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merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

merk posted:

We're scum hunting in the wrong way. We need to be looking for people who are trying to find their scum buddies while themselves faking content. Ecco's d1 case on Ernie is a really lovely case, which is why I kind of think he's scum.

To be clear, I don't think Ecco had any confidence whatsoever in his case. He found something that he could argue against from a general mafia principle, so he went down that road thinking it was likely that Ernie was not one of his buddies.

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


merk posted:

To be clear, I don't think Ecco had any confidence whatsoever in his case. He found something that he could argue against from a general mafia principle, so he went down that road thinking it was likely that Ernie was not one of his buddies.

I disagree. It started as disagreement over mafia principals, but when he kept pushing it I realized something was up. He wasn't going about the issue like a townie would. He wasn't indicating that he was thinking about it critically, he wasn't trying to actually argue against me, he was just putting the idea out there. I sensed that he was doing it because he had a malicious intent.

Sure, I wasn't 100% about it, but I was ultimately right. He was proposing something that if even a few townies followed would turn the game into a crapshoot. He was doing it because he was not town, and a crapshoot is much more survivable for an individual whose only interests are their own survival.

Nevermind that he almost certainly did part of it as well to make himself appear "scummy but not very scummy" to avoid being voted for a nightkill.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


EccoRaven posted:

I disagree.
Some of my posts that indicate how I felt at the time:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?goto=post&postid=437687209

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?goto=post&postid=437688460

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?goto=post&postid=437770843


If merk is sensing a "lack of confidence" he's probably noticing that I said in multiple places that I recognized that the case didn't have a lot of other points in its favor. But being honest about a case's merits isn't scummy.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


To be fair, merk:

merk posted:

If I was scum, since I don't know my scum buddies, I'd be playing this game like a Survivor. I wouldn't give a poo poo who got lynched as long as it wasn't me, and I'd look drat persuasive not giving any of that poo poo when I made cases. I wasn't using the SK thing to throw in your face as a LAMIST (hate that acronym) but more of a 'how can you say I'm not trying when my efforts got us the SK?'
This is uh kinda how you're playing this game.

You haven't acted complacent, true, but you've really not put much effort into actually trying to persuade people to vote for your choices. You made a hail mary late late late into Day 1 on Hurt, and now you've made some posts about me, bu it feels like you actually don't care who we vote for.

Then again I'm not unconvinced you're just jumping around to make yourself a less attractive nightkilling target, either. You know, like how you said you were gonna play.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

I don't care what I look like. I'm telling you how an ideal scum player would be playing this game. IF you think I'm doing that, then vote me.

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



EccoRaven posted:

- Monithan is a weird one because I sense there's more going on than he's willing to talk about, but he's not willing to share it, and I wish he would, because it's letting people make easy cases against him (Peta comes to mind).

- The cases against Monithan feel opportunistic, too. It screams "vote and forget," a strategy scum can easily do this game where posting is low.

Haha you'd think people who multiple page-long Mafia posts per day would know by now that "easy"/"opportunistic" has long been discredited as an excuse to sideline cases but I guess you're EccoRaven so you skew the data pretty heavily because you are a loving stupid person lol

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



Also I have a day job so no, I won't post walls of text like you 24 hours a day. I wish you had a day job too because it would probably improve the quality of your play. The quality of your play would be better because you would less frequently poo poo up the game.

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



Hey Monathin did you come by EBWOP in a wiki article

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



##unvote

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


merk posted:

I don't care what I look like.
That's kind of the point.

merk posted:

IF you think I'm doing that, then vote me.

Nah I prefer my vote on JJ. And, I have faith you'll actually pull it together if you're town.

Plus I really doubt a merk case would have any traction.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Peta I know you don't like me on a personal level but can you please try to avoid stuff like that for now? You've made a weak case on Monathin and that's about it, I never said anything about you personally.

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



Mafia Player A: Well, Mafia Player B seems pretty transparently scummy and I think we should vote him.

Mafia Player C, viz., EccoRaven: What a freaking easy and opportunistic case lol. drat. What an outrage to say that thing. Lol, fuuuuckkk. Gah. I say, the case on Mafia Player B is opportunistic. drat. Hot drat

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



EccoRaven posted:

Peta I know you don't like me on a personal level but can you please try to avoid stuff like that for now? You've made a weak case on Monathin and that's about it, I never said anything about you personally.

gently caress you idiot I haven't even made a case against him

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Cool great ok sorry for bothering you.

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



Well now I don't even have an easy and opportunistic case to my name so you should probably ask a mod to prod me for my scandalous behavior

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



Or just request a replacement and/or post your role PM so that you don't have to tire yourself out with avalanches of holier-than-thou drivel and everyone else doesn't have to pretend to read your terrible posts. Think about it, you could basically make a Jesus-on-the-cross-level sacrifice right now

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



I'm going to bed now but on my way out I implore you to not be a gently caress

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Now you and I both know that's impossible.

bowmore
Oct 6, 2008





Lipstick Apathy

I can't read eccos posts every time i do my vision goes blurry

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Cool story.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




That's why I don't read posts. Ya'll got to learn to play by gut

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


Peta posted:

Hey Monathin did you come by EBWOP in a wiki article

Yeah, since the rules stated in the OP were "standard Mafia rules apply with a list of exceptions" and I am -notoriously- edit-heavy in my posts on other parts of the forums since I tend to make a bunch of mistakes (see: The post I did for EBWOP, which had like half a sentence of two separate sentences missing).

