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Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



Like seriously, this is why I quit mafia. I'm terrible at scum unless I put in a huge amount of effort even for a lurky game so people like JakeP can read me super easily and it takes for frikkin' ever to convince other people and it's terrible for my mood and I do like the community and theory behind it and watching games is kinda fun but it really just isn't worth the stress to play these games for the occasional gratification and chilling with dudes. Which is mainly why I joined this game and then the dudes either aren't chilling or dead.

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Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




So is that a scum claim then?

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



I'm town, Opop. But you should probably lynch me anyway.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




I don't want to lynch town though

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



Opop, I'm going to pretend I'm nuzzling your avatar in a very affectionate manner.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Please stop.

Ixtlilton
Mar 10, 2012

How to Draw
by Rube Goldberg



Okay, sorry.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

Hey just vote Ecco.

Retro Futurist
Aug 8, 2007

Yesterday's Tomorrow,
Today!




Opopanax posted:

I don't want to lynch town though

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


merk posted:

Hey just vote Ecco.

Nah that's a bad vote, y'all should vote for Hiip or JJ or Asiina though.

Somberbrero posted:

Ecco admitting he wasn't playing in good faith
You keep saying this, I don't know what you mean by it?

fiery_valkyrie posted:

He even says in his post that he's doing it to hold Hiip accountable. His own case makes it clear that he doesn't even think Hiip is scum.
I think he's probably scum, though. It's one thing to disappear - it's another thing entirely to disappear despite saying "hey guys gonna post content soon I promise!!", and then not do so.

It also doesn't help that he actually did show up on this page to say "lol nope not participating still."

It reads less like disinterested townie and more like scum trying to stay under the radar while still popping in to avoid being part of the mass of unposting.

I prefer JJ though.

Ixtlilton posted:

Also, Somber's terrible at reading me, this is a historical fact.
In literally every game I have ever played with fiery she was non-mafia and I was town and she wound up thinking really really hard that I was scum.

We all have our blind spots, I have mine too, just none of them are playing this game.



I'm not actually feeling scum on Ixt guys. His self-vote at the end of Day 1 just feels like too big of a risk. Sure, in a normal game a self-vote could be reasonable since he could ensure his scumbuddies wouldn't join in, but in this one that's not the case at all. His posting is reading to me right now as pretty natural and off-the-cuff, like he's being genuine.

I dunno I'm just really not feeling it. People should perhaps instead vote for JJ, Hiip, or Asiina?

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Merk I am really wondering what's up with you. Normally arguments about "scum mind" vs. "town mind" really sink in with you (I feel like you coined the terms), yet when I made that exact argument about Ernie Day 1 (and, reminder, was correct), you've dismissed it as "a lovely case" that makes me scum for suggesting it.

You really aren't coming off like the merk I think I know. I know you have a second game you're playing in that you have (probably rightly) prioritized as more important, and I know this game's mechanics actually discourage intense townie behavior, but it's really not like you. It bothers me on a personal level because I had hoped we'd be a team this game for old time's sake, but it's also making me question your alignment, and that's just not a road either of us want to actually go down (if only because I'm pretty insufferable when I'm really sure I've caught a scum).

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Comments on all the current votes:

- I won't vote for myself. We're in plurality, I do a plenty good enough job on my own getting people to vote me without me having to participate.

- I like Hiipfire case. Unlike how fiery has presented it, it is not strictly a "policy" case - I threw in that line to help persuade people on the fence, but his posting is legit not helpful to the town while still (very deliberately) appearing helpful.

- I don't like the Ixt vote. It's plurality so there's not much pressure but I really don't sense malicious or selfish intent with his posting.

- Is there a case on bowmore that isn't just "he's worthless"? Because Hiipfire is worthless+, that's the better case imho.

- My feelings on Monathin haven't changed since last time I posted about them, except for "I like that he posted more than never."

Ok going to bed; I have a busy day tomorrow. Will not be around for the deadline but should be free in the afternoon.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

EccoRaven posted:

I think he's probably scum, though. It's one thing to disappear - it's another thing entirely to disappear despite saying "hey guys gonna post content soon I promise!!", and then not do so.

