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girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


100YrsofAttitude posted:

Poison mushroom, I know not much has really changed, but what made you so set on lamp? You still feel that way?
I've played with Lamp in other games, and there's at least some semblance of effort on D1. Here, he threw out a jokevote in the middle of discussions, and very nearly ended up sidetracking conversation because of it. He hasn't contributed much of his thoughts, and didn't vote anyone or mention any feelings about anyone.

At the last minute, he said he'd rather no-lynch than lynch Maltose, but he said nothing of the sort before, and said earlier that D1 lynches are essentially random. This doesn't match up in my mind. For me, it reads like distancing from a known town lynch.

In conclusion, ##vote Lampsacus

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tithin
Nov 14, 2003

[Grandmaster Tactician]



First up, thanks for basically the first serious post of the day.

100YrsofAttitude posted:

First serious post he makes is a defensive, "ugh I'm ALWAYS suspicious guys." It seems like a weak defense especially when he was under absolutely no pressure, just kitiara's gut. Kitiara does bring up how he's just content-posting rather than making any strong claims. A game he keeps up.

For perspective I've not played any serious games in 6 months, and this week I've played three games where I turned out to be town, but have been flagged as suspicious / scum on Day 1 for no real reason. It's weird to me and I can't figure out what it is about the way I post that gets me flagged super high on the scumdar straight from the firing line.

quote:

What most gets me his he's the one to first advocate the no-lynch. Lynching is our ONLY tool to win this game. If we don't lynch we don't get scum. Mis-lynching is the terrible risk but we really can't afford not to lynch and for me no-lynch advocating is scummy through and through. What's worse is his final vote on Maltose.

Disagree - Mislynching on Day 1 (assuming Scum chooses to kill on N1), in a game with 9 players makes the game dramatically easier for scum to win by cutting us down to 2/3 of our starting roster. A mislynch is essentially going to make the game a lot easier for the kill.

quote:

Distancing himself already from his vote in case it goes sour (in which case Maltose is proved town and tithin get's credit for having the right assumption).

His play is just so defensive because, I think, he's got something to hide.

I distanced myself from my vote because I didn't like doing it, and I've stated why both in this post and in previous ones.

The only reason I went with it is due to Maltose's push to try and get at least some sort of lynch (using the same logic you yourself applied above, that any lynch is better than no lynch).

My plays are defensive because I frequently find myself under attack in the last few games I've played, so that's possibly carried forward. Sorry.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


100YrsofAttitude posted:

His play is just so defensive because, I think, he's got something to hide.
This is a good case, I think. I mean, every game I've been with tithin in, he's been like that, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean they aren't good reasons.

The overdefensive "ugh, someone always thinks I'm scummy" reminds me of what I used to say when I was new to Mafia. But he's been in over a dozen games, now, counting this one, so that doesn't really fly any more.

Would vote tithin.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Man, that was some really lovely timing on my part.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

[Grandmaster Tactician]



Poison Mushroom posted:

This is a good case, I think. I mean, every game I've been with tithin in, he's been like that, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean they aren't good reasons.

The overdefensive "ugh, someone always thinks I'm scummy" reminds me of what I used to say when I was new to Mafia. But he's been in over a dozen games, now, counting this one, so that doesn't really fly any more.

Would vote tithin.

Pmush you've been in every one of those games I'm referring to - you know what I'm talking about :smith:

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


tithin posted:

Pmush you've been in every one of those games I'm referring to - you know what I'm talking about :smith:
I do. And it happened to me, too. But let me set aside the game for a bit of mafia dadding momming.

If you're tired of people thinking you're scummy, complaining about it is the last thing you want to do. Instead, look at what kinds of things during the early days actually help town, and which things don't get criticized. That'll improve both your town game (because you know what helps), and your scum game (because you know how to fake what helps).

Anyways, I feel bad for you, but overdefensiveness is still usually a sign of scum.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008



I said day one was random and then later we should no lynch. If the jump from one to the other was scummy lynch away.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Lampsacus posted:

I said day one was random and then later we should no lynch. If the jump from one to the other was scummy lynch away.
So, what should we do Day 1 instead, then?

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Talking about who to lynch, getting conversation going, and then rereading everyone's comments in the context of the flip is the easiest way to start getting actual content to evaluate. I didn't hammer because I'm fairly certain Mr. Maltose is town, but the push for whether to lynch him or not at least got people talking. More posts means more to evaluate later on, and more information for town.

