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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Beef Waifu posted:

I'm mostly talking about the sound quality, it's just really stuffy as hell. The voice acting is good, but you sometimes couldn't tell because all of the voices sound bad in terms of actual sound quality.
yeah that's 2006 anime dubs for you

at least it isnt one of those dubs where everyone sounds like theyre in a wind tunnel

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SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Gaius Marius posted:

But she didn't die in the majority of the routes.

Uh, she died in two out of three?

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Endorph posted:

You get to see the Archer vs Berserker fight. Archer uses Unlimited Blade Works and has a few dramatic lines during the fight that hint as his identity.

Incidentally, seeing the Archer vs Berserker fight is the only remotely worthwhile part of the DEEN anime.

I think the hints to Archer's identity are so obscure you'd have to already be motivated enough to read the VN to get them. The fact that UBW is Archer's Phantasm doesn't necessarily spoil anything because there's no reason to even know that Shirou can also perform UBW and in fact, he doesn't perform it until after Archer's identity is already revealed.

SALT CURES HAM posted:

Uh, she died in two out of three?

I consider Sparks Liner High and the UBW Good Ending to be the canon endings, so she didn't die in any of them. :colbert:

U-DO Burger
Nov 12, 2007






Angry Grimace posted:

I consider Sparks Liner High and the UBW Good Ending to be the canon endings, so she didn't die in any of them. :colbert:

I know Fate is less exciting than the other routes, but you could at least remember the ending.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Angry Grimace posted:

I consider Sparks Liner High
an ending where saber has completely lost all will to live and feels that there is no more good left in the world for either sakura or rin is a much happier ending than her just dying like a normal person

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


I wonder what happens to Saber after Heaven's Feel. Does she just move on to the next search for a Holy Grail?

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

jellycat posted:

I wonder what happens to Saber after Heaven's Feel. Does she just move on to the next search for a Holy Grail?
Isn't she kind of dead in both endings?

Otherwise, I imagine she just chills at Hotel Emiya like everyone else, neglecting to get a job like the deadbeat she is.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


Twiddy posted:

Isn't she kind of dead in both endings?

Otherwise, I imagine she just chills at Hotel Emiya like everyone else, neglecting to get a job like the deadbeat she is.

I was under the impression that she's effectively immortal as a Heroic Spirit until she either fulfills or cancels her contract to obtain the Holy Grail. She's killed in her incarnation as a participant in the Fifth Grail War, but she herself doesn't die. At least, that was my understanding.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The problem is that the grail no longer exists by the end of any of the routes. Well, Waver and Rin have a bebopping adventure to destroy it after the Fate/UBW routes, but either way, there's no grail for her to fight for.

jellycat
Nov 4, 2012

it's a nice day


Right, but I don't think the contract limits her to this grail. Like Kotomine said, there have been lots of things called the Holy Grail over the years, and I just figured Saber's contract basically includes anything called the Holy Grail (that can fulfill her wishes, maybe).

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


U-DO Burger posted:

I know Fate is less exciting than the other routes, but you could at least remember the ending.

Okay, you got me. Fate kind of sucks, sorry.

Endorph posted:

an ending where saber has completely lost all will to live and feels that there is no more good left in the world for either sakura or rin is a much happier ending than her just dying like a normal person

I never said SLH was happy.

Twiddy posted:

Isn't she kind of dead in both endings?

Otherwise, I imagine she just chills at Hotel Emiya like everyone else, neglecting to get a job like the deadbeat she is.

I don't think dying as a Servant does anything to her. She just goes back to the hill, as far as I know.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Dec 29, 2014

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Crossposting this from the UBW thread:

YggdrasilTM posted:

Well, - the set of command spells in the war in this moment is still 21. The reason is that Kuzuki, while acting as a "anchor", does not have any command spell

I think you're forgetting the three Command Spells Caster fooled her Master into wasting so that she could backstab him.
At this point the status of Command Spells issued in this war is:
Shirou's x3 all used, contract with Saber broken by Caster.
Rin's x3 2 used, 1 remaining.
Bazett's x3 stolen by Kotomine along with control over Lancer, 1 used to order him to spar with all Servants once, most likely 2 remaining.
Caster's Master's x3 all wasted on trivial tasks, Master himself killed by Caster once he could no longer stop her.
Ilya's x3 most likely all still remaining.
Sakura's x3 1 used to create the Book of the False Attendant to transfer Rider's possesion to Shinji, no idea what might've happened to the other 2.
Caster's... hmm... did she get any Command Spells when she summoned fake!Assassin? Assuming she did, x3 2x3, 1x3 1x1, 3 Command Spells pulled out of her rear end when she bound Saber with a contract, 1 used to order Tohsaka's death, one used to bend Saber's will to Caster's command, currently being resisted.

That gives us 24.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Was Assassin guarding the temple gate a command spell order? It's been a while.

