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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Some Numbers posted:

Oh wow.


Takato's got more of a backbone and actually does stuff, but I can see the comparison.

Hence "NGE done right"

Hell that's why War Growlmon's got the weird mouthplate he does. He's meant to evoke an EVA.

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Burkion posted:

Rei is Henry.
Wouldn't Juri be Rei?

I mean it's not that close of a comparison but nobody really is. Even the Rika/Asuka thing has the crucial difference of Rika actually having a positive relationship.

Montegoraon
Aug 22, 2013


Endorph posted:

Wouldn't Juri be Rei?

I mean it's not that close of a comparison but nobody really is. Even the Rika/Asuka thing has the crucial difference of Rika actually having a positive relationship.

Juri would be Toji, wouldn't she? Pilot/Tamer number 4 who gets smooshed by the plot?

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Literally The Worst posted:

G Gundam is not like any other Gundam show. It's about a dystopian future where the rich live on space colonies tricked out as the most ridiculous displays of their nation's cultural identity and every ten years dudes in giant robots beat the poo poo out of each other on Earth to determine what country is in charge for the next ten years. There is a boxing ring around the Earth. America's Gundam is a football player/surfer/boxer with big rear end magnum revolver style laser guuns. Holland's is a windmill. G Gundam is the light and it si the way.

lol that owns

Endorph posted:

I mean it's not that close of a comparison but nobody really is. Even the Rika/Asuka thing has the crucial difference of Rika actually having a positive relationship.

I think by NGE done right they mean NGE where the protags are allowed to have good things in their life

BENGHAZI 2
Oct 12, 2007

by Cyrano4747



It really really does. It also features a horse that pilots a gundam that is also a horse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITYtEFf0cBc

Rody One Half
Feb 18, 2011



Also 1990s racism, the best kind of racism

Watch G Gundam and be amazed

AlternateNu
May 5, 2005

"すやぁ~じゃなくて!"



forbidden lesbian posted:

I think by NGE done right they mean NGE where the protags are allowed to have good things in their life

I thought RaXephon was NGE done right.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado





When Literally The Worst mentioned the giant boxing ring around the Earth they forgot to mention that at one point the hero takes his giant robot and actually does a bounce off of it to fly around the world really fast. And wonderful early 90s Japanese racism like the Mexican Tequila Gundam piloted by an illegal immigrant or the time Neo USA busts out its superweapon, THE STATUE OF LIBERTY CANNON. And underneath it all it's actually a well written show with good character arcs and a likeable cast. It's both hilarious AND good.

AlternateNu posted:

I thought RaXephon was NGE done right.

My favorite one-liner about the two shows is the NGE is a psychological drama anime with Giant Robots, and RahXephon is a Giant Robo anime with psychological drama. I think both are actually pretty good at what they set out to be, but I think Rahxephon definitely the best post-Eva Eva.

Some Numbers posted:

Takato's got more of a backbone and actually does stuff, but I can see the comparison.

I think one of my favorite bit from the production notes site for Digimon Tamers is a bit where Konaka talks about repeatedly taking pains to say to the higher ups at Toei that Takato isn't supposed to be weak-willed or quiet but just really normal. Takato has a stable home life, a lot of friends, and is generally just a generic third grader who likes Digimon. Shinji meanwhile is acting completely normally considering he has a father who does everything to get Shinji to hate him, a mother who is roughly dead, lives and hangs around with a bunch of people at least as messed up as he is, and that's before fighting giant nightmares in another giant nightmare. Takato is a lot more well adjusted just by virtue of having a working support network of people who are there for him and don't passive-aggressively hate him.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




I love learning these behind the scenes and "what could have been" details about these various series. Though I think my favorite one was how Impmon was originally going to be Takato's partner for Tamers but it was personally vetoed by Konaka in favor of Guilmon because he wanted the central Digimon of the show to be an innocent tabula rasa as opposed to a creature with the kind of baggage Impmon brings with him just by his design and nature.

But goddamn if it hasn't left me wondering how a Takato/Impmon Tamers series would have played out ever since.

