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Irony Be My Shield
Jul 29, 2012

PRETTY SURE THAT ONE'S SARCASM, BOSS



I don't think the exposition ever really lets up.

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Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I guess it's more that it's more boring exposition about the basic workings of the HGW. The first third of Fate right around when Saber first gets summoned was by far the hardest to get through, which wasn't helped by Shirou constantly fretting about being in close proximity to *gasp* a girl for more than 5 minutes.

Raenir Salazar posted:

Fate always stuck me as a more standard by the numbers Urban-Fantasy which was needed for the other two routes to make any sense or be as good as they are. I read Gil differently, he struck me as slightly less villainous in Fate; antagonistic sure, but in a more standard love triangle ish way. In Fate it seems like he's your enemy mostly because he's competing with Shirou for Saber (And did help out vs Caster).
I also couldn't help but wonder why Gil only ever uses that casual outfit with the white jacket/hair up in Fate where as in all of the other routes and most other works he has that biker-jacket like look.

Mederlock
Jun 23, 2012

You won't recognize Canada when I'm through with it

Grimey Drawer

I found some footage of Gil experimenting with his style

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0J62bwUCxg

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



Nate RFB posted:

I guess it's more that it's more boring exposition about the basic workings of the HGW. The first third of Fate right around when Saber first gets summoned was by far the hardest to get through, which wasn't helped by Shirou constantly fretting about being in close proximity to *gasp* a girl for more than 5 minutes.
I also couldn't help but wonder why Gil only ever uses that casual outfit with the white jacket/hair up in Fate where as in all of the other routes and most other works he has that biker-jacket like look.

He realized Archer was going to be in the war longer than intended and realized he needed to fit his style to oppose it.

Dr Pepper
Feb 4, 2012

Don't like it? well...



Nate RFB posted:

I also couldn't help but wonder why Gil only ever uses that casual outfit with the white jacket/hair up in Fate where as in all of the other routes and most other works he has that biker-jacket like look.

Don't forget that one Shinji outfit that I think appears in only one bad end.

Myurton
Jan 2, 2004

I <3 Asuka,
omg anime fag

Dr Pepper posted:

Don't forget that one Shinji outfit that I think appears in only one bad end.

I don't think I remember this outfit. Was it any good?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009




this one?

Captain Baal
Oct 22, 2010



He legit raided Gil's closet for that jacket.

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Not a big loss for Gil, I'd imagine.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009



Beef Waifu posted:

He legit raided Gil's closet for that jacket.
everything about shinji and gil becomes 10x funnier if you imagine shinji as gil's annoying wannabe little brother

Nate RFB
Jan 17, 2005



Clapping Larry

I liked the way they introduced Shirou to Ea in the latest episode, it never really made sense to me why Gil would show it off against an opponent as lowly as Shirou given his personality or how Shirou survived even a slight hit of it in the first place (isn't there some bullshit handwave about how Archer projected Rho Aias or something?).

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

Runa
Feb 13, 2011






That's a bit on the nose.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


It's been a while (3 months), but I feel like posting about the mythological bases of the Servants again.

Fifth War Servants, part 1: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3671286&userid=185993#post436718370
Fifth War Servants, part 2 (plus Avenger and Bazett): http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3671286&userid=185993#post437401489
Fourth War Servants, part 1: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3671286&userid=185993&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post442550886

Iskander/Alexander the Great (Rider):
  • The title “King of Conquerors” has been applied to Alexander in print before, but, as in the case of “King of Knights” Arthur, this is probably coincidental: https://books.google.com/books?id=i...rors%22&f=false
  • Rider is taller than the historical Alexander and has a different hair color, but this isn’t an error; Waver points out that he looks different from the descriptions of him in biographies.
  • One thing I’ve always found rather silly about the cult of Alexander is the idea that he “conquered the world.” It was refreshing to see Rider look at a map and point out that his empire was actually not very large in the grand scheme of things.
  • Alexander was most likely bisexual (in today’s terms) and is even credited with introducing pederasty to Afghanistan. Somehow, though, I find Urobuchi’s claim in an interview that Rider would be interested in a relationship with Kayneth a bit implausible. :v:
  • Alexander’s mother claimed that Alexander’s father was Zeus, although he may not actually have any divine blood in this Nasuverse; the writeup for his Divinity skill makes it ambiguous whether he has the skill legitimately or only as a result of his reputation.
  • One of the most famous legends about Alexander concerns the Gordian Knot. Supposedly Alexander “solved” a complicated knot by cutting it with his sword. This must be why Rider’s chariot is called the Gordius Wheel.

