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MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


AlternateNu posted:

They'd have to do an alternate universe cross-over thing like with Ryougi. I'm pretty sure he doesn't exist (in the same form) in the Tsukihime timeline.

Really, the just need to make a Fate edit of the MBCC. F/UC and F/GO Arcade were poo poo.

Hey! Unlimited Code had a good soundtrack!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyTyIiN2PBw

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Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

FORUMS
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Endorph posted:

at least the green knight is confirmed to exist so they could bring him in down the road. there's a lot of secondary/third string knights of the round table who have been pretty explicitly confirmed to not exist due to not being included when they list all the knights of the round table

fate can and will basically include whoever when they want to, people not feeling like having them in stories is the issue as opposed to not being acknowledged or whatever.

Which indicates that as it stands he probably won't show up because nobody writing wants to include him for whatever reason, it's not like his odds are significantly better than king cador or whoever. It's a distinction without a difference.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Sep 5, 2021

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019


Yeah, anyone who gets at least one mention has a chance of appearing because it means the writers know they exist, look at how Osakabehime and Bennienma were foreshadowed in a Tamamo interlude in FGO. Or the Materials' relationship section.

That said sometimes it's better they don't appear *looks at el Cid*

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Acerbatus posted:

fate can and will basically include whoever when they want to, people not feeling like having them in stories is the issue as opposed to not being acknowledged or whatever.

Which indicates that as it stands he probably won't show up because nobody writing wants to include him for whatever reason, it's not like his odds are significantly better than king cador or whoever. It's a distinction without a difference.
all im saying is that fate is at present unlikely to include dinadan

Acerbatus
Jun 26, 2020

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Endorph posted:

all im saying is that fate is at present unlikely to include dinadan


No I agree, I'm just saying I don't think the green knight's odds are any better. When was he even mentioned?



e: Though as pointed out bennienma and osakabehime were mentioned in extreme passing and showed up eventually, so what do I know? it might actually be a more recent mention, I dunno.

Acerbatus fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Sep 5, 2021

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



believe hes hmentioned in the fate grand order materials book in reference to gawain's belt of bertilak skill in game. so also a very passing mention, but passing mentions have led to content before. for instance, there's a fair few random mythological/historical figures mentioned in fate/hollow ataraxia. not just ones related to the existing cast, but completely random ones like blackbeard, anne and mary, caesar, and siegfried. all of them, of course, would go on to show up later.

rather than it being a clear cut case of like, not mentioned = could never appear, it's more like being mentioned implies they're actively on their radar. i doubt the random offhand mention of blackbeard in f/ha was set up for fgo, its probably more like nasu had considered him being a servant as a random thought, meaning that thought was in the back of his mind when selecting the launch servants for fgo. likewise, the green knight being mentioned, however offhandedly, means that the thought's at least floating around.

nrook
Jun 25, 2009

Just let yourself become a worthless person!

I wonder what Arthurian stuff Nasu has read.

When I first read FSN, I definitely got the impression that he had read The Once and Future King. The idea that the king is separate from and above their knights appears in both stories; certainly Fate shows Arthur having a deep love for their kingdom and their knights, and says that itís incredibly sad that the position of king meant that none of their knights ever really realized that. But maybe thatís all in Le Morte díArthur, the original work, which I havenít read.

I think heís read something, though.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

One thing a lot of outsiders to the Fate universe seem to dismiss is the idea that any research has occurred and just look at the genderflips and that's as far as they look; it's pretty unfortunate because maybe there isn't a consistent amount of effort across all spinoffs and characters but there's definitely have been some effort and historical research that goes beyond a wikipedia summary. The Kali Yuga chapter made me feel like their personalities were definitely informed by something more than a quick skim.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


nrook posted:

I wonder what Arthurian stuff Nasu has read.

When I first read FSN, I definitely got the impression that he had read The Once and Future King. The idea that the king is separate from and above their knights appears in both stories; certainly Fate shows Arthur having a deep love for their kingdom and their knights, and says that itís incredibly sad that the position of king meant that none of their knights ever really realized that. But maybe thatís all in Le Morte díArthur, the original work, which I havenít read.

I think heís read something, though.

Did the ttrpg Pendragon get a japanese translation?

Friar John
Aug 3, 2007

Saint Francis be my speed! how oft to-night
Have my old feet stumbled at graves!

MonsieurChoc posted:

Did the ttrpg Pendragon get a japanese translation?
The old editions definitely did, you can find replay novels based on campaigns from the late 80s and 90s.

Asimo
Sep 23, 2007




Yeah Chaosium's stuff has a large penetration into the Japanese tabletop RPG scene and lingered on long after TSR basically gave up there. It's part of why there's so much Lovecrsft stuff in Japanese nerd media, uo to and including Fate.

narm00
Feb 18, 2006


If Pendragon's a source, I suspect it's not the only one, as it tends to sideline the high-magic side of Arthurania, where Nasu's more than happy to incorporate it, having magic all over the place. End of Britain's Age of Gods and all that.

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.


Friar John posted:

The old editions definitely did, you can find replay novels based on campaigns from the late 80s and 90s.

