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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Burkion posted:

The biggest problem with season 3 for me is simply the villains sucked.

If it could have had season 1 level villains as far as personalities and such went, it would have been perfect. The final stretch of the show is just them fighting The Blob and ScaryJeri and that's it. Otherwise it's a lot of people sitting around talking.

I think the D-Reaper was a great villain. It was an automated deletion program that accidentally evolved and gained intelligence, but not sentience, making it both a better deletion program and causing it to realize there was more stuff out there that it could delete. It was basically the Borg; it couldn't be reasoned with, bargained with, threatened, or hid from because it was that relentless. It didn't need to be a scenery chewing, joke cracking villain like Piedmon or an ice cold sociopath like Myotismon, the thing that made the D-Reaper a great villain was just that it was the Michael Meyers or Jason Vorhees of Digimon villains: always coming to get you and impervious to your attempts to stop and the main characters had to resort to literally cheating to finally kill it.

I rewatched Tamers last year and the thing that really stood out to me was how well handled the adult characters were. I really appreciated that the adults were given not just a POV in the series, but that that POV was treated as an equally valid and informed one as the kids' POV was in the story.

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MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!



Henry's dad being part of a group of people that programmed the Digimon was always one of my favorite things. I think those were the first adults that actually mattered in a children's anime starring children that I had seen, and that FBI or whatever dude trusting Takato after being utterly defeated was just really cool.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Classy Hydra posted:

This is basically it.

Adventure was fun in the way most kid shows are, but the actual good writing is stretched thin and far between. It's difficult to enjoy without the context of having seen it when you were like 8. Especially with the dub, where the sound and music mixing was hosed the hell up even before the weird and seemingly arbitrary changes in the script.

Tamers is just legitimately good. Solid writing, characterization, etc., the difference is night and day compared to basically any other season. That said, I feel it did have some pacing problems towards the end, but that's a minor nitpick at best.

As a third option, Savers has basically more in common with dumb battle shonen than it does with any other digimon season. It's pretty entertaining on its own merits, and a little easier to drop into without pior knowledge of the franchise than the other two.
Adventure's writing is in peaks and valleys IMHO, for every dumb kid thing you usually had some really resonant thing with Izzy's adoption issues (the fact that scene was not played for laughs in the Saban Dub except as a point to say "Ok, the serious stuff is over" will always put Saban in front of 4kids to me) Sora's hangups about her mother to that bit in the Dark Masters arc where Tai just breaks the hell down (again, another scene I thought Saban got right) and, hell, even the softer stuff was just fun rather than inherently egregious.

Tamers is that with master strokes and a lot less inherent silliness which is fine and has made that show pretty much the great thing we know it for.

Savers is G Gundam with Digimon minus Imagawa

ConanThe3rd fucked around with this message at 07:40 on Apr 8, 2015

sharrrk
Feb 13, 2012

It's time to party!


the puns and dad jokes are what make digimon so good

Demicol
Nov 8, 2009



Does nobody like Digimon Frontier

Admoon
Oct 29, 2009



Demicol posted:

Does nobody like Digimon Frontier

I loved Frontier. Also had the best english OP in my opinion.

ConanThe3rd
Mar 27, 2009


Wild Force was the better Sentai Series made by saban that year and, generally speaking, that was all over the darn shop and not viewed as highly as Time Force.

Classy Hydra
Oct 30, 2011

You did wrong, Jack,
rest your soul.

Demicol posted:

Does nobody like Digimon Frontier

No.

Admoon posted:

I loved Frontier. Also had the best english OP in my opinion.

I don't believe you.

(Though yes, that dub opening was boss).

ConanThe3rd posted:

Adventure's writing is in peaks and valleys IMHO, for every dumb kid thing you usually had some really resonant thing with Izzy's adoption issues (the fact that scene was not played for laughs in the Saban Dub except as a point to say "Ok, the serious stuff is over" will always put Saban in front of 4kids to me) Sora's hangups about her mother to that bit in the Dark Masters arc where Tai just breaks the hell down (again, another scene I thought Saban got right) and, hell, even the softer stuff was just fun rather than inherently egregious.

Tamers is that with master strokes and a lot less inherent silliness which is fine and has made that show pretty much the great thing we know it for.

