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Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



He'd probably be fine with Shiro if Shiro didn't actively steal from him.

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Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Beef Waifu posted:

He'd probably be fine with Shiro if Shiro didn't actively steal from him.
One thing that's kind of annoying is that because of the way the new adaptation has been handled (actually I don't remember how often the concept comes up before the Archer fight) the concept of a borrowed ideal and that being something that bothers Shirou will kind of come out of left field. Doubly so because it becomes a big deal once Gil comes into play (what with the entire power being copying/borrowing blah blah).

Basically this is the one point where I see the perspective of the "oh my god this adaptation sucks no monologues" crowd.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010



College Slice

Twiddy posted:

One thing that's kind of annoying is that because of the way the new adaptation has been handled (actually I don't remember how often the concept comes up before the Archer fight) the concept of a borrowed ideal and that being something that bothers Shirou will kind of come out of left field. Doubly so because it becomes a big deal once Gil comes into play (what with the entire power being copying/borrowing blah blah).

Basically this is the one point where I see the perspective of the "oh my god this adaptation sucks no monologues" crowd.

I think it comes up during the Archer fight.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


I'm rewatching Fate/Zero and it just occurred to me how Kotomine's voice sounds older than Tokiomi's even though the latter's supposed to be about the same age/older than the former. Weird.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Compendium posted:

I'm rewatching Fate/Zero and it just occurred to me how Kotomine's voice sounds older than Tokiomi's even though the latter's supposed to be about the same age/older than the former. Weird.

Being voiced by Joji Nakata will do that.

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


Huh, just noticed this thread existed. Weird. Anyway, I like ASW fighting games, how does Melty Blood stack up to the most recent ones?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



melty blood is a thousand times better than blazblue

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


it already has a more likable cast to work with so this does not surprise me. does nanaya suck? because if there's anyone i want to play as it's nanaya and if he sucked that would be a shame

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RerPYUwc_C8

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



also nanaya owns and has lots of really flashy combos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_O4LGo1yBc

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



if you really wanna swag tho, you pick ryougi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdgLfnwjjEQ

Chalupa Picada
Jan 13, 2009



Endorph posted:

also nanaya owns and has lots of really flashy combos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_O4LGo1yBc

Nanaya beating Ryougi?

*walls of spergy text about type moon power levels*












but yeah, melty blood games are a lot of fun!

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



and if you want to be a gigantic piece of poo poo, just like me, you pick nrvnqsr

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


i'll play as all of them probably. all the shikis except that loser tohno (who even likes that idiot.) also i've completely forgotten who kouma even is but his theme is pretty cool and he has muscles overwhelming so he looks cool

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



kouma is the guy that killed the nanaya clan when shiki was but a babe. shiki has nightmares about him in kagetsu tohya.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUbFlkXBkhI

unregistered hypercam2, but he also has some killer combos

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



I like Wallachia because his voice clips are Iori tier.

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


are kouma's fists lighting people on fire

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



alcharagia posted:

are kouma's fists lighting people on fire
yes

and he goes HEHEHE when he gets hit by a strong move

and he slam dunks people

kouma owns is what im saying

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


Endorph posted:

yes

and he goes HEHEHE when he gets hit by a strong move

and he slam dunks people

kouma owns is what im saying

main found

animatorZed
Jan 2, 2008
falling down

Endorph posted:

also nanaya owns and has lots of really flashy combos

There is only one applicable shiki video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJwPOefYnoI

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


I play fighting games for the plot, do I have to play all the melty bloods or is the plot always the same.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


If I have to play more than one then what is the correct order. If only one then what is the definitive melty blood experience

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Play the story mode in Re:Act and then the Arcade modes in Act:Cadenza and Actress Again

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



you could just read the manga, i remember it being pretty decent. i dont think it covers actress again's plot though, but actress again's plot is p. much just 'ryougi kills archetype earth'

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



The manga adapts a tweaked version of story mode route 1. The Re:Act manga doesn't actually cover Re:Act introduced content, but story mode route 8.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


Why would I read a mang when I could be bad at videogames instead

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


Right now.I'm reading fate for the first time and I've gotten to where saber shows up. I can see where the complaints about sexism come from because shirou first reactions are "she's pretty" followed by "girls fighting? I can't let girls fight".

I'd be internet mad if this weren't like 20 years old and the fact that the guy has learned from it.