Blhue
Apr 22, 2008



Fallen Rib

Endorph posted:

Was Assassin guarding the temple gate a command spell order? It's been a while.

I don't recall if it ever specified it was a command seal rather than just an order but probably.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Endorph posted:

Was Assassin guarding the temple gate a command spell order? It's been a while.

From what I gathered, he's not even a "real" servant; he's just an extraordinarily powerful familiar she's calling Assassin while the real Assassin simply never shows up in non-HF routes and Zouken just sits around not doing anything or even being mentioned by his name.

Aumanor posted:

Crossposting this from the UBW thread:


I think you're forgetting the three Command Spells Caster fooled her Master into wasting so that she could backstab him.
At this point the status of Command Spells issued in this war is:
Shirou's x3 all used, contract with Saber broken by Caster.
Rin's x3 2 used, 1 remaining.
Bazett's x3 stolen by Kotomine along with control over Lancer, 1 used to order him to spar with all Servants once, most likely 2 remaining.
Caster's Master's x3 all wasted on trivial tasks, Master himself killed by Caster once he could no longer stop her.
Ilya's x3 most likely all still remaining.
Sakura's x3 1 used to create the Book of the False Attendant to transfer Rider's possesion to Shinji, no idea what might've happened to the other 2.
Caster's... hmm... did she get any Command Spells when she summoned fake!Assassin? Assuming she did, x3 2x3, 1x3 1x1, 3 Command Spells pulled out of her rear end when she bound Saber with a contract, 1 used to order Tohsaka's death, one used to bend Saber's will to Caster's command, currently being resisted.

That gives us 24.

Doesn't Sakura still have the Command Seals? I'm not sure why, but I seem to recall that in HF, Shinji originally loses Rider and then just demands more seals from Sakura.

Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Dec 29, 2014

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


It's confusing because Rule Breaker (fittingly?) breaks all the normal rules about how Command Spells work. For example, normally you keep your Command Spells after your Servant dies, and if you make a contract with a new Servant you have to use already-existing Command Spells. However, when Medea uses Rule Breaker on Saber, she gets three new Command Spells out of nowhere. I believe it's also stated somewhere that Kuzuki has things that are sort of like Command Spells but are different somehow.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


I remember a bunch of people hoping that the ufotable adaptation would be Heaven's Feel, but so far, I don't think I've seen many people figure out the big twist in UBW without spoilers. But you'd have to be denser than the bone of Shirou's sword to not figure out the Heaven's Feel twist (the Shadow is Sakura!). Tellingly, Shirou could not figure this out for 2/3 of the loving route.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

At this point of time in UBW Sakura should indeed have two more Command Spells. Normally I think she always has these two except for in HF where one more gets used to make another book for Shinji and the last one is used to order Rider to protect Shirou.

I think Caster can pull Command Spells out of her rear end whenever she makes new contracts because she's, from a certain perspective, essentially just a super awesome magus and hey magi are nominally able to be selected as Masters.

I think Illya's entire body is covered in Command Spells so she might have more than 3? You can "store" unusued Command Spells, as we saw with Kirei in Zero, though I have no idea how the Einzberns might be able to do so.

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Isn't Ilya completely covered in CSs?

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Silver2195 posted:

It's confusing because Rule Breaker (fittingly?) breaks all the normal rules about how Command Spells work. For example, normally you keep your Command Spells after your Servant dies, and if you make a contract with a new Servant you have to use already-existing Command Spells. However, when Medea uses Rule Breaker on Saber, she gets three new Command Spells out of nowhere. I believe it's also stated somewhere that Kuzuki has things that are sort of like Command Spells but are different somehow.
Yeah, she can somehow mock up fake command spells and she uses them rather liberally. Might be related to her item crafting ability? Who knows.

Angry Grimace posted:

I remember a bunch of people hoping that the ufotable adaptation would be Heaven's Feel, but so far, I don't think I've seen many people figure out the big twist in UBW without spoilers. But you'd have to be denser than the bone of Shirou's sword to not figure out the Heaven's Feel twist (the Shadow is Sakura!). Tellingly, Shirou could not figure this out for 2/3 of the loving route.
From my memory of the route, Shirou points out that he very purposely ignored a lot of things about Sakura's situation, both before and after the Holy Grail War begins. It's less how dumb he is and more that he acts purposely thick about Sakura's life.

Nate RFB posted:

I think Illya's entire body is covered in Command Spells so she might have more than 3? You can "store" unused Command Spells, as we saw with Kirei in Zero, though I have no idea how the Einzberns might be able to do so.
From my memory of Fate/Zero, the moderators just have a stack of extra command spells on them. It's why Kirei's father could promise extra ones to whoever killed Caster. From that alone, there doesn't seem to be a strong limit.

