance/footing to add the third slash effectively.

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

Assassin only uses Tsubame Gaeshi twice in the Visual Novel; the first, incomplete one in Fate, and then the one during the duel with Saber at the end of UBW.

I'm guessing Ufotable added it to the anime for the same reason they had Berserker die and use God Hand in the graveyard, to show off Noble Phantasms to show watchers that readers would already know about by playing Fate.

Randomzx
Jul 26, 2007


No, in the UBW VN route, she DEFINITELY faced the technique twice, the narrative even says so. They just didn't show the fight again in UBW and focused on the Archer vs Caster in the VN.


here, a direct quote from the final fight between Saber and Assassin in UBW.

quote:

She has experienced the move before.
…The previous one only had an arc to surround his enemy and a vertical slash.
That is why she was able to avoid it and live up to this day.

http://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update%20228/

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Pierson posted:

The Tsubame Gaeshi ruled hard and perfectly conveyed the 'what the gently caress was that'-feeling you think it'd make. The pre-death image Saber saw/felt makes me think of Gae Bolg more though since that's a causality-breaking weapon and the TG just bends physics/time.
I think that was just meant to be Saber's combat instincts kicking in and telling her that Assassin's next move would kill her.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry



Oh god drat it, after all the praise I give you new RN patch you still have this poo poo in here.

I think this is actually the first time I've gone through the prologue/Fate with voices. The original voice patch originally dropped I think around the time mirror-moon's UBW or HF patches came out.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

Diarmuid's main spear bypasses mana, how well would that work out against Hercules's 12 lives? Some servants like Lancer from FSN seem to have very overpowered ultimate abilities and then some other just make me go Huh?

Lestaki
Nov 6, 2009


Raenir Salazar posted:

Diarmuid's main spear bypasses mana, how well would that work out against Hercules's 12 lives? Some servants like Lancer from FSN seem to have very overpowered ultimate abilities and then some other just make me go Huh?

His strength and his phantasms aren't at A rank so I'm pretty sure it does absolutely nothing to God Hand's immunity to attacks below that level, mana negation or not?

The more realistic answer is 'however well would be convenient for the plot'.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

Yeah if we put plot aside it really does seem like some Servants just have some really bad match ups or abilities that just won't be useful unless they're fighting a really particular type of Servant.

On the bright side it does seem like if you do summon a really overpowered Servant like Gilgamesh or Hercules either its personality will screw you over or is just too powerful to provide sufficient mana to but oh jeez this universe loves its "exceptions".

Runa
Feb 13, 2011






Man, the UBW thread's going to have a lot of egg on their faces by the end of this broadcast.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Berserker shows how I feel about the UBW thread.

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Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Here is your weekly reminder that Shiro owns.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_CjygdKQs8

TY for your patronage.

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