I am trying to keep up with this thread, I've just been busy this last week, but I guess I can put forth some stuff I've been dwelling on.


- I assume Hiipfire has been busy, but they said they wanted to put together some cases on the volcano group, which was full of the more active types. There's no real saying if there was someone in there who is still alive who is scum, since Ernie was in that group and -could- have voted Sabotage, but there may yet be someone from that group who, currently, looks scummier than Ernie did D1. I don't think hunting exclusively in the volcano group is necessarily the right call, but I think there's something there. I'd do it myself if I could make better cases.

- I generally agree with what merk is saying regarding how scum would be playing, ideally. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that all mafia are going to play this way, but ideally they're all trying to figure out who is mafia without throwing themselves under the bus to defend someone wh comes off as obviously scummy or whatever.

Somberbrero posted:

Do you consider your previous feelings on Ecco invalid, since he was casing a not-town but not-mafia player? If so, why? Do you have any thoughts on my posts about Ecco? Who are you going to vote today?

I think Ecco is earnest about hunting anyone who isn't town, and while that's mostly a gut feeling, I'm not sure I could make a compelling argument of what he's doing that's outright scummy, except for maybe "if he's leading discussion so much, why didn't the mafia gun for him day one?" In my experiences offline, usually the discussion leader early on is one of the first to bite it, unless someone is actively protecting them. Doubly so since an Ecco death could have shifted blame to Ernie in the event they were still alive.

However, weren't there three deaths last night? Then again, there is an unknown number of vigs, so there could have been more and maybe the scum -did- go after Ecco. There's not enough data to prove that either way, and I'd say the absence of targeting Ecco would prove as suspicion in a sort of "absence of attention" way.

Somberbrero posted:

Who do you think is scum, Mona?

Asiina or possibly SoS. Both seem to be kind of just dropping in to throw a sort of bandwagon vote and then immediately vanishing off again, which sort of makes me suspicious. Admittedly, I'm more inclined to vote Asiina because they're trying to make a case for Ecco when I don't see it and haven't put forth the effort you been having, which strikes me as insincere.

Peta also makes me a bit suspicious since they have a whole lot of posts that essentially amount to trying to shut down excessive discussion, which strikes me as a bit odd. Admittedly, there could be bias there since they did try to vote me and instigate others to do the same. Not really enough to make a case out of though, in my opinion.

I -do- think Ecco isn't scum, I think he's abrasive and thus an easy target to be piled onto, and if I were scum I'd be waiting on the sidelines letting to see if he's going to hang himself with the rope he's been given, so to speak.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


By "absence of attention" I mean more that the longer the game goes on the more likely it might seem that Ecco is scum due to spearheading suggestions for so long and not attracting scum attention.

Also is Hiipfire doesnt come forth with volcano cases or doesnt say they arent working on them due to having new evidence to follow I'd just as likely consider them to be scum as well, honestly.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


Anyway I have to be up in like six hours to go to work so I'll catch you guys later.

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



OK, I thought I could catch you inin lie regarding your EBWOP post once you said you'd never played forum Mafia before. I didn't know until a little while later that it had its own article on the SA wiki. Oh well.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

Asiina posted:

Also I don't believe that a scum vig would ever blow his shot on D1.

I've seen a scum vig shoot someone D1 fwiw. You're assuming the scum vig is only 1-shot everyone who's flipped so far has been 2-shot, maybe that's not true for the scum but it's worth thinking about.

Ixtlilton posted:

Asiina is the cum (wo)man, I have foreseen. f_v is doing her town thing and so is Ecco. I can't read Somber very well since he just posts up a storm as any alignment but this seems more sincere than his scum posting. merk was right for the right reasons and scum merk would probably be less right for less right reasons maybe, merk's not a busser as far I can remember and casing properly is almost like bussing.

Your read on merk seems to be ignoring the fact this is a blind game to bus he'd have to have divined who his buddies were first. I will however forgive you this inconsistency if you send me the leftover gateau.

EXAKT Science posted:

Hurt's flip is really interesting to me. He came up as Military-Aligned, and while that may just be a third party group of which he was the only member, it could also mean that we're dealing with multiple scumteams.

No he wasn't, he was a self-aligned US-military Serial Killer, an independent 3P role like how ernie the survivor, another independent 3P role, was liberty-aligned. Multiple scum teams doesn't make sense when they can't communicate with each other anyway, although I guess you could think of each scum is a team unto themselves.

merk posted:

If I was scum, since I don't know my scum buddies, I'd be playing this game like a Survivor. I wouldn't give a poo poo who got lynched as long as it wasn't me, and I'd look drat persuasive not giving any of that poo poo when I made cases.

merk posted:

We're scum hunting in the wrong way. We need to be looking for people who are trying to find their scum buddies while themselves faking content.

