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gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007


I don't understand how that gender swap works at all.

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Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Serious Frolicking posted:

I don't understand how that gender swap works at all.

It's a dude

ACES CURE PLANES
Oct 21, 2010




TheLovablePlutonis posted:

lol Strange/Fake Saber is actually Richard Lionheart instead of Proto-Arthur

Until I looked up Strange/Fake, I thought this was referring to the Grand Order Popsicle Saber. That'd take a hell of a lot of explaining.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


AlternateNu posted:

That was the fan theory I've heard. Fun enough, the OVA for Carnival Phantasm has a skit with a giant Grail-possessed Illya bemoaning her lost route. :v:

Mercifully, the abandoned route wasn't THAT kind of route. It was just an "explore her backstory" route; most of which ended up going into Heaven's Feel.

Chalupa Picada
Jan 13, 2009



Ilya :smith:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78EKF80QhGo

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I guess some folks (not here) are complaining that Shirou didn't replicate the sword rain itself, and instead just traced one sword at a time. That's essentially how they handled the Gil vs. Shirou fight in the DEEN movie which of course sucked, so I hope that's not an indication as to how they will handle it here.

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT


It... kinda makes sense though? Shirou is still inexperienced with this ability of his.

Hopefully we get sword rain in Gil v. Shirou.

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Nate RFB posted:

I guess some folks (not here) are complaining that Shirou didn't replicate the sword rain itself, and instead just traced one sword at a time. That's essentially how they handled the Gil vs. Shirou fight in the DEEN movie which of course sucked, so I hope that's not an indication as to how they will handle it here.
I expect the next fight to be amazing too, but if I'm not literally feeling sorry for the animators while watching the Shirou vs Gil fight then they failed.

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.


Yea, you don't just start off completely imitating an attack like that, especially in Shirou's state. Starting off by working to make the individual swords faster and faster makes more sense than instantly being able to copy the entirety of Archer's version of "Gate of Babylon".

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


The problem is that they aren't really making clear the significance of what is happening here. One moment Archer is verbally telling us that Shirou is at his limit, then Shirou seems to be doing pretty much the same thing he did before again. Make a sword, hit something breaking the sword, rinse, repeat. It doesn't seem like anything new. Worse Archer's inability to finish the job now seems inexplicable. Suddenly Rin is captured? How? Why?

This really wasn't a good episode.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

Schubalts posted:

Yea, you don't just start off completely imitating an attack like that, especially in Shirou's state. Starting off by working to make the individual swords faster and faster makes more sense than instantly being able to copy the entirety of Archer's version of "Gate of Babylon".
Both the VN and the anime showcase it as a sudden, single counterattack that then cuts to black essentially, where suddenly the RM has dissipated and Archer has now kidnapped Rin. Whatever Shirou does, it's a last ditch, sudden, one-time move that seemingly buys enough time for UBW to go away and wasn't really substantial other than as a defense. But there is a throwaway line about how "There is no way I can't reproduce the rain of swords in front of me!"

Personally I think ufotable likes the material too much that they'd hold back during one of the biggest fights in the franchise, and maybe Shirou did reproduce the rain but they didn't show it so that they can save it for an oh poo poo moment during Shirou vs. Gil.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

I thought it was cool as we saw how Shirou can scan a sword instantly and then immediately project it again and again.

Repster
Nov 29, 2014


Fangz posted:

The problem is that they aren't really making clear the significance of what is happening here. One moment Archer is verbally telling us that Shirou is at his limit, then Shirou seems to be doing pretty much the same thing he did before again. Make a sword, hit something breaking the sword, rinse, repeat. It doesn't seem like anything new. Worse Archer's inability to finish the job now seems inexplicable. Suddenly Rin is captured? How? Why?

This really wasn't a good episode.

The way I see it is, Shirou was desperate and needed a way out. He lucked out, and collapsed Unlimited Blade Works via his innate connection to it. Forcefully tearing it apart because of two wills acting on it. Can't have two people driving a plane an one going hard left and the other hard right. Breaking reality knocked everybody out, and the Archer just grabbed Rin, because well, he summoned UBW in the first place, and he was aware of it's imminent dispelling, and how to deal with the feedback.

As for not finishing the job... *shrug*

Might be simple as he's starting to have second thoughts that killing Shirou is the right way to go about it. Hence the mano a mano fight to work things out and figure out if it's truly what he wants. And since he KNOWS Shirou is going to show up, and that there's little to no chance of interference from Saber in it, he's confident he can end it then if it is.

