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Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"


Oh wow, I never made that connection. One Piece Movie 6 has always been one of my favorites, because the style is so different and the material is so dark.

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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Some Numbers posted:

Oh wow, I never made that connection. One Piece Movie 6 has always been one of my favorites, because the style is so different and the material is so dark.

But yes, he's very good at what he does. Supposedly he in general wanted to focus in the real world of Digimon rather than the Digital World, which didn't interest him. Also I was incorrect, he was offered a chance to guest direct and he picked the episode where he could focus on the real world (so some sites say)

In short, he'd have been loving wonderful on the Vamdemon Arc, or on Tamers if Konaka wasn't already making it amazing.

But for him the Digimon were secondary to the kids, their connections to one another (hence the emailing in CWG and all the shots to kids all over the world on their computers, and the running subplot of Taichi and Sora's fight.) which I think is still a very good thing for Digimon.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis





He also did Summer Wars (read: Our War Game without the Digimon), and Wolf Children, a pair of pretty drat amazing films in their own right.

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4Res4zkJk#t=306s

Longer Cyber Sleuth's trailer showcasing the different aspects of the game.

From the little I can gather, the battle system is pretty similar (if not identical) to the one found on Dawn/Dusk.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4Res4zkJk#t=306s

Longer Cyber Sleuth's trailer showcasing the different aspects of the game.

From the little I can gather, the battle system is pretty similar (if not identical) to the one found on Dawn/Dusk.

Your Digimon are Displayed, this is all I need (I really am insanely anal about this poo poo.)

Now hoping for an eventual sequel to Digimon World 2, I want my roguelike Digimon game update!

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc4Res4zkJk#t=306s

Longer Cyber Sleuth's trailer showcasing the different aspects of the game.

From the little I can gather, the battle system is pretty similar (if not identical) to the one found on Dawn/Dusk.

Actually the battle system looks more like Digimon Adventure PSP. They mention things like Breaks, and there's a version of the combo system there. However the rest looks very DS Digimon Story, with scan data and a digi farm.

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich


So am I insane or the dude shown on the preview looks like a jogress between Alphamon and Omegamon?

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

So am I insane or the dude shown on the preview looks like a jogress between Alphamon and Omegamon?

I'd say that maybe its Alphamon in a slightly more stylised look than usual, but a DNA evolution wouldn't be so farfetched. After all, the characters are thematically linked anyway, and the game has made clear that Omni/Omegamon is an important NPC otherwise.

In general it looks to be similar to Tamers and Savers' second halves, if not combining the two whilst adding a dosage of SMT. A digital invasion of the real world driven by (whether fleeing from or wrongly thinking innocent humans to be responsible for) a non-standard digital entity that threatens to destroy everything.

For some reason we've also got thematically black and white macguffin girls, the former at least gets captured at some point and made to remind us that the artist has his fetishes.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Like Re: Digitize was a spiritual sequel to the original Digimon World, this is one to the DS Digimon Story games, to the point that one of the characters from the DS games is confirmed to appear (Dawn/Dusk's Sayo, the female playable character in the latter, rival in the former). The whole get percentage scans of Digimon to make them is identical to the DS games, as is the DigiFarm.

It looks super interesting, too bad I don't understand Japanese at all nor have a Vita, else I'd definitely get it only to be disappointed because it's a Digimon game, so the gameplay will end up being grindy and boring.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


My favorite Digimon game in the world is Digimon World 2003.

Holy poo poo I love Digimon World 2003. No other game has beaten it for me for best Digimon themed RPG.


Mind you a huge part of the reason for that is I played it as a kid and it had my all time favorite Digimon who I could have as a party

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Digimon World 3 is a weird game in that kid me loved it and actually beat it, and teenager and adult me finds it unbearably grindy, despite being good otherwise.

You know what game I liked before and I like now? Digital Card Battle. That game rocks, seriously, best Digimon game right there. It's the only Digimon game I can honestly call good without doubts. Not even Rumble Arena, which I also like, falls in that category.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



I loathe the Xros Wars manga.