It also doesn't help that he actually did show up on this page to say "lol nope not participating still."

It reads less like disinterested townie and more like scum trying to stay under the radar while still popping in to avoid being part of the mass of unposting.

That is the same case as my argument on Meinberg, so why is Hiipfire scummy and not Meinberg?

See below for Meinbergs posts where he pretends he has something to say and will contribute to the game but then never actually does.

Meinberg posted:

A Sunday deadline? Why I never!

Things have been pretty quiet, so I don't have any new thoughts, but I'll think real hard, and try to come up with something.

Meinberg posted:

Hey guys, how's it going? I miss anything important the last couple days?

Meinberg posted:

But I said "hey guys, I'm town" at the beginning of the game. That's my meta cue for being town.

More seriously, my internet has been down the last couple days, I'll try to be more active going forward. But for the moment, it's kinda hard for me to process all the huge posts that seems to be largely theory that are going on in here. (I blame Ecco)

Does this change your opinion on Meinberg Ecco?

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Also, all you fuckers not posting should feel bad.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

EccoRaven posted:

- Is there a case on bowmore that isn't just "he's worthless"? Because Hiipfire is worthless+, that's the better case imho.
This was my case on him:

Puntification posted:

bowmore posted:

I agree with this

##vote Ernie

bowmore posted:

I could go Ixt
I feel bowmore is trying pretty hard to fly just under the radar, expressing a desire not to die when vig targets were discussed without really contributing to the discussion and agreeing with other peoples' cases on the vote-leaders are basically all that he's done so far.

At this point Hiip has made about 3/4 promises to give reads/cases, while having the time to discuss maths and complain about people talking about met so it is looking increasingly insincere but I'm planning to give him a last chance to post his volcano-volunteer cases before I switch.

Jato
Dec 21, 2009

hootin' and hollerin'


fiery_valkyrie posted:

Also, all you fuckers not posting should feel bad.

I do. :smith: I have just been ridiculously busy lately and don't see that clearing up until the end of this semester. I'm gonna go ahead and ask Cpig if he'd mind finding a replacement for me. Good luck, everyone!

Peta
Dec 26, 2011



Ixtlilton posted:

Like seriously, this is why I quit mafia. I'm terrible at scum unless I put in a huge amount of effort even for a lurky game so people like JakeP can read me super easily and it takes for frikkin' ever to convince other people and it's terrible for my mood and I do like the community and theory behind it and watching games is kinda fun but it really just isn't worth the stress to play these games for the occasional gratification and chilling with dudes. Which is mainly why I joined this game and then the dudes either aren't chilling or dead.

What the gently caress lol

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

AtrociousToaster posted:

I do. :smith: I have just been ridiculously busy lately and don't see that clearing up until the end of this semester. I'm gonna go ahead and ask Cpig if he'd mind finding a replacement for me. Good luck, everyone!

Life has a horrible tendency to get in the way of important things like online games, best of luck with your work!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


fiery_valkyrie posted:

Does this change your opinion on Meinberg Ecco?

I don't know why you live in a universe where you think I think Meinberg is town. I agreed that your second point was scummy (i.e., good), just that it didn't significantly distinguish him from other posters (like Hiipfire). You were the one who got hung up on the vig-point.

I guess the difference between Hiip and Meinberg is, Meinberg has a reputation for being worthless, whereas Hiip is (as far as I know, I quit playing games back in September) fresh off the boat.

Your gut says it's Meinberg, mine says it's Hiip. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're wrong, maybe we're both wrong (or maybe we're both right!). It doesn't make you or me scum though.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

HiipFire posted:

yeah i havent been paying attention to the thread sorry
im not gonna bother making a long post explaining why to look like im trying

ill post cases for the volcano group sometime around 3PM my time(gmt +1)

This passed ages ago, where you at Hiip?

