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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



cheetah7071 posted:

You can criticize a work for unintentional problematic poo poo, especially when a large group of people worked on it and at least one of them could have spoken up
Yes, but my point is it isn't even an unintentional problem.

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Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




Endorph posted:

Yes, but my point is it isn't even an unintentional problem.

Well, Iím glad you get to tell us that.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Darth Walrus posted:

Well, Iím glad you get to tell us that.

im glad too

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Hunt11 posted:

Oh no, the villain is doing something villainous.

That's kinda where I was driving at, yes.

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



i appreciate bringing it up as a talking point and giving me the ol' TIL, but i don't think there needs to be an air of criticism when it's not coming from anti-semitism but the result of two elements in fateverse intersecting in a way that could be seen as bad faith without context.

you know, the context that someone posting in a type moon megathread would have

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


Type-Moon Megathread: The Worst Writing and Most Heinous Misogyny and Also Anti-Semitism

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




I suppose a big part of the issue is that the great big Ďmad scientistí/Ďevil sorcererí European tradition that Fate draws on for its magesí aesthetic has significant partial origins in Jewish mysticism and the anti-Semitic response to it. Itís why Victor Frankenstein has that particular name. Itís why R.U.R., the film that gave us the word Ďrobotí, is so heavily rooted in golem myths. Itís why Rotwang, the evil robot-making sorcerer-scientist from Metropolis (the film, not the anime) is so heavily coded Jewish - he even has Einsteinís hair.

Now, these tropes have been in the cultural consciousness for so long that it seems very unlikely that this was intentional (although Darnic, the Eastern European Ďmaster swindlerí who pulled a fast one on the Nazis and then retreated to his castle to use artificial children as batteries for his science, does make you wonder...), but it does mean that when a Jewish wizard using Jewish magic starts getting up to the standard evil sorcerer-scientist gig, a whole bunch of long-buried subtext starts becoming text again. Itís why the new Wolfenstein games, for instance, were real fuckiní careful with how they portrayed the Daíat Yichud.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Conspiratiorist posted:

Type-Moon Megathread: The Worst Writing and Most Heinous Misogyny and Also Anti-Semitism

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.



I would comment Yuuichirou might not be particularly a good writer when it come to gloom and doom.

He wrote 1: Orlean, 3: Okeanos , 5: America

He is way more suited for writing lighthearted scenario by a mile.

It could also be the anime did a poor job of portraying things.

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

America had like half the cast murdered by Cu Alter though

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.



Pureauthor posted:

America had like half the cast murdered by Cu Alter though
Oh yeah...

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


which servant do you think is the biggest secret anti-semite

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


Stairmaster posted:

which servant do you think is the biggest secret anti-semite

whatever the answer is, the question is moot once they get around to adding 5* Ruler Hitler in FGO

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


The anime is really poor at pacing, especially at the beginning.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Freak Futanari posted:

whatever the answer is, the question is moot once they get around to adding 5* Ruler Hitler in FGO

I SAID SECRET

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Tae posted:

The anime is really poor at pacing, especially at the beginning.

I remember being so let down by the Sumanai vs Karna fight.

Terrible Opinions
Oct 17, 2013





Freak Futanari posted:

whatever the answer is, the question is moot once they get around to adding 5* Ruler Hitler in FGO
Eventually they'll get around to making a big titted lady version of Torquemada wielding the Alhambra Decree.

So real question. Is there a reason why some of the female servants have elf ears?

Tae
Oct 24, 2010

Hello? Can you hear me? ...Perhaps if I shout? AAAAAAAAAH!


The latest episode and series in general completely undersold that Siegfried was strong enough to make Karna, a guy that basically no-sold maximum Vlad, want to fight.

taser rates
Mar 30, 2010


If fat hitler from apocrypha becomes summonable in fgo, i'm whaling for him.

Freak Futanari
Apr 11, 2008


if hitler's noble phantasm did extra damage against jews, how many servants would he be extra effective against

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I don't think this is a particularly appropriate subject.

Ibram Gaunt
Jul 22, 2009

Remember, children... You brought this upon yourselves!


Apparently Abby has a special SFX when you pull her but my phone was muted so I didn't hear it. RIP.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Nate RFB posted:

I don't think this is a particularly appropriate subject.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






Terrible Opinions posted:

Eventually they'll get around to making a big titted lady version of Torquemada wielding the Alhambra Decree.

So real question. Is there a reason why some of the female servants have elf ears?

With Medea (and presumably by extension Circe) it's a marker of their divinity or something? It's not exactly the most consistent thing through the franchise but presumably applies to Semiramis as well.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012



Argas posted:

With Medea (and presumably by extension Circe) it's a marker of their divinity or something? It's not exactly the most consistent thing through the franchise but presumably applies to Semiramis as well.

Except that of those 3, only Semiramis actually has any Divinity. The other two have High Speed Divine Words, but that's not actually related to being personally related to the gods. It's just some odd affectation the three of them have for no real given reason.

