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Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.

:colbert:


Movie 1::nsacloud:

Movie 2: :byoscience:

Movie 3: :spiderguy:

This is the greatest spoiler in the forum so far!

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Even if Apocrypha isnít your jam, I would strongly recommend watching the Chiron vs. Achilles fistfight from Episode 21. Itís absolutely stunning.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



If only either of those characters weren't the most boring thing

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Captain Baal posted:

If only either of those characters weren't the most boring thing

Yeah, but that matters significantly less for a three-minute animation showcase.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


I tried to look it up and I'm unsure of how a anime where the two teams fight on a squadron of jumbo jets can be boring wtf

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





It's difficult to imagine, but Fate Apocrypha manages.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day


My group of friends calls it Fate Hypocrita.

We basically only watch it for Astolfo.

Tribladeofchaos
Jul 2, 2008

IT'S SHOWTIME!



The only good parts of that show are Astolfo and Mordred. I like Jeanne but sheís stuck with the most boring character ever in Seig.

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Terrible Opinions posted:

It's difficult to imagine, but Fate Apocrypha manages.

:agreed:

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010




Atalante, Shakespeare, Semiramis, and Fran are also good. :colbert:

Also I like Avicebron but mainly because of his historical counterpart.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Avicebron is the most uncomfortable character in the show and that's an achievement. He's literally a Jewish wizard using the blood of children to power his magic. How did not no point out what a bad idea that was during production?

The idea of Shakespeare as a servant is great. His actual execution is straight up wasted potential the character. Why they made him a fanboy for fightmans is something I will never understand.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

Terrible Opinions posted:

Avicebron is the most uncomfortable character in the show and that's an achievement. He's literally a Jewish wizard using the blood of children to power his magic. How did not no point out what a bad idea that was during production?

You're a real retard, did you know that

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


Terrible Opinions posted:

Avicebron is the most uncomfortable character in the show and that's an achievement. He's literally a Jewish wizard using the blood of children to power his magic. How did not no point out what a bad idea that was during production?

they probably didn't point it out, because it's a really stupid thing to get up in arms about

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Apocrypha Servants are characters that work better outside their own story as Fate GO demonstrates because they are in a significantly more enjoyable plot.

Or in Karna's case, both FGO and CCC.

Compendium fucked around with this message at 22:28 on Dec 5, 2017

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



It says a lot when your show's most interesting character is Shiro Amakusa, who still sucks.

Randallteal
May 7, 2006

The tears of time


Plutonis posted:

You're a real retard, did you know that

gently caress off with this poo poo.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



"I am uncomfortable with the weird blood libelesque thing going on here"
"SHUT UP AND DIE MORON"

Another stellar day of discourse

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Itís especially awkward because the most famous golem story was about the one that defended the Prague ghetto from anti-Semitic attacks.

Apocryphaís version of Avicebron does draw from a number of actual pieces of Jewish and European folklore (especially the Golem of Chelm), but they could have been a wee bit more sensitive about the incredibly charged racial context around stories of Jewish mysticism.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

I'm not gonna bother with a guy who's doing an insane leap out of bad faith when the story itself made the reason that Roche was only picked as Golem Core because Avicebron couldn't put his hands on the fat useless uncle after switching sides.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

Avicebron's in the story: Medieval iberia really sucks and I'm gonna find a way to make the world return to the garden of eden
Avicebron's interpreted by insane goons: I'm gonna make matzo out of a child

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



Plutonis posted:

I'm not gonna bother with a guy who's doing an insane leap out of bad faith when the story itself made the reason that Roche was only picked as Golem Core because Avicebron couldn't put his hands on the fat useless uncle after switching sides.

... but he still decided that his pursuit of spiritual fulfilment warranted murdering a child, and thatís a narrative trope with an incredibly ugly history.

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Darth Walrus posted:

... but he still decided that his pursuit of spiritual fulfilment warranted murdering a child, and that’s a narrative trope with an incredibly ugly history.

Nobody said a peep when aryan ideal Gilgamesh performed heart surgery on albino child for the sake of purging the world of the weak and unfit.

Or everything Uryuu and Gilles did.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

Kyte posted:

Nobody said a peep when aryan ideal Gilgamesh performed heart surgery on albino child for the sake of purging the world of the weak and unfit.

Or everything Uryuu and Gilles did.