Also, I have got to get up early to catch a coach tomorrow morning so I'll not be around for the deadline, I'll stay up maybe another 5, maybe 6 hours max.

merk
May 20, 2003

##interact

How has a lynch not happened in this game yet? It's been like twelve real life days.

votefinder
Jul 6, 2010

scoop scoop


Votecount for Day 2

HiipFire (2): Dugong, Monathin, EccoRaven, Dugong
EccoRaven (2): merk, merk, Somberbrero, Asiina, fiery_valkyrie, merk, Somberbrero, Asiina
bowmore (2): Puntification, Peta
Ixtlilton (2): Somberbrero, Asiina
Monathin (1): The Science of Suck, Peta, Peta
Mad Rancher (0): merk, EccoRaven, merk, EccoRaven
Meinberg (0): fiery_valkyrie, fiery_valkyrie

Not Voting (10): AtrociousToaster, bowmore, Dugong, EXAKT Science, HiipFire, Ixtlilton, Mad Rancher, Meinberg, Opopanax, Tremendous Taste

With 19 alive, it's 10 votes to lynch. The current deadline is November 21st, 2014 at 10 p.m. EST -- that's in about 9 hours, 36 minutes.

The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


Monathin posted:

Asiina or possibly SoS. Both seem to be kind of just dropping in to throw a sort of bandwagon vote and then immediately vanishing off again, which sort of makes me suspicious. Admittedly, I'm more inclined to vote Asiina because they're trying to make a case for Ecco when I don't see it and haven't put forth the effort you been having, which strikes me as insincere.

show me how i'm bandwaggoning. i was on you d1 until i got distracted by ernie, and you decided to ignore me until peta also started getting on you on d2

The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


fiery_valkyrie posted:

So your case is that he's not posting and you want to hold him accountable, as opposed to being scummy? How does that differ to other players who aren't posting?

Why in your opinion is that a stronger case than the one against JJ?

it also occurs to me that ecco was against a lurker vig but is now pro lurker lynch

The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


i'm here, to post

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010


Ecco


tell me who is scum ecco



i trust you

The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


what is plurality?

HiipFire
Sep 1, 2013

JENNY DEATH LIVES


Puntification posted:

This passed ages ago, where you at Hiip?

Also, I have got to get up early to catch a coach tomorrow morning so I'll not be around for the deadline, I'll stay up maybe another 5, maybe 6 hours max.

gently caress RIGHT OKAY I FORGOT

Ernie:

well he isn't the one who failed, because there's no reason for him to risk getting lynched so it's not him.

JJ:

There isn't alot of content here and I have the bad tendency to see lurking as a scumtell, so outside of him backpeddling the "let's lynch a volcano-goer" and for some reason not watching to do it because of Ernie being in the volcano group, which I don't know why that would matter, I'm not gonna say anything about him.

I'm just gonna post these 2 cases so you guys know I'm here, I'll go write more cases(ones with more words) when I get back from dinner(in like 30 minutes)
ALSO YEAH I KNOW THESE CASES SUCK, I literally picked the ones with the least content first because im lazy

HiipFire fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Nov 21, 2014

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

merk posted:

How has a lynch not happened in this game yet? It's been like twelve real life days.

At least we can't no-lynch today.


The Science of Suck posted:

it also occurs to me that ecco was against a lurker vig but is now pro lurker lynch

Are you suggesting that wanting to kill lurkers twelve days into a game is no different from wanting to kill them on the first?


The Science of Suck posted:

what is plurality?

highest vote count gets lynched.

The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


Puntification posted:

Are you suggesting that wanting to kill lurkers twelve days into a game is no different from wanting to kill them on first?

it would have been more interesting, i think, to have ecco explain what, if any, difference he saw than having you pick up on it for him as i am undecided about ecco, who is a vote leader

imo there is little difference as i think of the game in terms of game time, ie d1 & d2. it didn't even occur to me to frame in real days, and i can see how doing that makes the point weaker

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Puntification posted:

Are you suggesting that wanting to kill lurkers twelve days into a game is no different from wanting to kill them on the first?

It's not a drastically different game state at this point.