From Nene losing even more agency than she did in the anime, to the really creepy fan service with Shademon Nene, to the really fanficcy stuff ("All the series are one canon!" "Everyone gets a super evolution!" Millenniumon is in this!"), to the blatant regurgitating of Tailmon and Wizarmon's story arc in a shallow, vapid manner, I just can't get into it. The only good parts of it for me are Bagramon's character and the backstory for Taiki.

And no, this isn't in comparison to the anime. The XW manga and anime both have their share of problems and I judge both equally.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



You must be the first person I ever see that disliked the Xros Wars manga.

I'll agree on the Nene fanservice being really creepy. Apart from that, characterizations are far stronger, "everyone gets an evolution" is hardly fanficcy and is actually what the anime should have done but didn't (in fact, not doing it was a regression, after Tamers and Savers did things correctly), the series are not one canon at all (there's connections, connections also seen in the Adventure PSP game, Hunters, the Ryo games and loving V-Tamer, far older than any of this). Nene loses agency, yes, but it's not like the anime treated her better, and the moments she does get are genuinely cool and deep, which admittedly also goes to her anime incarnation pre-becoming good.

Tailmon and Wizarmon's arc has hardly anything in common with what happens in Adventure, it's not reusing the Adventure arc at all. It does reuse the characters, and even hints that they are indeed the same as Adventure's, but everything that happens in the manga is entirely different, with Wizarmon getting a far different characterization and Tailmon managing to keep a personality the whole way through (something Adventure failed at and 02 ruined)

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Again I haven't seen the Japanese version, but Dub Gatomon kept a FAIRLY individual personality from the other Digimon in season 1. The biggest issue was we never had time to really focus on her after Myotismon stopped being a thing because holy poo poo everything in the world was happening. I'd say Angewomon VS Lady Devimon spoke a great deal about how different she was from the others.


Though yeah season 2 dropped the ball big time.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




I don't really see it as fanficcy honestly. I mean I sort of see where you're coming from, but I think the Xros manga is actually perfectly workable even if you hadn't seen a previous season. They do indeed make a lot of references, but the manga doesn't necessarily expect or rely on you getting them all. You could read it as a self-contained story if you didn't know otherwise, and I think that's the mark of a good anniversary style series.

I agree completely that Nene wasn't used well in the manga, but I'll also say that sadly I think she's still treated better there than in the anime. Nene in the anime was pretty useless and superfluous, it's sad to say but Nene in the manga was a much more direct driver of the plot even if she spent the second half somewhere between lackey and a hostage.

I sort of wish that we had a good anime of the Xros Wars manga, there's a lot of ideas and characters in there that I'd love more time to see fleshed out.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



Omnicrom posted:

I don't really see it as fanficcy honestly. I mean I sort of see where you're coming from, but I think the Xros manga is actually perfectly workable even if you hadn't seen a previous season. They do indeed make a lot of references, but the manga doesn't necessarily expect or rely on you getting them all. You could read it as a self-contained story if you didn't know otherwise, and I think that's the mark of a good anniversary style series.

I agree completely that Nene wasn't used well in the manga, but I'll also say that sadly I think she's still treated better there than in the anime. Nene in the anime was pretty useless and superfluous, it's sad to say but Nene in the manga was a much more direct driver of the plot even if she spent the second half somewhere between lackey and a hostage.

I sort of wish that we had a good anime of the Xros Wars manga, there's a lot of ideas and characters in there that I'd love more time to see fleshed out.

I would take "just sort of there and doesn't get to do much" over "body gets taken over by someone else entirely so she can get led around half naked". Both suck but one isn't actively offensive.

quote:

the series are not one canon at all (there's connections, connections also seen in the Adventure PSP game, Hunters, the Ryo games and loving V-Tamer, far older than any of this).

Those things all had the context of people coming from other dimensions.

The XW manga acts like they all happened in the same history. Which doesn't work at allllll.

Hitlersaurus Christ
Oct 14, 2005


TFRazorsaw posted:

I would take "just sort of there and doesn't get to do much" over "body gets taken over by someone else entirely so she can get led around half naked". Both suck but one isn't actively offensive.


Those things all had the context of people coming from other dimensions.

The XW manga acts like they all happened in the same history. Which doesn't work at allllll.

I think it's less "all stories are true" and more "something like these stories happened in this continuity." Except for Tailmon and Wizarmon. That was pretty explicitly the Adventure characters.
When hearing about the XW manga it sounded like a lovely fanfic but I honestly enjoyed it a lot when I finally read it.