Paracelsus
Apr 5, 2009

bless this post ~kya


Lord Koth posted:

Except that of those 3, only Semiramis actually has any Divinity. The other two have High Speed Divine Words, but that's not actually related to being personally related to the gods. It's just some odd affectation the three of them have for no real given reason.

Is Divinity limited to actual deities and not demigods? Medea was the granddaughter of Helios (and Circe was the daughter of Helois and a nymph).

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Paracelsus posted:

Is Divinity limited to actual deities and not demigods? Medea was the granddaughter of Helios (and Circe was the daughter of Helois and a nymph).

It's kinda arbitrary but at least Medea's divinity got materialized in Rule Breaker. It's a thing Servant containers sometimes do. Stheno's jewelry is another example of an intangible (her divine radiance) becoming tangible.

serefin99
Apr 15, 2016

Mikoooon~
Your lovely shrine maiden fox wife, Tamamo no Mae, is here to help!



Paracelsus posted:

Is Divinity limited to actual deities and not demigods? Medea was the granddaughter of Helios (and Circe was the daughter of Helois and a nymph).

Divinity basically represents the Servant in question having any sort of connection to a being that could be called a 'god'. Even Altera has it (at Rank B, to boot) despite not actually being related to a Divine Spirit due to people calling her "the Scourge of God". If what you said is true about Medea and Circe, then either A) they didn't see that part of their myths when making them, or B) that part of the myths isn't true in Nasuverse.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


The elf ear crew are all some manner of witch or sorceress, so it might just be that, too.

Space Flower
Sep 10, 2014



The idea of being a mortal with divine blood comes up a lot in Greek mythology so perhaps that ties into it, but I would mostly guess Medea/Circe don't have an "Authority" to manifest as servants so while their lineage is listed in their biographies, it isn't worth ranking on a statsheet.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Why do they keep putting hot elven babes into these games? It's truly a mystery.

Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






Lord Koth posted:

Except that of those 3, only Semiramis actually has any Divinity. The other two have High Speed Divine Words, but that's not actually related to being personally related to the gods. It's just some odd affectation the three of them have for no real given reason.

Circe is the daughter of Helios and Medea is her niece/granddaughter of Helios. Again, it's not exactly the most consistent thing in Fate since there's plenty of characters with more divinity attributed to them who don't have pointy ears but within that trio, at least, there's a certain amount of consistency. Circe and Semiramis have far more prominent ears than Medea and both are closer to their divine parentage.

I'd also buy the witch/sorceress angle.

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012




I feel that Semiramisís palm-spikes must be pretty inconvenient. Youíd poke an eye out every time you tried to blow your nose.

Then again, I guess thatís the point - showing off that you never actually need to use your hands because youíve got people for that.

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


To be fair having Divinity as a trait just makes you a bigger target in FGO.

Wuxi
Apr 3, 2012



I'm pretty sure Circe is supposed to be an actual goddess. Although Fate has changed stranger things about peoples backstories I guess.

Gamerofthegame
Oct 27, 2010

Could at least flip one or two, maybe.


Circe has like twenty differing legends about her ranging from "goddess of magic" to "just a nymph tbh"

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Finally getting around to Fate/hollow ataraxia, I'm real glad I waited until a voice patch existed because the voice in work in this is real good. Makidera in particular is a fun character.

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



Having cleared HA end to end when it first came out translated a couple years ago, I didn't even realize it hadn't been voiced until the new patch came out all like "finally, VOICE!".

I'm a very fast reader so most characters only get a noise out rather than whole lines in most VNs I check through. Tends to give an impression of tone at least.

Trihugger
Jun 28, 2008

hello


serefin99 posted:

Divinity basically represents the Servant in question having any sort of connection to a being that could be called a 'god'. Even Altera has it (at Rank B, to boot) despite not actually being related to a Divine Spirit due to people calling her "the Scourge of God". If what you said is true about Medea and Circe, then either A) they didn't see that part of their myths when making them, or B) that part of the myths isn't true in Nasuverse.

Altera is a being similar to Tamamo. Being an independent entity that was separated from a larger, multi-versal force of destruction could qualify her as something like a god. Although I'm not sure what classification the Umbral Star or Cells created by it are considered.

Or maybe Altera get's her divinity by being the divine avatar of "The Worf" of the Fate franchise. Seriously, she jobs harder and more often than Gilgamesh does in the original VN.

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Argas
Jan 13, 2008
SRW Fanatic






I'd pin their lack of divinity in their stats as just servant limitations. Heracles as a servant is not the same as as Heracles himself. Sure, there's some that push the boundaries of the summoning system (Gilgamesh ) but by and larger servants are a snapshot of a heroic spirit with some elements of their myth stapled on for good measure (Because the power of belief does affect them) and then shoved into a cramped vessel.

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