Savers is G Gundam with Digimon minus Imagawa

Adventures hit its stride around when vampire dude came into the picture and had some pretty decent character moments around it. Personally speaking though, I thought Adventure handled its overarching plot pretty clumsily and a lot of the character stuff wasn't melded well with everything else; Tamers handled that a lot more deftly.

Giant robot shows aren't my forte, is G Gundam known for being kinda dumb, but exciting to watch and relatively well put together?

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!

Frontier is decent. The designs and concept are pretty cool, they just flubbed the landing IMO.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




I like the idea of Frontier more than the overall execution of it. After Seraphimon dies things just go all sorts of of the rails. Well, technically after Cherubimon dies it goes off the rails, but the post-Seraphimon, pre-Cherubimon/Ophanimon stuff lays the ground work for it to all go spectacularly wrong.

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008



So whats the deal with this show. When is it actually premiering.

GimmickMan
Dec 27, 2011



Classy Hydra posted:

Adventures hit its stride around when vampire dude came into the picture and had some pretty decent character moments around it. Personally speaking though, I thought Adventure handled its overarching plot pretty clumsily and a lot of the character stuff wasn't melded well with everything else; Tamers handled that a lot more deftly.

Giant robot shows aren't my forte, is G Gundam known for being kinda dumb, but exciting to watch and relatively well put together?

G Gundam is what happens when producers want a tournament arc that lasts 50 episodes and is an unapologetic toy commercial but the director is a guy who pretends to give a gently caress about what the producers want but really doesn't. It is like if Adventure's overarching plot in between rivals of the week and character centric episodes was planned all the way through but with more cheesy kung fu.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



ConanThe3rd posted:

Savers is G Gundam with Digimon minus Imagawa

I'd kill to have Imagawa make a Digimon series. Bring on that hot-blooded awesomeness, I'm ready.

Demicol posted:

Does nobody like Digimon Frontier

Digimon Frontier was awful.

The REAL Goobusters posted:

So whats the deal with this show. When is it actually premiering.

It's what we all wish we knew. It's not April, that's for sure, Wikipedia now lists "Spring 2015".

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Blaze Dragon posted:

It's what we all wish we knew. It's not April, that's for sure, Wikipedia now lists "Spring 2015".

I've heard June, but I haven't seen any official evidence to confirm that. Alls I know is I'm starting to worry about Tri again if its getting pushed back from its previously announced airdate. Toei's been in the shitter with its shows lately, so I have relatively little real faith in Tri actually working, despite the pedigree it has behind it. Because everything I've read about Toei's other ambitious late-90's flagship series reboot, Sailor Moon Crystal, indicates it flounders between hot garbage and barely watchable for tertiary reasons, depending on the episode.

Oxygen Deficiency
May 19, 2008





Demicol posted:

Does nobody like Digimon Frontier

I can just barely remember Frontiers having watched it years ago, but is that the season with no partners?

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Oxygen Deficiency posted:

I can just barely remember Frontiers having watched it years ago, but is that the season with no partners?

Yes, I like Frontier. I like frontier right up until the end of Cherubimon, and then it loses the loving plot.

Also I wish they had done more Hybrid souls, considering they all exist in the card game

But then again for every good design




You have

Red Bones
Aug 9, 2012

"I think he's a bad enough person to stay ghost through his sheer love of child-killing."



For every good design you have another good design?

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Burkion posted:

The biggest problem with season 3 for me is simply the villains sucked.

If it could have had season 1 level villains as far as personalities and such went, it would have been perfect. The final stretch of the show is just them fighting The Blob and ScaryJeri and that's it. Otherwise it's a lot of people sitting around talking.

The D-Reaper is fundamentally different from the Season 1 villains, giving it a personality would have defeated the entire purpose of it's existence.

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


forbidden lesbian posted:

The D-Reaper is fundamentally different from the Season 1 villains, giving it a personality would have defeated the entire purpose of it's existence.

See I don't disagree with that at all- I'm certainly not saying make certain aspects of it a clown for no good goddamn reason or whatever.

But you're partly wrong. The D-Reaper DOES have a personality. Or rather, ScaryJeri does.