Trying to shut up that conversation, and contributing nothing to it, is anti-town.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008



Depends on the game. I don't think I'm alone when I say nobody stood out as scummy. Poor posting. Hell, the mod called us out on it just now. Anyway, I'm not going to omgus vote you back pm because you seem legit so far.

So does tithin actually. I'll have another read and try read between lines.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008



Arguing against a collective action, lynching m, is not necessarily shutting down conversation though. Hm.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008



Say with a straight face the mr. M wagon wasn't pretty much a random lynch for the sake of d1 lynch.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Lampsacus posted:

Say with a straight face the mr. M wagon wasn't pretty much a random lynch for the sake of d1 lynch.
It was pretty much a random lynch. But that's not the issue. The issue is that you've been, up until right now, completely avoiding any conversation with depth beyond "I don't like this lynch".

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Poison Mushroom posted:

It was pretty much a random lynch. But that's not the issue. The issue is that you've been, up until right now, completely avoiding any conversation with depth beyond "I don't like this lynch".

I like your arguments and frankly your involvement. Lamp hasn't been all there. You've got what seems to me mainly a meta argument but lined up with his actual comments it seems pretty fair because Lamp's actually not trying to rectify your critiques but just defending himself.


As for tithin I feel for you. In light of your recent spate of town games where you get called out I think that at least explains that comment. I still don't agree with you on the mis-lynching but there you go. Make a case, I'm by no means 100% sold on my vote on you as of yet because frankly I find everyone but poison mushroom to be still somewhat scummy. Goodness is... ok. I'm not sure what to think about goodness? What your takes on them?

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?


I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch but eh

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Pinterest Mom posted:

i forgot about deadline yesterday sorry :shobon:

Also not to be a dick but come on. It's not so big a deal that you forgot deadline, I ended up falling asleep, but barely posted at all D1 and when you do post D2 all you saw fit to say was that? You're a complete non-entity and it's bothersome because I can hardly consider as friend or foe though by nature of the game you have to be one or the other. This isn't so much as suspicious as it is frustrating but your non-action isn't helping anyone either.

In a similar but more pointed way is kitiara's posts. She claims that tithin is just :effort: posting to seem active though to be fair her own posts aren't much better.

My weaker argument is this one:

Kitiara posted:

I was at work, follow by sleep. I just woke up now. So to answer all questions, I prefer butter on my toast. I don't understand why anyone would like crunchy peanut butter, and if you were scum, how would you answer this question?

Pretty much exactly like this:

"I'm not really sure how I'd answer as scum. I would think about it a whole lot and carefully word my phrase, probably responding far later than I would otherwise. The pleasure I find in playing town is not having to censor myself in anyway. I may be often mis-interpreted but since I know I'm being honest it doesn't bother me as much. I get a terribly guilty conscience as scum"

This is me word by word. I keep wishing to be given a scum rule because it feels like it'd be more fun, but in reality I'd probably over-think and stress over every post I make and I can't see how that would be fun.

where she makes just a small extra note to what I had already said. Easy participation.

Kitiara posted:

We don't really have much information to go on, but out of everyone who has posted I find goodness and tithin the most suspicious. Goodness seems to be voting people randomly and wanting to stop discussion. While tithin seems to only post to not appear MIA without really adding anything at all. I'm also kind of eh on poisoned mushroom, but we'll see.

This is worse though. Again slight easy reads but for me most damning is that she never votes. I suppose it's a vote to no lynch, but she could've at least voted her own reads and made the effort to convert people to those targets. But she didn't do that at all. That sort of non-confrontational attitude seems like scum playing it safe, trying to step on no toes while remaining somewhat concealed. I feel it's the weaker of my cases, obviously not helped by the fact that kitiara's posted so little. Still would vote her as well.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






goodness posted:

I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch but eh

It's not the easiest thing to do because you don't know who actively supported, forgot to vote, or wanted to vote elsewhere. All evidence becomes hearsay which is close to useless.

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

[Grandmaster Tactician]



100YrsofAttitude posted:

As for tithin I feel for you. In light of your recent spate of town games where you get called out I think that at least explains that comment. I still don't agree with you on the mis-lynching but there you go. Make a case, I'm by no means 100% sold on my vote on you as of yet because frankly I find everyone but poison mushroom to be still somewhat scummy. Goodness is... ok. I'm not sure what to think about goodness? What your takes on them?