Bluebeard/Gilles de Rais (Caster):
  • As gross as Gilles is in Zero, Urobuchi actually seems to have toned him down a bit; the sexual aspects of his crimes seem to have been too much even for the Nasuverse.
  • On the other hand, Gilles apparently expressed contrition immediately before his execution, which isn’t reflected in his characterization in Zero.
  • The real Gilles’s experiments in demonology apparently failed, but his instructor in black magic was indeed named Prelati.
  • The origin of Prelati’s Spellbook (the sunken city of R’lyeh) and the incantation used to summon the giant aquatic monster reference H. P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos.
  • The novel Gilles et Jeanne, portraying Gilles’s descent into madness and dwelling extensively on the contrast between Jeanne’s purity and Gilles’s impurity, his obsession with her, etc. may have been an inspiration for Gilles’s portrayal in Zero.
  • The folktale of Bluebeard, who murders his wives and hides their bodies in a secret chamber, doesn’t really bear much resemblance to the actual actions of Gilles, whose victims were unrelated children, but the belief that Gilles inspired the Bluebeard story continues to be popular. Thus, Gilles tells Uryu that Bluebeard is the name he’s most likely familiar with Gilles under.

“Hundred-Faced” Hassan-i-Sabbah (Assassin):
  • For the Hassans in general, see Hassan-i-Sabbah (True Assassin) in the second Fifth War post.
  • Deliberately induced split personalities may not be purely fictional. Maybe. Supposedly the CIA’s Project Bluebird accomplished something along those lines, but I take the idea with more than a grain of salt.

Lancelot (Berseker):
  • The basis of Knight of Honor is made explicit in the light novel: it derives from a story in which Lancelot used a tree branch as an improvised weapon.
    Similarly, For Someone’s Glory is based on the various times Lancelot fought incognito.
  • The name Arondight for Lancelot’s sword is attributed to “medieval legends” in the 1897 Century Dictionary and Cyclopedia, but the oldest source I can find for the name is this 1878 article: http://books.google.com/books?id=Lv...ondight&f=false

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

You know, Aiko...
I really wanted to be killed by you.


Silver2195 posted:


Bluebeard/Gilles de Rais (Caster):
  • As gross as Gilles is in Zero, Urobuchi actually seems to have toned him down a bit; the sexual aspects of his crimes seem to have been too much even for the Nasuverse.
  • On the other hand, Gilles apparently expressed contrition immediately before his execution, which isn’t reflected in his characterization in Zero.
  • The real Gilles’s experiments in demonology apparently failed, but his instructor in black magic was indeed named Prelati.
  • The origin of Prelati’s Spellbook (the sunken city of R’lyeh) and the incantation used to summon the giant aquatic monster reference H. P. Lovecraft’s Cthulhu Mythos.
  • The novel Gilles et Jeanne, portraying Gilles’s descent into madness and dwelling extensively on the contrast between Jeanne’s purity and Gilles’s impurity, his obsession with her, etc. may have been an inspiration for Gilles’s portrayal in Zero.
  • The folktale of Bluebeard, who murders his wives and hides their bodies in a secret chamber, doesn’t really bear much resemblance to the actual actions of Gilles, whose victims were unrelated children, but the belief that Gilles inspired the Bluebeard story continues to be popular. Thus, Gilles tells Uryu that Bluebeard is the name he’s most likely familiar with Gilles under.


Everything I've read (which isn't much, honestly) has said that Gilles d'Rais' trial was based pretty much entirely on circumstantial evidence and likely false testimony from people who has something to gain from the confiscation of his assets. In fact, the Duke of Brittany, who was the prosecutor, received the titles to d'Rais' lands after his conviction. (i.e., What Caster says to Ryuunosuke about how he was tried because they wanted his land and it was all a big conspiracy by the local religious and secular leadership was pretty much true.)

