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AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



Rody One Half posted:

If we get Archimedes before Morgan or Buddha someone's gonna catch hands

I thought you couldn't get gods as servants. Like don't they specifically say somewhere that getting Yahweh/Jesus/Allah/Zeus/Odin/etc. is an impossibility. I'm pretty sure The Buddha is up there (and would cause some public backlash if they try to add him in). Though, it would be interesting if they brought out Siddhartha Gautama pre-enlightenment. :v:


Also, I just rewatched the Ushiwaka-maru + Leonidas v. Gorgon fight. Soooo loving good.

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Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



AlternateNu posted:

I thought you couldn't get gods as servants. Like don't they specifically say somewhere that getting Yahweh/Jesus/Allah/Zeus/Odin/etc. is an impossibility. I'm pretty sure The Buddha is up there (and would cause some public backlash if they try to add him in). Though, it would be interesting if they brought out Siddhartha Gautama pre-enlightenment. :v:


Also, I just rewatched the Ushiwaka-maru + Leonidas v. Gorgon fight. Soooo loving good.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Saver_(Fate/Extra)

Galaga Galaxian
Apr 23, 2009

What a childish tactic!
Don't you think you should put more thought into your battleplan?!


Wada is the only TM artist horny enough to draw the Buddha's nipples.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"




lol. I completely forgot about this. Oh Twice, you little scamp. :allears:

But I'm pretty sure they get away with this by giving Saver zero characterization. It is just a manifestation of ultimate power.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Buddha got the best characterization already on Saint Young Men.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



That's exactly why he and Big J should be added to the pool at the same time

E: They also need to follow up on last encore and put Armstrong in

Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jan 28, 2020

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

AlternateNu posted:

I thought you couldn't get gods as servants. Like don't they specifically say somewhere that getting Yahweh/Jesus/Allah/Zeus/Odin/etc. is an impossibility. I'm pretty sure The Buddha is up there (and would cause some public backlash if they try to add him in). Though, it would be interesting if they brought out Siddhartha Gautama pre-enlightenment. :v:

This is usually gotten around via either composite Servants (the Alter Egos) or Psuedo-Servants (Ishtar and them) or other means (hijacking someone else's summoning, like Artemis and Orion)

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!

Er, Iím pretty sure Hercules is a god?

DamnGlitch
Sep 2, 2004



nrook posted:

Er, Iím pretty sure Hercules is a god?

Half god.

LibrarianCroaker
Mar 30, 2010


Nah, he's Divine because he has god blood, but he's not a proper god.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Wasn't Gil's whole deal of being a demigod treated like a big loving deal? Like I know "lol, power levels" applies and all, but I thought being a demigod and being the real McCoy were like two different sports and all that jazz?

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Wark Say posted:

Wasn't Gil's whole deal of being a demigod treated like a big loving deal? Like I know "lol, power levels" applies and all, but I thought being a demigod and being the real McCoy were like two different sports and all that jazz?

Not particularly, 4 of the Servants in FSN have the "Divinity" skill indicating that they have some connection to gods.

Gilgamesh's big deal is that he is the Original Hero, and is thus the most powerful of them all due to him being the concept that all of humankind's heroes spring from.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Well that was his concept but he's long since stopped being the most powerful. Much like he has stopped being a weird baby eating rapist.

For one thing he is explicitly not a Grand.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


... baby eating?

is that a reference to Kirei's orphan room or is there something where Gil just flat out loving chows down on a baby

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!

I donít know why I remember this clearly, but Gilgameshís divinity isnít important because he doesnít respect the gods himself. I think this only comes up on his stat board and not in the actual story, which makes sense because no one involved really cares.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


When you start bringing in the Hindu Servants, power-level goes loving crazy.

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


also, side note, but the power levels in Fate have just gotten absolutely loving ridiculous to a point where goddamn Toriyama would probably go "this is a little much"

between Gate of Babylon and Ea, Gil was probably one of the most hilariously overpowered characters in all of fiction, to the point where the story has to actively come up with ways to weaken him or put another character at his level for him being beaten to even be mildly plausible, and he's nowhere near the top anymore

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Gil is a bitch that I can stab with any of the FGO Lancers, this is canon don't @ me

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Rody One Half posted:

Well that was his concept but he's long since stopped being the most powerful. Much like he has stopped being a weird baby eating rapist.