Also, story conventions. Shirou is the protagonist, and the story is not over. Dying in a final battle versus Archer is one thing, but getting stabbed in the face while he's knocked out? Nah...

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


Repster posted:

The way I see it is, Shirou was desperate and needed a way out. He lucked out, and collapsed Unlimited Blade Works via his innate connection to it. Forcefully tearing it apart because of two wills acting on it. Can't have two people driving a plane an one going hard left and the other hard right. Breaking reality knocked everybody out, and the Archer just grabbed Rin, because well, he summoned UBW in the first place, and he was aware of it's imminent dispelling, and how to deal with the feedback.

As for not finishing the job... *shrug*

Might be simple as he's starting to have second thoughts that killing Shirou is the right way to go about it. Hence the mano a mano fight to work things out and figure out if it's truly what he wants. And since he KNOWS Shirou is going to show up, and that there's little to no chance of interference from Saber in it, he's confident he can end it then if it is.

Also, story conventions. Shirou is the protagonist, and the story is not over. Dying in a final battle versus Archer is one thing, but getting stabbed in the face while he's knocked out? Nah...

I'm not saying the story should have ended with Shirou dying. I'm saying the way it's depicted in the anime is awkward as hell. They should have supplied the connective tissue to make it all make sense, not go 'oops this can't end right here, expeditious retreat!!!'.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



The ending of this episode was pretty awkward writing-wise, but Archer doesn't actually want to kill Shirou.

Since this is the TM thread, I'll go full spoilers: Archer's motivation isn't 'I want Shirou to die.'

His motivation is self-punishment taken literally. Archer hates himself. Shirou is himself. He doesn't want to just kill Shirou, he wants to break Shirou, show him how utterly meaningless his ideal is. Just punking him wouldn't accomplish that. If Archer's motivation was Shirou's death, then there were a thousand opportunities in every route for him to just stab Shirou in the back and be done with it.



'His anger is probably directed at himself.' It's a specific line about his yelling in that scene but it also explains a lot of Archer's actions.

More than that, Saber points out that this won't actually erase Archer's existence, and Archer deflects the question by going 'well, you don't know for sure,' but at the end of the day he almost certainly does realize it won't erase his existence. He's not doing it to kill himself, or kill Shirou. He's doing it to punish himself by punishing Shirou. If he just stabs Shirou, then what has he accomplished? Nothing at all. He needs to beat Shirou down until he realizes the futility of his actions and how meaningless his ideal is. Betraying Rin for Caster, kidnapping Rin later, and letting Shirou live - those are the kind of things that don't make sense if his goal is Shirou's death, but do make sense if his goal is Shirou's frustration and grief.

quote:

"I'm just taking my anger out on a kid called Emiya Shirou, the one who will become a clown as a result of his stupid ideal."

Endorph fucked around with this message at 20:10 on May 10, 2015

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Silver2195 posted:

Exactly. I'll discuss this in more detail in Type-Moon General.

Continuing a discussion from the UBW anime thread about non-Western heroes:

EMIYA is Japanese. Sasaki Kojiro is Japanese. (Apocrypha spoilers) Shirou Amakusa is Japanese, and was summoned in the Third War, before Darnic modified the Grail. The Grail doesn't seem to have much of a problem summoning Japanese Heroic Spirits.

On the the other hand, there aren't any Chinese or Indian Servants in Fuyuki Grail Wars that we know about, although the Moon Cell Grail War has a bunch, and Apocrypha has one.

There still don't seem to be any Servants from sub-Saharan Africa or the Americas, though.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


In b4 Shaka Zulu ransa

Iretep
Nov 10, 2009


Silver2195 posted:

Continuing a discussion from the UBW anime thread about non-Western heroes:

EMIYA is Japanese. Sasaki Kojiro is Japanese. (Apocrypha spoilers) Shirou Amakusa is Japanese, and was summoned in the Third War, before Darnic modified the Grail. The Grail doesn't seem to have much of a problem summoning Japanese Heroic Spirits.

On the the other hand, there aren't any Chinese or Indian Servants in Fuyuki Grail Wars that we know about, although the Moon Cell Grail War has a bunch, and Apocrypha has one.

There still don't seem to be any Servants from sub-Saharan Africa or the Americas, though.

Sasaki Kojiro isn't a heroic spirit.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


He's not even Kojiro either.