I've been reading RE:Digitize Encode and it's pretty slow. It follows the story of the game pretty closely at first but starts to branch out after the first Memorial Stella. And... then it went on hiatus. I hear it's coming back though.
Is anyone translating it? If not, maybe I should go ahead and do that. So far I haven't had too much trouble with it.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



Anyway, in regards to the Super Evolutions, they're fanficcy because they just happen. They don't really accomplish anything other than giving us Shoutmon EX6, who is completely superfluous because they work Superior Mode in anyway. ShootingStarmon gets a bit by helping them finish Tactimon but that doesn't really justify the rest of it.

They also looked really bad until Bandai actually redesigned a bit. But in terms of pacing they're crammed in in a way that keeps any of them from getting focus. I like it when everyone gets a chance to evolve their partners, but it should happen when it's done for more reasons than "HEY WOULDN'T IT BE COOL IF"

Imagine how busy Tamers' final arc if they crammed in Ultimate forms for Guardromon, Antylamon and Dobermon. There's no place for them.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



TFRazorsaw posted:

Imagine how busy Tamers' final arc if they crammed in Ultimate forms for Guardromon, Antylamon and Dobermon. There's no place for them.

Imagine how much better Frontier would be if they had shown Double/Hyper forms for everyone not named Takuya and Kouji. Or how improved 02 would be with the other Jogresses getting Megas as well and some more spotlight, instead of being the Daisuke Show ft. Ken.

Your argument is really silly. Akari and Zenjirou are main characters, far higher in importance than Hirokazu, Shuichon and especially one episode wonder Alice. Kotone too, even if she's manga-only, and she's basically taking Nene's place. The Super Evolutions should've been given more screentime (pagetime?), but they were hardly superfluous. They helped show that the characters were important, and actually got some hits in against Tactimon. EX6 gave a cool fight to Tactimon too, who was far better in the manga than in the anime.

The problem is that the Xros Wars manga goes really loving fast. It really should've gotten some more fights to show off the Xrosses/Evolutions a bit more, even X5, DX and the manga-exclusive X6 get used a grand total of once, with DX accomplishing absolutely nothing. While the insane pace helps it not drag on as much as the anime did at times, it does make it not use what it has as much as it could. Even the ending feels really rushed, and X7SM being the final form was disappointing with EX6 there, at least it could've been an EX6 SM, but oh well. I'm pretty sure it got cancelled considering how abruptly it ended and yet it managed to be stylish to the end, and that I can accept.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




TFRazorsaw posted:

Anyway, in regards to the Super Evolutions, they're fanficcy because they just happen. They don't really accomplish anything other than giving us Shoutmon EX6, who is completely superfluous because they work Superior Mode in anyway. ShootingStarmon gets a bit by helping them finish Tactimon but that doesn't really justify the rest of it.

The thing is that Xros Wars Manga put a huge premium on making Evolution the end-point of the series. It's a major setting detail that Digimon can no longer evolve, that's why Digixrossing was invented in the first place, and that's why Omega Shoutmon and Ziek Greymon were such a big deal. The manga made it a big thing of it when Taiki and Kiriha brought evolution back for Shoutmon and Metal Greymon, so to me it makes perfect sense that the other kids would bring back evolution for the other core Digimon, especially in hindsight with the final battle happening with the entire army evolving. So no, I don't think all the other Super Evolutions were fanficcy, or that they came out of nowhere and just happened.

You are correct that the final form probably should have been Shoutmon EX7 however.

dragon_pamcake
Jan 1, 2012


Blaze Dragon posted:

Imagine how much better Frontier would be if they had shown Double/Hyper forms for everyone not named Takuya and Kouji. Or how improved 02 would be with the other Jogresses getting Megas as well and some more spotlight, instead of being the Daisuke Show ft. Ken.

A Shakkoumon mega would have been rad as hell.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


Having recently watched Our War Game and The Revenge of Diaboromon in Japanese, it's amazing just how built up Omnimon and his offshoots have become. Omnimon murders literal thousands of Megas at a time, and then gets rocked by a single Armageddomon in the real world. To the point where his loving arms drop off. Then Imperialdramon gets given Omnimon's power as a sword, becomes Swole Paladin Mode, and one shots him.