KoB
Apr 30, 2009


Omnicrom posted:

When Literally The Worst mentioned the giant boxing ring around the Earth they forgot to mention that at one point the hero takes his giant robot and actually does a bounce off of it to fly around the world really fast. And wonderful early 90s Japanese racism like the Mexican Tequila Gundam piloted by an illegal immigrant or the time Neo USA busts out its superweapon, THE STATUE OF LIBERTY CANNON. And underneath it all it's actually a well written show with good character arcs and a likeable cast. It's both hilarious AND good.

Domon summons his gundam and it bursts out of the Statue of Liberty.

SpazmasterX
Jul 13, 2006

Wrong about everything XIV related
~fartz~


KoB posted:

Domon summons his gundam and it bursts out of the Statue of Liberty.

The old statue of liberty in regular America. Not the atomic superweapon of Neo-America.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



nine-gear crow posted:

I love learning these behind the scenes and "what could have been" details about these various series. Though I think my favorite one was how Impmon was originally going to be Takato's partner for Tamers but it was personally vetoed by Konaka in favor of Guilmon because he wanted the central Digimon of the show to be an innocent tabula rasa as opposed to a creature with the kind of baggage Impmon brings with him just by his design and nature.

But goddamn if it hasn't left me wondering how a Takato/Impmon Tamers series would have played out ever since.

First time I hear that one. The only Tamers what-could-have-been thing I knew was that Impmon/Beelzebumon was meant to be the big bad of the series, before being changed to an antagonist that gets to redeem himself.

Honestly Digimon history would've probably changed a bit if Beelzebumon did get to be evil forever. We probably wouldn't have Baalmon/Beelzebumon in Xros Wars.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Blaze Dragon posted:

First time I hear that one. The only Tamers what-could-have-been thing I knew was that Impmon/Beelzebumon was meant to be the big bad of the series, before being changed to an antagonist that gets to redeem himself.

No, the production website merely says that early plans would place Impmon as a major antagonist for the first half of the series, what was changed appears to be Impmon later turning around and becoming a good guy.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Blaze Dragon posted:

First time I hear that one. The only Tamers what-could-have-been thing I knew was that Impmon/Beelzebumon was meant to be the big bad of the series, before being changed to an antagonist that gets to redeem himself.

"Chiaki J Konaka posted:

Impmon

In Guilmon's entry, I briefly touched on the fact that the main digimon(Rookie form) that WiZ (leaders of the Digimon project) suggested was, in fact, Impmon.

As soon as you see him, you can tell that he's a bratty, wise-cracking type, and it was a definitely a departure from the heroes from the previous seasons of Digimon.

However, as I wrote earlier, I wanted to begin the story with the main digimon as innocent and pure as possible. I voiced my dissent, and the next digimon to be nominated was Guilmon.

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Hello Fatty!




Fun Shoe

Blaze Dragon posted:

First time I hear that one. The only Tamers what-could-have-been thing I knew was that Impmon/Beelzebumon was meant to be the big bad of the series, before being changed to an antagonist that gets to redeem himself.

Honestly Digimon history would've probably changed a bit if Beelzebumon did get to be evil forever. We probably wouldn't have Baalmon/Beelzebumon in Xros Wars.

I'm actually really happy that the writers went in this direction since the D-reaper is one of my favorite anime villains.

The_Frag_Man
Mar 26, 2005



Hi, if I wanted to give this series of shows a try should I start with Digimon Tamers? That seems to be the best one from what people are saying.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


The_Frag_Man posted:

Hi, if I wanted to give this series of shows a try should I start with Digimon Tamers? That seems to be the best one from what people are saying.

Either season 1 or season 3 would be a good start. Both were made (though the former did get a sequel) to be standalone so you need no information going in. They are both great seasons with a good story progression, well developed characters, and some fun action. While I watched the dub growing up, it might be best to track down the original Japanese with subs as the dub is kind of cringe worthy in retrospec. Season 5 is another really good season, just saying, but is very shonen-like while the rest of the series isn't as much.