Oh poo poo, now that sounds cool.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Once And Future King seems the most likely influence, a lot of the knights heavily echo White's interpretations. Galahad in part being "perfect" actually making him kind of creepy and inhuman is right out of White.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


Rody One Half posted:

Once And Future King seems the most likely influence, a lot of the knights heavily echo White's interpretations. Galahad in part being "perfect" actually making him kind of creepy and inhuman is right out of White.

It's kind of a recurring theme in Nasu stuff that perfect good and perfect evil are both equally incompatible with humanity, too.

YggdrasilTM
Nov 7, 2011



Ciel route opening.
https://youtu.be/7bu39dMD5MA

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



https://twitter.com/MB_LUMINA/status/1435800529427259398

Shinjobi
Jul 10, 2008




Gravy Boat 2k

Finally, Shrek is canon to the TM universe.

Stairmaster
Jun 8, 2012

nope just me lain


https://twitter.com/KaroshiMyriad/status/1435805956248539142?s=20

New wife just dropped

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



https://twitter.com/MB_LUMINA/status/1436163629334761474

Raxivace
Sep 9, 2014



https://twitter.com/MemoriesOfIce/status/1438915115424886795

Seems like somebody is trying to retranslate FSN.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Interesting. FSN could definitely do with one. Based off the screenshots they posted I think it could do with another pass through but it definitely comes across less stilted than the mirror moon one.

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

You know, Aiko...
I really wanted to be killed by you.



Oh yeah. Another new character intro:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7gFmOQKf1U

In classic TM fashion, his name doesn't quite match the romanization. I'm assuming he's Romanian since "Arhangheli" is the Romanian plural for "archangel."

AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Sep 18, 2021

Red Bones
Aug 9, 2012

"I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."



I only just found out the first half of the Tsukihime remake came out, I had no idea it even had a release date. I guess all the info atm is just coming from people who can read Japanese who have played it, but is it an improvement on the original? I read the LP of the original probably a decade ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy on it, but I remember it being a mix of really good weird horror, and some very not-great 90s dating sim sexual politics.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAaPQeMU7sY

narm00
Feb 18, 2006


Month in, and A piece of blue glass moon has hit 240,000 copies sold between physical and downloads:

https://twitter.com/TM_TSUKIHIME/status/1441325891489972225

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Big new Nasu interview on Tsuki R and TM more broadly. Some interesting lore stuff, some claims about theming (Mahoyo, FGO, and TsukiR are apparently bound by their critique of modern consumerism), and the patently ludicrous statement that Type Moon just doesn't have the resources for localization, so long as you don't count a war chest fit for purchasing whole countries as resources.

E: More specifically

quote:

 Steam版を出すなら,多言語対応したいですね。でもこのゲームの場合,ただ翻訳するだけではちょっと。演出も合わせて調整しなくちゃならないけど,そんな余力はないという。でも英語と中国語くらいはなんとかÖÖ。
If we're going to put it on Steam, we'd want to include multiple languages. But in Tsuki R's case, just translating the text wouldn't really be enough. We'd have to actually alter the game presentation as well, and we don't really have the resources for that. Maybe if it's just English and Chinese..."
Presentation probably referring to certain visual effects and points where VO and text diverge.

You'd think you could hire up or make deals with localization companies or any number of things to do that work but oh no tm is a small bean company, no resources

Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Sep 28, 2021

boredsatellite
Dec 7, 2013



Just release the JP version on steam so that fan tlers can do whatever they can atleast instead on working on emulated switch

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


Rody One Half posted:

Big new Nasu interview on Tsuki R and TM more broadly. Some interesting lore stuff, some claims about theming (Mahoyo, FGO, and TsukiR are apparently bound by their critique of modern consumerism), and the patently ludicrous statement that Type Moon just doesn't have the resources for localization, so long as you don't count a war chest fit for purchasing whole countries as resources.

E: More specifically

Presentation probably referring to certain visual effects and points where VO and text diverge.

You'd think you could hire up or make deals with localization companies or any number of things to do that work but oh no tm is a small bean company, no resources

TM is a tiny-rear end company, dude. And even a localization company has to rely on the original development team for things that involve the programming of the game itself, which is what Nasu's talking about here.

Thuryl
Mar 14, 2007

My postillion has been struck by lightning.


Kyte posted:

TM is a tiny-rear end company, dude. And even a localization company has to rely on the original development team for things that involve the programming of the game itself, which is what Nasu's talking about here.

I've seen programming work happen on the localization side sometimes, but that relies on the devs being willing to share their source code and the code itself being written and documented well enough that other people can work on it, neither of which is a given.

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Kyte posted:

TM is a tiny-rear end company, dude. And even a localization company has to rely on the original development team for things that involve the programming of the game itself, which is what Nasu's talking about here.
Yes, sadly they lack the futuristic technology needed to expand the size of a dev team, like a want ad.

And of course even if they could hire more programmers, lord knows they barely make enough money to keep the lights on

E: it's just such an absurd statement because companies with less people and INFINITELY less cash overcome this kind of poo poo without issue.

poo poo, R07 gets his stuff out now and 7th Expansion is practically nothing but him, his brother, and a sippy bird hitting keys.

