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Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



When I saw Hanafuda play itself during Shinjioh, I just filed it with Mahjong as a game I had no hope of understanding, that really felt like watching Akagi.

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Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Shyrka posted:

The hanafuda minigame in Hollow Ataraxia is oddly compelling, too. Pity it never got any reference in Carnival Phantasm.
This is true, but it also has some hilariously bad game design decisions. Like about half the things they added to the game are textbook lessons on what to do in a game (Caster's 1/3rd of the time I lose I actually win what the christ).

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...



Twiddy posted:

This is true, but it also has some hilariously bad game design decisions. Like about half the things they added to the game are textbook lessons on what to do in a game (Caster's 1/3rd of the time I lose I actually win what the christ).

To be fair it's really "end the match before caster gets to 20 mp" but there could have been many better ways to execute that

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Something that this episode made me wonder about: when exactly does Rin realise Archer is the future version of Emiya? She seems really shocked when she finds about the double pendants post Archer's betrayal, but during the date she assures Shirou that he'll grow taller and dodges the question when he asks why she's so certain.

Aumanor fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Dec 28, 2014

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Aumanor posted:

Something that this episode made me wonder about : when exactly does Rin realise Archer is Emiya?

During the last dream or the fight with Kuzuki. But she still isn't sure.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Twiddy posted:

This is true, but it also has some hilariously bad game design decisions. Like about half the things they added to the game are textbook lessons on what to do in a game (Caster's 1/3rd of the time I lose I actually win what the christ).
To be fair, that might be part of the gag. It was pretty clearly being played for laughs, rather than a legit attempt at making an awesome Hanafuda simulator.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


Aumanor posted:

Something that this episode made me wonder about : when exactly does Rin realise Archer is the future version of Emiya? She seems really shocked when she finds about the double pendants post Archer's betrayal, but during the date she assures Shirou that he'll grow taller and dodges the question when he asks why she's so certain.

She asks Archer if he remembers who he is around the end of the episode (after the date) and she doesn't really sound like she strongly suspects who he is, so I'm guessing her mindset at this point is just that Archer and Shirou are the same kind of person, rather than actually the same person.

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


My impression was Rin was disappointed Archer wasn't willing to disclose more info and she'd figured it out when Shirou traced or a bit afterwards (which is why she'd organized the date and such).

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Endorph posted:

To be fair, that might be part of the gag. It was pretty clearly being played for laughs, rather than a legit attempt at making an awesome Hanafuda simulator.
I mean I can understand it being part of the gag, but they're still bad decisions. I think what I mean by that comes across better with more examples...

Bazett's Fragarach ability is terrible game design. Why? Because it's exactly the same as "opponent's can't use noble phantasms" except it promises a fun bonus that can't get delivered on (except for the AI playing like an idiot, and it kind of ruins the experience when the AI has to be purposely thick to make a mechanic work). It's awesome in a way because it perfectly translates what Fragarach does into the game, but it just doesn't work out as made.

I guess at least half of the bad decisions are also because the AI can't handle some of the abilities. Playing as Ilya's maids is basically easy mode because the AI frequently puts itself into unwinnable scenarios because it doesn't even try to play around the ability.


Ultimately the game's still fun and I still completed every route, but as I said you can point out many of the mechanics as textbook examples of what not to do.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Lt. Lizard posted:

To me, Jeanne looks like Saber with a braided ponytail and a slightly different armour. And from that trailer, Shielder looks like Saber with white (pink?) hair and a different outfit. They both share the same overall design as Saber, just with some minor bits changed/added. I guess they are not literally identical to Saber like Nero and Mordred so you could call them Arturias sisters instead of Arutrias clones if you felt charitable, but eh.... :shrug:

My head canon is that Saber is just reincarnated throughout the ages and that's why we have so many.

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



Raenir Salazar posted:

My head canon is that Saber is just reincarnated throughout the ages and that's why we have so many.

But she didn't die in the majority of the routes.

Jegan
Nov 5, 2009


Shyrka posted:

The hanafuda minigame in Hollow Ataraxia is oddly compelling, too. Pity it never got any reference in Carnival Phantasm.

If you have a PSP, there's a port that's fully voiced. I played it before playing Hollow Ataraxia, and it's a lot faster.

point of return
Aug 13, 2011

by exmarx


Gaius Marius posted:

But she didn't die in the majority of the routes.
Are there any major myths other than King Arthur that end with the character going into eternal sleep in a mysterious place?

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



point of return posted:

Are there any major myths other than King Arthur that end with the character going into eternal sleep in a mysterious place?

Almost certainly. The one that comes to mind at the moment is Constantine the XI who in the myth was rescued by an angel or turned to stone and will return to reclaim Constantinople for Christendom. As an aside Constantine the XI was a total badass and would be a loving rad servant.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


So my friend wants to watch the Studio Deen version of Fate Stay night so he can see the Fate route animated while waiting for the 2nd cour of Unlimited Blade Works. He's already seen Fate/zero so he knows those big reveals. I've never watched the Deen version, so are there any spoilers for UBW in it that got added in? I doubt he'll play the visual novel, so that's not really an option.

Hommando
Mar 2, 2012


Friends don't let friends watch the DEEN adaption.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Hommando posted:

Friends don't let friends watch the DEEN adaption.

Blhue
Apr 22, 2008



Fallen Rib

Allarion posted:

So my friend wants to watch the Studio Deen version of Fate Stay night so he can see the Fate route animated while waiting for the 2nd cour of Unlimited Blade Works. He's already seen Fate/zero so he knows those big reveals. I've never watched the Deen version, so are there any spoilers for UBW in it that got added in? I doubt he'll play the visual novel, so that's not really an option.