Because those characters aren't jewish

"Jews murder children to use their blood in rituals" is an actual thing people believe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_libel

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



*watching a show in which a ten year old girl wears a thong and the camera lingers lovingly on her rear end* the real issue here is that there's a jewish wizard

edit: for real though yes some people believe that but i really doubt the writers of fate/apocrypha are literal nazis or believe in blood libel, and more than that there are jewish characters in other parts of the fate lore who are whatever, and more than that literally every wizard in the fate universe uses children blood to power their magic. if avicebron was the only character who sunk that low i could see it but he's just being treated in the same way as every other villainous wizard in the fateverse.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

Kyte posted:

Nobody said a peep when aryan ideal Gilgamesh performed heart surgery on albino child for the sake of purging the world of the weak and unfit.

Or everything Uryuu and Gilles did.

Oh no, the villain is doing something villainous.

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day


Kyte posted:

Nobody said a peep when aryan ideal Gilgamesh performed heart surgery on albino child for the sake of purging the world of the weak and unfit.

Illya's actually 20+ years old so she's a dwarf rather than a child. An albino dwarf.

Blockhouse
Sep 7, 2014

You Win!

also I think uryuu and giles' child murdering spree sucks but that's entirely because I think it comes off as lame and trying way too hard

the fakeout with the kid escaping and then getting killed is good, everything after that is just progressively less effective to the point where the kids exploding into monsters around Saber is just ridiculous.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Blockhouse posted:

also I think uryuu and giles' child murdering spree sucks but that's entirely because I think it comes off as lame and trying way too hard

the fakeout with the kid escaping and then getting killed is good, everything after that is just progressively less effective to the point where the kids exploding into monsters around Saber is just ridiculous.
it's trying extra hard in the novels where instead of rin getting one up on them she just wanders around and cries and her friend dies forever

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



i don't think urobuchi has to try very hard to just bee himself

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day


Didn't Nasu at one point, while going over F/Z drafts, ask him if his blood was red?

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012



Isn't F/Z just Depressing poo poo: The novel?

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






Nevermind that the Black faction was using homunculi as batteries. Sure, they don't look like children but that's basically what they are.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





I mean all Fate characters bar Alexander look like children.

Endorph posted:

*watching a show in which a ten year old girl wears a thong and the camera lingers lovingly on her rear end* the real issue here is that there's a jewish wizard
I had honestly completely forgotten that character existed. Does she show back up? I've been trudging through the garbage fire but haven't caught back up yet.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

Endorph posted:

*watching a show in which a ten year old girl wears a thong and the camera lingers lovingly on her rear end* the real issue here is that there's a jewish wizard

edit: for real though yes some people believe that but i really doubt the writers of fate/apocrypha are literal nazis or believe in blood libel, and more than that there are jewish characters in other parts of the fate lore who are whatever, and more than that literally every wizard in the fate universe uses children blood to power their magic. if avicebron was the only character who sunk that low i could see it but he's just being treated in the same way as every other villainous wizard in the fateverse.

You can criticize a work for unintentional problematic poo poo, especially when a large group of people worked on it and at least one of them could have spoken up

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


It's a weird day when I realize that child murder is one of the least weird things about Type-Moon stuff

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


cheetah7071 posted:

You can criticize a work for unintentional problematic poo poo, especially when a large group of people worked on it and at least one of them could have spoken up

Almost none of those people would have had the same cultural context as a Westerner regarding antisemitism, though.

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk


College Slice

Silver2195 posted:

Almost none of those people would have had the same cultural context as a Westerner regarding antisemitism, though.

Yeah there's an interesting argument to be made in cases like this where in the original cultural context (written by Japanese people for Japanese people) it isn't problematic, but it's intended to be aired worldwide from the get-go rather than as an afterthought. Whether it should be judged in the Japanese context or the worldwide context in that situation is unclear to me.

I think anime these days tends to have the localizers in on the project from the very beginning so having them do a quick pass over the script relatively early in the process to catch things like this seems like a no-brainer to me.

e: I should clarify that I don't really have a horse in the race of whether it's actually antisemitic, I'm just challenging the arguments that it's necessarily okay because it's unintentional

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day


It's a light novel adaptation.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Yes and the Made in Abyss anime removed most of the manga's sexualization of children. You can change things in adaptation.

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Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015

17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the fifth sixth some day


They could've turned his Master into an adult, I guess...? Dial down the 'betrayed by your mentor' aspect a bit for the sake of avoiding the UNCOMFORTABLE IMPLICATIONS of using a HUMAN SACRIFICE to power JEWISH MAGIC.

This is such a non-thing.

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