It's kind of hilarious. I guess you could say, oh, Omnimon wasn't powered by the will of children across the world the second time, but still. Just funny to me somehow.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



dragon_pamcake posted:

A Shakkoumon mega would have been rad as hell.

Materials outside the show itself give Shakkoumon's Mega as Vikemon, which is badass but also unfitting. And considering now it is apparently Gomamon's Mega (replacing Plesiomon), I doubt we'll ever see it, even moreso if tri does show the Megas for the rest of the children, something I absolutely expect.

Kurui Reiten posted:

Having recently watched Our War Game and The Revenge of Diaboromon in Japanese, it's amazing just how built up Omnimon and his offshoots have become. Omnimon murders literal thousands of Megas at a time, and then gets rocked by a single Armageddomon in the real world. To the point where his loving arms drop off. Then Imperialdramon gets given Omnimon's power as a sword, becomes Swole Paladin Mode, and one shots him.

It's kind of hilarious. I guess you could say, oh, Omnimon wasn't powered by the will of children across the world the second time, but still. Just funny to me somehow.

The Diablomon clones seemed to have no defense whatsoever and were very easily destroyed, and Armagemon's profile outright states that "Diablomon had the ability to make many copies of itself, but they were characterized by having lesser abilities than the original possessed". The real one was heavily slowed down by a bunch of emails being sent at once, letting Omegamon get an easy kill. Meanwhile Armagemon was able to fight at full power and is by itself a far stronger Digimon than Diablomon.

Revenge of Diablomon basically follows the same pattern as Our War Game, previously unbeatable Digimon lose -> new fusion -> easy as hell win. This time it's Imperialdramon PM taking over Omegamon. About the arms falling...well, nothing wrong with an Evangelion reference, right?

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Blaze Dragon posted:

Materials outside the show itself give Shakkoumon's Mega as Vikemon, which is badass but also unfitting. And considering now it is apparently Gomamon's Mega (replacing Plesiomon), I doubt we'll ever see it, even moreso if tri does show the Megas for the rest of the children, something I absolutely expect.

And then Digimon All-Star Rumble had Gomamon using Plesiomon as its Ultimate again.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


Blaze Dragon posted:

Materials outside the show itself give Shakkoumon's Mega as Vikemon, which is badass but also unfitting. And considering now it is apparently Gomamon's Mega (replacing Plesiomon), I doubt we'll ever see it, even moreso if tri does show the Megas for the rest of the children, something I absolutely expect.


The Diablomon clones seemed to have no defense whatsoever and were very easily destroyed, and Armagemon's profile outright states that "Diablomon had the ability to make many copies of itself, but they were characterized by having lesser abilities than the original possessed". The real one was heavily slowed down by a bunch of emails being sent at once, letting Omegamon get an easy kill. Meanwhile Armagemon was able to fight at full power and is by itself a far stronger Digimon than Diablomon.

Revenge of Diablomon basically follows the same pattern as Our War Game, previously unbeatable Digimon lose -> new fusion -> easy as hell win. This time it's Imperialdramon PM taking over Omegamon. About the arms falling...well, nothing wrong with an Evangelion reference, right?

Oh, the outside materials definitely explain the entire thing. I just hadn't seen the original version of Our War Game or any of Revenge of Diaboromon until recently. I found it funny how these two Digimon, whom I remember being top tier and secret in a bunch of games and such, had fight scenes that boiled down to "Destroys literally thousands of Megas, then gets chumped by a single one later" and "fight starts, single face stab, fight over".

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Kurui Reiten posted:

Oh, the outside materials definitely explain the entire thing. I just hadn't seen the original version of Our War Game or any of Revenge of Diaboromon until recently. I found it funny how these two Digimon, whom I remember being top tier and secret in a bunch of games and such, had fight scenes that boiled down to "Destroys literally thousands of Megas, then gets chumped by a single one later" and "fight starts, single face stab, fight over".

Welcome to jobbing. It's like I'm really watching a tokatsu series!

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Or any given Jump Movie, really.

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!





Eggs hatched, we got cast and Butter-fly and Brave Heart are in the series.

