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BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Actually, I guess it could also end in Rin getting cold feet and taking out Shirou to save Sakura. I'm sure Archer would be more than happy to do it.

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Lt. Lizard
Apr 28, 2013


Blhue posted:

Been a while, but iirc, a Dead end means Shirou died, a Bad End is an ending where he doesn't necessarily die, but the path he's set on isn't one that will end happily.

Funny, I never noticed there was a distinction, but that makes sense. Although I do wonder how are classified those hosed-up ends where Shiro is technically alive, but would be better off dead.

As for Mind of Steel, Kotomine seemed to really like the new Shiro, so I always figured he would help him out a bit.

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013



BlitzBlast posted:

I still don't understand how Mind of Steel would end in anything other than Berserker pasting Shirou the second he steps out of the church.

Does he have enough swords?

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


For real TM crossover shenanigans, don't forget the All Around Type-Moon manga!

http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/all-around-type-moon-ahnenerbe-no-nichijou-r3607

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Lt. Lizard posted:

Funny, I never noticed there was a distinction, but that makes sense. Although I do wonder how are classified those hosed-up ends where Shiro is technically alive, but would be better off dead.

As for Mind of Steel, Kotomine seemed to really like the new Shiro, so I always figured he would help him out a bit.

Kotomine is the ultimate troll. He was probably inwardly thinking how hilarious it's going to be when Rin or Ilya would end up having to kill Shirou. He's not going to actually help Shirou unless it's to maximise delicious suffering.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


I think he'd probably find it suitably tragic/ironic that Kiritsugu's son grew up to be just as unhappy as he was for the exact same reasons. Having Shirou killed early just means there's less time for him to suffer.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

I imagine Shirou winning is supposed to be left to the imagination, where willing to go to any means to reach his ends new opportunities would open up.

Now as for Gil, how much of his arrogance an act? How he acts without his armour and spikey hair seem to differ considerably from when he is.

That and Young Gil seems a lot more willing to be comedic.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



It's not left to the imagination. It's a bad ending telling you "That was a dumb thing to do loser, don't do that." It's not like they put a ton of thought into most of them, or do you think hotel shark is something worth a thought beyond "lol?"

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


Beef Waifu posted:

It's not left to the imagination. It's a bad ending telling you "That was a dumb thing to do loser, don't do that." It's not like they put a ton of thought into most of them, or do you think hotel shark is something worth a thought beyond "lol?"

No, that one's a bit different. Even in the Taiga Dojo bit they say something like "well, I guess that was a reasonable choice, but it's not the story we're trying to tell here so we can't show all the details."

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

Ilya literally calls you an idiot, and Taiga just goes "no comment".

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I thought the idea is that you already saw the outcome in UBW.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


BlitzBlast posted:

Ilya literally calls you an idiot, and Taiga just goes "no comment".

Taiga says "...I can't say much this time. This is one result." While you interpreted that as "no comment", in the context that she usually scolds you for doing something wrong and tells you what to do better, it's pretty clear that she's saying something more like "I can't scold you here, this is just the choice you made."

Ilya calls you an idiot because of her own character, since she's pretty much the person you made the choice to.

Bholder
Feb 26, 2013



It's a bad end because Shirou learns nothing and becomes Kiritsugu/Archer.

Tsukihime had something similar with Shiki murdering Akiha and turning into a mass-murderer/vampire hunter.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

You mean one of the endings in Kohaku's route? I think he's lost an arm and a leg in that one, he's probably just going to bleed out. Not that he cares at that point.

EDIT: That ending is hilarious in the LP because Seorin links one of Nanaya's win quotes in MB... right before the actual Nanaya mode Shiki muses about how stupid it is to enjoy killing.

BlitzBlast fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Oct 13, 2014

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


I always found it amusing how that fight scene was almost exactly like the one in Kara No Kyoukai against the eye girl.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


The best one doesn't have "BAD END" or "DEAD END." It's just "END." :colbert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmECWz-8MI#t=429s

e: I actually forgot the most stupidly :black101: thing about HF (and hoo boy there's a lot): the fact that Shirou is literally made of swords by the end. They don't really do a great job showing that in the VN but holy god drat it's going to be insane animated.

SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 14, 2014

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



No, the most :black101: part is that the only reason Kotomine doesn't break the man made of swords with his bare goddamn hands is the clock running out.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


I mean, Kotomine literally ripped an oak tree out of the ground with his bare hands in F/Z, it's not as if doing completely insane bullshit feats of strength is abnormal for him. :v:

That fight is still probably the best thing Nasu has ever written, though. After 40+ hours of silly DBZ poo poo with magic powers, the final climactic battle of the VN is just two dying men beating the living gently caress out of each other with their bare hands.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



SALT CURES HAM posted:

I mean, Kotomine literally ripped an oak tree out of the ground with his bare hands in F/Z, it's not as if doing completely insane bullshit feats of strength is abnormal for him. :v:

That fight is still probably the best thing Nasu has ever written, though. After 40+ hours of silly DBZ poo poo with magic powers, the final climactic battle of the VN is just two dying men beating the living gently caress out of each other with their bare hands.

"We've got no powers left, let's just beat the poo poo out of each other" is possibly my favorite trope out there. Bonus points if both combatants are dying anyway.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

The only downside to the final battle in Heaven's Feel is that it makes the one in Fate just seem laughable in retrospect.

tweet my meat
Oct 2, 2013

yospos


One thing I liked about the Fate final battle was that Kotomine got killed with the same dagger he killed Tokiomi with, other than that it blew it out of the water.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.


It seems kind of dumb that there's this equivocation drawn between Rin's situation and Sakura's in Heaven's Feel. I mean, Sakura's jealousy was pretty much completely justified; even though Rin was lonely and had to practice magic or whatever, she wasn't literally tortured every day.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Nate RFB posted:

The only downside to the final battle in Heaven's Feel is that it makes the one in Fate just seem laughable in retrospect.

You also have to keep in mind that the final battle in Fate is a third of the way through the VN. It's the climax of the route, whereas the HF one is the climax of the entire VN.

e: Also, Rin's situation is actually pretty lovely too. She's almost entirely socially isolated (she has literally two friends up to the start of the VN), and rather than being raised like a normal person she's been groomed since early childhood to play DBZ Highlander and most likely die horribly for the sake of making her long-dead daddy proud. It's significantly better than Sakura's backstory, yeah, but the point wasn't that they were equally bad, it was that Sakura saw Rin's life as absolutely perfect and assumed Rin didn't give a flying poo poo about her when neither of those were actually true.

SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Oct 14, 2014

AfroSquirrel
Sep 3, 2011



Compendium posted:

For real TM crossover shenanigans, don't forget the All Around Type-Moon manga!

http://bato.to/comic/_/comics/all-around-type-moon-ahnenerbe-no-nichijou-r3607

This is amazing! Thanks for linking it. Magical idiots are even better when they're dealing with alternate versions of themselves!

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


AfroSquirrel posted:

This is amazing! Thanks for linking it. Magical idiots are even better when they're dealing with alternate versions of themselves!

No problem! I think it's a really cute and chill gag series where the author clearly shows the love for TM characters and makes a genuinely fun crossover with the characters in Ahnenerbe (I love how that cafe is a universal constant).

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

SALT CURES HAM posted:

You also have to keep in mind that the final battle in Fate is a third of the way through the VN. It's the climax of the route, whereas the HF one is the climax of the entire VN.
It's just silly to think a Kotomine not on death's door would ever in a million years lose out against a Shirou with no reality marble even if he was caught by surprise.

Myurton
Jan 2, 2004

I <3 Asuka,
omg anime fag

SALT CURES HAM posted:

The best one doesn't have "BAD END" or "DEAD END." It's just "END." :colbert:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znmECWz-8MI#t=429s

e: I actually forgot the most stupidly :black101: thing about HF (and hoo boy there's a lot): the fact that Shirou is literally made of swords by the end. They don't really do a great job showing that in the VN but holy god drat it's going to be insane animated.

Actually in the play asia and vita version they do a better job of this actually showing his body having swords sticking out of it emanating from his left arm.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Wasn't Kotomine powered up by the grail during HF or something? He may have just been weaker in Fate.

