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Pierson
Oct 31, 2004





College Slice

Aoko's granddad got there and out again so he managed to get past it, and whoever created the First Magic did so as well. Maybe if your magecraft is so good that you're essentially knocking on the root's gates you know the counterforce is coming and can prepare to fend it off.

Assuming it worked as intended the Grail War probably could have done it, since the wish would basically be "I wish I was at the root" (or if you were an Einzbern "I wish I had back the parts of the Fourth Magic I lost") and it would just happen, not giving Alaya or Gaia a chance to stop them.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


AtheistMantis posted:

Then does this mean the Heaven's Feel ritual was always doomed to fail?

No, the Heaven's Feel ritual was devised explicitly to get around the counter force. And during the HF route it, in fact, succeeds.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004





College Slice

[image of red-cloaked person shaking fist angrily at sky]

i'll get you next time pesky mages

next tiiiiiiiime

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Pierson posted:

Aoko's granddad got there and out again so he managed to get past it, and whoever created the First Magic did so as well. Maybe if your magecraft is so good that you're essentially knocking on the root's gates you know the counterforce is coming and can prepare to fend it off.


From what I got, Aoko's grandfather discovered this new, fifth path to the root, but he never used. Only the magus reaching the root using a new path for the first time can obtain True Magic, after all. After that, others people can reach the Root by using it but they will not obtain True Magic.

taser rates
Mar 30, 2010


The nature of the red shade is one of those things I'd expect to be expanded on if Nasu ever gets around to doing the other two parts of Mahoyo (haha), considering Aoko herself wasn't sure why it didn't attack her when it could have.

poe meater
Feb 17, 2011


Is kirititsu's time magic stuff exclusive to him? Have they turned him into a servant yet

Bakanogami
Dec 31, 2004




Grimey Drawer

poe meater posted:

Is kirititsu's time magic stuff exclusive to him? Have they turned him into a servant yet

His family crest dealt with time magic, but IIRC it's implied in the books that he's seriously twisting it to suit his own needs in ways his predecessors would be appalled at, and while he taught Shirou a little magic, he couldn't pass on his crest even if he wanted to. So his Double Accel/etc magic is essentially unique to him.

And yes he is a servant, introduced in the Fate Zero FGO event. Technically the servant Kiritsugu is a Kiritsugu who never met Irisviel and participated in the Holy Grail war, and eventually made the same bargain with the world as Shirou did to become a counter guardian like Archer.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Kiritsugu's father, Noritaka, was interested in using the family magic for figurative research. He was researching immortality, which is why he had the dead apostles around. Then everything went to poo poo.

Presumably the rest of the Emiya family followed a similar path, using the time magic for research and to try and achieve some grand end. Kiritsugu was probably the first one to use it for combat.

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Magi are NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS and would be appalled at using their arts for something as base as combat, so yeah.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Endorph posted:

Kiritsugu's father, Noritaka, was interested in using the family magic for figurative research. He was researching immortality, which is why he had the dead apostles around. Then everything went to poo poo.
If I remember well, Noritaka was a considered a genius and his idea to reach the Root was to manipulate his own personal time bubble until he reached the end of the universe.
The "immortality" part of the research was only to have enough time to complete this REAL research.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Kyte posted:

Magi are NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS and would be appalled at using their arts for something as base as combat, so yeah.

Magi are perfectly fine with using magic for combat. It is, after all, a demonstration not only of personal skill and talent but of the accumulated prowess of their lineage. And nerds sure love showing off to other nerds.

poe meater
Feb 17, 2011


That's cool. They should've done a post fatezero version though.

died young, he's a hero to shiro and has a big pistola. checks out on the hero list, good enough for me

poe meater fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Aug 8, 2017

Bakanogami
Dec 31, 2004




Grimey Drawer

poe meater posted:

That's cool. They should've done a post fatezero version though.

died young, he's a hero to shiro and has a big pistola. checks out on the hero list, good enough for me

I mean I think technically he might come from post-fate zero? It's a bit murky on when he fell completely, made the contract with the world, and died. It could have been after the 4th holy grail war, or it could have been in the years before it when he was continuing to be a vigilante instead of hanging out with his wife and daughter. In the FGO event he's summoned to the 4th war in a full-on counter guardian capacity, but we already know from the other EMIYA that time doesn't mean poo poo to the throne of souls.

In any event, Chaldea is very awkward in FGO because we now have Shirou (EMIYA archer), Evil Shirou (Angra Mainyu), Evil Shirou #2 (EMIYA alter), Kiritsugu (EMIYA assassin), Irisviel, Ilya, Tohsaka (Ishtar), and Taiga (Jaguarman) all living together under one roof, but none of them actually know each other because they're all from alternate universes or possessed by gods.