For one thing he is explicitly not a Grand.

Not really? No Servant has really been said to be more powerful than Gil on a complete 1 to 1 level. There are things stronger than Servants, but there always have been. Arcuied can trash pretty much every Servant but Gilgamesh and that's just because his method of fighting kind of bypasses the whole "Is powered up by the Planet itself to be stronger than whatever she faces" trick. And even in FSN the Shadow literally eats Servants for breakfast.

Newer stuff introduced (Kind of, lots of it is foreshadowed in older material books and the like) like several enemies Chaldea faces and the Beasts aren't Servants in lore, but are very powerful. Like, the Lion King and God Arjuna are, well, gods, who have always been much more powerful than Heroic Spirits. And Beasts' are literally world ending threats that Seven Servants were always meant to fight.

Plus, regular Archer Gilgamesh losing to a Grand Servant isn't exactly relevant either. Grand Servants are straight up far more powerful than regular Servants just by being Grand Servants. Gilgamesh is the strongest Heroic Spirit, and as such he's the strongest Servant when summoned as one. But Servants themselves are just small fragments of Heroic Spirits given body and will, and a Grand Servant is a lot more. If Gilgamesh were summoned into a Grand container he would be the strongest Grand Servant through that.

Elephant Parade
Jan 20, 2018



doesn't saber beat him up in fsn

OnimaruXLR
Sep 15, 2007
Lurklurklurklurklurk

Compendium posted:

Gil is a bitch that I can stab with any of the FGO Lancers, this is canon don't @ me

Even Benkei?!

Isn't Gilgamesh's indomitable status nearly 100% tied to Ea? Gate of Babylon and it's contents are great, but in the "powerful, but can be worked around" sense and not the "Maybe rethink your life choices if you ever have to deal with this" sense

OnimaruXLR fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 28, 2020

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Elephant Parade posted:

doesn't saber beat him up in fsn

Avalon is cheat mode


Also Emiya beat him and it was great

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



Elephant Parade posted:

doesn't saber beat him up in fsn

excalibur loses to enuma elish straight up but by 'containing' enuma elish within avalon she gained the upper hand and got a counterattack in

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



I bet if all of the goons of the world teamed up, we could beat up Gilgamesh.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Elephant Parade posted:

doesn't saber beat him up in fsn

Yes that's because GIlgamesh may be technically the strongest but just like how he lost his immortality to a freaking snake because he was an overconfident idiot so do does Saber cut him in half for underestimating her and then it happens again with Shirou only worse.

Edit: Also just like how he was an overconfident idiot and got his partner killed because he decided pissing off the gods by killing the guardian of their sacred trees sounded fun.

Dr Pepper fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jan 28, 2020

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


gil's losses in fsn are, in order:

- having his bullshit countered by saber's own bullshit that makes her functionally unkillable if she has it

- having his bullshit countered by shirou pulling a "do gil's thing but better" power out of his rear end from watching EMIYA do it

- getting jumped by sakura's even stronger bullshit that literally eats servants

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


He also only loses to Shirou because he didn't put his armor on, and could've also kept the stalemate and win in the end if he had kept on throwing away treasures till Shirou's mana ran out and UBW lost coherency.

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



Yeah he consistently loses to his own hubris.

FGO counting to me isn't meant to be like an insult, it's just by the nature of a videogame whatever party the PC fields is going to be able to beat any encounter

Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Jan 28, 2020

Darth Walrus
Feb 13, 2012
:gas::gas::gas:



OnimaruXLR posted:

Even Benkei?!

Isn't Gilgamesh's indomitable status nearly 100% tied to Ea? Gate of Babylon and it's contents are great, but in the "powerful, but can be worked around" sense and not the "Maybe rethink your life choices if you ever have to deal with this" sense

The whole point of GOB is that it's got everything that everyone else has buried somewhere within it. So he can whip out some really broken bullshit if he wants - the only problem is that he might not know how to use it quite as well as they do. Ea may be his greatest treasure, but there's plenty of other stuff he could go for if he so chose. The Vimana was a small example of his powerset's versatility.