It's mainly a difference of opinion, to my mind with small games, a mislynch on day 1 is the difference between winning and losing, and being frank, this is a small game. We gently caress up at the start, we don't have much, if any, breathing room.

I think goodness's first official vote was weak, and I think the reason given was weak. I'm also not entirely sure it wasn't a joke, but the fact that there was no later unvote is suspicious because to vote for someone on such weak grounds (:ironicat:) is pretty scummy.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of other content there that I can read as being scummy or not.

:justpost:

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






tithin posted:

It's mainly a difference of opinion, to my mind with small games, a mislynch on day 1 is the difference between winning and losing, and being frank, this is a small game. We gently caress up at the start, we don't have much, if any, breathing room.

I think goodness's first official vote was weak, and I think the reason given was weak. I'm also not entirely sure it wasn't a joke, but the fact that there was no later unvote is suspicious because to vote for someone on such weak grounds (:ironicat:) is pretty scummy.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of other content there that I can read as being scummy or not.

:justpost:

Good answer. Thoughtful and fair. I know I'm mainly pulling at straws and it's hard to figure things out at this stage but I like your tone ##unvote.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


tithin posted:

It's mainly a difference of opinion, to my mind with small games, a mislynch on day 1 is the difference between winning and losing, and being frank, this is a small game. We gently caress up at the start, we don't have much, if any, breathing room.

I think goodness's first official vote was weak, and I think the reason given was weak. I'm also not entirely sure it wasn't a joke, but the fact that there was no later unvote is suspicious because to vote for someone on such weak grounds (:ironicat:) is pretty scummy.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of other content there that I can read as being scummy or not.

:justpost:
This is better.

How do you feel about Lamp? And, on another point, how do you feel about me, and 100's statement of me as probably-town?

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

[Grandmaster Tactician]



Poison Mushroom posted:

This is better.

How do you feel about Lamp? And, on another point, how do you feel about me, and 100's statement of me as probably-town?

Lamp is difficult for me to read, if I look at it from a "probably scum" perspective, he's flagging relatively high on there for me due to the flip flop vote first on 100, and then later for no vote.

The vote could be fake, the reason given could be a joke, but at the same time it could also not - but it's certainly curious that he flipped so quickly from "lynch" to "no lynch", once people started getting behind the functionally random day 1 lynch on <name forgotten cos I'm distracted>.

I'm not convinced he's scum, but yeah, he's certainly worth watching.

As for you pmush, I'm getting a town vibe from - I haven't done a full read of you (yet), but I haven't noticed anything overtly scummy.

Mr. Maltose
Feb 16, 2011

The Guffless Girlverine


tithin posted:

The only reason I went with it is due to Maltose's push to try and get at least some sort of lynch

My what now?

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

[Grandmaster Tactician]



Wrong name - sorry.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009


100YrsofAttitude posted:

This is worse though. Again slight easy reads but for me most damning is that she never votes. I suppose it's a vote to no lynch, but she could've at least voted her own reads and made the effort to convert people to those targets. But she didn't do that at all. That sort of non-confrontational attitude seems like scum playing it safe, trying to step on no toes while remaining somewhat concealed. I feel it's the weaker of my cases, obviously not helped by the fact that kitiara's posted so little. Still would vote her as well.

Slight easy reads is all we can have on day one. I have no abilities, so I'm not sure what you expect so early in the game. I try to not vote unless I feel very confident on someone. This may not be the right attitude, but it doesn't make me scum.

goodness posted:

I am not voting randomly though at all. I have voted officially once, and I posted my reason for it. My first "vote" was a joke which is why I made sure it would not even count it on the votefinder.

Am I missing a post somewhere? Where exactly is your reason for voting? Because "Who are you to judge when joke phase is over? Seems like you are trying a little too hard to push your agenda instead of just having fun..." is not good enough for me.

I'm torn between tithin and goodness, but tithin's later posts at least show some effort. So... Vote## goodness

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Kitiara posted:

Slight easy reads is all we can have on day one. I have no abilities, so I'm not sure what you expect so early in the game. I try to not vote unless I feel very confident on someone. This may not be the right attitude, but it doesn't make me scum.

I don't like lying when playing this game oddly enough to the point that if I'm scum I do my utmost to not type "I am town." I suppose I don't want to be called a bald-faced liar, I don't know it's dumb. The easiest way to go about this I find is just avoid talking about my role in the game as a whole.