Cake Attack
Mar 26, 2010



SALT CURES HAM posted:

I mean, Kotomine literally ripped an oak tree out of the ground with his bare hands in F/Z, it's not as if doing completely insane bullshit feats of strength is abnormal for him. :v:

That fight is still probably the best thing Nasu has ever written, though. After 40+ hours of silly DBZ poo poo with magic powers, the final climactic battle of the VN is just two dying men beating the living gently caress out of each other with their bare hands.

that fight is gonna be so loving good with a ufotable movie budget

Anyway, is it just more or are they not using much of the music from the VN in the show? I don't mind much, but I like ever-present feeling more than the equivalent sad music they used in episode 2

Scrree
Jan 15, 2008

the history of all dead generations,

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Wasn't Kotomine powered up by the grail during HF or something? He may have just been weaker in Fate.

Nah, Kotomine was just overconfident in Fate. He had basically won the Holy Grail War by sitting off to the side and watching the bloodbath, and Shirou was being consumed by the curse of the Angra Mainyu and probably looked as threatening as late F/Z Kariya before he summoned Avalon. Shirou reaching him at all was a complete surprise.

In Heaven's Feel Kotomine had brushed off his rusted combat skills, and more important actually saw Shirou as someone worth fighting instead of someone to mock on the cusp of victory. His last words in Fate are even something like "I've grown so weak."

SALT CURES HAM posted:

e: I actually forgot the most stupidly thing about HF (and hoo boy there's a lot): the fact that Shirou is literally made of swords by the end. They don't really do a great job showing that in the VN but holy god drat it's going to be insane animated.

Scrree fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Oct 14, 2014

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT


AfroSquirrel posted:

This is amazing! Thanks for linking it. Magical idiots are even better when they're dealing with alternate versions of themselves!

Manager Jouji Nakata and his aura of sinister characters is pretty great too.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



I will never forget that George Nakata is a playable character in a fighting game.

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


Myurton posted:

Actually in the play asia and vita version they do a better job of this actually showing his body having swords sticking out of it emanating from his left arm.

I played it years ago with the Realta Nua patch that added most of the extra stuff and didn't really see anything like that (with the exception of that bit in the Kirei fight), but maybe it's been added since or my memory's foggy.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Heaven's Feel isn't actually the Sakura Route: it's the Kotomine Route.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Do you want some?

SALT CURES HAM
Jan 3, 2011


I still can't understand why everyone hates Sakura so much. She's the most believable love interest for Shirou out of the three, HF is pretty much the best route aside from it dragging a bit in the middle (and holy loving poo poo does the end make up for it), and she's the only one of the three female protagonists to actually have human flaws instead of being Takeuchi's perfect tailor-made waifu like Saber or a semi-generic tsundere like Rin.

BlitzBlast
Jul 30, 2011

some people just wanna watch the world burn

It's because she's boring. Her passiveness, self-loathing, and eventual insanity are justified, and in many ways match up with Shirou's own flaws, but they can get pretty tiring to deal with because that's essentially all she has to her. Saber has food, temporal shenanigans and cool fights while Rin has... pretty much everything about her to make them interesting.

Yosuke
Dec 21, 2006

Emperor of Steel


Yeah...I can't say I hate Sakura? I mean, I understand where she's coming from and she certainly matches Shirou well...it's just that she really is kind of boring as a person. She's not bad, just until Heaven's Feel itself there's nothing really compelling me to her. Once you get to her background I went "Ooooh, okay. That makes sense" but her actual personality is just kind of meh.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Yeah hate is just internet posting hyperbole. She's just kind of boring and probably more importantly she's the face of a lot of the major problems with Heaven's Feel: the pacing, the relatively dull new villains, the way said new villains chump everyone who is actually cool out...

e:
http://i.imgur.com/nOedblil.jpg
Boy it's always great to see a couple new All Around Type Moon chapters.

Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Oct 14, 2014

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Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS

Maybe I'm just older or maybe it's just ufotable being good at what they do but I'm liking Sakura a lot more in the UBW anime. Maybe her polite nature comes off better in motion than in text? Gonna suck for her when Rin comes in and steals him away.

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