Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Neif
Jul 26, 2012

RightClickSaveAs posted:

Yeah, that's the Telltale experience in a nutshell. I love their games, but I'd be even more in love if they'd manage to work in good puzzles on top of that. I don't know why they still go through the charade of having an inventory, it's like they're teasing me at this point :(

It's my first telltale experience too couldn't help but liken it too a digital age version of "Choose your adventure" books that I'd read as a kid.



Pretty much my feeling playing as the young Forrestor squire dude for the first hour or so of the game.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

2 fast 2 Hanwei Practical XL Katana Unveiling
Just started this. I forgot, what was house Forresters role in the red wedding? I thought it was just Starks/Frey.

Medium Cool
Dec 27, 2006

Yr sister is a beauty when she's naked
Grimey Drawer
They're just a house loyal to the Starks fighting in their army. They aren't mentioned in the show, and only in passing in the books. this is the first time their story has been fleshed out.

veni veni veni
Jun 5, 2005

2 fast 2 Hanwei Practical XL Katana Unveiling
Cool thanks.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

NESguerilla posted:

I thought it was just Starks/Frey.

:eng101: Minor correction: It was the Starks and Tullys and all the minor houses serving them (including Forrester) versus Frey and Bolton

Aishan
Oct 29, 2011
The Red Wedding was about more than just the Starks; pretty much all the Northern houses sent the majority of their armies south with Robb and were present around The Twins when Frey and Bolton made their play. If they didn't ally with Bolton, then they were most likely wiped out and all they'd have left are the old, infirm and young back home. Houses like Forrester would effectively be crippled militarily after the wedding massacres.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

Draxamus posted:

What I'd like to see is more actual branching paths in these games. I want wildly different experiences depending on your choices.

I think that's what Telltale is going for in the long term with this series. You make a lot of decisions in this episode that you didn't see the consequences for just yet, so we might seem them later on in future episodes.

Shard
Jul 30, 2005

Big YeeHaw
Would a guy like Ramsay Snow be able to get away with knifing a lord in his house, especially a child? Would there be no consequences? I know this is a lovely setting run by lovely people, but that seems like a lot for people to get over.

Neif
Jul 26, 2012

Roman Reigns posted:

:eng101: Minor correction: It was the Starks and Tullys and all the minor houses serving them (including Forrester) versus Frey and Bolton


To get a very good idea of how many houses/lords etc there are and their location in Westeros, Crusader Kings 2 has an excellent mod (think it's close to canon )http://www.moddb.com/mods/crusader-kings-2-a-game-of-thrones-ck2agot that is fantastic at basically being a GoT2 murder simulator.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

Spikeguy posted:

Would a guy like Ramsay Snow be able to get away with knifing a lord in his house, especially a child? Would there be no consequences? I know this is a lovely setting run by lovely people, but that seems like a lot for people to get over.

Yes. He and his daddy are pretty much the law now in the North. Even if the remaining Stark loyalists throw a fit, its going to mean gently caress all because the Boltons are in charge. As for him being a child...remember season 2 starts with a bunch of kids, even babies getting massacred and nothing is done about it because it was ordered by the king.

Roman Reigns fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Dec 5, 2014

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009


Spikeguy posted:

Would a guy like Ramsay Snow be able to get away with knifing a lord in his house, especially a child? Would there be no consequences? I know this is a lovely setting run by lovely people, but that seems like a lot for people to get over.

Yes. They have no allies left and the crown doesn't give a gently caress as long as they get their ironwood. The North is now run by Ramsay's daddy and is basically lawless at this point. If you've seen the last season of the show recall that everything outside of King's Landing or the other keeps is basically on fire and everyone with even the smallest amount of power is plundering and pillaging everything they can. The Boltons burned down Winterfell, why would anyone care about an even lesser lord getting iced? The fact that the Red Wedding happened without any retaliation from anyone should be proof enough that there's no help to be found.

Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Dec 5, 2014

Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"

Neif posted:

It's my first telltale experience too couldn't help but liken it too a digital age version of "Choose your adventure" books that I'd read as a kid.



Pretty much my feeling playing as the young Forrestor squire dude for the first hour or so of the game.

I love those books so much...

That said I think telltale needs to make these games take distinct paths with distinct endings.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



Agreed. Normally the excuse for not having branching content is the expense for something that a significant number of players won't see. But that's for games with some other form of gameplay. In Telltale games where the story is the gameplay, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to do it. Otherwise I feel like I'm getting most of the experience just watching someone else play these games

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

Agreed. Normally the excuse for not having branching content is the expense for something that a significant number of players won't see. But that's for games with some other form of gameplay. In Telltale games where the story is the gameplay, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to do it. Otherwise I feel like I'm getting most of the experience just watching someone else play these games

Here's the thing, Telltale have never actually done branching gameplay in any significant manner and anyone that came here expecting anything different this time around was naive as hell. They've always been lazy about it and as the original Walking Dead proved their games are good without it.