Anyway, I've noticed that you've brought up your role, particularly your lack of powers twice. Your second post:

Kitiara posted:

Well it looks like I'm bland yet again :(. So unlike rl me! I guess let the lynching of butter begin!

and now your latest. It's strange because you don't mention alignment but just lack of powers. I know this isn't killer evidence or anything but I can't help read that you are telling the truth, but at the same time willfully omitting something else, perhaps for the sake of your own conscience as I tend to do, or for whatever other reason.

I still don't trust you kitiara. Also, your last vote on goodness, is it done with confidence or have you done it since I called you out on lightly casing + not voting?

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



100YrsofAttitude posted:

Also not to be a dick but come on. It's not so big a deal that you forgot deadline, I ended up falling asleep, but barely posted at all D1 and when you do post D2 all you saw fit to say was that? You're a complete non-entity and it's bothersome because I can hardly consider as friend or foe though by nature of the game you have to be one or the other. This isn't so much as suspicious as it is frustrating but your non-action isn't helping anyone either.
rude

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



tithin posted:

For perspective I've not played any serious games in 6 months, and this week I've played three games where I turned out to be town, but have been flagged as suspicious / scum on Day 1 for no real reason. It's weird to me and I can't figure out what it is about the way I post that gets me flagged super high on the scumdar straight from the firing line.
[...]
My plays are defensive because I frequently find myself under attack in the last few games I've played, so that's possibly carried forward. Sorry.
I'll back this up. tithin's meta is scummy.

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



yeah goodness is a bad guy. their posts are either actively trying to stifle discussion or making boring defenses of their own posting.

and also what is this

goodness posted:

I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch but eh


##vote goodness

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


##vote goodness

I like PMom's case. Would still rather lynch Lamp, though.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009


100YrsofAttitude posted:

I don't like lying when playing this game oddly enough to the point that if I'm scum I do my utmost to not type "I am town." I suppose I don't want to be called a bald-faced liar, I don't know it's dumb. The easiest way to go about this I find is just avoid talking about my role in the game as a whole.

Anyway, I've noticed that you've brought up your role, particularly your lack of powers twice. Your second post:
and now your latest. It's strange because you don't mention alignment but just lack of powers. I know this isn't killer evidence or anything but I can't help read that you are telling the truth, but at the same time willfully omitting something else, perhaps for the sake of your own conscience as I tend to do, or for whatever other reason.

I'm honestly starting to find your weird fixation on me to be very suspicious. Are you trying to get me lynch because I am making good arguments on your scummy friends? I honestly thought that my first post was I'm bland town again. So to calm your nerves: I am town. Trust me or not, time will show you I'm telling the truth, while there are a lot more suspicious people here than me.

"Also, your last vote on goodness, is it done with confidence or have you done it since I called you out on lightly casing + not voting?"

Both to be honest. Apparently random voting is the meta on these sort of games, so I thought I'd change my play. Mostly I'm voting for goodness to see if there's some sort of response on his/her part because up to know we've only really gotten joke 2 line posts.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Kitiara posted:

I'm honestly starting to find your weird fixation on me to be very suspicious.
Do you think he's scum, then? Because you're getting awful defensive but not doing much but talking about how town you obviously are.

If he's so suspicious? Let's see a case on him.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Kitiara posted:

I'm honestly starting to find your weird fixation on me to be very suspicious.

It's not a fixation persay rather than I found you and tithin to be the most suspicious. Tithin's cleared up my thoughts towards them, and I was just saying I wasn't all that convinced about your own innocence. That said I've pointed out a couple times in my posts that a lot of my feelings are based on pretty ridiculous observations and as such they have very little validity to build a case on. I'm not as confident as I was about tithin earlier to want to vote you, which is why I haven't.

Going to look at Maltose and Goodness again.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013







Sorry if that came out really insulting. I should've made more effort to phrase that better. Goodness's post you quoted:

goodness posted:

I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch but eh

is it damning for you because he's making no effort?

I don't know how I feel about goodness, I guess mainly neutral. He's been irreverent the whole way through, while not always helpful, is at least consistent. That consistency is the only reason I have to not vote him. I'd like to see him make a case.

Kitiara
Apr 21, 2009


Poison Mushroom posted:

Do you think he's scum, then? Because you're getting awful defensive but not doing much but talking about how town you obviously are.

If he's so suspicious? Let's see a case on him.

Seriously? I'm not getting awfully defensive. I'm quoting the posts that are attacking me and replying to them accordingly. I'm sure people would find it suspicious if I just ignored them (I know I would), so it's a bit of a drat if you do and drat if you don't situation, no?