Love how goofy the digimons look

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich


That looks freaking amazing

KoB
Apr 30, 2009


Sora looks wierd.

Gatomon

Rand Brittain
Mar 24, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Somehow they made the Digimon fit this art style with very few changes. Not sure how!

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


That trolley has seen some poo poo, man.

Ccs
Feb 25, 2011




Character designer is Atsuya Uki, a manga artist who also taught himself animation and created Cencoroll. I think he'll be a really good fit for Digimon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC119ND1FTE

zimbomonkey
Jul 15, 2008

Tattoos? On MY black quarterback?


So I have a weird question that has bugged me every time I think about this franchise: Remember the Dark Ocean episode of Adventure 2? What the hell was going on with that? It seemed like it was starting a story arc but instead it never went anywhere and was never even brought up again to my knowledge. Hell, they never even revealed what the hell the Cthulhu-type monster silhouette at the end of the episode was (I would never have known if I didn't have a Drago/dagomon trading card that had him standing in the exact same pose). Was this a weird disconnect for the writers or was there a storyline they were planning on doing that never got off the ground?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




zimbomonkey posted:

So I have a weird question that has bugged me every time I think about this franchise: Remember the Dark Ocean episode of Adventure 2? What the hell was going on with that? It seemed like it was starting a story arc but instead it never went anywhere and was never even brought up again to my knowledge. Hell, they never even revealed what the hell the Cthulhu-type monster silhouette at the end of the episode was (I would never have known if I didn't have a Drago/dagomon trading card that had him standing in the exact same pose). Was this a weird disconnect for the writers or was there a storyline they were planning on doing that never got off the ground?

That episode was Chiaki Konaka's baby. The exact details are still kind of sketchy, but he penned that episode on the promise that it would eventually get a follow up episode or mini arc in the later season, but because 02 was a slapdash mess of Too Many Cooks and Toei Animation internal politics at their scummiest, the followup episodes never materialized. It burned Konaka so much (because he was a huge fan of the franchise already), that when a third season of the show was greenlit, Konaka went to the Toei brass and asked to be the showrunner for it so he could have sole editorial control over its story. And because you don't say no to Chiaki "I did Serial Experiments Lain, Giant Robo, no not that Giant Robo, Hellsing and The Big O, what have you chucklefucks done?" Konaka, that was how we subsequently got Tamers.

tl;dr: Post-Digital World Tamers your Dark Ocean follow up episode.

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 11, 2015

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Digimon Adventure 02 had about seventy writers. One of them wrote Cthulhu fiction.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Endorph posted:

Digimon Adventure 02 had about seventy writers. One of them wrote Cthulhu fiction.

This explains a lot.


ArmyOfMidgets posted:



Eggs hatched, we got cast and Butter-fly and Brave Heart are in the series.

Love how goofy the digimons look

everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013



nine-gear crow posted:

That episode was Chiaki Konaka's baby. The exact details are still kind of sketchy, but he penned that episode on the promise that it would eventually get a follow up episode or mini arc in the later season, but because 02 was a slapdash mess of Too Many Cooks and Toei Animation internal politics at their scummiest, the followup episodes never materialized. It burned Konaka so much (because he was a huge fan of the franchise already), that when a third season of the show was greenlit, Konaka went to the Toei brass and asked to be the showrunner for it so he could have sole editorial control over its story. And because you don't say no to Chiaki "I did Serial Experiments Lain, Giant Robo, Hellsing and The Big O, what have you chucklefucks done?" Konaka, that was how we subsequently got Tamers.

tl;dr: Post-Digital World Tamers your Dark Ocean follow up episode.

He did GR: Giant Robo, not Giant Robo: The Animation. GR: Giant Robo might be good but it's not the one that people think of.

Vandar
Sep 13, 2007

Isn't That Right, Chairman?







ArmyOfMidgets posted:



Eggs hatched, we got cast and Butter-fly and Brave Heart are in the series.

Love how goofy the digimons look

Not really a Gatomon fan but she looks super super adorable here.

The Digimon look a lot better in this style then I thought they would. Consider me hyped for this.

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everythingWasBees
Jan 9, 2013



They all have more or less the same face with very minor eyelash or eyebrow variation but it actually looks alright. Digimon are incredibly cute as well. I'm excited.

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