SatansBestBuddy
Sep 26, 2010

by FactsAreUseless

Xoidanor posted:

Here's the thing, Telltale have never actually done branching gameplay in any significant manner and anyone that came here expecting anything different this time around was naive as hell. They've always been lazy about it and as the original Walking Dead proved their games are good without it.

I wouldn't call it laziness so much as "expensive". They don't exactly have Heavy Rain sized budgets for these games, and most of them are made in less than two years. It takes a lot of planning to get the branches we do have working together across multiple episodes, hell I'm pretty sure half the reason they do episodic content is so they can cut routes that only a very small fraction of the playerbase would ever see so they can complete the other ones on time.

Funso Banjo
Dec 22, 2003

Roman Reigns posted:

I think that's what Telltale is going for in the long term with this series. You make a lot of decisions in this episode that you didn't see the consequences for just yet, so we might seem them later on in future episodes.

I think this may be wishful thinking. Because they've had the chance to do that before in other games, and haven't. Is this where they are going to change? No evidence that they can change, as far as I can see.

Not to say I don't like them. I think telltale make interesting stories that you participate in a little.

Shard
Jul 30, 2005

Big YeeHaw
It seems like this discussion comes up for every Telltale game. But have they ever stated that your decisions would have long term consequences, or the games would have a lot of branching paths?

Also, are there any games with a lot of branching paths with the story ending up very different depending on what you do? The only ones I can think of are The Witcher 2 and the Way of the Samurai games.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

Funso Banjo posted:

I think this may be wishful thinking. Because they've had the chance to do that before in other games, and haven't. Is this where they are going to change? No evidence that they can change, as far as I can see.

I won't deny that it is. Decisions that players have made in other games were just dropped as episodes went on.

Spikeguy posted:

But have they ever stated that your decisions would have long term consequences, or the games would have a lot of branching paths?

Eh...they usually they have that blurb in the beginning of their games implying that they do but up to now everyone knows that's not really true.

Honestly, any hope I have of seeing GoT being different from past Telltale games is based on what I've read about it. But even if it isn't I'm perfectly fine with that. As long as they tell a great story with great characters I'm A-ok.

Hakkesshu
Nov 3, 2009


Spikeguy posted:

It seems like this discussion comes up for every Telltale game. But have they ever stated that your decisions would have long term consequences, or the games would have a lot of branching paths?

Also, are there any games with a lot of branching paths with the story ending up very different depending on what you do? The only ones I can think of are The Witcher 2 and the Way of the Samurai games.

No, not really. People put way too much stock in that, and granted, the little dumb disclaimer that pops up in every episode doesn't help, but it's a bit much to expect drastic narrative changes in what are essentially small independent episodic games. You don't necessarily change the story, but your choices do matter because they reflect how you view the characters and how they view you - I would like to see them take it a step further, but I think the context is important enough to make it a worthwhile addition.

To me the only game that really did branching paths in a super interesting and complex manner is probably Alpha Protocol. Even The Witcher 2 is very binary when it comes to the overall progression, and while I love Way of the Samurai, that's more of an experiment in non-linearity and only deals with actual narrative in very basic terms.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



Xoidanor posted:

Here's the thing, Telltale have never actually done branching gameplay in any significant manner and anyone that came here expecting anything different this time around was naive as hell. They've always been lazy about it and as the original Walking Dead proved their games are good without it.

I know they haven't done it. And I know it costs money to create content. I literally mentioned those exact two things in my post. I'm saying that Telltale doesn't even do puzzles anymore, and when the entire core of gameplay is now about the story and making decisions regarding the story, maybe it would be nice to innovate on the only gameplay element left.

Edit: having branching content changes the experience, even if the player doesn't experience the content themselves. One of my favorite games is Colony Wars, which might be considered just an OK space shooter, but it blew my mind when it came out because it had four different endings, including an entire set of alternate final missions depending on your choices. Some people might never play them but they know they're there and so there's actually a material consequence to their actions.

Like, in this GoT episode Ethan getting shanked is surely dramatic and shocking and affecting, but the fact that it happens no matter what you do also means it's sapped a little of its significance because it's not really affected by your actions.

And the "Guys, content is expensive!" argument works both ways. If I'm seeing almost everything in the game (barring shifts in characterization and other minor things) by watching someone else play it, then I have little reason to buy it myself when pushing the buttons myself adds very little.