Twiddy fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Dec 29, 2014

Aumanor
Nov 9, 2012


Angry Grimace posted:

From what I gathered, he's not even a "real" servant; he's just an extraordinarily powerful familiar she's calling Assassin while the real Assassin simply never shows up in non-HF routes and Zouken just sits around not doing anything or even being mentioned by his name.


Doesn't Sakura still have the Command Seals? I'm not sure why, but I seem to recall that in HF, Shinji originally loses Rider and then just demands more seals from Sakura.
I think he does count as a Servant, even if he is a bit of a bootlegged one. That is to say, he does fit into the Class system, Grail has supported his summoning and his death fuels the lesser Grail. The main difference between him and regular Servants is that he's not a Spirit from the Throne of Heroes, and that he's somehow bound to the Ryuudou Temple gate.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Gaius Marius posted:

But she didn't die in the majority of the routes.

Its more that the same way Caliburn traces its lineage to older swords, I imagine the idea of "Warrior Who Sleeps Until Is Needed Again" is also one of those recurring legends that those incarnated in the Saber class generally trace their own lineage from.

jellycat posted:

Right, but I don't think the contract limits her to this grail. Like Kotomine said, there have been lots of things called the Holy Grail over the years, and I just figured Saber's contract basically includes anything called the Holy Grail (that can fulfill her wishes, maybe).


Yeah precisely. Plus with Nasu/Type-moon writing other alternate works that include some sort of Grail there's probably plenty of places she can show up.

Raenir Salazar fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Dec 30, 2014

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Fake Assassin isn't a real Assassin, but for all intents and purpose he's a servant. He's even taking up the real Assassin's spot, which is why True Assassin explodes out of him.

Incidentally, poor True Assassin. The most forgotten servant. :smith:

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



BlitzBlast posted:

Incidentally, poor True Assassin. The most forgotten servant. :smith:
Not even in most of the spinoff materials. At least Kojiro was in Fate/Unlimited Codes.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Raenir Salazar posted:

Its more that the same way Caliburn traces its lineage to older swords, I imagine the idea of "Warrior Who Sleeps Until Is Needed Again" is also one of those recurring legends that those incarnated in the Saber class generally trace their own lineage from.



Yeah precisely. Plus with Nasu/Type-moon writing other alternate works that include some sort of Grail there's probably plenty of places she can show up.

Seems like there's a lot of places Heroic Spirits end up that we just don't see.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


gently caress True Assassin

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


^^^

Seriously, he has no personality traits to the point where he just gets influenced by Lancer's personality so gently caress him

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Compendium posted:

^^^

Seriously, he has no personality traits to the point where he just gets influenced by Lancer's personality so gently caress him

I kind of like True Assassin. His pragmatism and (surprisingly for someone who seemed so inhuman when first introduced) sanity make him a good foil to the other characters, especially Zouken.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


He is only good when put in immediate relation to everyone else he works with because he's the sensible one of the group.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

"Shouldn't you just kill him?"

"Nah, this is totally going to work out."

"Well okay, you're the boss."

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

BlitzBlast posted:

"Shouldn't you just kill him?"

"Nah, this is totally going to work out."

"Well okay, you're the boss."
Hey man, not pissing off the crazy rear end in a top hat worm lich is totally the smart move here. Look at what he does to his adopted grand daughter, and then tell me you want to contradict him.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I liked Saber's epilogue in Fate (true). Otherwise yeah a lot if the route was boring and it didn't make up for it with a great second half like the other routes did.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


True Assassin has the amazing fight scene against Kotomine, so he's alright in my book.

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

True Assassin gets marks for not being a completely ineffective skimpily dressed Femme Fatale, which every 'Fate' knockoff work decided would be the easiest way to handle the class.

(Most Shown) Fate/Zero Assassin:

Fate/Prototype Assassin:

Fate/Apocrypha Assassin of Red:

and I'm not posting Assassin of Black because it's just so bad in the worst possible way.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Thinking about it, next Fate spinoff they should just have Shiki summoned as Assassin, to troll all the "Could Shiki kill a servant?" people.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


One of the few designs in Extra that was for the better and doesn't involve grossness.

MonsieurChoc posted:

Thinking about it, next Fate spinoff they should just have Shiki summoned as Assassin, to troll all the "Could Shiki kill a servant?" people.

If you're talking about Ryougi, she was in Extra so... (If we're talking Tohno then I'm staying away from that one)

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

You know, Aiko...
I really wanted to be killed by you.


Scrree posted:

True Assassin gets marks for not being a completely ineffective skimpily dressed Femme Fatale, which every 'Fate' knockoff work decided would be the easiest way to handle the class.

Fate/Apocrypha Assassin of Red:

and I'm not posting Assassin of Black because it's just so bad in the worst possible way.

Yeah, but this one actually makes sense considering who she's based on.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



also it's far and away the best of those designs, cleavage or no.

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Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Endorph posted:

also it's far and away the best of those designs, cleavage or no.

Kyte fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Dec 30, 2014

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