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

AlternateNu posted:

Everything I've read (which isn't much, honestly) has said that Gilles d'Rais' trial was based pretty much entirely on circumstantial evidence and likely false testimony from people who has something to gain from the confiscation of his assets. In fact, the Duke of Brittany, who was the prosecutor, received the titles to d'Rais' lands after his conviction. (i.e., What Caster says to Ryuunosuke about how he was tried because they wanted his land and it was all a big conspiracy by the local religious and secular leadership was pretty much true.)

I personally found it interesting how Gilles isn't such a complete sociopath in that he doesn't know what he's doing. He seems somewhat similar to Kirei in that he seems to somewhat understand his actions are wrong (Probably more so than Kirei in his observable guilt); but sees his lack of consequence as evidence that the universe is cruel.

I'm vaguely interested in how Joan viewed Gilles if he looked like that (obviously evil) in the Hundred Years War. Was she just such a 'innocent' person that she saw the good in everyone like Shirou? Or did he only get disfigured as a result of being burned?

The only thing I'm disappointed with in Rider is that his sword, the one he presumably used to cut the mentioned knot doesn't have an ability associated with it.

Plutonis
Mar 25, 2011

lol

He was not a bug-eyed freak when Jeanne was alive and she was pretty appalled to learn the stuff he did on her name on Apocrypha because when she died he was her good friend.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


You know, I just realized that the grail being full of evil (via Avenger) is pretty much the same thing as what Kotomine says to Shirou in the beginning: "Rejoice, your wish for a villain to overcome has been granted." Does that have anything to do with anything? It seems like it'd be important, but I can't remember that theme coming up ever again. I mean, the theme that "the naive wish to be good is equivalent to the wish that evil was something external." You'd think that would be part of Kotomine's character arc, but... nope. Or is it? I guess he had the opposite wish, that evil was something internal that wasn't his fault? But then he's kinda right?

I do not know how the game feels about this.

Apocron
Dec 5, 2005


Anyone else here gonna try out Grand Order when it releases?

Allarion
May 16, 2009

がんばルビ!


Apocron posted:

Anyone else here gonna try out Grand Order when it releases?

If it's a decent phone game (I assume it'll be gatcha like every other phone game), and if it's translated I'd probably try it. Still haven't felt like making a Japanese itunes account just to play Japanese phone games, but I know a bunch of other goons do it for certain gatcha games, since the Japanese versions tend to be more generous with premium currency than the global versions.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010


Long ass-screeds.

Dismissive, tedious, bad faith poster.

Embodiment of the Dunning - Kruger effect.

No joke, desperate to be made a mod of D&D.


Put this toxic loser on ignore.


College Slice

Clarste posted:

You know, I just realized that the grail being full of evil (via Avenger) is pretty much the same thing as what Kotomine says to Shirou in the beginning: "Rejoice, your wish for a villain to overcome has been granted." Does that have anything to do with anything? It seems like it'd be important, but I can't remember that theme coming up ever again. I mean, the theme that "the naive wish to be good is equivalent to the wish that evil was something external." You'd think that would be part of Kotomine's character arc, but... nope. Or is it? I guess he had the opposite wish, that evil was something internal that wasn't his fault? But then he's kinda right?

I do not know how the game feels about this.

I think either UBW or HF directly read into this theme. The former is that in order to have people he can protect their must be evil to be defeated (and thus suffering must exist for their to be good, which is rather twisted and in character for Kotomine).

In HF this is presented in a more deeply personal way when the person he's saving is just Sakura, and the person he's saving her from is well, Sakura.

What's a gatcha game? I want to play it if/when translated for the story.

Eej
Jun 17, 2007

HEAVYARMS

It's like those machines where you put a dollar in and turn the crank and out comes a capsule with the 5th Mario toy when you really wanted a Luigi.

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.


I just finished playing Fate/Extra with Archer as my servant. I actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I wasn't a huge fan of the rock/paper/scissors combat system (I ended up just looking up enemy patterns and working out a logic puzzle every time for which attacks had the highest chance of succeeding/not hurting me). I think the whole pattern of learning about your opponent's servant before fighting them was pretty cool and interesting. Shinji being an 8 year old super-hacker and a huge dick (but not outright evil/rapey) was pretty funny. Also, the end boss guy was hilarious in how much talking he does. I think it took me about 15 minutes just to read through everything he had to say. I guess he was just lonely and felt the need to talk a whole bunch before attempting to kill you.