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

He's not even Kojiro either.
Close enough for the Holy Grail, close enough for me.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

And most of the Mutants in X-Men are American, it's just because the author is Japanese so we're guaranteed some Japanese Heroic Spirits.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011




Flatt is my favorite type/moon character

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Berserker Jack the Ripper is cool but it would kick rear end if El-Melloi actually gave him the catalyst for Iskander because they would be my favorite Master/Servant pair ever

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Another chapter of the Fate/Strange Fake manga was released.

http://www.mangachapter.me/43462/fatestrange-fake/3.html

Man, Berserker's Master is... Can't say I like him, people who say Shirou is dumb have not met Flat. It was great to see Waver again though.

Compendium fucked around with this message at 19:50 on May 11, 2015

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Compendium posted:

Another chapter of the Fate/Strange Fake manga was released.

http://www.mangachapter.me/43462/fatestrange-fake/3.html

Man, Berserker's Master is... Can't say I like him, people who say Shirou are dumb have not met Flat. It was great to see Waver again though.

I like how this manga posits that yeah, the superpowers drat well will in fact employ their own magi to further geopolitical interest.

legoman727
Mar 13, 2010

by exmarx


Oh my god how did this kid live this long in the Association? I can't wait to see his dreams utterly smashed. :allears:

I have to say that this idea for Jack is about 100 times better than loli Jack from Apochrypha, thank god.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


legoman727 posted:

Oh my god how did this kid live this long in the Association? I can't wait to see his dreams utterly smashed. :allears:

He's a magic genius and he has ultra luck and I guess him and Berserker are gonna be like Waver/Iskander on character development.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



legoman727 posted:

Oh my god how did this kid live this long in the Association? I can't wait to see his dreams utterly smashed. :allears:

I have to say that this idea for Jack is about 100 times better than loli Jack from Apochrypha, thank god.
iunno the tone seems to be pretty comedic so it's entirely possible his dreams won't be smashed :allears:

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Hurrr

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



It remains cool when a snobby old wizard is cut up by sniper fire.

I wonder what evil shenanigans we're up to this time though
.

AfroSquirrel
Sep 3, 2011



We've finally found a way to stop the endless multiplication of Sabers. God bless America :911:

Kyte
Nov 19, 2013

Never quacked for this


The Sabers will continue multiplying so long as Takeuchi continues working in Type-Moon.

In other words, forever.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


F/SF - There's more Sabers incoming and you know it (I know nothing about the series and I know this).

As an aside, I just realized the UBW anime is getting perilously close to the Mana Transfer Dolphins. :ohdear: This is gonna get weird one way or another. Comedy option: just have the scene straight from the VN, since it is, as previously stated, hilarious.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Fade to black and the next scene is Rin raging at Shirou like she did in the VN it'd be great.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011


Angry Grimace posted:

F/SF - There's more Sabers incoming and you know it (I know nothing about the series and I know this).

As an aside, I just realized the UBW anime is getting perilously close to the Mana Transfer Dolphins. :ohdear: This is gonna get weird one way or another. Comedy option: just have the scene straight from the VN, since it is, as previously stated, hilarious.

Apparently there are seven new servants crashing the snowfield grail war so there must deffo be a Saber with them.

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Compendium posted:

Fade to black and the next scene is Rin raging at Shirou like she did in the VN it'd be great.

Maybe they can finally address why Shiro didn't just go to the drug store for some, er, supplies which would have made it 10 billion times less awkward for everyone involved.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Angry Grimace posted:

Maybe they can finally address why Shiro didn't just go to the drug store for some, er, supplies which would have made it 10 billion times less awkward for everyone involved.
shirou: sex... makes babies... *clenches fist*

Angry Grimace
Jul 29, 2010

ACTUALLY IT IS VERY GOOD THAT THE SHOW IS BAD AND ANYONE WHO DOESN'T REALIZE WHY THAT'S GOOD IS AN IDIOT. JUST ENJOY THE BAD SHOW INSTEAD OF THINKING.


Endorph posted:

shirou: sex... makes babies... *clenches fist*

All I'm saying is that some lube, condoms and cigarettes for afterwards would have resulted in 30 less paragraphs of Nasu making mollusk comparisons.

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010


No it wouldn't, don't lie to yourself.

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Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Angry Grimace posted:

All I'm saying is that some lube, condoms and cigarettes for afterwards would have resulted in 30 less paragraphs of Nasu making mollusk comparisons.

But that's the dark ritual that allows Dojo Mode Rin into the real world!

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