Also even though it's early in the fate route the game has already mentioned serious ideology and it's pretty clear how impossible that is so I'm looking forward to the game exploring that in future routes.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

If it was released today and was a mainstream game the internet would have a billion articles complaining about that poo poo without a single writer getting to the point where Shirou's retarded sexist views get destroyed

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

He gets pathetically murked by women who far outrank him on physical or magical strength on a lot of dead ends like Saber Alter, Rider, Caster, Dark Sakura, Ilya and even Rin iirc? Also Bazett+Avenger and Caren on H/A :p

rvm
May 6, 2013


I loved how in HF, when Tohsaka asked him if he can do something she can't, Shirou's first thought was about cooking.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


TheLovablePlutonis posted:

If it was released today and was a mainstream game the internet would have a billion articles complaining about that poo poo without a single writer getting to the point where Shirou's retarded sexist views get destroyed

I'm looking forward to it

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

TheLovablePlutonis posted:

If it was released today and was a mainstream game the internet would have a billion articles complaining about that poo poo without a single writer getting to the point where Shirou's retarded sexist views get destroyed
It's also something he keeps telling himself because of his crazy philosophy where he always has to sacrifice himself for other people, even if they're much better qualified than he is.

Shirou is a great example of a character who thinks about certain things in a way that's a little different than the writer, which apparently confuses a lot of people.

Sylphid
Aug 3, 2012


Yeah, the sexism complaints I never really understood, because it's not as if the story bears out Shirou's concerns about a woman's ability to fight, or that his views are ever endorsed by the author at all. His views are the understandable product of a very damaged mind, but that's all they really are.

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

It's worth mentioning that for a pretty long time the only part of the story that was readily available in English was the Fate route via the anime, meaning the tail end of Shirou's arc from UBW/HF never happened.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


The most heinous misogyny.

edit; that said, while I understand it being brought up as a point especially when it's so prominent in the Fate route and DEEN adaption, it's kind of silly to just say that's a defining feature of the series or that it's even that important in the long run.

Compendium fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 23, 2015

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



a lot of people probably quit playing around the fate route

and yeah shirou's a little annoying in the early going of fate and i feel like some of the 'girls cant fight' stuff could have been cut just to make him less so but i wouldn't really call it sexism on nasu's part *or* on shirou's part.

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Compendium posted:

The most heinous misogyny.

edit; that said, while I understand it being brought up as a point especially when it's so prominent in the Fate route and DEEN adaption, it's kind of silly to just say that's a defining feature of the series or that it's even that important in the long run.
Yeah... I mean, as a general rule, people don't think. Thinking is an active process, and there's only so much you can think about. Most people don't care to spend that on an anime/visual novel that tickles them wrong for some impulsive reason or another.

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

I guess the question is "how do you objectively judge a piece of art that looks X but has hidden depths Y if most people aren't going to invest twenty hours into finding the part where Y becomes visible."

Twiddy
May 17, 2008

To the man who loves art for its own sake, it is frequently in its least important and lowliest manifestations that the keenest pleasure is to be derived.

Rand Brittain posted:

I guess the question is "how do you objectively judge a piece of art that looks X but has hidden depths Y if most people aren't going to invest twenty hours into finding the part where Y becomes visible."
You don't have to get 20 hours into a visual novel to realize that sometimes (in fact, in many fantastic works) the protagonist isn't a literal mouth piece of the author and that simply assuming that is literally novice level critical thought and literary analysis.

Basically, when it comes to this, most people's fundamental approach to looking at the work is flawed. Hence the "not bothering to think" part.

EDIT:

I guess I should emphasize, I'm not necessarily calling the people who hastily came to this conclusion idiots. The point of my last post was just stating a flaw that all people share, including myself. However, there are signs even early on that Shirou is really unhinged (or as most people first think, "stupid") and that a lot of what he says isn't supported by the world he's in. If someone applies thought and effort they should be able to see that far before the 20 hour mark. It isn't an investment in time that prevents some or most people from seeing this (although time does help as it gets increasingly blatant), but in looking at what's there for what it is.

EDIT EDIT:

I am, however, critical of people who have put a lot of thought into it and still came to that conclusion.

Twiddy fucked around with this message at 20:06 on May 23, 2015

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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Twiddy posted:

You don't have to get 20 hours into a visual novel to realize that sometimes (in fact, in many fantastic works) the protagonist isn't a literal mouth piece of the author and that simply assuming that is literally novice level critical thought and literary analysis.

Basically, when it comes to this, most people's fundamental approach to looking at the work is flawed. Hence the "not bothering to think" part.

Bear in mind that there's a lot of fiction where the main character is an authorial mouthpiece. Basically, there needs to be a certain minimum level of audience trust in the author, and when it isn't forthcoming, it's often the fault, not so much of the author or the audience, but of other authors.

Also, I think a lot of people calling F/SN sexist are complaining about things other than Shirou's characterization (and Nasu himself seems to agree with some of their points).

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