I started a play-through with the Caster servant. She seems really obnoxious so far, but I felt like it would be too easy to play as Saber after having already done Archer (who is apparently more difficult). The first few rounds will probably be really boring, but I want to see the Rani route content (I did Rin's route first).

I hope that someone translates CCC at some point. I know some Japanese and could probably make sense of what's going on, but it would be a huge chore given my not-fluent skill level. I really want to play with Gilgamesh. :(

Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jun 15, 2015

Ytlaya
Nov 13, 2005

0.000% of Communism has been built. Evil child-murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit-eating grin.


edit: double post, whoops

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Apocron posted:

Anyone else here gonna try out Grand Order when it releases?

I want to for sure, but I wish it was a web browser game instead of an phone game, like Touken Ranbu.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Ytlaya posted:

I just finished playing Fate/Extra with Archer as my servant. I actually enjoyed it quite a bit, even though I wasn't a huge fan of the rock/paper/scissors combat system (I ended up just looking up enemy patterns and working out a logic puzzle every time for which attacks had the highest chance of succeeding/not hurting me). I think the whole pattern of learning about your opponent's servant before fighting them was pretty cool and interesting. Shinji being an 8 year old super-hacker and a huge dick (but not outright evil/rapey) was pretty funny. Also, the end boss guy was hilarious in how much talking he does. I think it took me about 15 minutes just to read through everything he had to say. I guess he was just lonely and felt the need to talk a whole bunch before attempting to kill you.

I started a play-through with the Caster servant. She seems really obnoxious so far, but I felt like it would be too easy to play as Saber after having already done Archer (who is apparently more difficult). The first few rounds will probably be really boring, but I want to see the Rani route content (I did Rin's route first).

I hope that someone translates CCC at some point. I know some Japanese and could probably make sense of what's going on, but it would be a huge chore given my not-fluent skill level. I really want to play with Gilgamesh. :(

There's a translation here (with Gil as the Servant), although it stops right before the end: https://tsukinoura.wordpress.com/entry-index/

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



You should stop playing Caster and do Saber because she is good.

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


Extra Saber is the bomb diggity

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


What's the deal with all the shikis

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Namtab posted:

What's the deal with all the shikis

Eh, parallel universe shenanigans. All you need to know it that Tohno Shiki is a bugfucking nuts rear end in a top hat while Ryougi Shiki is superior and a badass.

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008

YOU'RE NOBODY


Namtab posted:

What's the deal with all the shikis

"---Shut, up----"
The incessant racket does not stop.
Shikishiki.
The unnatural sounds.
I can hear them coming from behind me.

Shikishiki. Shikishiki. Shikishiki.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


So is girl shiki a plant? All she has is water.

This is what I took from kara no kyoukai 1

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


A time when SHIKI still existed within shiki?

What's up with all the shikis, chapter 2 preview

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

You know, Aiko...
I really wanted to be killed by you.


Namtab posted:

So is girl shiki a plant? All she has is water.

This is what I took from kara no kyoukai 1

Ryougi is the original Shiki before all that Tohno bullshit decided to rear its ugly head in the Nasuverse. :colbert:

And she ends up developing a taste for a delicious foreign-sounding frozen treat. :3:

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Namtab posted:

So is girl shiki a plant? All she has is water.

This is what I took from kara no kyoukai 1

This is quite possible

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.


AlternateNu posted:

Ryougi is the original Shiki before all that Tohno bullshit decided to rear its ugly head in the Nasuverse. :colbert:

And she ends up developing a taste for a delicious foreign-sounding frozen treat. :3:

Correction: she's all three original shikis.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


It's five hours in but finally the second movie stopped being the guy who looks like real shiki stalking girl shiki

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010


Karen has always been powerful


So you've got girl shiki and boy SHIKI who is girl shikis urge to kill. No sign of the mystic eyes so there's prob a third shiki for the eyes

I really didn't get movie 2

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D


Kara no Kyoukai is trippy as gently caress when viewing it the first time...

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Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



Namtab posted:

So you've got girl shiki and boy SHIKI who is girl shikis urge to kill. No sign of the mystic eyes so there's prob a third shiki for the eyes

I really didn't get movie 2

The movies aren't in chronological order either, just to make things worse.

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