Not really. There's a nod to UBW existing, but you don't really see much of it or learn how its relevant. Its been a few years so I could be forgetting something though.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



You get to see the Archer vs Berserker fight. Archer uses Unlimited Blade Works and has a few dramatic lines during the fight that hint as his identity.

Incidentally, seeing the Archer vs Berserker fight is the only remotely worthwhile part of the DEEN anime.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Also they play Emiya during the Archer vs. Berserker fight, which may inherently be a spoiler if he recognizes it, and I think the ED for that episode just straight up spoils it iirc.

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


Yeah, I just told him to wait till UBW is over if he's really that curious about Fate, and to just stick to Jojo.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Endorph posted:

You get to see the Archer vs Berserker fight. Archer uses Unlimited Blade Works and has a few dramatic lines during the fight that hint as his identity.

Incidentally, seeing the Archer vs Berserker fight is the only remotely worthwhile part of the DEEN anime.

Despite that episode having terrible animation.

MadRhetoric
Feb 18, 2011

I POSSESS QUESTIONABLE TASTE IN TOUHOU GAMES


MonsieurChoc posted:

Despite that episode having terrible animation.

The DEEN adaptation had terrible animation in general.

Is your friend averse to reading, Allarion? If he's not, I'd just tell him to read the drat LP of Fate route. The DEEN adaptation sucked out loud.

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.
:boom:
he knows...



MadRhetoric posted:

Is your friend averse to reading, Allarion? If he's not, I'd just tell him to read the drat LP of Fate route. The DEEN adaptation sucked out loud.

:stonk:

The Fate route is 10+ hours of interminably boring setup for the two actually good routes. Please never read it for its own sake.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Friends also don't let friends read the Seorin LP. Just try to get your friend to play Realta Nua PC.

.Clash
Apr 10, 2009


Rodyle posted:

Friends also don't let friends read the Seorin LP.

:frogout:

Endorph posted:

Incidentally, seeing the Archer vs Berserker fight is the only remotely worthwhile part of the DEEN anime.

When someone suggested this awhile ago I regretted even youtubing it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Liam O'Brien doing the UBW chant is something I am glad to have seen.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

There really is no good answer here. The DEEN anime is terrible and the VN route is pretty boring after UBW, HF, and/or Zero. Best possible option IMO is to play Realta Nua PC so you can at least control the pace to a certain extent.

Really if you're already on board with UBW you don't need to bother with Fate unless you are desperate for some closure to Arturia's story.

rvm
May 6, 2013


While Fate isn't exactly great, it's still pretty enjoyable urban fantasy pulp even without taking into account what it's setting up. I was surprised how actually compelling it was (I was influenced by the usual drivel about Shirou's misogyny, wordiness, etc., etc.) when I read it about half a year ago (took me a couple of weeks).

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Yeah I'm at the point Gil first shows up to skewer Caster and its finally clicked to me by now as a 'just one more...' page turner.

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

Have him read Fate. People talk it down a lot but it's pacing is no worse then the other two routes and the actual biggest problem with it (the romance being both central to the plot and incredibly forced) was fixed with Realta Nua.

Fate is also the most direct 'sequel' to Fate/Zero, so if your friend watched that he'll be able to appreciate Saber and Gilgamesh getting resolution for their characters and Shirou surpassing Kiritsugu's mistakes in every way.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

MonsieurChoc posted:

Despite that episode having terrible animation.

I still burst out laughing whenever I remember Archer randomly jumping into the air to POSE.

It wasn't even a good pose.

Scrree posted:

Shirou surpassing Kiritsugu's mistakes in every way.

I'd argue he doubled down even harder.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


Raenir Salazar posted:

Yeah I'm at the point Gil first shows up to skewer Caster and its finally clicked to me by now as a 'just one more...' page turner.

I think this is exactly the point where Fate really picks up (which is… awfully late, for sure, but I still kinda liked the rest of it, too). That was the case for me, and it was the case for one of my friends who was otherwise super lukewarm on Fate.
The encounter with Caster seems like it's going to go more or less like the other Servant battles ("Oh, a new Servant. She's probably going to disappear and then the next little arc will be about finding her and figuring out how to beat her."). It seems like a pretty predictable development. Then Gilgamesh wanders in and decides the rest of the plot is going to be about him and he casually makes his point with an overwhelming show of force. Also a pretty cool theme song.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


Endorph posted:

Liam O'Brien doing the UBW chant is something I am glad to have seen.

You will bear witness to it again when the UBW is dubbed... provided they don't recast him like they did Gil.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



actually there is one more thing that makes the deen anime worthwhile a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCXmVhRb-6A

(please ignore the fact that it's a youtube poop and just focus on the 'we're pilin' up the wins' line)

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010



can you imagine... liam obrian as archer in a show that's good. I'm excited

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


It's weird hearing the dub of the 2006 anime when I've heard them in better quality in the UBW movie.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


Cake Attack posted:

can you imagine... liam obrian as archer in a show that's good. I'm excited

I'm still never getting Grant George back as Gilgamesh.

:(

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



actually the dub in general is probably the best part of the 2006 anime

it's a pretty good dub. most of the voices fit and everyone does okay with the material. we're pilin' up the wins.

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Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


I'm mostly talking about the sound quality, it's just really stuffy as hell. The voice acting is good, but you sometimes couldn't tell because all of the voices sound bad in terms of actual sound quality.

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