Quick warning, all the seasons -- at least the ones I watched (1-5) --, are 52 episodes long. I just felt you should know.

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!

The subs of 1-3 are available on Netflix. I also think the dub is pretty alright, and they don't change all that much. I don't feel like I got a better experience out of watching the subs than I would've with the dub.

However, don't watch the dub if you are adverse to puns and some dated jokes.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



The dub of Tamers has Steve Blum being awesome without being typecast as Spike.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


dis astranagant posted:

The dub of Tamers has Steve Blum being awesome without being typecast as Spike.

Steve Blum has done so, so many roles that this is not the only time that happened. That said, the agent guy was a really cool character.


mikeycp posted:

However, don't watch the dub if you are adverse to puns and some dated jokes.

I'm the type who really, really hates pun hence the "cringe worthy" comment. I suppose mileage will vary on that front.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



Covok posted:

Steve Blum has done so, so many roles that this is not the only time that happened. That said, the agent guy was a really cool character.


I'm the type who really, really hates pun hence the "cringe worthy" comment. I suppose mileage will vary on that front.

I was talking about Guilmon.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


dis astranagant posted:

I was talking about Guilmon.

Wait a minute, that was Steve Blum?

Now, I see what you mean by "not typecasted."

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3hsdevGgwU

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!

People who can't find it within themselves to enjoy the first half (the not-02 parts) of The Digimon Movie are not people that can be trusted. Likewise for people who say the second half is anything but terrible.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.



Well, that was enlightening. I must say that I did not expect him to just switch into that voice out of nowhere.

dis astranagant
Dec 14, 2006



Dude's got chops but hardly anyone wants him to use them

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Steve Blum was pulling quadruple duty on Tamers. He was Guilmon, Kenta, Yamaki, and, if not the head writer for the dub, then one of its senior writers at least.

K. Flaps
Dec 7, 2012

by Athanatos


The American dub of digimon season 1 is insanely bad because they changed the opening from Butter-fly to the retarded bullshit digirap.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


The dub of Tamers is pretty good. They only add lame puns where they can get away with it - more comedic scenes, scenes of the characters interacting, whatever. There's no random puns thrown out during dramatic moments like there were in adventure/adventure 02.

vivisecting
Dec 13, 2012

it's been 15 years but im still upset that yamato became an astronaut and yet absolutely no one joined the federation since thats actually more plausible than that ending

Goddamnit, every you guys post a bunch of poo poo in here, I think we got new information about Tri. Which, like, where is it?? I will accept anything at this point. Maybe I shouldn't trust Toei anymore. This is turning out to be just like Crystal. Actually, with Crystal at least we were told it was being delayed 5 times.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Mot to mention the "Buy all our playsets and toys!" nonsense going around.

At this point I've given up on Tri and I'm just going to enjoy the BR Rips that are floating about.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


The_Frag_Man posted:

Hi, if I wanted to give this series of shows a try should I start with Digimon Tamers? That seems to be the best one from what people are saying.

Sub VS Dub is one thing I can't comment on. I prefer the voices of the dub to the sub, but for season 1 at least, I can acknowledge where the punnery could get really forced-the worst of it being Apocalymon. Though I still think it has its place.

Season 3 Sub VS Dub, for me, is no contest. Dub wins. I really dislike the Royal We thing Dukemon does, VS Gallantmon just being awesome, all of the voices are fantastic, the jokes are only where they are needed- it's just a near perfect dub.


As far as Season 1 and 3 compared to one another quality wise...

Season 1 had the animation budget of a Hanna Barbara cartoon, only scaled up JUST enough so none of the voice actors starved. It was a 13 episode anime stretched to 50+ with a budget for only the former.

What I'm trying to say is, Sailor Moon has better animation and more fluid action than Digimon season 1. Yet, despite that, Season 1 is a very smart, character driven, and well written series. It almost never flounders or flops around too badly, and just about every episode is important for character development or plot advancement. And a huge thing, all of the villains are distinct and memorable- including the sidekick villains that ALL OF THEM HAVE.