CharlieFoxtrot fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Dec 6, 2014

MiddleOne
Feb 17, 2011

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

And the "Guys, content is expensive!" argument works both ways. If I'm seeing almost everything in the game (barring shifts in characterization and other minor things) by watching someone else play it, then I have little reason to buy it myself when pushing the buttons myself adds very little.

Then stop complaining and just don't buy their games in the future. The Telltale formula is at this point so set in stone that over 75% of the metahumour in the Borderlands game was in-jokes about how carbon-cut the gameplay of Telltale games are. That's why I used the word "lazy", they clearly could do something deeper and more interesting but they've chosen not to.

paint dry
Feb 8, 2005
I stopped watching the show a while ago but I really enjoyed the first chapter of this. Glad they got a good performance out of...... the guy who plays Tyrion (I forgot his name :() after he phoned it in in Destiny.

CharlieFoxtrot
Mar 26, 2007

organize digital employees



Xoidanor posted:

Then stop complaining and just don't buy their games in the future. The Telltale formula is at this point so set in stone that over 75% of the metahumour in the Borderlands game was in-jokes about how carbon-cut the gameplay of Telltale games are. That's why I used the word "lazy", they clearly could do something deeper and more interesting but they've chosen not to.

Nah, I think I'm going to keep posting my thoughts in a discussion thread.

I wonder how much Essos is going to be a part of things with Asher. It would be nice to see some new things like the other Free Cities, but I am assuming they have been avoiding showing anything not already seen in the show, which is why it's all North/King's Landing/Wall stuff.

Pththya-lyi
Nov 8, 2009

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2020

paint dry posted:

the guy who plays Tyrion (I forgot his name :()

You'll never forget it after you listen to this.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

CharlieFoxtrot posted:

I wonder how much Essos is going to be a part of things with Asher. It would be nice to see some new things like the other Free Cities, but I am assuming they have been avoiding showing anything not already seen in the show, which is why it's all North/King's Landing/Wall stuff.

Unless Asher just loves being in Essos, I don't see him staying there for too long when Malcolm asks him to come back. Although it would be nice to get a glimpse of the few places Dany devastated on her liberation campaign to see what the after effects up close are like.

paint dry
Feb 8, 2005

Thanks, this was very helpful.

NutritiousSnack
Jul 12, 2011

Hakkesshu posted:

Yes. They have no allies left and the crown doesn't give a gently caress as long as they get their ironwood. The North is now run by Ramsay's daddy and is basically lawless at this point. If you've seen the last season of the show recall that everything outside of King's Landing or the other keeps is basically on fire and everyone with even the smallest amount of power is plundering and pillaging everything they can. The Boltons burned down Winterfell, why would anyone care about an even lesser lord getting iced? The fact that the Red Wedding happened without any retaliation from anyone should be proof enough that there's no help to be found.

You're wrong here man.

The entire reason the Boltons were given the North was so Tyrion would have the support of the Northern lords when he got Sansa knocked up and claimed his and his son's birthright. They where selected specificlly because they where such assholes that eventually the North would rebel even after such a costly war. With Tyrion gone now, it's actually going to make the situation worse for the crown because none of the other Northern lords like the Boltons and they don't have a guy to replace him. There are still other contenders for the crown out there, and their position has been greatly strengthened by Tywin's death. Stannis, Greyjoys, and Danny all will run on the "Not a Bolton platform" and win handily.

BlueBayou
Jan 16, 2008
Before she mends must sicken worse

NutritiousSnack posted:

You're wrong here man.

The entire reason the Boltons were given the North was so Tyrion would have the support of the Northern lords when he got Sansa knocked up and claimed his and his son's birthright. They where selected specificlly because they where such assholes that eventually the North would rebel even after such a costly war. With Tyrion gone now, it's actually going to make the situation worse for the crown because none of the other Northern lords like the Boltons and they don't have a guy to replace him. There are still other contenders for the crown out there, and their position has been greatly strengthened by Tywin's death. Stannis, Greyjoys, and Danny all will run on the "Not a Bolton platform" and win handily.


Exactly

I can't imagine a situation in which the Forrester's don't declare for Stannis. Well.. aside from the Boltons and Whitehills completely wiping them out.

In fact, I can't think of a lot of houses that won't declare for Stannis. Well.. assuming he is able to retake Winterfell. Which....... we will see.


On another note... what do we think the North Grove is?

My initial instinct is "omg it must have something to do with the north and the white walkers and the wildlings and omg it's way more important than this southron BS

But then.. it's not like anybody aside from the reader understands the importance of what is going on north of the wall. So why would Lord Forrester be so insistent on it's survival.

So.... what could it be. Their words are Iron from Ice. So maybe it's the central source of ironwood or something.

jasoneatspizza
Jul 6, 2010

Spikeguy posted:

It seems like this discussion comes up for every Telltale game. But have they ever stated that your decisions would have long term consequences, or the games would have a lot of branching paths?

