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Dessel
Feb 21, 2011



In the latest episode of Fate, did Shirou channel some serious Archer in the end in terms of body language? When he says "It wasn't a big deal", and puts his hand over to his hip.

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SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Hommando posted:

I don't know the context of this conversation, but that's pretty sad. Shinji is so lovely that Sakura doesn't consider him family.

I, uh, have you played HF?

Hommando
Mar 2, 2012


SALT CURES HAM posted:

I, uh, have you played HF?

That image seems to imply that Sakura doesn't consider Shinji her brother unless she is forced to deal with him or is reminded of him.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006



So uh, what did Rider ride? I was semi-confused earlier before they had said who was who because I thought she seemed like a Caster, until well...Caster showed up.

Maybe I will have to read the stupid VN one of these days after all. :sigh:

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

The legendary pegasus was born from Medusa's headless corpse. :ssh:

Stevefin
Sep 30, 2013



a kitten posted:

So uh, what did Rider ride? I was semi-confused earlier before they had said who was who because I thought she seemed like a Caster, until well...Caster showed up.

Maybe I will have to read the stupid VN one of these days after all. :sigh:

Rider rode a Pegasus, though she never rode anything, so it was just that she had to ride something, like how Iskander got that war chariot along with his personal horse

Blhue
Apr 22, 2008



Fallen Rib

Rider's identity doesn't get revealed until HF, so unless you want to wait, do that. Or someone here can spoil you. Her identity is probably the biggest stretch, as while she was associated with what she rides when we see her riding in the VN, I don't think she was really known for riding said thing.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010



wrong thread?

A Pegasus though

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

Hommando posted:

That image seems to imply that Sakura doesn't consider Shinji her brother unless she is forced to deal with him or is reminded of him.

The context of that scene is (spoilered because it's a pretty good joke in H/A) Sakura, Illya, and Saber are having a 'Best Little Sister for Shirou' contest with Taiga and Rin judging. The main gag is that Illya is unexpected bad, Saber unexpected good, and Sakura says things that are a step too dark or gets interrupted/harassed by Rin. Also, everyone's somewhat drunk.

So her saying "If I had an older-brother' does not mean she has disowned Shinji.

a kitten
Aug 5, 2006



Naw, I know this is the general type-moon and spoiler thread and I know who she is from somewhere or another, but forgot all about the Medusa's head >>Pegasus thing. That is a pretty big stretch but whatever, we already got Arturia so anything goes really.

Spoilers aren't a thing that bothers me, so after watching Zero and Carnival Phantasia everything else I know has been from reading things in this forum or just googling poo poo. Up until recently actually going thru or even reading the let's play of the VN itself hasn't had much interest.

a kitten fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Nov 30, 2014

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



The VN remains a very good thing, you really should play that Realta Nua PC release.

Then you can also play HA, which is amazing.



Also at one point you engage in a Yugiohesque card battle against someone over the end of the world.

FrantzX
Jan 27, 2007


No mention of Medusa-rella?

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



FrantzX posted:

No mention of Medusa-rella?

I don't have a screenshot for it but yes that's also good.

Also I just found Takeuchi: The Scene. I know that it's called a fandisk for a reason but boy howdy.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011






Hommando posted:

That image seems to imply that Sakura doesn't consider Shinji her brother unless she is forced to deal with him or is reminded of him.

Just warning you that this is the free-for-all spoilers thread.

Without going into details, that posted bit with Sakura and Rin is really, really dark humor.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Scrree posted:

The context of that scene is (spoilered because it's a pretty good joke in H/A) Sakura, Illya, and Saber are having a 'Best Little Sister for Shirou' contest with Taiga and Rin judging. The main gag is that Illya is unexpected bad, Saber unexpected good, and Sakura says things that are a step too dark or gets interrupted/harassed by Rin. Also, everyone's somewhat drunk.

So her saying "If I had an older-brother' does not mean she has disowned Shinji.

Also, she doesn't have an older brother, she has an older sister.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

You know, Aiko...
I really wanted to be killed by you.


SALT CURES HAM posted:

Also, she doesn't have an older brother, she has an older sister.