What the D-Reaper really needed in my opinion was more Agents like her. Agents that could go beyond the borders of the blob itself and have twisted quirks like that. One really cool source for Agents that occurs to me?

The Kids parents. Specifically the parents who weren't involved defeating the D-Reaper.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

To mirror some of the above statements, I also hold the view that Frontier started out good (indeed, it has my favourite opening episode of the franchise, though the duo-centrism did get grating in the stuff immediately thereafter), but then its last stretch just gets more and more frustrating (which was arguably somewhat the point, but needed a way better execution) you're just glad its finally done, not that it had a satisfying ending.

What's weird is that the one episode where they go to the digimon nursery (can't remember the exact name) and manage to actually get the power of the previous villains to briefly shine through feels like the kind of thing that last stretch might have benefited more from. Its the only episode that really sticks out to me, because whilst its still a loss, the heroes still manage something, and the idea of maybe being able to bring back the villains as good guys feels like it was wasted potential after that.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.


Red Bones posted:

For every good design you have another good design?

you have a Godly design that doesn't really work as a protagonist in a serious battle

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

I enjoyed the first two thirds of Frontier, but I recognize that it loses its rails right after the Sefirotmon arc. That arc started the sidelining of the extra kids and the over spotlighting of Takuya and Kouji that became so bad later.

All six kids getting Hybrids would have helped, but also Kouichi joining as late as he did meant he was stronger than the Hybrids, which made his sidelining even more frustrating.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Burkion posted:

See I don't disagree with that at all- I'm certainly not saying make certain aspects of it a clown for no good goddamn reason or whatever.

But you're partly wrong. The D-Reaper DOES have a personality. Or rather, ScaryJeri does.

What the D-Reaper really needed in my opinion was more Agents like her. Agents that could go beyond the borders of the blob itself and have twisted quirks like that. One really cool source for Agents that occurs to me?

The Kids parents. Specifically the parents who weren't involved defeating the D-Reaper.

oh okay, that's fair.

readingatwork
Jan 8, 2009

Hello Fatty!




Fun Shoe

nine-gear crow posted:

I think the D-Reaper was a great villain. It was an automated deletion program that accidentally evolved and gained intelligence, but not sentience, making it both a better deletion program and causing it to realize there was more stuff out there that it could delete. It was basically the Borg; it couldn't be reasoned with, bargained with, threatened, or hid from because it was that relentless. It didn't need to be a scenery chewing, joke cracking villain like Piedmon or an ice cold sociopath like Myotismon, the thing that made the D-Reaper a great villain was just that it was the Michael Meyers or Jason Vorhees of Digimon villains: always coming to get you and impervious to your attempts to stop and the main characters had to resort to literally cheating to finally kill it.

I think Cthulhu is a better comparison. Something truly terrifying hiding in the shadows that you're only ever able to see bits and pieces of.

Re: Frontier: it was an interesting idea but poorly executed. Also the main character could have been completely written out with minimal effort which is a huge pet peeve of mine.

K. Flaps
Dec 7, 2012

by Athanatos


I was 13 when digimon frontier aired and the only good part was the squid girl digimon I had a crush on.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



readingatwork posted:

I think Cthulhu is a better comparison. Something truly terrifying hiding in the shadows that you're only ever able to see bits and pieces of.

Re: Frontier: it was an interesting idea but poorly executed. Also the main character could have been completely written out with minimal effort which is a huge pet peeve of mine.

Uhh, what? Did you even watch Frontier? Write off Takuya and Kouji and you don't have a series anymore. You can write off the other four and have no changes whatsoever, the series is horribly main/rival-focused, far more than any Digimon series before, to the point of making everyone else powerless to feed them.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Blaze Dragon posted:

Uhh, what? Did you even watch Frontier? Write off Takuya and Kouji and you don't have a series anymore. You can write off the other four and have no changes whatsoever, the series is horribly main/rival-focused, far more than any Digimon series before, to the point of making everyone else powerless to feed them.

Literally!

That was the worst idea in the entire season.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Yeah, Takuya and Kouji getting the Hybrids was bad enough, but completely depowering the rest of the team to make Takuya and Kouji not strong enough to face the Royal Knights was terrible.

Edward IV
Jan 15, 2006



Covok posted:

Literally!