Also, I am doing a lot more than talking about how town I am. I am the one who first made a case about goodness, which is a lot better than:

"I like PMom's case. Would still rather lynch Lamp, though."

You didn't even try. Plus you are okay with lynching goodness, when you feel stronger for lynching Lamp. Massive redflag to me. Also I'm not building a case on 100years, because I don't have enough to do so. I mostly think he is town, but I find it a bit odd how he was fixated on me, so I brought it up to him to see how he'd reply. I'm not going to start randomly accusing people with no base, not the way I play.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Maltose did really little D1 other than argue the validity of D1 and then... he hasn't done much today. It's as scummy as lack of activity is scummy but I think we're getting enough posts where we can vote with a bit more certainty. I'd still like to see him participate more though especially now that we're in D2, which according to his logic is the day the game gets serious.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013






Kitiara posted:

Seriously? I'm not getting awfully defensive. I'm quoting the posts that are attacking me and replying to them accordingly. I'm sure people would find it suspicious if I just ignored them (I know I would), so it's a bit of a drat if you do and drat if you don't situation, no?

Also, I am doing a lot more than talking about how town I am. I am the one who first made a case about goodness, which is a lot better than:

"I like PMom's case. Would still rather lynch Lamp, though."

You didn't even try. Plus you are okay with lynching goodness, when you feel stronger for lynching Lamp. Massive redflag to me. Also I'm not building a case on 100years, because I don't have enough to do so. I mostly think he is town, but I find it a bit odd how he was fixated on me, so I brought it up to him to see how he'd reply. I'm not going to start randomly accusing people with no base, not the way I play.

You're alright Kitiara, that totally reads like frustrated town, sorry about badgering you.

Lamp's another one of those players that I feel are scummy but because he's not really been saying all that much overall.

On the flipside I've been feeling pretty good about Mushroom considering their activity. Still the mainly meta case on Lamp doesn't sell me on that lynch. What's stranger is his vote on goodness, which is based on pinterest's case on goodness. The case being this post:

goodness posted:

I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch but eh

that strikes me as non-case as you can get personally. At that point you'd just think that mushroom wants action, however they refused to vote Maltose since he's "fairly certain Maltose is town". Mushroom was in the position to hammer but didn't. You refused to jump on the bandwagon once but got on goodness with just as little if not less of a case. Why do you think Maltose is town?

Pinterest Mom
Jun 9, 2009



100YrsofAttitude posted:

Sorry if that came out really insulting. I should've made more effort to phrase that better. Goodness's post you quoted:


is it damning for you because he's making no effort?
It's not that they're not making an effort, it's that they're trying to appear to be making an effort without making one. "I'm trying to see if I can gain any knowledge from the no lynch" conjures up images of him retreating into his basement hideout, burning the midnight oil and making crazy diagrams on the wall trying to figure it all out, but you know and I know and goodness knows that there's no knowledge to gain from the no lynch. It's an attempt to look like they're doing something without actually doing anything, and it's super scummy when paired with posts like "Content on the first couple days is completely irrelevant until late game when it can be analyzed. Trying to pick something out of nothing just leads to false arguments that everyone bandwagons on." that actively try to stifle conversation.

girl dick energy
Sep 30, 2009

You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?


Not in so many words, that's about what I got out of that post, too, once it was pointed out.

I'm actually quite interested to see goodness "gain knowledge from the no-lynch". I'm even more excited to see a case built on it! Who knows, maybe he'll actually find something.

Kitiara posted:

Plus you are okay with lynching goodness, when you feel stronger for lynching Lamp. Massive redflag to me.

Care to explain why it's a redflag why I want to lynch these two in particular?

goodness
Jan 3, 2012

When the light turns green, you go. When the light turns red, you stop. But what do you do when the light turns blue with orange and lavender spots?


Poison Mushroom posted:

Not in so many words, that's about what I got out of that post, too, once it was pointed out.

I'm actually quite interested to see goodness "gain knowledge from the no-lynch". I'm even more excited to see a case built on it! Who knows, maybe he'll actually find something.


Care to explain why it's a redflag why I want to lynch these two in particular?

I've been working all day and won't be able to post until late tonight probably, just FYI

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tithin
Nov 14, 2003

[Grandmaster Tactician]



I'm re-reading goodness at the minute and I'm getting kind of a scummy vibe - but at the same time I'm not sure I'm not just projecting (scum hunting will do that for you) - is goodness a newer player also? Is this how they typically post?

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