Actually, I wanted to ask the Matou's. I never really got their actual family tree. Karia was the oldest of the Matou kids before he left the family right? Then it was the middle brother that Kiritsugu tortures to find out where Iri was, then Shinji, right? I can't remember if they were all actually Zouken's kids or if he had any others considering how old he is.

.Clash
Apr 10, 2009


The Archer piece reflected in Shirou's pawn in the next episode preview was a nice touch.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


AlternateNu posted:

Actually, I wanted to ask the Matou's. I never really got their actual family tree. Karia was the oldest of the Matou kids before he left the family right? Then it was the middle brother that Kiritsugu tortures to find out where Iri was, then Shinji, right? I can't remember if they were all actually Zouken's kids or if he had any others considering how old he is.

The one Kiritsugu tortures (Byakuya) is actually Shinji's dad and Kariya's older brother, but Kariya was the only one who had any sort of aptitude for magic. They're Zouken's descendants but not his sons. I think the Matous have constantly been raised to believe he is some relative or another while he's concealed his actual status, but some of them have suspected who he actually is because his name keeps popping up in the family register or something.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



I was more under the impression that he just always pretends to be the grandfather in official documents so he can continue to control the family fortune. The Matous are well aware of what he is, given the whole thing where he's made of worms and their variety of magecraft is really just couched in using parts of his body. Even the ones who can't actually use magic, Shinji and Byakuya, still know that (Shinji openly calls him a monster at some point and Byakuya was present at Sakura's "training" sessions).

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


So basically they're an ordinary-ish family being controlled by an immortal worm monster posing as their eternal patriarch. Which almost explains how screwed up Shinji is.

Stevefin
Sep 30, 2013



Clarste posted:

So basically they're an ordinary-ish family being controlled by an immortal worm monster posing as their eternal patriarch. Which almost explains how screwed up Shinji is.

The funny part the VN states when Shinji found out it would be Sakura, and not him who gets to play house heir, broke him into the boy we see now

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

Shinji thought he was going to be Harry Potter when he grew up, but then he found out he was actually Cousin Dudley. Also Aunt Petunia died of liver cirrhosis and Uncle Vernon made him rape Harry.

And I guess Harry shacks up with Neville and is Draco's sister in this metaphor? Man, Heaven's Feel is weirder then I remember.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



I like how the type moon self-parody hole is so deep that the only antagonist from FSN that hasn't been defanged is Zouken (well, also Skeletor but who ever gave a poo poo about him). poo poo, Gilgamesh has journeyed from two dimensional rapist to a goddamn player character.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Clarste posted:

So basically they're an ordinary-ish family being controlled by an immortal worm monster posing as their eternal patriarch. Which almost explains how screwed up Shinji is.

This also almost in Shinji's credit in that apparently even Shinji thinks Zouken is a monster.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


When a dude is so into rape worms that he decides that he wants to live forever as a colony of rape worms there might be something wrong with his head.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Shinji is probably one of the least lovely people Mato bloodline-wise and that's not to say Shinji is a saint, that's to say the Mato's were all worse people than Shinji in every way, somehow.

Iretep
Nov 10, 2009


Wait how is he better than Kariya Matou? The guy at least tried to do good.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

The dude basically devoted his life to trying to bang a girl, even when said girl got married and had two kids.

And he did say Shinji was "one of" the least!

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Yeah, Kariya is one character I've never really gotten the huge liking for. I understand that his goals are at least selfless, but he's so completely deluded about Aoi that it goes all the way past selfless and back to selfish again. Tokiomi may not be a great man, but Aoi is happy with him.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Yeah, I never liked Kariya and by the time he had Lancelot attack Gilgamesh solely to show off to Tokiomi I was on board with someone pushing his poo poo in far more than I ever was with Shinji. Not to say Shinji's not a piece of poo poo, but I found Kariya an easier character to want to see get punched in the face, which sucks since the dude had good intentions and Shinji is just pure scumbag.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


He was the only person remotely interested in helping Sakura. It wasn't really for her sake obviously, but that's still more than Sakura's rear end in a top hat dad who knew what Matou magic was like ever did.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


^ yeah that

People like Nice Guys and Kariya definitely was kinda one and the worms didn't help either. Still, his scenes with Sakura in F/Z were touching, at least to me, because he knew how lovely Zouken was and he had the decency to be like, "holy poo poo the kids are not alright" while Tokiomi was just, "but the Root man."