I'm hoping that when the Heaven's Feel movie comes out we get a tie-in event that gives us an Emiya Lily servant that's just plain old Shirou.

Bakanogami fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Aug 8, 2017

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


Kyte posted:

Magi are NERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS and would be appalled at using their arts for something as base as combat, so yeah.

And then there is Rin who fantasizes about using 3 different pseudo-True Magics and the strongest familiar in the world to beat the poo poo out of all the mages and take their money.

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004





College Slice

YggdrasilTM posted:

The "immortality" part of the research was only to have enough time to complete this REAL research.
Also Zouken's rationale as I recall. I'm beginning to detect a trend.

Trihugger posted:

And then there is Rin who fantasizes about using 3 different pseudo-True Magics and the strongest familiar in the world to beat the poo poo out of all the mages and take their money.
Rin is our girl.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Conspiratiorist posted:

Magi are perfectly fine with using magic for combat. It is, after all, a demonstration not only of personal skill and talent but of the accumulated prowess of their lineage. And nerds sure love showing off to other nerds.

well they'd be mad he had no interest in pursuing the root

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Pierson posted:

Also Zouken's rationale as I recall. I'm beginning to detect a trend.

It's explicitly told that A LOT of magi that are really into research become vampires or similar things. I mean, even Professor Chaos was a magus, in the past, and he became a vampire using his magic.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


loving Tremeres.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


MonsieurChoc posted:

loving Tremeres.

To be honest TM Mages are more like Ars than WoD ones

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Stairmaster posted:

well they'd be mad he had no interest in pursuing the root

To be fair, there are entire families of magi who don't seem to have a particular interest in reaching the Root - at least not any time soon - let alone any number of the individual exceptions. Like, last time I checked the Edelfelts were basically described as mercenary battle maniacs. And they're a fairly renowned and powerful family. Or, hell, Vice Director of Clock Tower Lorelei Barthomeloi seems a lot more interested in murdering the hell out of Dead Apostles than any metaphysical goals.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



It's an explicitly more common route to vampirism than being bitten, in fact, because unless you're Satsuki that route takes forever and is really unreliable.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

In the Prisma manga Luvia talks about reaching the Root as being so important than even if the world was going to end tomorrow she'd still work towards it.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

YggdrasilTM posted:

I mean, even Professor Chaos was a magus, in the past, and he became a vampire using his magic.

Butters was a weird kid

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Shinjobi posted:

Butters was a weird kid

Sensible chuckle.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Plutonis posted:

To be honest TM Mages are more like Ars than WoD ones

It's cool, there's loving Tremeres in that world too.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


MonsieurChoc posted:

It's cool, there's loving Tremeres in that world too.

They aren't vampires there! Just assholes!

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Rodyle posted:

It's an explicitly more common route to vampirism than being bitten, in fact, because unless you're Satsuki that route takes forever and is really unreliable.

Or roa.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Well I think Arc is the special one in that case but yes

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


Rodyle posted:

It's an explicitly more common route to vampirism than being bitten, in fact, because unless you're Satsuki that route takes forever and is really unreliable.

False, because Satsuki doesn't have a route at all

isn't it sad, sacchin

Hommando
Mar 2, 2012


Freak Futanari posted:

False, because Satsuki doesn't have a route at all

isn't it sad, sacchin

We just have to wait until Nasu gets tired of milking Fate and Takeuchi gets sick of drawing Saber faces.

Alternatively, Takeuchi never gets bored of drawing Saber faces and every character in Tsukiremake is Saber.

Hommando fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Aug 9, 2017

InfinityComplex
Feb 5, 2011

Nothing better than swinging around a little girl like a flail.

You know that is more likely than not

He will never stop drawing saber faces

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Remember when Hisui was his waifu, how times have changed...

Pierson
Oct 31, 2004





College Slice

I liked the older Arcueid design with the non-fetish sweater and the long flowing skirt, that poo poo looked badass animated in Melty Blood. That's my opinion about Tsukihime.

Hommando
Mar 2, 2012


Pierson posted:

I liked the older Arcueid design with the non-fetish sweater and the long flowing skirt, that poo poo looked badass animated in Melty Blood. That's my opinion about Tsukihime.

:same:

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Compendium posted:

Remember when Hisui was his waifu, how times have changed...

Saber is basically blonde Hisui.

Grausherra
Jul 15, 2007

Look into my eyes...

YggdrasilTM posted:

Saber is basically blonde Hisui.

gently caress. Can't unsee.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



not really

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



Compendium posted:

Remember when Hisui was his waifu, how times have changed...

yeah, now it's mashu

Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013


Space Flower posted:

yeah, now it's mashu

Now that you mention it, isn't Mashu basically fusion of Hisui and Saber?

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Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Lt. Lizard posted:

Now that you mention it, isn't Mashu basically fusion of Hisui and Saber?

Nnnno?

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