These posts don't sit well with me; Advocating a scum hunting strategy to catch players doing the complete opposite to his envisioned ideal scum behaviour.

bowmore posted:

I can't read eccos posts every time i do my vision goes blurry

I know his meta is low-effort but this is taking the piss.

Monathin posted:

Also is Hiipfire doesnt come forth with volcano cases or doesnt say they arent working on them due to having new evidence to follow I'd just as likely consider them to be scum as well, honestly.

He needs to have some stellar cases to shift my opinion of him.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Hey guys the deadline is tomorrow night, which means it'll be a weekend, which means it's going to be even worse than the Day 1 Sunday Night deadline.

I'm going to ask that everyone, if you haven't voted yet, make a vote in your next post. We're going to need numbers for the last minute scramble.

Currently I'm in the lead with 4 votes, followed by a whole bunch of 1-voters (me included since merk unvoted). I don't mind you voting for me if that's what it takes, just please put some votes down. We already failed to drum up enough voters Day 1, it's going to be even harder Day 2.

In my next post I'm going to talk about my top candidates.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


- I still really like JJ. 1) He's pretty much a non-entity, posting a few times then disappearing for days on end. 2) His reaction to the challenger results was scummy in that it probably indicated he didn't actually have a genuine suspicion on Opop (which he later confessed was true IIRC). 3) His defense of me feels less like genuine support and more like buddying up.

- I would also be fine voting for Hiipfire. He's also a non-entity, and even worse he promised content and failed to deliver. Sure, maybe RL stuff came up instead, but we have to hold people accountable for these things since it's also an easy thing for scum to lie about.

- As a long-shot I would be like to vote for Asiina. To repeat from earlier, I don't like how she voted me and ran away, I don't like how she gave really unclear reasons why when she finally answered fiery's questions, and I don't like how she supported Ernie's (confirmed not-town) plan Day 1.


I would be comfortable voting for lots of people, but those three really stick out to me.

Monathin
Sep 1, 2011


I'm not entirely sold on JJ's case, I'm not entirely sure why. But, hey, until he comes forward...

##vote Hiipfire

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Hey guys! I forgot to tell you what the lynch method is today!

its ~Plurality~

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Cool thanks Pig. Actually plurality would make perfect sense for this setup, since plurality's main flaw is it allows scum to coordinate and dominate too easily.

##vote Hiipfire going with this would happily switch back to JJ

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

EccoRaven posted:

- I would also be fine voting for Hiipfire. He's also a non-entity, and even worse he promised content and failed to deliver. Sure, maybe RL stuff came up instead, but we have to hold people accountable for these things since it's also an easy thing for scum to lie about.

So your case is that he's not posting and you want to hold him accountable, as opposed to being scummy? How does that differ to other players who aren't posting?

Why in your opinion is that a stronger case than the one against JJ?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Ignore my last question, I thought JJ had more votes on him, I can see why you moved you vote.

But, let me put this in Ecco language. Both town and scum can not post when they say they will. Why in this instance is it scummy?

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



Puntification posted:

Your read on merk seems to be ignoring the fact this is a blind game to bus he'd have to have divined who his buddies were first. I will however forgive you this inconsistency if you send me the leftover gateau.

My read specifically states how it's not ignoring that fact. Also, I finished the gateau and it was delicious, but maybe next month I'll go back there and get another slice and send it to you in the mail like a weirdo or something.

Also, I just realized that someone mentioned that Ernie being 3p means there might not be a scum in there, but knowing Ernie's meta he wouldn't betray N1 as a survivor.

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



Also, Ecco's not going to flip scum, you guys are silly.

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



merk at least starts with a decent point, even if I don't think it holds up with what happened with Ecco's case on Ernie and what it was based on though.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 2

EccoRaven (4): merk, merk, Somberbrero, Asiina, fiery_valkyrie, merk
HiipFire (3): Dugong, Monathin, EccoRaven
bowmore (1): Puntification
Monathin (1): The Science of Suck, Peta, Peta
Mad Rancher (0): merk, EccoRaven, merk, EccoRaven
Meinberg (0): fiery_valkyrie, fiery_valkyrie

Not Voting (10): AtrociousToaster, bowmore, EXAKT Science, HiipFire, Ixtlilton, Mad Rancher, Meinberg, Opopanax, Peta, Tremendous Taste

With 19 alive, it's 10 votes to lynch. The current deadline is November 21st, 2014 at 10 p.m. EST -- that's in about 1 day, 6 hours.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Ixtlilton posted:

merk at least starts with a decent point, even if I don't think it holds up with what happened with Ecco's case on Ernie and what it was based on though.

What does this mean? What happened?

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



merk posted:

What does this mean? What happened?

How it happened throughout D1.

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merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

how

what

happened

Can you show some work here? My case on Ecco came in day 2. How does it start from a good point if it's wrong based on what happened on day 1?

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