Compendium fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Nov 30, 2014

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Serious Frolicking posted:

When a dude is so into rape worms that he decides that he wants to live forever as a colony of rape worms there might be something wrong with his head.

That's kind of backwards: he wanted to live forever to accomplish his goal, but was so bad at living forever that he ended up as rape worms instead of a vampire or whatever. And because being rape worms screwed up his mind so much, he forgot what his goal was. It's sort of tragic, technically.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

There are purposefully parallels drawn between HF Shirou and Zouken. They both started losing their memories over time, it's just that Shirou is insane and internalized who he was fighting for so hard it didn't matter that he lost his mind.

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

I'm pretty sure Tokiomi didn't know about Zouken's worm-vampirism shtick. The entire reason he gave Sakura to the Matous was to let her develop her skills as an inheritor, but Zouken doesn't have inheritors, only puppets.

That's also why Kariya was kind of a poo poo despite having a lot of sympathetic scenes - he subconsciously avoided any plan to save Sakura that didn't involve killing Tokiomi and marrying Aoi because he wanted that more then he wanted to save her.

Also, the new H/A OPs might be a bit mediocre, but drat if Sakura doesn't look badass in this shot

Scrree fucked around with this message at 11:21 on Nov 30, 2014

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013


Scrree posted:

I'm pretty sure Tokiomi didn't know about Zouken's worm-vampirism shtick. The entire reason he gave Sakura to the Matous was to let her develop her skills as an inheritor, but Zouken doesn't have inheritors, only puppets.

That's also why Kariya was kind of a poo poo despite having a lot of sympathetic scenes - he subconsciously avoided any plan to save Sakura that didn't involve killing Tokiomi and marrying Aoi because he wanted that more then he wanted to save her.

I don't think Tokiomi knew that Zouken never intended to make Sakura a heir and was turning her into a disposable grail vessel for the next Grail War and would definitely have some issues with that, but I bet he knew all about Zouken rape worms and what it takes to grant the Matou magic to someone and just considered it a fair price for becoming the heir of a major Magi family.

He knew that Zouken existed, he wasn't surprised about Kariya's use of rape worms when they fought each other, Matou family was living on Tohsaka lands for probably hundreds of years and were close allies and most importantly, I really doubt Tokiomi would give his daughter to a Magi family if he wasn't sure that she would be getting the real deal and that they possessed a powerful magecraft that she would inherit.

Basically Tokiomi was a dick.

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011



Lt. Lizard posted:

Basically Tokiomi was a dick.

That's his middle name, backstory, modus operandi and defining character feature. Incidentally it's also the quote written on his grave.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



I think the thing with Kariya is that originally he actually did care far more about Sakura than anything else, but going through the worm training and then spending the war being torn apart by supporting Lancelot made him go loving nuts and start having delusions and Aoi and such.

Fyi Tokiomi is, at minimum (assuming he didn't know Zouken's whole shtick), a callous human being but Aoi is also horrible, a fact I think people forget just because she does little besides being strangled. She could have pushed to keep Sakura but pretty clearly didn't!

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

There really aren't any winners in the whole debacle, except for maybe Rin and Sakura themselves once they were finally given the chance to patch it all up on their own.

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Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Zouken won, for the most part.

As a side note, something I respect about Zouken is that he was never content to just summon a powerful servant and pray for victory, like everyone else always did. He thought bigger, and considered the Holy Grail ritual itself as a tool he could use. His plan to create a fake grail and take possession of that kind of makes Kiritsugu and the Einzberns and Tokiomi and everyone else seem like complete chumps. You have to respect him for taking Sun Tzu to heart and winning the war before even encountering the enemy.

Too bad he was a rapey dickworm.

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