Devimon has Ogremon, Myotismon has an entire army of sidekick villains, two big ones being Phantomon (who has an amazing Boris Karloff voice in the dub) and Demidevimon, Etemon it turns out is the sidekick to the far more competent and dangerous Datamon, Metal Seadramon has the scorpion, Puppetmon has Cherrymon, Machinedramon has an entire goddamn army and WaruMozemon, and Piedmon has Lady Devimon.

The villains are *AMAZING* in season 1. None of them are very well nuanced or deep, but they're all pretty goddamn awesome. They've got personality and presence and are just a joy to see.

Season 3 actually has a goddamn animation team working on it and it has some brilliant fights. The characters a great, and the plot is nicely skewed in a pretty original way.

The only sin season 3 has is that, honestly, the villains aren't all that much fun. The D-Reaper is a great threat, but outside of one of its agents, it has zero personality, so for the most part the biggest enemy of season 3 is The Blob. The other villains are largely forgettable too, with one exception.

Brony Hunter
Dec 27, 2012

Motherfucking Mannis

They'll bend the knee or I'll destroy them

Apocalymon and his crappy standup routine was the best part of the dub and I will fight anyone who disagrees

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Burkion posted:

It was a 13 episode anime stretched to 50+ with a budget for only the former.

I keep hearing this and hearing people refute it, so I actually jumped on Google. I found a reference to the actual director's Twitter (and verified that) where someone asked how many episodes was in the original plan. It was 50, not 13.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Some Numbers posted:

I keep hearing this and hearing people refute it, so I actually jumped on Google. I found a reference to the actual director's Twitter (and verified that) where someone asked how many episodes was in the original plan. It was 50, not 13.

I was mostly making a joke about how bottom of the barrel the budget was for this show.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


The_Frag_Man posted:

Hi, if I wanted to give this series of shows a try should I start with Digimon Tamers? That seems to be the best one from what people are saying.

I'm biased as gently caress but Digimon Series 3 is still something I can enjoy as an adult

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Brony Hunter posted:

Apocalymon and his crappy standup routine was the best part of the dub and I will fight anyone who disagrees

Is that standup? I thought it was insane rambling to the point where he's only coherent enough to understand how stupid the bullshit he's spouting is "HA HA HA HA! Wait a minute, why am I laughing? I'm supposed to be depressed!"

It's the safe for TV version of Gigas going "NESS NESS NESS NESS NESS NESS" and given that the Japanese version was him cutting himself (That was what Mimi tried to stop looking at FYI) and cursing being, well, The Living Hell, for all the enemies they had killed up to that point, well, yeah. Insanity was a better way out of it.

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Apr 6, 2015

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Burkion posted:

I was mostly making a joke about how bottom of the barrel the budget was for this show.

Well, uh, that's...I mean...

Classy Hydra
Oct 30, 2011

You did wrong, Jack,
rest your soul.

forbidden lesbian posted:

I'm biased as gently caress but Digimon Series 3 is still something I can enjoy as an adult

This is basically it.

Adventure was fun in the way most kid shows are, but the actual good writing is stretched thin and far between. It's difficult to enjoy without the context of having seen it when you were like 8. Especially with the dub, where the sound and music mixing was hosed the hell up even before the weird and seemingly arbitrary changes in the script.

Tamers is just legitimately good. Solid writing, characterization, etc., the difference is night and day compared to basically any other season. That said, I feel it did have some pacing problems towards the end, but that's a minor nitpick at best.

As a third option, Savers has basically more in common with dumb battle shonen than it does with any other digimon season. It's pretty entertaining on its own merits, and a little easier to drop into without pior knowledge of the franchise than the other two.

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Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


The biggest problem with season 3 for me is simply the villains sucked.

If it could have had season 1 level villains as far as personalities and such went, it would have been perfect. The final stretch of the show is just them fighting The Blob and ScaryJeri and that's it. Otherwise it's a lot of people sitting around talking.

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