Rody One Half fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Sep 28, 2021

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I think the bottleneck is probably on Nasu's time specifically.

Motto
Aug 3, 2013



The major VN localization companies can take years to put out games that require major programing and visual modifications and that's if their employees don't leave or get fired over being paid pennies.

Nyaa
Jan 7, 2010
Like, Nyaa.

:colbert:


If only they have the budget to open a second development studio to remake games that have as much english text and voiceover as a visual novel. :hmmno:

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Nyaa posted:

If only they have the budget to open a second development studio to remake games that have as much english text and voiceover as a visual novel. :hmmno:
It's just not possible

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



He said 'resources,' not 'money.' Nasu is very meticulous and would want to go over things himself. He's very busy with FGO, Type Lumina, and the second part of the Tsuki remake. No amount of money can fix that. Ryukishi07 is pretty hands off with the Higurashi mobage and it is also not nearly as big, and he's only currently working on Ciconia.

This isn't some obscure secret he literally says in that interview that the issue is that he doesn't have enough time not that he doesn't have enough money or manpower. I think people also overestimate how much of FGO's gacha money Type-Moon actually sees. Of course, it's still an extremely profitable company relative to its operating costs, but the vast majority of the money is going to sony and delightworks, not type-moon. Type-Moon is just licensing the property out to them, plus whatever money Nasu and Takeuchi get paid for writing and illustrating it.

Endorph fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Sep 28, 2021

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



What I don't get is why they don't at least just test the waters with something. So many Type-Moon properties have come to America and become such a facet of western otaku culture that you'd think they could invest some amount of money into an English TL for FSN with the amount of ports it has. FSN has had so much of its poo poo figured out at this point that they could do something like hire Xseed and have someone as a contact point with Nasu to confirm if poo poo's going well or makes sense wrt his intentions or whatever and see if the demand is there or how well it would go without him. I don't believe for even a minute the dude can't spare an hour to talk about concerns he'd have to someone and made sure they're followed, he does not need to be in the room for every little thing as evidenced by the absurd amount of adaptations we've gotten that have done just fine on their own.

Like this reminds me of how no one ever believed JoJo would come to the west because of the stand names and right now Part 5 is in print with the remaining parts on their way.

Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 28, 2021

Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I can see why Nasu would want to give a translation his personal attention. Really hope he finds time to do it at some point, a proper Tsuki or FSN translation would be great.

Bakanogami
Dec 31, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Red Bones posted:

I only just found out the first half of the Tsukihime remake came out, I had no idea it even had a release date. I guess all the info atm is just coming from people who can read Japanese who have played it, but is it an improvement on the original? I read the LP of the original probably a decade ago so my memory is a bit fuzzy on it, but I remember it being a mix of really good weird horror, and some very not-great 90s dating sim sexual politics.

I just finished reading through it, and I'd say it was absolutely an improvement on the original. I haven't read the original since Seorin's LP ten years ago, though, so my memory's a little fuzzy on the details.

The improved visuals absolutely add a lot. The horror parts are scarier, the action parts are cooler, and the characters have more personality. In terms of overall presentation, I might still say that Mahou Tsukai no Yoru was still a little better? That might just be because the spinny magic circles and laser beams fit the engine better than slo-mo knife action. And I liked Mahoyo's music more. I hadn't been 100% sold on the character designs going in. Ciel in particular gives off a very different impression. But in the end I think I like this version a lot better. She might just be Blue Mash, but Blue Mash is good.

The sex stuff was largely cut out (both because it's a console release and because Nasu's mentioned that it's just not that kind of market anymore), so stuff either happens off screen, is loosely implied but not confirmed, or it's cut entirely and the plot moves on. I seem to remember the far side routes dealing more with the uncomfortable stuff, though, so we'll see what they do there when we get there, I guess.

They changed a lot of stuff around, story-wise. The prologue before Shiki meets Arc is longer now, and they replaced Nrvnqsr. Apparently Nasu felt that Nrvnqsr was too big and powerful to be defeated like a chump as the first boss, so instead there's a new character called Vlov, who's more of a traditional vampire type, and uses fire/ice instead of sharks and crocodiles. That said, the overall flow mostly stays the same, even with a lot of the same dead ends. The fight against Vlov is powered up a lot, though, and kinda plays with some of your expectations if you remember how it went vs Nrvnqsr in the original.

The back half of Arc's route is mostly the same, with a few small changes and additions. Nasu wrote on his blog that he wanted to make the Arc route "a power up" of the original. They did cut Arc's good end, since I guess they figured it ruined the tone of the true end. The Ciel route is where they really change things up. Many of the new characters are associated with Ciel or the church, and while they keep the broad strokes of the original route, a lot of it is totally new. Ciel's good end, in particular, is uh...quite a spectacle.

I'm curious about what they'll do with the Far Side routes. I thought it'd be hard to compete with the new Ciel endings for a big finale, but some of the new characters they've added seem make it seem like things could go way, way off the rails.

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Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

It sounds like you can almost think of it like an alternate timeline; is it still set in the same year it was before or did they move it up to be more modern day?

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