Also, are there any games with a lot of branching paths with the story ending up very different depending on what you do? The only ones I can think of are The Witcher 2 and the Way of the Samurai games.

FNV

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

BlueBayou posted:

On another note... what do we think the North Grove is?

My initial instinct is "omg it must have something to do with the north and the white walkers and the wildlings and omg it's way more important than this southron BS

But then.. it's not like anybody aside from the reader understands the importance of what is going on north of the wall. So why would Lord Forrester be so insistent on it's survival.

So.... what could it be. Their words are Iron from Ice. So maybe it's the central source of ironwood or something.


Pretty much what I'm thinking. Some sort of magical site that causes their wood to become "iron". The game does make a big deal of how unique it is. I also don't trust the Maester in relation to this. He seems pretty nosey about things, particularly about the North Grove.

Arbite
Nov 4, 2009





BlueBayou posted:


I can't imagine a situation in which the Forrester's don't declare for Stannis. Well.. aside from the Boltons and Whitehills completely wiping them out.

In fact, I can't think of a lot of houses that won't declare for Stannis. Well.. assuming he is able to retake Winterfell. Which....... we will see.



That's where I hope this is going. I understand Stephen Dillane isn't the easiest guy to get, but that'd be pretty great.

Rabid Snake
Aug 6, 2004



I cannot wait for them to flesh out Asher's roll in this game. He's by far the most interesting character in this game even though he hasn't played a role yet. His background is intriguing.

Shard
Jul 30, 2005

Big YeeHaw

Rabid Snake posted:

I cannot wait for them to flesh out Asher's roll in this game. He's by far the most interesting character in this game even though he hasn't played a role yet. His background is intriguing.

In my first playthrough I was all about bringing him back home, but then his mom made him sound like a murder machine who won't know when to think. So I changed my mind. In retrospect, I think I need a murder machine to deal with Snow and the Whitehills.

NutritiousSnack
Jul 12, 2011

BlueBayou posted:

Exactly

I can't imagine a situation in which the Forrester's don't declare for Stannis. Well.. aside from the Boltons and Whitehills completely wiping them out.

In fact, I can't think of a lot of houses that won't declare for Stannis. Well.. assuming he is able to retake Winterfell. Which....... we will see.

I forgot to mention this before it goes back to why Tyrion offered an alliance in the first place Tyrion is a cool and kind guy, but he still is thinking logically and politically with this move. Winning over important large noble families in the North as a reasonble man are the first steps he has to take for his eventual invasion. If things didn't turn out like they did in the show The Forresters would have gone from hating him to loving celebrating when a Lannister took over for saving their bacon. It's a smart rear end move


quote:

On another note... what do we think the North Grove is?

But then.. it's not like anybody aside from the reader understands the importance of what is going on north of the wall. So why would Lord Forrester be so insistent on it's survival.


Northern lords are some of the few that still sends second and bastard sons to the Wall. It's perfectly in character for them to care about what's going on with the Wall.

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

Wait the North Grove is above the Wall? I figured it was near the "ironwood"

BlueBayou
Jan 16, 2008
Before she mends must sicken worse
I would not be surprised at all if the north grove was above the wall. Dude does tell Gared to try to be a ranger

Roman Reigns
Aug 23, 2007

I thought it was implied that Duncan was planning to bring back Gared soon to help the family out and that getting experience as ranger would help. I think he even mentions he'll need Gared's help eventually.

But given how Northern lords actually give a poo poo about the Wall and the Night's Watch, I guess that makes more sense.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


I was definitely under the impression the North Grove is part of the Forrester's share of woodland, and has some kind of mystical significance. A lot of Northern families have assorted mystic rituals associated with the Old Gods and so on, it wouldn't be too strange if it turned out the Forrester lords had some kind of secret passed down from father to son about some pact concerning protecting the North Grove. Maybe they're not meant to harvest wood from there without angering something supernatural.

Regardless, sending Gared to join the Night's Watch is an obvious setup for his uncle to try and call him back when he needs help with something to protect the Grove and Gared has to pick between loyalty to the Watch and to the Forresters. Becoming a Ranger makes it easier to desert/go AWOL for a little without anyone noticing.

steakmancer
May 18, 2010

by Lowtax
Since Ethan dies Elissa is going to ignore his ruling in the first episode and send her brother to find Asher will eventually be called to the North anyways.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Dvlos
Aug 26, 2003

"I came here to argue with you about a freaking television show!"
Holy crap I just didn't quite expect Ethan to die l, stupid me for not expecting GoT style plot changes at any moment

Good stuff. Can't wait for February now :agesilaus:

  • Locked thread