Pureauthor
Jul 8, 2010

ASK ME ABOUT KISSING A GHOST

Gilgamesh gets defeated in FGO by way of this cunning strategy:

1) Get him blind drunk
2) Dogpile him with 5 Servants at once.

Alternatively sit his rear end in his throne room until he succumbs from overwork. Either or.

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.

:colbert:


The whole deal in Nasuverse is the weak are able to beat powerful beings despite the impossible odds. Power level have long ceased to be the main factor for the final outcome.

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy


Raxivace posted:

I bet if all of the goons of the world teamed up, we could beat up Gilgamesh.
I'm pretty certain that Fate/Zero laid that to rest. :v:

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747


i kinda like how that Just an Unorthodox Thief fanfic handles Gil

Gil gets repeatedly turbo-dunked by Lupin because of three things: one, Lupin's Noble Phantasm lets him take ownership of anything he gets his hands on a la Lancelot, and Gil never learns that using Gate of Babylon on him is kind of a bad idea. Two, Gil gets beyond pissed at the results of trying to use Gate of Babylon on Lupin, and stops thinking before he acts (which walks him right into a trap where Lancelot is pretending to be Lupin). Three, he doesn't account for the possibility that he might not be immune to sniper bullets made out of one of Lancer's spears, which Jigen blows his loving head off with.

e: seriously, if you're in this thread and you like Lupin III, you should probably go read that, and if you don't, you're a monster and I don't care about your opinion because Lupin loving rules

Conspiratiorist
Nov 12, 2015


LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i kinda like how that Just an Unorthodox Thief fanfic handles Gil

Gil gets repeatedly turbo-dunked by Lupin because of three things: one, Lupin's Noble Phantasm lets him take ownership of anything he gets his hands on a la Lancelot, and Gil never learns that using Gate of Babylon on him is kind of a bad idea. Two, Gil gets beyond pissed at the results of trying to use Gate of Babylon on Lupin, and stops thinking before he acts (which walks him right into a trap where Lancelot is pretending to be Lupin). Three, he doesn't account for the possibility that he might not be immune to sniper bullets made out of one of Lancer's spears, which Jigen blows his loving head off with.

e: seriously, if you're in this thread and you like Lupin III, you should probably go read that, and if you don't, you're a monster and I don't care about your opinion because Lupin loving rules

:jerkbag:

WeedlordGoku69
Feb 11, 2015

by Cyrano4747



I like it because it's

1) basically the same thing that always gets Gil owned in spite of how hilariously OP he is, his hubris and unwillingness to acknowledge anyone as an actual threat to him (vs. just a mongrel who got lucky) until it's too late

2) one hundred percent in line with the kind of bullshit Lupin always pulls in his own franchise, just taken up a single notch so he'll fit in Fate (like this is honestly kind of Lupin's gimmick)

e: also, notably, Lupin doesn't ever turn GoB around on Gil, he just grabs as much as he can and runs like gently caress to go sell it

WeedlordGoku69 fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Jan 28, 2020

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


I mean Gil is one of the more powerful entities in setting but he's not that strong compared to your average shonen fare. He'd struggle against most of the captains from bleach.

Aurora
Jan 7, 2008



can broly beat gilgamesh

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



ill level lord of booty talking about a fanfic he likes is more enjoyable than arguing about gilgamesh's power level like thats a thing that anyone older than 12 should care about

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


I like fanfic, I've yet to find an FSN or Fate related fanfic I like and some of them definitely have that problem of POWER LEVELS

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Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


Endorph posted:

ill level lord of booty talking about a fanfic he likes is more enjoyable than arguing about gilgamesh's power level like thats a thing that anyone older than 12 should care about
all the best fanfics are tsukihime/wider nasuverse like that one that takes place as a pre-Notes times about the guy murdering all the remaining dead apostles in order to carry a printer for the six sisters.

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