Ixtlilton posted:

Like seriously, this is why I quit mafia. I'm terrible at scum unless I put in a huge amount of effort even for a lurky game so people like JakeP can read me super easily and it takes for frikkin' ever to convince other people and it's terrible for my mood and I do like the community and theory behind it and watching games is kinda fun but it really just isn't worth the stress to play these games for the occasional gratification and chilling with dudes. Which is mainly why I joined this game and then the dudes either aren't chilling or dead.

I just don't see this as town behavior. Why get all werked up at two votes? He was voting himself yesterday and today he's gettin' mad about mafia. Reads fake to me.

Dugong
Mar 18, 2013

I don't know what to do,
I'm going to lose my mind



HiipFire posted:

gently caress RIGHT OKAY I FORGOT

Ernie:

well he isn't the one who failed, because there's no reason for him to risk getting lynched so it's not him.

JJ:

There isn't alot of content here and I have the bad tendency to see lurking as a scumtell, so outside of him backpeddling the "let's lynch a volcano-goer" and for some reason not watching to do it because of Ernie being in the volcano group, which I don't know why that would matter, I'm not gonna say anything about him.

I'm just gonna post these 2 cases so you guys know I'm here, I'll go write more cases(ones with more words) when I get back from dinner(in like 30 minutes)
ALSO YEAH I KNOW THESE CASES SUCK, I literally picked the ones with the least content first because im lazy

So your idea was to case the volcano group which caused some friction ace then just pick 2 of them. You could have just not said the volcano stuff and cased those 2.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

The Science of Suck posted:

it would have been more interesting, i think, to have ecco explain what, if any, difference he saw than having you pick up on it for him as i am undecided about ecco, who is a vote leader

imo there is little difference as i think of the game in terms of game time, ie d1 & d2. it didn't even occur to me to frame in real days, and i can see how doing that makes the point weaker

Oh sorry, I only try to hold off commenting on direct questions and think comments are fair game.

Puntification
Nov 4, 2009

Black Orthodontromancy
The most British Magic



Fun Shoe

Somberbrero posted:

It's not a drastically different game state at this point.

I'd argue there's been sufficient time and enough activity for people to contribute some thoughts to make killing someone now and kiling someone 6 hours into the game a significantly different proposition.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Puntification posted:

I'd argue there's been sufficient time and enough activity for people to contribute some thoughts to make killing someone now and kiling someone 6 hours into the game a significantly different proposition.

I guess, I don't especially see it that way but it doesn't seem worth arguing over.

Tremendous Taste posted:

Ecco


tell me who is scum ecco



i trust you

Why do you trust Ecco?

Ecco I haven't done a good job of responding to you but in regards to that good faith biz I pulled a couple quotes below. 'Good faith' might be the wrong term here, but I dunno if that's a productive argument for me to make anyway.

EccoRaven posted:

You keep saying this, I don't know what you mean by it?

EccoRaven posted:

I really don't like mafia tbh. I regret signing up for this game and I wish I hadn't, and I have a feeling lots of players would agree!

EccoRaven posted:

Not really. A lot of this game isn't really about making reasoned arguments and taking things sensibly. There is a baseline I want (slash a town needs in order to function), but everything beyond that is a complicated mixture of reason, emotions, intuition, and (always) laziness. As scum I love getting into back-and-forth fights with a townie who thinks I'm scum, because I know that no matter what we say, disinterested townies will say "eh looks like two townies slapfighting!" and ignore me, giving me the carte blanche to kill that townie at night.

I know how the game is played. Which is why I hate playing it.

Also, this game owns. I know ya'll are frustrated because poo poo is slow right now but in a couple weeks you're going to be losing your mind trying to figure out this monster-mystery. Flavor is good, mechanics are interesting, stick with it and stop being so down. I'm going out of town for a funeral tonight and won't be back for a couple days. I'm probably going to miss the deadline.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010


ecco is pure and good and i skipped reading most of the game tbh

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


It's not even a full twenty pages.

t a s t e
Sep 6, 2010


I didn't say it was a long game!

The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


Puntification posted:

Oh sorry, I only try to hold off commenting on direct questions and think comments are fair game.

nothing to be sorry for, i'm just razzing ya

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The Science of Suck
Mar 17, 2009


this game is cool, i have to think about it differently and that's fun

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