That was the worst idea in the entire season.

Not only that, in one fight they had the depowered side characters provide support with, get this, a catapult. Unless they were chucking nukes or something, they would have been better off on the side lines providing commentary on the fight.

I only saw that fight in the previous episode recap but of course they had their poo poo kicked in at the start of the episode.

Thanks to UPN's inconsistent scheduling and release of new episodes, I ended up missing much of season between the defeat of evil bunny god and shortly before the reveal of the end boss. Of course with that ending, I couldn't be bothered to wait for those episodes to be re-aired. Thanks to I could but again why bother.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Edward IV posted:

Not only that, in one fight they had the depowered side characters provide support with, get this, a catapult. Unless they were chucking nukes or something, they would have been better off on the side lines providing commentary on the fight.

I only saw that fight in the previous episode recap but of course they had their poo poo kicked in at the start of the episode.

Thanks to UPN's inconsistent scheduling and release of new episodes, I ended up missing much of season between the defeat of evil bunny god and shortly before the reveal of the end boss. Of course with that ending, I couldn't be bothered to wait for those episodes to be re-aired. Thanks to I could but again why bother.

You're not missing much. They all follow the same format: Royal Knights attack a place from an earlier part of the season, whats-their-faces go mega while everyone else twiddles with their thumbs, the villains win yet don't kill the heroes and run off to the next place.

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




The Royal Knights arc of Frontier is right down there with Black WarGreymon's arc in 02 as the absolute nadir of Digimon. I really think Frontier was good for about 38 episodes, and there's some stuff in the last few I liked, but the problem is that there isn't enough good stuff in that final arc. Frontier not only failed to stick the landing, it absolutely crashed and burned.

zimbomonkey
Jul 15, 2008

Tattoos? On MY black quarterback?


...i liked blackwargreymon...

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Omnicrom posted:

The Royal Knights arc of Frontier is right down there with Black WarGreymon's arc in 02 as the absolute nadir of Digimon. I really think Frontier was good for about 38 episodes, and there's some stuff in the last few I liked, but the problem is that there isn't enough good stuff in that final arc. Frontier not only failed to stick the landing, it absolutely crashed and burned.

God, I'd love to see someone do a "why did this thing fail so hard" episode by episode trip report on Frontier similar to the one PoptartsNinja did for Gundam AGE.

That would just be hilarious.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

nine-gear crow posted:

God, I'd love to see someone do a "why did this thing fail so hard" episode by episode trip report on Frontier similar to the one PoptartsNinja did for Gundam AGE.

That would just be hilarious.
I'm almost tempted to do that, but I've only watched the series in Japanese.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Some Numbers posted:

I'm almost tempted to do that, but I've only watched the series in Japanese.

I don't see how only seeing the Japanese version is stopping you from doing that.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

Some Numbers posted:

Yeah, Takuya and Kouji getting the Hybrids was bad enough, but completely depowering the rest of the team to make Takuya and Kouji not strong enough to face the Royal Knights was terrible.

This is one of the reasons why I bring up the bit when the previous villains get revived in kind of a spirit form, and that (briefly) manages to hold the Royal Knights off.

That, I feel, could have made for an interesting basis in getting 'strong enough' to face the Royal Knights. Not putting all their eggs in two baskets (seriously, why even do that if it won't matter much for the rest of the series), but trying to get an actually complete team together and fully prepared for the fight. Its a lot of missed potential.

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Covok posted:

I don't see how only seeing the Japanese version is stopping you from doing that.

I don't know how much of the series was changed in translation and I expect most people are more familiar with the dub.

Covok
May 27, 2013

Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.


Some Numbers posted:

I don't know how much of the series was changed in translation and I expect most people are more familiar with the dub.

But wouldn't you just be talking about how the series itself messed up, not how the dub screwed up?

Some Numbers
Sep 28, 2006

"LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Covok posted:

But wouldn't you just be talking about how the series itself messed up, not how the dub screwed up?

Are you trying to convince me to rewatch Frontier?

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nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Yeah. Script and Story are two different things. It's like weather and climate. The exact details of what the characters say episode per episode don't really matter when they still get their asses kicked and accomplish nothing for fifteen straight episodes. Those things transcend language.

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